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TECHA
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Posted - 2008.01.05 04:15:00 -
[1]
Hi Do you all use Hammers for mission running ? ... Iam finding that Ill lose one per two missions ... pirates like gurista are particularly bad for targeting my drones. And when the drones are like 40 kms away, they can be popped before they reach the saftey of the drone bay. I use hammers because as suggested by eve-survival, their over-all damage makes up for not being specific to the pirates vulnerabilities Are there any cheaper alternates ie Valkaryes or just go back to carrying a set of 4 dmg types around .. ?
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Kessiaan
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Posted - 2008.01.05 04:32:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Kessiaan on 05/01/2008 04:32:27 I do a few things to keep from loosing my expensive drones when I'm mission running. I've only ever lost one (he was webbed ).
1) Aggro the rats on you before you launch the drones. If you're in a room with multiple groups, aggro a group, launch the drones, recall the drones when they're dead, then aggro the next group.
2) If a drone starts taking damage recall it immediately to the drone bay, then relaunch it. If they aggro another group recall them all, wait for the rats to aggro you instead, then relaunch them.
3) Fit a remote armor repper. Rep drones that take armor damage between groups / rooms / waves, and you won't have to worry about having a bunch of beat up drones on some of the more crazy missions.
4) Try to fly on straight, back-and-forth courses. This will let your drones stay close-in to take out frigs (who are a lot faster than you) while keeping the transversals on the cruisers and above low enough so you can engage them with your rails. If your drones are only 5K away you can pop them in and out of the drone bay pretty easily to shake aggro off them.
5) Train drone navigation (get your drones home faster) and drone durability (lets them take more hits).
6) If you're fighting lots of small targets a long ways out, use Hobgoblins instead. They're a LOT faster and generally do better against small targets anyway. Even though they have less HP they're actually fast enough to get out of range before they take too many hits if you order them to disengage soon enough. ----- My in Eve Profile My BattleClinic Page |
marie claude
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Posted - 2008.01.05 05:59:00 -
[3]
i use vespa II more than hammer heads just as good imho and 25% of the price
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William Ortega
Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.05 08:40:00 -
[4]
Quote:
5) Train drone navigation (get your drones home faster) and drone durability (lets them take more hits).
Be careful with that one. I know they say the issue has been fixed, but I swear it seems like it hasn't.
The problem is that drone's speed increase due to this skill carries over to when they are orbiting your target. Thus, if all of the sudden your drones are orbitting faster but their tracking stays the same, they start having troubles hitting things. For example, my Wasp II had no problem popping a frig in 2 volleys, but couple of Drone navigation levels later I have to recall them and launch smaller drones because otherwise my Heavies just orbit around twiddling their thumbs.
A good rule of thumb, I suppose, is to keep drone sharpshooting (drone tracking skill) 1 to 2 levels above drone navigation (drone speed skill).
I, of course, found myself pvp'ing a lot more than I used to and slow drones in a nano age is . So I had to bite the bullet.
P.S. I know that mission sites recommend to just go with thermal damage drones because of their damage multiplier, but I would recommend looking into other (appropriate to the mission damage type) drones as well. AFAIK, Ogres are the slowest drones out there, and while you get sexy figures for their dps, almost every other drone will be on target much faster and hitting longer (plus they dont cost 1.5 mil when you lose one ). Of course, if you are running a ship whose primary or even secondary dps does not come from drones (e.g. raven) just forget what I said and use the hammers as swapping out drones for every mission is too much of a hassle.
-Willy |
notaway
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.01.05 11:29:00 -
[5]
I have a myrm and have been reading where ppl are using sentry drones especially for situations where there are towers etc way out past the normal drone range. I may be trying that for the first time in the 5 of 7 New Frontiers lvl 3 mission where I would deploy Sentry drones to shoot an energy neut tower, scoop sentry drones and wait on aggro from advancing drones, destroy wave, scoop and re-deply sentries again against the next neut tower etc etc. Apparently there are at least 4 and maybe 6 neut towers and 2 stasis towers along with scrammer drones and each time u shoot at a neut tower a new drone wave spawns for at least 3 of the energy neut towers. With the Drake can only deploy the one drone if it's a Sentry but what the heck maybe I should just use a Raven.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.01.05 12:12:00 -
[6]
Originally by: William Ortega
A good rule of thumb, I suppose, is to keep drone sharpshooting (drone tracking skill) 1 to 2 levels above drone navigation (drone speed skill).
