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Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.20 04:20:00 - [181] MINMATAR Name: Conflagration Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret arte of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 20900 CPU: 630 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7500 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8000 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 120m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Electronics V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret arte of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/7/5/2 Power Grid: 20900 CPU: 630 Hard points: 6 Turret/5 Launcher Shield HP: 8150 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 120m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Skirmish Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.21 17:43:00 - [182] bump Changes from previous version of the ships Corrected a stat error in the minmatar ships when it came to their drone bay Removed hard points from all ships except the Requiem. So now all ships can have a maximum of 8 weapons on a ship. Changed Frontline Command Ship role bonus to read "10% bonus to warfare link effectiveness" Changed all ships Flagship bonus from "3% bonus to race specific fleet modifier" to "5% bonus to race specific fleet modifer" Just so you guys know what happned.
Kevalan Cruentus	Posted - 2008.01.21 17:51:00 - [183] Make it 5 cmd modules on the fleet ships, and allow three on the non-fleet ships. Take more hardpoints off the fleet ships and make em harder. =) my 2c
Ceti Lomax Minmatar Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2008.01.21 18:17:00 - [184] Nice work Balor I can see you have put a lot of effort into these proposed new ships. For what it's worth, here is my two cents on how flag ships should work: - Something is needed to differential these ship more from Command ships and from other T2 Battleships. - I suggest that only 1 Flagship is required per race. - damage output should be nerfed. Maybe only 4 turrets or bays per ship. - Fleet command attributes should be enhanced. Allow 1 warfare link module per Flagship level (up to 5). - Add a role bonus of %10 effectivness to warfare link modules. - Add a unique role bonus. Something like the ability to use warfare link modules while cloaked, or warfare link modules affect any gang member in system, not just in grid. - This ship should be the definitive ship to have when leading a gang, but be relatively week for missioning or solo combat. (we've got other ships to do that). Just my two cents. Fire Seeks Fire ... Namtz'aar K'in
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.21 19:02:00 - [185] Interesting ideas, i am completely against reducing the number of hard points any more than they are now. I feel that if the ships had any less turrets or launchers they would not be able to even defend themselves effectively. Nor would they be able to contribute more to a combat situation. The idea of making them more fleet oriented must be looked at with caution. It would be very easy to make the ships so powerful in that manner that the ship and its associated fleet would become almost indestructable. Im very hesitant on reducing the number of varients. I have a hard time trying to figure out how to make the two varients advantages and disadvatages work in on ship without becoming a ship with a massive amount of bonuses and drawbacks. As far as missioning is concerned, these ships would be no better if not slightly worse than a standard tier 3 battleship. I will work on a single flagship design that dose the job of both the Frontline and Theater Command ship.
Ceanthar Cerbera Minmatar Lone Gunmen	Posted - 2008.01.22 13:06:00 - [186] Originally by: Ceti Lomax Nice work Balor I can see you have put a lot of effort into these proposed new ships. For what it's worth, here is my two cents on how flag ships should work: - Something is needed to differential these ship more from Command ships and from other T2 Battleships. - I suggest that only 1 Flagship is required per race. - damage output should be nerfed. Maybe only 4 turrets or bays per ship. - Fleet command attributes should be enhanced. Allow 1 warfare link module per Flagship level (up to 5). - Add a role bonus of %10 effectivness to warfare link modules. - Add a unique role bonus. Something like the ability to use warfare link modules while cloaked, or warfare link modules affect any gang member in system, not just in grid. - This ship should be the definitive ship to have when leading a gang, but be relatively week for missioning or solo combat. (we've got other ships to do that). Just my two cents. This is pretty much what Ive been saying also, more or less. I could see something like this working. Only problem is that the ship bonus would overlap the link bonus. But I still think warfare links should be changed according to what I said earlier. