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BIRDofPREY
Minmatar PROGENITOR CORPORATION
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Posted - 2008.01.20 13:40:00 -
[1]
Edited by: BIRDofPREY on 20/01/2008 13:40:20 The following PDF file was written a few days after the fall of I1Y and during the evacuation by FIX of the QUERIOUS. I think that is has good bit of information on how to, and how not to run an alliance.
Please ignore the grammar and seplling errors *^)
Link
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Khorian
Gallente Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.01.20 13:51:00 -
[2]
I just hope this wasn't written by a goon
---
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shivan
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.01.20 13:52:00 -
[3]
First page of what is sure to be an epic thread. Station Ping Pong |
BIRDofPREY
Minmatar PROGENITOR CORPORATION
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Posted - 2008.01.20 13:53:00 -
[4]
I think it was me.....
I hope that I was not so incoherent that it appears that way. I hate to have my mother find out and realize those many years in post grad school were just to get girls...
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BIRDofPREY
Minmatar PROGENITOR CORPORATION
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Posted - 2008.01.20 13:59:00 -
[5]
Originally by: shivan First page of what is sure to be an epic thread.
That would be cool! My first "3p1c thread"
I be 31337
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Omeega
UA Industry Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.20 14:03:00 -
[6]
" The fall of QUERIOUS could have been prevented if long term actions were taken. Building a creditable military force, supported by a protected industrial base, with limit on the range of military projection, would have made QUERIOUS less a tempting target. Taking control of access points and making efforts to remove scouting forces would have made taking down POSÆs a hit or miss proposition for invading forces.
In summation, FIX made it easy for Coalition forces to take QUERIOUS as fast as they did. As much as superior intelligence, logistics, and numbers, sped up the fall of QUERIOUS, failure of FIX leadership made it inevitable. "
Ok.
Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
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Future Thing
Ninja Warriors of the Round Table
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Posted - 2008.01.20 14:04:00 -
[7]
That wasn't actually too bad, A pretty damning assessment of the FIX leadership.
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Khorian
Gallente Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.01.20 14:08:00 -
[8]
Originally by: BIRDofPREY I think it was me.....
I hope that I was not so incoherent that it appears that way. I hate to have my mother find out and realize those many years in post grad school were just to get girls...
ôEveryman is a rifleman first.ö While industrial oriented corporations are a necessity, encourage their members to join in on local fleet operations. Every player benefits from being in the alliance and everyone should be ready to defend it. If they only bring Tech 1 frigates, it is still a couple more DPS to the fight.
You sure you are not a goon alt?
No, but seriously. The last few paragraphs seem a little too... far fetched. Why did querious fall? Sure It could have been secured with more ships, 24/7 fleets on the chokepoints. But is that realistic for a single alliance vs 4+ Alliances on different time zones?
Building a creditable military force, supported by a protected industrial base, with limits on the range of military projection, would have made QUERIOUS less a tempting target.
I doubt this. Fix was gonna be a target to the coalition as a BoB ally, no way around it.
My conclusion is: Against overwhelming odds like these you can't hold out too long if your Alliance isn't called BoB.
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Angor
The JORG Corporation Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2008.01.20 14:24:00 -
[9]
they were too busy doing "the daily fix" paper thing to defend everybody knows that. _______________________________ [ 2007.06.07 21:07:22 ] FrankyWave > ransom me guys I am joining XElas !!! |
BIRDofPREY
Minmatar PROGENITOR CORPORATION
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Posted - 2008.01.20 14:26:00 -
[10]
ôEveryman is a rifleman first.ö While industrial oriented corporations are a necessity, encourage their members to join in on local fleet operations. Every player benefits from being in the alliance and everyone should be ready to defend it. If they only bring Tech 1 frigates, it is still a couple more DPS to the fight.
You sure you are not a goon alt?
No, but seriously. The last few paragraphs seem a little too... far fetched. Why did querious fall? Sure It could have been secured with more ships, 24/7 fleets on the chokepoints. But is that realistic for a single alliance vs 4+ Alliances on different time zones?
