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Laboratus
Gallente BGG Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.01.15 16:47:00 -
[31]
Ok, I'll put a top 3 for different categories:
Alpha strike: Mael, Tempest, Abaddon Dps: Abaddon, Armageddon, Mael Range: Rokh, Mega ? Effective hitpoints: Abbadon, Rokh, ?
All in all Tempest shines in it's low price and great performance. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
Si Delane
Sector 7 Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2008.01.15 16:50:00 -
[32]
Ishina (best sigs ever <3 Black Adder) MOST won this post ages ago. The additional range of the Rokh isn't terrible useful (I don't count arriving 15 seconds after the rest of the fleet so you can have a warp-in 75 km behind the rest of the fleet useful).
Although warping in with the fleet and then being able to immediately align and go full out (so you can warp out immediately if you start getting your hp buffer pwned) for the entire engagement without messing up your firing is nice.
Also previously pointed out, before you get T2 guns, the Rokh is king. It can't be touched in terms of the dps it can put out with T1 guns due to the ability to use ammo 2-3 steps higher in damage while achieving similar ranges as other ships.
But I still think the tempest is the most welcome sniper because alpha is awesome, although if you're in the lag fest, the constant reloading and restarting modules must be a bit of a drag.
Pew pew. In terms of satisfaction you get from your guns firing -> Tempest/Laserboats win. Hybrids are so wussy.
------------------------- Actually this IS my main. |
Taguchi Hiroko
Deadly Addiction
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Posted - 2008.01.15 17:02:00 -
[33]
a small thing dont think someone mentioned yet is, when u r shooting at POS's, ammo tend to go down real fast. then ammar is always a good choice.
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Shevar
Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2008.01.15 17:12:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Laboratus Ok, I'll put a top 3 for different categories:
Alpha strike: Mael, Tempest, Abaddon Dps: Abaddon, Armageddon, Mael Range: Rokh, Mega ? Effective hitpoints: Abbadon, Rokh, ?
All in all Tempest shines in it's low price and great performance.
Megathron can have higher hitpoints since it has more grid left for plates. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs |
Bahhs Deep
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Posted - 2008.01.15 17:15:00 -
[35]
One thing about the Rokh, it's insane range isn't completely useless. The further you shoot short range ammo, the better.
The point isn't to use long range ammo from ridiculously far away, but using the highest damage ammo you can at a reasonable distance you deem to be safe enough from which you can shoot.
You might be able to get arround 275km optimal or whatever it is...but how far would you be able to lob Antimatter with that setup/skills? No ship can match the Rokh in a Range/Damage Ratio.
Originally by: Torothin Andrea don't listen to these noobs. The best sniper bs is the tempest hands down. Their the most welcomed fleet bs in game.
I don't mind that you feel the Tempest is the best. However calling everyone else a noob makes me want to primary you if I ever see you in EVE-O. Fly safe M8
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Pan Zhu'Liang
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Posted - 2008.01.15 18:36:00 -
[36]
i don't know about best, but the geddon is the cheapest fleet sniper. and really in fleet engagements everyone is isk tanking anyway, so that counts for something.
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Susa Ou
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Posted - 2008.01.15 19:57:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Ishina Fel Edited by: Ishina Fel on 15/01/2008 13:17:39 The Rokh unfortunately cannot play its range because there will always be non-Rokh ships in the fleet, and downscaling to shorter range ammo is not an option.
As soon as you can fit any race's BS with t2 large guns, though, the Rokh pales in comparison. It has range, but it's range nobody wants or needs (or can even lock targets at).
Rokh with 350s with Spike is always a good option and allows you to make up for the lack of tracking snipers suffer from now. With 425IIs you can fit Cal/Gal navy Iridium and reach out the same distance as what other snipers do and for a fair bit of DPS. As it stands, the Rokh is the best sniper/fleet BB, it has a good tank, it can fit a MWD, it fits 3 Mag-stabs and its flexible. Why choise anything else?
Second best is the Abaddon imo, it also sports a good tank (plate) and good alpha. It however has trouble fitting a MWD and sustain cap - but then again - it also does not need a lot of ammo which makes it really good.