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% reduction to Large energy turret capacitor use, 5% bonus to fleet members armor hitpoint per level, activate 1 extra warfare lin module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 15% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module Fitting slots: 8/5/7/2 Power Grid: 20900 CPU: 550 Hard points: 6 turrets Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 9000 Armor Resistances: 60/20/25/35s Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Caldari Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 10% large hybrid turret optimal range per level, activate 1 extra warfare lin module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 15% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 770 Hard points: 5 Turret/ 5 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 7000 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Gallente Battleship Bonus: +5% large hybrid damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's armor repair amount per level, +50m3 drone bay per level, activate 1 extra warfare lin module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, +15% information warfare link effectivenes. Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 590 Hard points: 6 Turret Shield HP: 7500 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8500 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.22 20:01:00 - [187] The ship designs which you have put forth are extremely powerful. Not in th respect of DPS, but the shier tank these ships are going to be capable of, and by the nature of warfare links, be able to give to the fleet they are commanding. It would not be hard to see ships with tech 2 fittings with tanks that have near 95% resistances, and those with innate armor bonuses to have close to 98%. My math is not 100% correct because I do not know the exact mechanism that CCP uses to calculate such things. My logic however is the fallowing for the Amarr. A Requiem with max skills for tanking and to pilot the ship, not unreasonable, with 3x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane IIs, plus 5x Passive Defence Armored Warfare Links. To my calculations that equils aproximately 99%EM 97.5%Explosive 97%Kinetic 97%Thermal. That make a tank on a ship that is very hard to beat even with a fleet pounding it. Second problem that I desperately want to avoid is the huge amount of bonuses that your ship deigns have. One real easy way to make sure a ship is ballanced is to make the bonus list short and simple. You have 7 bonuses per ship, some Capital ship do not have that many. Also the fleet bonuses do not match what CCP has show to be the presidence for each race. That being Amarr have cap recharge, Gallente have armor hit points, Caldari have shield hit points, and Minmatar have signature radius reduction. I do not mean to sound like I am trying to flame you it is simply that I feel you designs are very powerful.
Ceanthar Cerbera Minmatar Lone Gunmen	Posted - 2008.01.23 12:14:00 - [188] Edited by: Ceanthar Cerbera on 23/01/2008 12:14:51 Originally by: Balor Haliquin Also the fleet bonuses do not match what CCP has show to be the presidence for each race. That being Amarr have cap recharge, Gallente have armor hit points, Caldari have shield hit points, and Minmatar have signature radius reduction. This is wrong. Look at the different commandlinks and you see that they are Amarr (Armored warfare) - armor resistance, repair boost cycletime, and repair boost energy reduction Caldari (Siege warfare) - shield resistance, shield boost enrgy reduction, shield amount Gallente (Information warfare) - sensor strength, range of EW modules, strength of EW modules Minmatar (Skirmish warfare) - Reduce signature radius, increase AB/MWD boost amount, decrease AB/MWD cap need Furthermore the Caldari ships have shield resist bonus (Moa, Ferox, Drake, Rokh) Amarr ships have armor resistance bonus (Prophecy, Maller, Abbadon) and the Augoror share the armor amount with the Damnation Gallenteships have armor repair amount bonus (Myrmidon, Brutix, Hyperion) And drone bonuses (Vexor, Myrmidon, Dominix, Eos) Minmatar have shield boost amount (Cyclone, Maelstrom) Also the ships have certain qualities shared troughout the ships. Amarr have their armor as main tank and the most armor hp and low slots as a result. Caldari have shield as main tank, the most shield and many midslots. Gallente Have no main tank per say. The use a rmor repair amount bonus or none at all, they do have the biggest hull hp of all races. Minmatar have small signatures and fast ships and a jack of all trades (some ship use shield others armor). There are other qualities also. The c=mmandships have as special ability