Drone sharpshooting do nothing for drone tracking skills . It increase optimal range, so you start firing a bit before but it don't change the range at which the drone orbit, so it change noting in the tracking department.
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Father Dibbles
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Posted - 2008.01.05 12:33:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Father Dibbles on 05/01/2008 12:34:37
Originally by: William Ortega
Be careful with that one. I know they say the issue has been fixed, but I swear it seems like it hasn't.
Yea, I remember reading somewhere that its best to skill-up Navi & Sharpshooting in tandem, to avoid all that. Default combat gallente chars now start with 5 Navi/4 Sharpshooting; I've certainly never been able to kill a frig with heavies, without a web. My old toon had no problems however, with 0 Navi 0 Sharpshooting, but that was a while back and things have changed.
As for keeping your drones.... like several people say here just make sure all rats in a particular group have lock on you before you release - fire a single gun if you are a drone carrier and wait until everythings cooking. Sometimes I have noticed the drones being hit by FOF missiles, or they will get aggro from a different group - but generally this method is pretty reliable.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.01.05 12:51:00 -
[8]
Originally by: notaway I have a myrm and have been reading where ppl are using sentry drones especially for situations where there are towers etc way out past the normal drone range. I may be trying that for the first time in the 5 of 7 New Frontiers lvl 3 mission where I would deploy Sentry drones to shoot an energy neut tower, scoop sentry drones and wait on aggro from advancing drones, destroy wave, scoop and re-deply sentries again against the next neut tower etc etc. Apparently there are at least 4 and maybe 6 neut towers and 2 stasis towers along with scrammer drones and each time u shoot at a neut tower a new drone wave spawns for at least 3 of the energy neut towers. With the Drake can only deploy the one drone if it's a Sentry but what the heck maybe I should just use a Raven.
do it n a passive Drake and laugh. Never gone under 60% shield with a mediocre set up.
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machiavellianist
Caldari D'Arcy Corp
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Posted - 2008.01.05 15:07:00 -
[9]
tbh, unless your drone gets stuck behind a structure when being recalled theres no reason to ever lose one. the second reply to this post pretty much tells you all you need to know to avoid losing your pricy t2 meds.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.01.05 18:58:00 -
[10]
pretty much what they said
i always manage to lose drones because i lose connection.
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Ky Vatta
Caldari Majority 12
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Posted - 2008.01.05 19:18:00 -
[11]
If you may not have noticed, all the drones that give out thermal damage are the slowest of the drone types
I myself tend to mix drone types, to mix drone damage; most people use specific drones depending on who the main rats are you are doing missions against, ie Kinetic damage drones v Guristas
Tip: if you let the rats target you first, they tend to ignore your drones ---
Self-confessed Carebear, and proud of it |
William Ortega
Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.05 21:19:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: William Ortega
A good rule of thumb, I suppose, is to keep drone sharpshooting (drone tracking skill) 1 to 2 levels above drone navigation (drone speed skill).
Drone sharpshooting do nothing for drone tracking skills . It increase optimal range, so you start firing a bit before but it don't change the range at which the drone orbit, so it change noting in the tracking department.
Faster orbits mean higher orbit radius, which could move the target out of drone's optimal. That being said, this has simply been my observation, that after training navigation my heavies have much more problems hitting small targets. It is based on anecdotal evidence. I did notice that when I brought up my sharpshooting past my navigation skill again, my problems with hitting small targets have been reduced. I have done this in the middle of rev2 so nothing should have changed due to patches or something like that.
My suggestion would be to train drone dps before drone navigation, but that is just my opinion.
-Willy |
captain dak
Gallente Miners And Designers
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Posted - 2008.01.06 22:49:00 -
[13]
i currently just use hobgoblin 2's because they are much cheaper than hammer heads and while they are fast enough to make it back to drone bay no matter distance before they die, i can take out frigs, cruisers, bc's and battleships in lvl 4 missions, all on thier own without help from my weapons.
and if they do happen to get blown up they only cost me around 120k ea which while doing lvl 4's isnt a lot of money, compared to losing a hammerhead II for 1-1.5mil
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Helen Hunts
Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc Red Dragon Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.07 18:40:00 -
[14]
Drone Navigation no longer affects orbit speed, so *that* tracking issue no longer exists.
