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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.03.24 16:32:00 -
[31]
Mate we are talking about 'warp'.
Maybe I am overlooking something but why does that kick pirating in the nuts? You could never catch anyone in warp anyway...
AFAIK you gank Indy's before they get to warp (or after they come out of it) so how would this change change anything?
By all means correct me if I am wrong!
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Laranesh Tusari
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Posted - 2004.03.24 16:36:00 -
[32]
Quote: the fact that indies warp faster than battleships kills (or kicks it in the nuts REALY REALY hard) pirating...
makes up for indies being so ******* slow in normal space - at least a battleship can still mount MWD's that are actually worth something. Also, in a battleship you can obliterate an indie from a 100k out.
Empires exist on commerce, not war - the faster the commerce flows, the richer the empire.
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Negotiator
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Posted - 2004.03.24 16:43:00 -
[33]
Hardin for example you are following an indy that has instajump BMs and trying to catch it on the other side of the gate when you both jump. Or if an indy manages to warp out and go to a planet while you follow and try to kill it.
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Orestes
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Posted - 2004.03.24 16:49:00 -
[34]
Perhaps bships are for the camping, and frigates for the chasing?
It doesn't enter warp faster, the speed it warps with, is faster
Join the IC! |
Estios
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Posted - 2004.03.24 16:54:00 -
[35]
An industrial class ship has a higher warp speed than a 100million isk Battle class ship ??
What are you people smoking on your lunch breaks ? coz it beats the s**t out of the stuff I have.
FFS dont just put in such drastic changes without telling people. So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
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Negotiator
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Posted - 2004.03.24 16:58:00 -
[36]
well its not that i mind the changes really, im just saying its gonna get more challenging. flying interceptors is good and dandy until a dominix comes along and craps 10 wasps out and u die instantly.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.03.24 17:30:00 -
[37]
Not instantly - you'd have about 2 seconds to go "Oh shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!"
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Muspell
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Posted - 2004.03.24 17:41:00 -
[38]
Quote:
Make the option available to warp in from 5 km distance to players who''re: 1. Not at war; 2. Not in 0.4 or lower (or 0.0, depending on the situation);
That way, the "normal" players don''t have to be exploited by eve in such a cheap way, while the pvp players are avoiding it all together with insta bm''s.
damn carebears.. you have to earn your money, not get everything as easy as hell and up to a BS after two weeks of playing.
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Iteration X
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Posted - 2004.03.24 17:56:00 -
[39]
Quote: Perhaps bships are for the camping, and frigates for the chasing?
there you go being all sensible again. cease and desist immediately!
Which PA character are you? |
Lallante
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Posted - 2004.03.24 17:56:00 -
[40]
Annoying change! Better would be: Interceptors 4Au/sec Indys 2au/sec ALL else: 3au/sec
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - ShinRa
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Silv
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Posted - 2004.03.24 18:13:00 -
[41]
If you're trying to stop people from entering a gate, thats your problem.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.03.24 18:20:00 -
[42]
Quote: Better would be: Interceptors 4Au/sec Indys 2au/sec ALL else: 3au/sec
What I think would be better still is some mix of top warp speeds and max warp distances in one go. Yes, I know ships have differing max warp distances now but it is close to meaningless as most warps are done in one go in most ships. Make it so there are real differences in max warp distance and not tied to cap at all (just a ship stat).
For Example: Frigates -- Warp Speed 6 AU/s, Max Warp Distance 30 AU, Time to jump to Warp 5 seconds Cruisers -- Warp Speed 4.5 AU/s, Max Warp Distance 50 AU, Time to jump to Warp 10 seconds Battleships -- Warp Speed 3 AU/s, Max Warp Distance 70 AU, Time to jump to Warp 15 seconds Industrials -- Warp Speed 2 AU/s, Max Warp Distance 100 AU, Time to jump to Warp 20 seconds Shuttles -- Warp Speed 8 AU/s, Max Warp Distance 20 AU, Time to jump to Warp 2 seconds
Note: Those are *just* examples and open to debate. The point more is you could get all sorts of interesting things such as skills that improve any of the above stats or mods that buff one stat while nerfing another. Maybe an indy would want a go-to warp time of 10 seconds but to do so would require mods that nerf max warp distance drastically (say down to 35 AU in one go) and/or cream cargo capacity. This way you would get a greater dance between players as they fit their ships for different purposes to kill or avoid each other. A hauler this way might be able to make itself much harder to be caught but it will be much less useful as a hauler and painful as hell to fly having to drop in and out of warp over and over again.