Building a creditable military force, supported by a protected industrial base, with limits on the range of military projection, would have made QUERIOUS less a tempting target.
I doubt this. Fix was gonna be a target to the coalition as a BoB ally, no way around it.
My conclusion is: Against overwhelming odds like these you can't hold out too long if your Alliance isn't called BoB.
FIX had held out before this, against what could be considered overwhelming odds. They had the benifit of short logistical lines and a small industrial base. As stated in the PDF file, they won by not losing. There was scattered large engagements, sure, but no decisive fights. FIX would simple "bunker down" and wait it out. Typically assualts lasted about 3 weeks before they withered, or events changed the focus of the attack.
In the final period, RAZOR had an advanced force that was able to scout the POS's and systems for very long periods of time and nearly unopposed. FIX forces were mostly in CATCH, fighting with BOB. I can think of 4 characters that were able to lock down I1Y, Z-UZZN and surrounding systems for hours by simple being there. I do believe that at least one pair had help from within FIX itself.
RAZOR owes alot to these characters. The damage they did to the industrial base was far beyond their numbers.
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Louis DelaBlanche
Cosmic Odyssey YouWhat
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Posted - 2008.01.20 14:26:00 -
[11]
Good read. Interesting food for thought even though in FIXs case, no level of organistaion would likely have seen them survive the latest push on Querios alone. Though if what is written is correct not much was done to delay the inevitable, if there was any point in doing so.
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BIRDofPREY
Minmatar PROGENITOR CORPORATION
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Posted - 2008.01.20 14:34:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Louis DelaBlanche Good read. Interesting food for thought even though in FIXs case, no level of organistaion would likely have seen them survive the latest push on Querios alone. Though if what is written is correct not much was done to delay the inevitable, if there was any point in doing so.
If FIX leadership had taken the long view in September of 2007, rather than early December, I think it would have been much more drawn out, even against those odds. Battle favors the defender.
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Cosmos Serendipity
BRAHMA CORP
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Posted - 2008.01.20 14:35:00 -
[13]
Sadly enough, as I was reading this it hit dead on with my experience in ISS. Being my first 0.0 venture, it was discouraging to say the least, but was also a good learning experience.
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Shinori
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.01.20 14:37:00 -
[14]
Why didn't BOB save FIX?
If BOB can defend itself so well, why had they abandoned FIX and then blamed it on them for not resisting 110% of Eve?
We're at 110% now right? The figure changes so often, I can't keep track.
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Orar Ironfist
Incarnation of Evil Nocturnal Legion
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Posted - 2008.01.20 14:39:00 -
[15]
Reserved for when i actually read/watch whatever it is....
Pirate for Life(no matter my sec)
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BIRDofPREY
Minmatar PROGENITOR CORPORATION
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Posted - 2008.01.20 14:41:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Shinori Why didn't BOB save FIX?
If BOB can defend itself so well, why had they abandoned FIX and then blamed it on them for not resisting 110% of Eve?
We're at 110% now right? The figure changes so often, I can't keep track.
FIX fell very fast...
BOB was engaged with MC..
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Scavok
UA Industry Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.20 14:57:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Scavok on 20/01/2008 14:58:07
Originally by: BIRDofPREY
Originally by: Shinori Why didn't BOB save FIX?
If BOB can defend itself so well, why had they abandoned FIX and then blamed it on them for not resisting 110% of Eve?
We're at 110% now right? The figure changes so often, I can't keep track.
FIX fell very fast...
BOB was engaged with MC..
FIX fell over a period of like 2-3 months to fleets of battleships while BoB was either doing nothing in Delve or right next door in Catch.
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Maksiim
Doom and Gloom
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Posted - 2008.01.20 15:04:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Scavok Edited by: Scavok on 20/01/2008 14:58:07
Originally by: BIRDofPREY
Originally by: Shinori Why didn't BOB save FIX?