Amarr - armor hp amount (wich it shares with the Augoror) Caldari - Just builds on the Ferox shield resist Gallente - Armor boost amount and drone bay Minmatar - Builds on the shield boost of cyclone As for the Amarr capacitor bonus it is a weapon dmg bonus!? It sounds strange but in reality it is similar to a rate of fire or dmg bonus since it allows for more sustained weapon usage. So it is not more of a "ship" or "race" bonus than the many minmatar ships that have rate of fire. Wether weapon bonuses should be included in warfare link is a well asked question. Views might differ here but my personal belief is that weapon bonuses should not be included. But I can agree with you that my examples might be excessive. But I have also stated that I really dont see a need for more commandships in the game. But if you really feel the need for a flagship it should be special. Your examples just arent that,Im sorry. Like you say it might be hard to find an acceptable middle ground. People will never accept a "real" commandship since noone wants to be that passive role. People want to gank. The supportive role that command ships have, and should have, means people wont be interested unless they can fit a full rack of weapons. I (and more with me it would seem) dont think the ships should be able to fit a full rack of weapons. As for the actual bonuses I put out theyre just examples. Maybe some could be removed. two t1 bonuses, two t2 bonuses and 2 role bonuses seem to be the norm. Although motherships have 9. But then again carriers and motherships are the "big commandships". Albeit without the specialized command bonus of the commandships Aeon Amarr Carrier Skill Bonuses: 50% bonus to Capital Energy and Armor transfer range per level 5% bonus to all Armor resistances per level 99% reduction in CPU need for Clone Vat Bay 99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules 99% reduction in CPU need for Projected Electronic Counter Measures modules 99% reduction in CPU need for Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration modules Can deploy 3 additional Fighters per level Can fit 1 additional Warfare Link module per level 200% bonus to Fighter control range Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.23 16:34:00 - [189] I would like to point out that where i got the concept for the fleet bonuses was not based on the Warfare Link Modules at all, but instead from each race's Titan. I understand what each race specializes as far as Warfare Link Modules are concerned. Im sorry i forgot to specify where i got the fleet bonuses that ships get. And as far is that is concerned the bonuses fallow the presidence for the race. One of the major issues with giving the flagships the bonus of having 1 additional active warfare link and a bonus to the effectiveness of the link is that they will be the absolute best at the job. Im not sure that is what CCP wants or EVE needs. Limiting the number of warfare links that can be active but making them better allows the ship to be more versitile in a dynamic combat situation. A reduction or bonus to cap use by no means means a bonus to rate of fire. They are two seperate bonuses which have completely different consoquences. An ROF bonus will increase the DPS of a ship but also eat up capacitor faster because of the increased rate of fire. Cap reduction only servers to ensure that cap use is a little more stable and the cap can last longer. Their is no increased damage rate from this. So therefore cap usage is a reduction in the cost of a weapon system not a bonus to its damage. Just because you may be able to fire the weapons for a more sustained period of time dose not make the weapons more powerful. It is the unfortunate truth that any ship that is ever made will have its fans and critiques. I think that EVE could use a ship that specilizes in the command role, is allowed in high sec, and is based of a battleship chassie. But again that is my opinion. I would like to gank, but in combat i would rather asure the fell victory rather than have a personal kill and have my fleet be completely destroyed. I can honestly say that i belive that these ship have a place in EVE. I can honestly see what you mean when you say that you think their is no place for a bigger command ship. You raise some very valid points. But i am trying to make an entire class of ships and trying to ballance them with the game mechanics and players styles, not to say you are not trying to do the same. Even then, realize that all this may be a fools earned. It is still up to CCP to look at this an do something with it. I was thinking of an idea to make them even less gank oriented, by giving all the ships a -25% to Large Turret Tracking.
Seetesh Caldari Imperial Reseach	Posted - 2008.01.24 00:10:00 - [190] Signed, i love the idea of the flagship. I hope ccp takes notice.