I know the devil is in the details of all that to get the balance right but it really changes thinking about what the right ship is for a given job not to mention the greater latitude in fitting that ship.
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Irot Noot
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Posted - 2004.03.24 18:46:00 -
[43]
Actually Indies being able to warp faster than Battleships makes perfect sence. Ive seen Semi's tooling down the highway at better than 90 mph. AFAIK there arent any military combat vehicles similar to a BS that would be capable of going anywhere near those speeds.
An indy in warp is no different IMO than a Semi on a highway. Slower to get up to speed, slower to stop, but every bit as capable as most other vehicles of moving right along swiftly. -----
Sir Irot Noot of the clan McNoot
Fear the reaper
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.03.24 18:52:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Mon Palae on 24/03/2004 18:54:27
Quote: Actually Indies being able to warp faster than Battleships makes perfect sence. Ive seen Semi's tooling down the highway at better than 90 mph. AFAIK there arent any military combat vehicles similar to a BS that would be capable of going anywhere near those speeds.
An indy in warp is no different IMO than a Semi on a highway. Slower to get up to speed, slower to stop, but every bit as capable as most other vehicles of moving right along swiftly.
Ships in EVE are, well, ships. More akin to ocean going vessles than road bound vehicles. Turns out that ocean-going battleships are actually quite fast with only aircraft carriers beating them out for top speed (among non-planing vessles). Cargo ships (i.e. indies) are your standard cargo carrying vessle and generally slower, even much slower, than naval ships.
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Ishkur
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Posted - 2004.03.24 19:55:00 -
[45]
That's because a big giant ship would have appropriate-sized engines and such things to make you go faster.
I have this HUGE ship, and as far as I can tell, there's nothing in it. Is my Megathron hollow or something?
You'd think they'd drop some decent engines in these ships. A frigate's engine (motorbike) should be smaller than a cruiser's (sportscar) smaller than an industrial (semi truck) smaller than a Battleship (Hummer lol).
Oh well.
I like the change
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Orestes
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Posted - 2004.03.24 20:06:00 -
[46]
Quote:
Quote: Perhaps bships are for the camping, and frigates for the chasing?
there you go being all sensible again. cease and desist immediately!
Sorry. I will try to cut down on sense. 'S hard, you know
Join the IC! |
K'thang
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Posted - 2004.03.25 10:09:00 -
[47]
Quote: Edited by: Mon Palae on 24/03/2004 18:54:27
Quote: Actually Indies being able to warp faster than Battleships makes perfect sence. Ive seen Semi's tooling down the highway at better than 90 mph. AFAIK there arent any military combat vehicles similar to a BS that would be capable of going anywhere near those speeds.
An indy in warp is no different IMO than a Semi on a highway. Slower to get up to speed, slower to stop, but every bit as capable as most other vehicles of moving right along swiftly.
Ships in EVE are, well, ships. More akin to ocean going vessles than road bound vehicles. Turns out that ocean-going battleships are actually quite fast with only aircraft carriers beating them out for top speed (among non-planing vessles). Cargo ships (i.e. indies) are your standard cargo carrying vessle and generally slower, even much slower, than naval ships.
You forget that we are in space and there are a lot less friction in space than in the ocean so a large bulky freighter wouldn't suffer much speedloss when it comes to that. I would have to agree with the previous poster comparing Indys to a Semi.
K.
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Kunming
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Posted - 2004.03.25 10:41:00 -
[48]
The warp speed is now calculated with mass/volume. That means a full indy is slower than an empty one!
Or at least that is what I understood from the "EVE Insider" story...
Intercepting since BETA |
hatchette
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Posted - 2004.03.25 11:03:00 -
[49]
Quote:
Ships in EVE are, well, ships. More akin to ocean going vessles than road bound vehicles. Turns out that ocean-going battleships are actually quite fast with only aircraft carriers beating them out for top speed (among non-planing vessles). Cargo ships (i.e. indies) are your standard cargo carrying vessle and generally slower, even much slower, than naval ships.
You have perfectly valid point there. But big ocean tankers and cargo ships are bigger and heavier that battleships. In EVE.. industrial ships are 5 times smaller than battleships.
But of course.. in real world mass and size does not affect maximum velocity. Mass affects acceleration, but size doesn't matter at all, because there is no friction(is marginally small) in space.
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Aitrus
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Posted - 2004.03.25 11:08:00 -
[50]
Has everyone forgot that Warp has nothing to do with engines? Read the fiction about it. It has to do with generating subspace bubbles and crap. Gotta make a bigger bubble for a bigger ship, which is not as efficient. or something. I dunno.
need sleep.....