If BOB can defend itself so well, why had they abandoned FIX and then blamed it on them for not resisting 110% of Eve?
We're at 110% now right? The figure changes so often, I can't keep track.
FIX fell very fast...
BOB was engaged with MC..
FIX fell over a period of like 2-3 months to fleets of battleships while BoB was either doing nothing in Delve or right next door in Catch.
FIX held out against overwhelming odds for over a year with only sporadic assistance from BoB. -A- tried to take space, Razor/IRON tried for over a year to take there space it was only when they got uberblobbed they caved.
It was a good run they had, they are still around.
FanFest is for... |
BIRDofPREY
Minmatar PROGENITOR CORPORATION
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Posted - 2008.01.20 15:14:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Scavok Edited by: Scavok on 20/01/2008 14:58:07
FIX fell over a period of like 2-3 months to fleets of battleships while BoB was either doing nothing in Delve or right next door in Catch.
QUERIOUS has been under attack for over a year up to that point. I had a hard time picking out a start date for the final assault, so my date is based on the arrival of the advanced force. The final period started on 25 December. Easily a 3rd of FIX was either offline for the Holiday season, or stuck in CATCH fighting with BOB.
FIX never did have high numbers of players and the PvP base was absent (For the most part) in QUERIOUS for most of December.
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Nishimura Ikumi
Caldari Viper Squad Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.20 15:50:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Nishimura Ikumi on 20/01/2008 15:54:42 YaY! yet another person who has no life and wants to show us his l33t intel analysis skills that no1 cares about cuz its just a spaceship game.
BTW putting 1+1 and readin caod doesnt make u an intel analyst or historian and mentioning/relating of real life events doesnt make u looks smarter or wiser either. Trying to impress the wrong crowd here.
Get a life seriously. And stop poasting.
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Nocturnal Avenger
The Ankou The Reckoning.
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Posted - 2008.01.20 16:08:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Nishimura Ikumi Edited by: Nishimura Ikumi on 20/01/2008 15:54:42 YaY! yet another person who has no life and wants to show us his l33t intel analysis skills that no1 cares about cuz its just a spaceship game.
<snip>
Get a life seriously. And stop poasting.
You cared enough to read file/thread and post a comment.
Get a life seriously. And stop reading.
- Carebear Pirate - |
Tholarim
Amarr Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.01.20 16:55:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Scavok Edited by: Scavok on 20/01/2008 14:58:07
Originally by: BIRDofPREY
Originally by: Shinori Why didn't BOB save FIX?
If BOB can defend itself so well, why had they abandoned FIX and then blamed it on them for not resisting 110% of Eve?
We're at 110% now right? The figure changes so often, I can't keep track.
FIX fell very fast...
BOB was engaged with MC..
FIX fell over a period of like 2-3 months to fleets of battleships while BoB was either doing nothing in Delve or right next door in Catch.
Ermm the coalition tried to take qurious 3 times. And succeeded the third time indeed, mostly due to a combination of factors and the mc backstabbing yes. But it took the coalition ALOT longer then the 2-3 months you speak of. *snip* Signature unsuitable for forums. Please refrain from refering to ongoing investigations in your signature - Valorem |
DoctorGonzo
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.01.20 17:02:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Tholarim Ermm the coalition tried to take qurious 3 times. And succeeded the third time indeed, mostly due to a combination of factors and the mc backstabbing yes. But it took the coalition ALOT longer then the 2-3 months you speak of.
Try 10 months. I think it was about March 07 when Razor, IRON and Co launched the assault on Querious.
I need to sort a new signature |
eveceo1
Gallente Revival.
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Posted - 2008.01.20 17:04:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Tholarim
Originally by: Scavok Edited by: Scavok on 20/01/2008 14:58:07
Originally by: BIRDofPREY
Originally by: Shinori Why didn't BOB save FIX?
If BOB can defend itself so well, why had they abandoned FIX and then blamed it on them for not resisting 110% of Eve?
We're at 110% now right? The figure changes so often, I can't keep track.