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Tavoca Cel
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Posted - 2008.01.15 21:18:00 -
[38]
To all that say the Tempest is the best consider this:
The Tempest does appear to be one of the heavier hitters except that the Tempest has a short optimal which means while your railgun buddies are hitting for full damage, you are down to 60% or thereabout. It is harder to fit than a mega/rokh. It has far worse tracking than a mega/amarr bs. About half in fact. So you cant even track a transversing target below about 170km which is deep into falloff.
As if the offensive situation wasn't bad enough, the tempest has terrible tanking ability. It's low base armor, lack of low slots to buff the armor/damage/range/tracking, and need for SBs/TCs in the mids make it a bit of a glass cannon. (swap the base shield and armor on the phoon and pest please)
The perception of high damage and the fact of weak tank combine to give you a battleship that is almost always the first primary in fleets. So not only are you not helping the fleet as much as other BSs, you are also costing yourself money. I have in fact seen fewer and fewer tempests in fleets. It seems that the only people flying them have a lot of skillpoints invested in them. Everyone else trains megas/rokhs.
There are a few good things to the tempest however high alpha and no cap use to be exact, but these things don't outweigh the negatives.
As far as best sniper bs... my opinion is as follows:
Rohk is slightly better than a Mega which is better than Any Amarr BS which are about equal, maybe slightly better than a Maelstrom which is better than a Tempest
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Sean Dillon
Caldari Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.01.15 21:45:00 -
[39]
T1 snipers are a joke, plz dont bring them only if u plan on being a meatshield. Yes rokhs can snipe over long distance but their dmg output sucks so plz dont bring one.
I have participated in sniper fleets fully fitted of t2 against mixed t1 and t2 sniper fleets, and the second one always got outclassed, outdamaged. You weaken your own fleet if u bring t1, because your fleetcomm thinks he will cut it with the ammount of bs's he has but over estimates there dps.
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Laboratus
Gallente BGG Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.01.15 22:43:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Tavoca Cel
...The Tempest does appear to be one of the heavier hitters except that the Tempest has a short optimal which means while your railgun buddies are hitting for full damage, you are down to 60% or thereabout. It is harder to fit than a mega/rokh...
...As if the offensive situation wasn't bad enough, the tempest has terrible tanking ability...
...There are a few good things to the tempest however high alpha and no cap use to be exact, but these things don't outweigh the negatives...
This was true all well and true before the T2 ammo nerf. With it, fleets came together closer and most pests find themselves sitting in their optimal. Not to forget the T2 ammo does Exp/kin, so it is kind of a cookie cutter through armor. Not to forget that it actually does almost double volley damage compared to hybrids. Weaker attack? No. Better attack...
Survivability... Yes, less effective hitpoints, about 12% less infact. Then again, relatively, everything, sub-capital, in a fleet is made out of glass when they meet a fleet alpha strike...
On the other hand pests contribute much more to fleet alphas than mega/rokh, but also pop easier. Performance or survivability?
Originally by: Sean Dillon ...Yes rokhs can snipe over long distance but their dmg output sucks so plz dont bring one...
When used right by the FC they can continue harassing enemies while being completely immune to all attempts to harm them due to their extreme range. And. If you compare Rokh and Mega volley damage and dps, you will notice the difference in actual numbers is negligable. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
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Avocad
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.01.16 15:10:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Avocad on 16/01/2008 15:13:47
Originally by: Laboratus Not to forget the T2 ammo does Exp/kin, so it is kind of a cookie cutter through armor. Not to forget that it actually does almost double volley damage compared to hybrids. Weaker attack? No. Better attack...
You might want to run those numbers again my friend. Yes, it does more damage to armor, but it does less overall than hybrids to a plated setup. (by a small percentage) Just put in aurora/spike/tremor damage profiles in EFT and compare the effective HPs on any given setup.
That small percent combined with the range and tracking disadvantages kind of stinks.
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr Delictum 23216
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Posted - 2008.01.16 15:49:00 -
[42]
Personally I'd have to say that the best sniper is the Megathron.
1. Fairly easy to fit, even when using the heaviest caliber rails (425s). 2. 7 bonused high slots with excellent optimal deliver a lot of damage. 3. Enough mids to fit a sufficient amount of Tracking computers/Sensor boosters. 4. Enough lows to be able to fit 3 damage mods and still fit a semi-decent tank. 5. It has a built in tracking bonus, which means that as targets get closer, faster and more agile the Megathron has an advantage against all other arty/rail snipers. Laser snipers have pretty good tracking too, but ships like the Geddon and Abaddon have difficulties matching the Megathron in terms of range, tank and cap stability.