Aggro managment - your ship is generally more durable than a drone. Keep the rats going after your ship, and the drones have a free run at destroying everything
Focus Fire - one of the new drone options. It'll keep your drones acting as a single cohesive unit (usually) that kills a single target rather fast instead of breaking up and slow (if ever) kills on multiple targets.
Drone durability - makes your drones a little more tolerant to the occasional shot directed at it.
Personally, I use 2 flights of Hammer 2s along with a few mixed flights of other T2 lights. Quite simply, I don't lose drones without disconnecting to the game. _______________________________
Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money.
Any Questions? |
Nigal Tufnel
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Posted - 2008.01.08 00:26:00 -
[15]
While I have the skills to use T2 hammerheads I don't have the wallet yet. Even with me getting agro first sometimes the they get killed off before I can recall them. Thinking of training up Vespas II for a cheaper alternative.
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WardogX
Minmatar Outkasts
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Posted - 2008.01.08 01:06:00 -
[16]
Just make sure you got all rats targeting you directly. (use turrets to taunt them.. even if you cant hit them blind firing helps you get aggro).
Also, fiting long range turrets helps you can pluck off everything thast 20-70km out really easy. Once they drop in less then 20km.. i pull out the drones... by then ALL aggro is on me... and i can keep these drones ona short leesh. The trouble is when you let drones go out 40km and you dont have aggro out of the groups farthest to the back. Also, you run risk of messing up and popping a main rat that triggers a new wave. If you dont recall drones RIGHT then when the new wave comes in.. you run risk of losing drones. I dont even care if you are about to blow up a rat and down to its last 10% of its hull... pull the drones in.. get control of ALL new aggro on the wave... once you do that.. let the drones come back out again.
Hammerheads unlike ogres are at least very fast so you run less of a risk of losing them. typically on lev 4 missions by the time you realize you hammerhead has been targeted by the time you reel it in.. its to late cause it blows up. room for making mistakes is nill.. which means you need to be precise with your aggro control if you wish to avoid this problem.
If you ever played a "tank" in other mmo's (eq, eq2, wow, daoc, etc) knowing how to control aggro is the same thing.. your group members cant pull aggro from you or they die.. and being slopping with aggro can get yourself killed if you arnt careful... learning how and when to manage aggro (for all mmo's) is very universal to these kinda games. Once you understand the philosophy of aggro control... it gets easy.
You need to just be alert.. cautious.. and at same time be ready in a blink of an idea to shift the way you doing things to save the group (in this case your group is your drones)
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Radix Salvilines
VENA GROUP
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Posted - 2008.01.08 01:25:00 -
[17]
About what Kassian said (from ishtar drone *****):
1)...recall the drones when they're dead - no need just shoot the next group. Recalling drones after one group is dead is just a waste of time... lol what an idea man :P 2) If a drone starts taking damage recall it immediately - RADIX:nope. Reacall them all now. Or they might switch on other drones rather than you :P 3) Fit a remote armor repper - RADIX:not worth bothering. Takes up one high-slot when u can use it for one extra gun/tractor/salvager. Im using ogres II and repping them would not compensate the loss of time due to longer looting process :) 4) Just an addition - use hobgoblins for frigs with more than 25k bounty... they do less damage but hit better - webbers goes down faster :) 5) Train ... drone durability (lets them take more hits) - RADIX: loss of time imho. If the drones really are getting shot at and either ure not afking ull scoop them fast enough unless theyre webbed (in that case skill wont help u) or ure afking and this skill wont help u also :P 6) If you're fighting lots of small targets a long ways out, use Hobgoblins instead. They're a LOT faster and generally do better against small targets anyway. - RADIX - no, no, no wth u talkin about man :P IF there are like i said frigs x>25k bounty - hobs.. after theyre gone - hammerheads or best ogres (yeah they kill frigates too [and they do this damn well] - but not the webbing/scrambling ones). If u fly into plex with 20 frigs launch hammers. And forget :P
But anyways ill just say that hammers basically... sux :P If u want to use drones use hobgoblins and ogres (if possible - only applies to drone ships). Hammers cant kill fast frigs FAST ENOUGH, they cant intercept incoming fast frigs FAST ENOUGH and they dont deal the damage the ogres do. So unless u have no other choice - dont use hammers :P
But best work out your own strategies - as u can see they can wary from dude to dude and it will only make u not like dronies :) Go and try man. A few... dozens :P of drones lost and ull be loosing drones only due to stacking bug :) ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥-☻VENA☺-♥ ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ |
Evelyn Murphy
Caldari Khaos Heavy Industries Order of Khaos
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Posted - 2008.01.08 03:07:00 -
[18]
Here's what I do, keeping it all simple.