<drool>
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Durandal
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Posted - 2004.03.25 11:20:00 -
[51]
Quote: Annoying change! Better would be: Interceptors 4Au/sec Indys 2au/sec ALL else: 3au/sec
Lallante, are you mad? Slow indies down more ?? I can see where you are coming from but I don't think there is any need to slow anything down, just speed the others up, otherwise travelling in an indy for 10+jumps will take about a week.
As for the comments of engine size, I don't really think this has anything to do with it. If you are creating a 'bubble' or distortion in space to travel in/through as is suggested by warp speed, then it should be much easier proportionally for a smaller ship to do this, since proportionally less energy is needed to create a smaller bubble, a smaller bubble is more stable, therefore it goes faster. The battleships are generally larger than the indy's as well, therefore indy's should be faster than battleships.
And as for this change screwing pirates, again I don't think it does. If you are sitting at a gate and an indy comes in, you still have the same opportunity to get it as you did before. If it enters warp and you chase it you still have a chance to get it at the other end (assuming no insta bm's). For example, 50au jump, indy does 4.5au/s BS does 3.0au/s. Indy will get out of warp 15km from gate 5.5 secs before the BS. Now even if the indy is travelling at a good speed, its still going to take at least30 seconds to jump. This gives a battleship 24.5 seconds to target, fire and destroy the indy - which I am sure you can manage.
The change might mean that its not possible to chase a cruiser or frigate across a system, but then again, it was silly that it could in the first place.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!"
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Siobhan
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Posted - 2004.03.25 11:55:00 -
[52]
Better still it encourages the use of Interceptor frigates...
An Indy gets past you into warp - send an interceptor such as the Malediction after the Indy.
It will arrive out of warp before the Indy does and with 3 med slots can lock it down until the BS arrives...
Battleships shouldn't be chasing Indies around... --------- PIE Inc Avenging Angel www.pie-online.co.uk --------- |
PropanElgen
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Posted - 2004.03.25 12:58:00 -
[53]
I think CCP suddenly forgot their own explanation on how warp engines work.. Warp works by "bending space" right, creating some sort of wormhole. This would mean all ships should go by the same speed. If any, the only difference should be how fast they accelerate to warp speed.
All the angels and the puny men of god looked away... Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
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Lucre
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Posted - 2004.03.25 15:33:00 -
[54]
Quote: Turns out that ocean-going battleships are actually quite fast with only aircraft carriers beating them out for top speed (among non-planing vessles).
Er, no. Not as such. WW1 (Tech 1?) battleships were in the 19-22 knot range with fast battleships at 24 or so and battlecruisers up towards 26-28. WW2 battleships were a bit faster (better boilers!), up in the 26-29 knot range with only new fast battleships (e.g. the Iowas which I suspect you are thinking of) or battlecruisers being up beyond 30 knots.
Whereas most cruisers and destroyers would easily do well over 30 knots.
That aside, this sounds like an excellent change in theory - and not just because I suggested it (or was one of those suggesting it) months ago! I'll pass on saying it's excellent in practice until we've worked out exactly what they've done.
What I do want to say though is WHY THE HELL WASN'T THIS IN THE PATCH NOTES? Doubling the warp speeds of some ships *is* kind of a fundamental thing to put in without comment. Like the miner-2 and missile changes (and others in the past), this seems a symptom of patches being too rushed/seat-of-the-pants to be considered/announced properly. (I know we players hassle ccp to get the new content out, but I think most of us would rather have it later and right than earlier and wrong!)
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Skillz
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Posted - 2004.03.25 15:41:00 -
[55]
The Prime Fiction story also excludes bookmarking everywhere. So no insta jump BM.
Keep on flaming, lamers.
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Heritor
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Posted - 2004.03.25 15:55:00 -
[56]
Quote: I think CCP suddenly forgot their own explanation on how warp engines work..
Does not warp suggest that you squash the space in front of you and then let it expand to the rear of you thus giving you the impression of moving
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Iteration X
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Posted - 2004.03.25 17:14:00 -
[57]
ummmm
why doesn't your Warp Drive Op skill modify the base warp speed of your ship, now divided as it is by class o_O? Everything else is modded by something, warpspeed has been one of the few constants. A higher-rank, needing WDO 5, skill, to further tweak speed, couldn't hurt neither (assuming the gains are not huge).
right now 2 pilots in the same kinda ship will chase each other endlessly, even if one has no WDO and the other has it at 5. Seems silly.
Which PA character are you? |
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