In conclusion: Powerful, Versatile, Durable. While other snipers may excel over the megathron in a particular niche the Megathron is always "close enough" in terms of damage/tracking/tank/staying power to any niche sniper, while surpassing it in all other categories. That's why the Mega is the best sniper in the game (IMHO). ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary. |
Haradgrim
The Wild Bunch INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.01.16 16:08:00 -
[43]
This thread is a bit of a misnomer, the "best" sniping ship depends on the range that you are engaging at.
For insane range: Rokh
Mid Range: Tempest
Short Range: Mega
by short range I mean short range for a sniping BS, and before anyone says it I realize that the tempest and mega are effective at mostly the same ranges, nonetheless the above is my opinion.
Obviously damage scales up/down with distance.
Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
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Diehard Si
UK1 Zero
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Posted - 2008.01.16 16:55:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Caffeine Junkie I think....
Rokh for absolute range. Tempest for Alpha Megathron for DPS
Sums it up nicely really --------------------------------------
Lets face it, people that use the word 'noob' are blatantly either 12 or with more friends on the internet than in real life! |
Dinakheron
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Posted - 2008.01.16 17:16:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Dinakheron on 16/01/2008 17:16:43 Can someone give typical fleet Mega and fleet Rokh setup. What I quickly put up on EFT, Rokh was better sniper. Rokh had slightly more DPS, better tracking (with faction lead) and similar range as sniper Mega (with spike).
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Haradgrim
The Wild Bunch INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.01.16 20:43:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Dinakheron Edited by: Dinakheron on 16/01/2008 17:16:43 Can someone give typical fleet Mega and fleet Rokh setup. What I quickly put up on EFT, Rokh was better sniper. Rokh had slightly more DPS, better tracking (with faction lead) and similar range as sniper Mega (with spike).
I'll let a more experienced mega pilot answer that half of the question, but as for the rokh:
8 x 325mm rails (best you can afford / fit) (ammo to suit situation)
1 x Tracking Computer (range script) 1 x XL-SB II 1 x SB amp 1 x invuln field II 1 x Heavy cap injector 1 x 100mn ab or mwd (depending if this is for mission running of ratting / fleet)
3 x mag field stabs II -or- 2 x mag field stab, 1 x DCU II 2 x PDU II
Rigs 1 x em hardener 2 x CCC
Could go with 3 x CCC for rigs but the em hardener plugs that gaping hole in the shield resists.
Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
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HankMurphy
Minmatar Pelennor Swarm
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Posted - 2008.01.17 01:23:00 -
[47]
machariel, hands down ------------------------------ of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most |
Law Enforcer
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Posted - 2008.01.17 01:30:00 -
[48]
armageddon (cheap to replace). maybe I'm just a cheap ass?
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Daren Kai
Caldari War Tactical Groups
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Posted - 2008.01.17 08:17:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Daren Kai on 17/01/2008 08:24:30 Perfect Rokh: 8 425 t2 Named mwd, 2 sensor busters, 2 tracing comp with range scripts, invul field Damage control, 2 magstabs, rcu 3 shield extender rigs
Have 95k effective hp, can lock targets up to 249km, or reload scripts and have high scan res instead. With cn lead have 140km optimal, nearly 2000 volley damage, 350 dps, have enough cap to shoot for 8 minutes. With spike have 253km optimal, 1700 volley damage, 300 dps. With cn antimatter have 70km (!!!) optimal, 3000 volley damage, 530 dps.
This is "all level V" setup, so in real combat situations numbers will be a bit different. Personally i think this is second best sniper after tempest - ability to shoot up to 249km on optimal, ability to vary optimal according to situation, nice tracking, cap usage and damage with lead.
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Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.17 09:07:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Law Enforcer armageddon (cheap to replace). maybe I'm just a cheap ass?
Geddon is a terrible sniper.