Nemtar Nataal	Posted - 2008.01.24 08:52:00 - [191] Edited by: Nemtar Nataal on 24/01/2008 08:52:41 Originally by: Rjaiajik Kajvoril It probably would make the command ship redundant if the flagship was done as intended however this would make fleet combat more interesting as it would make the market value of the ships drop, this means more people would jump at the chance to grab one because let's face it, a tech two ship is always wanted. ... To protect the roles of the diffrent ships, then maybe CCP should consider that certent shots in a fleet could only be filled by a few ships. This is the current command structure (from what i remember): Fleet Commander Wing Commander Squard Commander So what if the position of the fleet commander and the wing commander was limited to specific ships? It would play with the over all theam of the game, cause you would need more advanced command modules to keep track of all the members in the fleet and the diffrent bonuses bieng delegated. A ship command structure could look somthing like this: <Ship> - <Fleet position> Battlecruiser - Wing Commander Carreier - Wing Commander Commandship - Wing Commander, Fleet commander Mothership - Wing commander, Fleet Commander Flagship - Fleet Commander Titan - Fleet Commander (why only this, well there added gang bonus is so big that there potential is to great if you get more then one titan gang bonus).
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.01.24 15:21:00 - [192] need another role... but would really like to see the hac type bs-... could give it 4 weaponslots and let it use cap seize weapon, make it a cap ship killer I declare war on stupidity
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.01.24 19:03:00 - [193] While the idea is interesting...... ....it is first of all a solution looking for a problem. Secondly, and far more important, it'll create inflation! Not monetary inflation, but feature inflation! One of the most common mistakes by MMOG developers is that they want their stuff to be nber, and instead of making them unique/special in some way, they simply go and make them better than what is there already. This is VERY bad for any MMOG, and CCP is not immune to doing it either. Putting in better stuff means that the stuff that just got superseded will not get used, so they'll have to get buffed at some point. Their dev's want them to be nber so they over-buff them, leading to a feature death-spiral. The same for these. Looking at the suggested ships, they're clearly better than anything else their size in space. They're formidable battleships in themselves, and better than command ships in a fleet command role. So while the OP has put a lot of work into this, he hasn't got anything remotely like a small clue about how to balance features in a MMOG! Whenever you add something beneficial, generally you have to make some other thing deficient. These ships don't have ANY disadvantages! Implementing too-good things, like these ships, are one of the things that eventually can lead to the death of a MMOG. So, I'd predict CCP wouldn't consider something like this, and rightly so for the good of the game! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.25 00:53:00 - [194] Wow, that was increadibly harsh sir. I would like people to suggest ways that they could be changed and not simply say that theses ships are completely overpowered. I would have to disagree with you on the point of the Flagship being far better than anything els in the area of tech 2 battleships. The Marauders out damage the Flagship by a rather significant amount. The Flagships may or may not be able to out tank the Marauders but I really have no real world way of testing that. A quick question have you looked at the most recent versions of the ships. They are significantly different and restricted by comparison. And there may yet be more reduction in power. Also consider that it is going to be very hard for any of the ships to fit a full rack of weapons systems on the ships because of the reduced fitting stats. I am no expert on MMORPGs but I would appreciate a little less in the way calling me a complete fool for balancing and design. I am meerly putting forth an idea. As for the Flagships job, I can see them as more than just command ships but not as uber gank platforms. They are simply ill suited for the role of solo gank. The base hulls are for more effective and cheeper. I will probably be reducing the fitting stats and putting in more disadvantages in a future version. But I would rather not throw some random modifier on the ships and not even bother to see if it works for what I intend it to do.
Thargat Caldari North Star Networks Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.25 01:08:00 - [195] Give them little or very weak offensive capabilities (except for a small racial boost) and implement some good bonuses to remote tracking links and other support features. Lower the resists (so their more in line with ships of the same size). But boost their initial HP by a very large amount so that they'r really slow to kill (this would need a lowering of the shield recharge to prevent passive tank ala faction rattlesnake). And give them some nice static (built in) gangbonuses wich are not included in their gangmodule bonus. These should be very specific ships and not something people swing around for small gang pvp (like the commandships are used today). There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius.