FIX fell very fast...
BOB was engaged with MC..
FIX fell over a period of like 2-3 months to fleets of battleships while BoB was either doing nothing in Delve or right next door in Catch.
Ermm the coalition tried to take qurious 3 times. And succeeded the third time indeed, mostly due to a combination of factors and the mc backstabbing yes. But it took the coalition ALOT longer then the 2-3 months you speak of.
I find it hilarious that you still call it backstabbing.
Quote:
To attack (someone) unfairly, especially in an underhand, deceitful manner
BoB were using FIX and MC as roadblocks - making them do the fighting for them while BoB reinforced Delve as much as possible not caring about their 'allies'. MC made the logical choice of showing BoB the finger. _______________ Yar!Ö |
Fred0
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.20 17:08:00 -
[25]
Originally by: DoctorGonzo
Originally by: Tholarim Ermm the coalition tried to take qurious 3 times. And succeeded the third time indeed, mostly due to a combination of factors and the mc backstabbing yes. But it took the coalition ALOT longer then the 2-3 months you speak of.
Try 10 months. I think it was about March 07 when Razor, IRON and Co launched the assault on Querious.
That's the thruth heavily modified. We launched our first assault on it at that time yes. It lasted maybe two months and after that we all left because MC was rolling us up in Pure Blind. To the best of my knowledge Querious had no serious conflict from June to October in 2007, at which point we started again to try and grind them down. For the last twelve months my guess would be that Querious has been under threat half the time.
This was no different to the Branch operation that preceeded it. We proved more dedicated and just outlasted the opposition because we do not posess the power to seriously just wipe someone aside, for us it's always about trying and keep trying. After a few months of continued trying to opposition normally gives up :) ---
"Cutting Edge 4 Life" |
eveceo1
Gallente Revival.
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Posted - 2008.01.20 17:11:00 -
[26]
Originally by: DoctorGonzo
Originally by: Tholarim Ermm the coalition tried to take qurious 3 times. And succeeded the third time indeed, mostly due to a combination of factors and the mc backstabbing yes. But it took the coalition ALOT longer then the 2-3 months you speak of.
Try 10 months. I think it was about March 07 when Razor, IRON and Co launched the assault on Querious.
From operation logs Razor actively attacked Querious on Sunday, October 7th. _______________ Yar!Ö |
Moonlight Express
Amarr Moonlight Express Inc.
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Posted - 2008.01.20 17:13:00 -
[27]
Originally by: eveceo1
I find it hilarious that you still call it backstabbing.
Quote:
To attack (someone) unfairly, especially in an underhand, deceitful manner
BoB were using FIX and MC as roadblocks - making them do the fighting for them while BoB reinforced Delve as much as possible not caring about their 'allies'. MC made the logical choice of showing BoB the finger.
You mean like what RA does to their pets?
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eveceo1
Gallente Revival.
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Posted - 2008.01.20 17:14:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Moonlight Express
Originally by: eveceo1
I find it hilarious that you still call it backstabbing.
Quote:
To attack (someone) unfairly, especially in an underhand, deceitful manner
BoB were using FIX and MC as roadblocks - making them do the fighting for them while BoB reinforced Delve as much as possible not caring about their 'allies'. MC made the logical choice of showing BoB the finger.
You mean like what RA does to their pets?
Possibly, i don't concern myself with what RA does at this moment in time I'm afraid. _______________ Yar!Ö |
Laboratus
Gallente BGG Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.01.20 17:26:00 -
[29]
The text was excelent. Even though I don't know how well it reflects the organisation in question, it does highlight general problems common in other similar organisations. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
BIRDofPREY
Minmatar PROGENITOR CORPORATION
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Posted - 2008.01.20 17:30:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Laboratus The text was excelent. Even though I don't know how well it reflects the organisation in question, it does highlight general problems common in other similar organisations.
This is my main Formerly of FIX Now in IRC
I hope that this can be a discussion about how to run / not run an alliance rather than name calling
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