1. You warp in, instantly launch your desired drones.
2. If there is agro, you will get it not your drones and you many send your drones after the flashy target.
3. If there is no agro, choose a target, fire on it. Your drones should go after that target now. Be careful when firing into groups that are close together. In some missions, you might agro only part of a blob, so be careful when sending your drones in. On most missions, you will notice that there are distinctly separate groups.
4. You only need one gun of any size or range to agro a target.
If you agro the target before you send out the drones and you be careful not to get your drones near to any other group, you shouldn't ever lose one. Just keep an eye on the surrounding groups to make sure they aren't after your drones. I usually zoom in on a ship and look to see if it is flying straight for my drone or if it is just milling around.
Hope that made sense.
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Radix Salvilines
VENA GROUP
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Posted - 2008.01.08 03:53:00 -
[19]
^ now that guy talks with sense :D
Ill add one thing - things arent that easy when u have missions with spawns... ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥-☻VENA☺-♥ ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ |
OneSock
Crown Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.08 12:07:00 -
[20]
I rarely lose Medium drones. Heavies you do lose from time to time, depending on NPC agro patterns.
General rules of thumb:
Don't launch them until you've agroed your intended target. Don't let them engage an NPC which is near an unagroed group.
If your careful you should only lose a few this way. Of course the other situation you have little control over is if you get into hot water and warp out before your drones can make it back to drone bay. Last time that happened to me I was being roasted by 5x Centus Tyrant battleships plus support.
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Hectaire Glade
Forum Jockey
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Posted - 2008.01.08 12:40:00 -
[21]
I haven't lost a drone in over 6 months, call them back to you in good time before the next wave spawn and they'll rarely get scratched. Oh, and train drone durability to 4 :)
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marie claude
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.01.09 01:06:00 -
[22]
bah i never use heavies unless they are sentries. use sentries with a myrm fit2 omni directionals and a sentry damage rig and weeee trinity = EPIC FAIL |
Suki Kamir
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Posted - 2008.01.09 01:12:00 -
[23]
Just a quick question on this. I just put my hammerhead and hobgoblin BPOs in to heavy ME research (ME200) and will be putting them in for PE after that with the intention of trying to invent my own T2 BPCs.
However, I have never invented before and I hear it is a hit or miss affair. Is there a way to improve the likelyhood I will succeed? Also what are the results generally? how many T2 BPCs can I expect to get if I succeed, and more importantly how many runs? Also I notice ME and PE figures for T2 items are minus amounts, is this totally random or does it work based on the original ME/PE of the BPO? I am hoping the latter which is why I have my BPOs in high ME research at the moment.
Thanks
Suki
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William Ortega
Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.09 01:34:00 -
[24]
Suki,
This is not the right forum for those questions. Check out "Stations, Starbases, and Outposts". That forum is generally where discusison about invention and t2 manufacturing takes place, with some nice stickies and guides floating around.
I suggest reading up on invention before going too far but a quick answer to your questions:
1. Yes invention is hit or miss. Probabilities of success range from about 20% for ships to 40% for modules.
2. ME/PE of BPO's has no effect on ME/PE of invented t2 bpc, however you will need a t1 version of the item to produce a t2 item, so there high ME/PE helps.
3. To improve your probability of success use correct decryptors (skills have minimal impact when compared to decryptors).
4. To improve the # of runs on the invented t2 bpc use the appropriate decryptor and / or use max run copies of the t1 blueprint.
-Willy |
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