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.01.25 09:05:00 - [196] Originally by: Balor Haliquin I would like people to suggest ways that they could be changed and not simply say that theses ships are completely overpowered. ...doesn't matter much when you also say (in another post): Originally by: Balor Haliquin i am completely against reducing the number of hard points any more than they are now. Originally by: Balor Haliquin I would have to disagree with you on the point of the Flagship being far better than anything els in the area of tech 2 battleships. The Marauders outdamage the Flagship by a rather significant amount. Ehem.... just for example The Golem has an effective 8 weapon highslots, no damage modifiers other than the explosion velocity. Your caldari ship has: 8 weapon highslots, with a 25% RoF increase for 7 of them. The other ones are just as bad! How you can translate that to "Marauders outdamage the Flagship by a rather significant amount" is beyond me! Your statement is a flat-out lie! Originally by: Balor Haliquin quick question have you looked at the most recent versions of the ships. Yes. They're completely unbalanced! Originally by: Balor Haliquin ...reduced fitting stats. And another flat-out lie! What 'reduced fitting stats'? Your caldari ship: Fitting slots: 8/7/5/2 Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 770 CNR (can't really compare to Marauders because of bonuses): Fitting slots: 8/6/5/3 Power Grid: 9500 (!) CPU: 720 (!) Originally by: Balor Haliquin I am no expert on MMORPGs but I would appreciate a little less in the way calling me a complete fool for balancing and design. I'm an outspoken guy, and as I've just demonstrated, you idea IS completely foolish and overpowered! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:52:00 - [197] First of all, theses ships are not based off of the tier 2 ships but off of the tier 3 ships. So comparing the fitting stats to a Caldari Navy Raven to a Rohk based ship is going to make them look completely unballanced. That ship and its missle bonuses im a little unsure of, it originaly had 6 Launchers hard points at one point, i'm not sure what explosion velocity or missle velocity dose exactly. I have said that i am against reducing the hard points on ships. but i have done it for all versions of the ships at least once since people suggested that. And considering how much people are complaining about it i am proabably going to do it again. Noting how some of the ships do the exact same damage as the Marauders and i thought i had avoided that. Noting how the missles for the launchers for the missle boats require a lot less to fit, i have to further reduce the fitting costs of the ships that use only missles. If some one could tell me exactly what the missle bonuses do to a ship then i can have an idea of what bonuses are needed where. I will try and get the new ships up soon.
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.01.25 18:30:00 - [198] Point taken about the Raven, but lets look at it compared to the Rokh: Your Oni: Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 770 Rokh: Fitting slots: 8/6/5/3 Power Grid: 15000 CPU: 780 You've basically taken the Rokh, made a few cosmetic changes to the fitting stats, added a whole bunch of new uber stuff, and calls that balanced You even replaced the Rokh's 'Optimal Range' bonus (which is nice but not uber), and replaced it with one of THE top bonus', the RoF increase (making your 7 turrets the equivalent of having 8.75 turrets on a Rokh, plus the extra missile slot, and even giving an extra low slot for an RC2)!! And again, your still presenting a solution without a problem. Just creating something bigger and better isn't good game design! We already have command ships for this role, which they're very nicely balanced for. They give all the nice bonus to their fleet-mates, and have a good tank and defense against smaller ships. But when all is said and done, they're still BC's. So their advantage is countered by a similar sized disadvantage (ie. they're vulnerable to BS fire). Besides, command ships SHOULDN'T be able to defend themselves well. They're fleet support ships, and should in turn be supported and protected by their fleet. In that aspect your ships also fail since a command ship don't need to defend against battleships, but needs to defend against cruiser or less sized ships to break free of scramblers and warp out. Thus your heavy BS sized armament only serves one purpose, to make these BS sized HAC's, with extra resists and more firepower... This is why your designs are unbalanced and BAD. You just add nice stuff, but don't put in any similar sized disadvantages. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.25 21:46:00 - [199] I am just making a suggestion for eve. It is a concept that I had for a ship. You don't have to like it or even believ that it is solving a problem at all. All I am doing is putting an idea forth for a ship class, nothing more or nothing less. I have also included a set of possible jobs that i might be able to do. As I said before I am working on the concept and will have some new designs up. If you think the designs are bad and useless, then why do you post here. I already understand you think they are useless and unballanced, there is no need to say it in every post.