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Laboratus
Gallente BGG Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.01.17 13:14:00 -
[51]
Why is it a terrible sniper? It's got alphastrinke, dps, good lock times, 8 low slots etc ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr Delictum 23216
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Posted - 2008.01.17 13:30:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Laboratus Why is it a terrible sniper? It's got alphastrinke, dps, good lock times, 8 low slots etc
Grid and a difficulty in achieving sniper ranges (compound issue really. For sniper weapons beams are really short ranged and the geddon lacks mids). It leaves room for absolutely nil tank, despite the generous amount of low-slots. As such most FCs target geddons first... So it's not really that cheap in the long run since you'll have to bring a new T2 fitted geddon to every fight. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary. |
Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.01.17 14:22:00 -
[53]
While I've always liked the burst damage of the Tempest, you just cant beat the megathron's 7.5% to tracking.
That's a huge help in a many situations that makes it the king of fleet warfare.
----------------- Friends Forever
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Daren Kai
Caldari War Tactical Groups
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Posted - 2008.01.17 14:31:00 -
[54]
Ammar use apocalypse or abaddon as a sniper bs. Two main problems - fitting and cap. Using apocalypse you can fit 7 tachyons and shoot for 8 or 9 minutes non stop. In abaddon you can fit 8 tachyons + 25% damage bonus (5 lvl bs) but your shooting time reduced to 1.5-2 minutes. So in fleet engagements more often you can see apocalypse. Plus he is quite inexpensive.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.01.17 14:47:00 -
[55]
I just cry tha CCP has screwed som uch with the maesltrom.
IT was said it woudl be a fleet ship and we got a THING that is no where near it.
A proper fleet Maelstrom would have been 5% resist per level on shields (or 10% HP) and 5% damage per level on projectiles.
Result? less dps and less tank. But far far better for fleet engagements. Both bonuses usable and a great alphastrike.
Also would give the Vargur a proper place and role since as of now the vargur is not better than maelstrom as AC boat)
------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Lazuran
Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2008.01.17 15:14:00 -
[56]
The Rokh is IMO better than the Mega. With a standard setup (3 damage mods, 2 x Tracking, 3 SBII, MWD, 425mm T2, plate on the Mega) and max skills:
* Mega does 351 DPS with 0.0049 tracking * Rokh does 323 DPS with 0.0120 tracking (CN Iridium)
Same range, same falloff, Rokh has slightly more effective HP and larger signature.
Now tell me how the slightly higher DPS of the Mega outweight the far better tracking of the Rokh (let alone the potentially much higher range if needed).
The Mega setup is a bit cheaper though.
Disclaimer: I do not speak for the fanbois. |
Susa Ou
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Posted - 2008.01.17 15:47:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Diehard Si
Originally by: Caffeine Junkie I think....
Rokh for absolute range. Tempest for Alpha Megathron for DPS
Sums it up nicely really
Except the Abaddon out Alphas the Tempest by a long shot. . .
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Zagarath
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.01.17 16:07:00 -
[58]
Rokh. Has the best range, good DPS, and best of all, no competant fc calls a Rokh primary over a Tempest or a Geddon, because the Rokh has that lovely 25% resist bonus, meaning it'll be a tougher tank to *****. If It get's up close, go Antimatter, and you can dish out huge dps up to 80 k.
And if you just so happen to be able to create your own warp in points(say your on defense), or slingshot off a buddy already there(warp to 100 off someone at 150), no one can touch you past 170, and you can still dish out your maximum damage.
So my vote goes for the Rokh. There's no other sniper with as much going for it. http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/7875/evesigfx5.jpg
Your sig is way to large, please read the forum rules on the left - Ductoris |
Lazuran
Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2008.01.17 17:42:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Susa Ou
Originally by: Diehard Si
Originally by: Caffeine Junkie I think....
Rokh for absolute range. Tempest for Alpha Megathron for DPS
Sums it up nicely really
Except the Abaddon out Alphas the Tempest by a long shot. . .
Not with T2 sniping ammo and 3 damage mods: the Tempest does 3475 alpha with 6 turrets vs. the Abaddon's 3453.
You may be remembering some discussions here about maximum alpha with close range (highest damage) ammo.
Disclaimer: I do not speak for the fanbois. |
Avocad
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.01.17 19:45:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Susa Ou Except the Abaddon out Alphas the Tempest by a long shot. . .
hahaha
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