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys Dread Sovereign	Posted - 2008.01.25 22:03:00 - [200] me thinks this is still a superbly uber idea, i linked it in a post i made earler today to one of the devs in hopes that it will get noticed, also put a link in my sig Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway???? Support Flagships

Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.01.25 23:52:00 - [201] Originally by: Balor Haliquin I am just making a suggestion for eve. It is a concept that I had for a ship. You don't have to like it or even believ that it is solving a problem at all. All I am doing is putting an idea forth for a ship class, nothing more or nothing less. I have also included a set of possible jobs that i might be able to do. As I said before I am working on the concept and will have some new designs up. If you think the designs are bad and useless, then why do you post here. I already understand you think they are useless and unballanced, there is no need to say it in every post. There are some things that leads to good game design, and some that don't. Good game design generally come from these preconditions: 1. There is a niche in the game that is not filled 2. You create content for that niche 3. You make sure that content will not imping on other niche's 4. You make sure it is balanced, with proper advantages/disadvantages Bad game design generally comes from this: 1. "Wouldn't this be great!" You show quite a bit of inventiveness and if I can get you 'on' to how game design works best, then you'll probably make valuable contributions to EVE. I'm very direct when speaking, and if an idea is bad/useless/unbalanced, I use those exact words instead of ***footing around. Don't take my choice of words too seriously, but think about the points I make. Big and better actually isn't.... Originally by:** CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.26 16:55:00 - [202] Note these next few ship designs are not the ones I am going for, they are just to see if I am heading in the right direction. I may even completely remove some versions because the ships are becoming way to similer for their to be a second class. Guess people were right about that plan.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.26 16:55:00 - [203] AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor cost per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/4/8/2 Power Grid: 20500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 7 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8750 Armor Resistances: 60/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Oblivion Hull: Abaddon Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/5/7/2 Power Grid: 19500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 0 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7350 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8150 Armor Resistances: 60/20/25/35s Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Armored Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.26 16:56:00 - [204] CALDARI Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher explosion velocity per lever, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Missile velocity per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/7/5/2 Power Grid: 13500 CPU: 750 Hard points: 0 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Oni Hull: Rohk Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for: great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 14700 CPU: 750 Hard points: 7 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7250 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Siege Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.26 16:58:00 - [205] GALLENTE Name: Athena Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Duvolle Labs Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Since the company is one of New Eden's foremost manufacturers of particle blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/5/7/2 Power Grid: 15450 CPU: 570 Hard points: 7 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8650 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Artimus Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 14150 CPU: 570 Hard points: 5 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8500 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 125m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Information Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.26 17:00:00 - [206] MINMATAR Name: Conflagration Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret arte of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 18500 CPU: 610 Hard points: 7 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7500 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8000 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Electronics V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret arte of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/7/5/2 Power Grid: 18100 CPU: 610 Hard points: 5 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 8150 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Skirmish Warfare Link V
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys Dread Sovereign	Posted - 2008.01.28 14:22:00 - [207] start of the week bump to the top Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway???? Support Flagships
Frances Ducoir Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.28 21:55:00 - [208] only read until 3. page... if it was asked before, sorry. wouldnt these ships make BC based CS obsolete? imo this is bad because we already have lots of ships in eve which are barely used and have no role (eos, ferox, AFs, to a certain degree: ships which rely on RSD + TD, brutix, cyclone, prophecy, gallente eas + recons (totaly useless compared to ecm and since HICs have been introduced) snip Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.29 22:23:00 - [209] Not really considering that the current command ships and battlecruisers are used much more for gank than the command role that CCP intended. The Flagship is rapidly becoming less and less gank oriented.
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys Dread Sovereign	Posted - 2008.01.30 19:27:00 - [210] bump back to the top Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway???? Support Flagships

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