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Titan AE
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Posted - 2004.03.11 10:10:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Titan AE on 11/03/2004 10:13:17 I just know we are not still using drop down menus in a video game to target and attack things. Its just not possible. The game designers are taking their first shot at a video game after being very obviously business software designers. I understand that its difficult to program things, but a rotating target choice at a minimum and some sort of alpha strike key need to exist. Targeting 6 things with a slow lagged out drop down menu in a video game just doesn't cut it. Its very subpar.
Also the propensity of the designers to use teeny tiny icons needs to change. Those little bitty buttons on the ship interface to switch from mod slot to mod slot is really too small. Probably ALL mod slots should be accessable from a direct mouse click. Most games use their neocom for this, that little bar up to the left. I'd suggest adding a second one, that can show all 24 possible mod slots or at least let the user slect which slots they'd like instant mouse control of.
Eve is a very good design for a first design in a MMOG. However the interface is still supremely klunky. Lets fix the basic stuff. Lets get a targeting key at a minimum, something you could click a target on a auto scanner and press, no drop downs. That much at least should be managable.
What does everyone else think? Do you think the drop down menus for fast action things leave something to be desired as well?
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Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.03.11 10:15:00 -
[2]
You know you can use F1 to F8 to activate high slot modules and shift F1 - F8 for med slot and so on. The only problem is the targeting. I wish we had a shortcut for targeting, and reload and basically any action. __________ Capacitor research |
Sun Ra
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Posted - 2004.03.11 10:17:00 -
[3]
Yeah menus are a pain when its lagg
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Mieko
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Posted - 2004.03.11 10:19:00 -
[4]
Boy I'm with you 100% on that. I feel like I'm playing a spread sheet/database. Oh wait....
Think HUD, think tactical display, think fighter*****pit. Menus? Modal menus? What are you Microsoft? Ixnay on the enumays.
m
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PropanElgen
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Posted - 2004.03.11 10:22:00 -
[5]
Quote: You know you can use F1 to F8 to activate high slot modules and shift F1 - F8 for med slot and so on. The only problem is the targeting. I wish we had a shortcut for targeting, and reload and basically any action.
Ahh so thats why you die so quickly? You should have tried alt + F1-F8 to activate your hardeners.
All the angels and the puny men of god looked away... Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
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Titan AE
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Posted - 2004.03.11 10:25:00 -
[6]
Heh I know about the F key controls : ), Stating that all the mods should be instantly clickable doesn't nessisarily imply an unawareness of them. :P
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GlimmerMan
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Posted - 2004.03.11 10:33:00 -
[7]
This is only a problem if you already have a target locked and wish to lock another, otherwise you can just click on a weapon, or it's corresponding F key and you'll get a target cursor and anything you click on in the time it takes to lock the first will be locked. __________________
- GlimmerMan |
Sin Ist
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Posted - 2004.03.11 10:45:00 -
[8]
I disagree with the whole I hate the menu thing. Its a tactial challenge to try and target your opponent the fastest. If wwe had a hotkey for targeting it would get extremely easy and turn this into noob online.
The small icons I like. It gives the game a much nicer and more professional feel. Big icons = ***.
Why not make auto mining and hauling too? Lets make auto fight button too. And oh yeah auto mission run. I am too lazy to click through menu. Its alot tactically harder to target your enemy manualls (especially when who wins combat usually comes down to who targets who first).
Take your whining off the boards. In fact cancel your subscription. It would make me alot happier knowing you noobs were gona and not trying to brainwash CCP into ruining the game. Go play Sesame Street MMO. NOOBS.
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Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.03.11 10:51:00 -
[9]
Quote:
Quote: You know you can use F1 to F8 to activate high slot modules and shift F1 - F8 for med slot and so on. The only problem is the targeting. I wish we had a shortcut for targeting, and reload and basically any action.
Ahh so thats why you die so quickly? You should have tried alt + F1-F8 to activate your hardeners.
I would like a target shortcut button like you hold down "t" and click someone you target him.
Also being quick to target has nothing to do with tactics when you get 3 fps. __________ Capacitor research |
Beringe
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Posted - 2004.03.11 10:52:00 -
[10]
How exactly should the HUD be? I agree that a context menu isn't always favorable (and unfortunately, it is the only way to target when you already have a target, unless you are using a passive targeter).
Problem is, I can't really think of a good replacement. It's not a click-and-fire game. You need to somehow move the mouse onto the target (or the autoscanner, usually), and then select what you want to do with it. And since targeting isn't the only option available, the only thing I can think of is a new hotkey that allows you to target the next ship you click.
Not much of a change. ------------------------------------------- "My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
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Zarquon Beeblebrox
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Posted - 2004.03.11 10:52:00 -
[11]
I would like akey to switch between "show hige/med/low" on my UI.
I hate to switch the active UI with the mouse when i use alt and ctrl F1 to activate.
-- Lady Beeblebrox
Teddybears movies
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Scorpyn
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Posted - 2004.03.11 10:54:00 -
[12]
I agree with this idea, there should be a better way of targeting. There should also be an easy way of removing the active lock (so that all locks remain but non are active) to make it easier to shoot incoming missiles.
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Tsual
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Posted - 2004.03.11 11:01:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Tsual on 11/03/2004 11:04:55 Edited by: Tsual on 11/03/2004 11:02:57
Quote: I disagree with the whole I hate the menu thing. Its a tactial challenge to try and target your opponent the fastest. If wwe had a hotkey for targeting it would get extremely easy and turn this into noob online.
I'm voting for a Hotkey system improvement, at the moment it is not real that good. (perhaps at least make it that one isn't always writing in the chat when typing a normal key) --------------------------------------
Tsual - Miner from faith, frigat junky for life. Ritual of the Qua'nadhar. |
Desdemoniam
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Posted - 2004.03.11 11:07:00 -
[14]
Quote: You know you can use F1 to F8 to activate high slot modules and shift F1 - F8 for med slot and so on. The only problem is the targeting. I wish we had a shortcut for targeting, and reload and basically any action.
You can just press F1 then click on what u want to target that always worked for me sure its not really a shortcut but it does the trick hope this helps :)
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Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.03.11 11:11:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Quote: You know you can use F1 to F8 to activate high slot modules and shift F1 - F8 for med slot and so on. The only problem is the targeting. I wish we had a shortcut for targeting, and reload and basically any action.
You can just press F1 then click on what u want to target that always worked for me sure its not really a shortcut but it does the trick hope this helps :)
That doesn't really work when i want to target 2 ships. I press F1 and click the first ship and then I click F2 and just fire again on the first ship. __________ Capacitor research |
Sharadar
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Posted - 2004.03.11 11:15:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Sharadar on 11/03/2004 11:16:51 Edited for spelling
This one should be easy enough - Put tiny tiny icons on the scanner window next to every item on the auto scanner. If you want to target something, just click the tiny scanner button next to the object, to unlock, click the unlock button that replaced the target button. Users can define 5 action groups that appear as icons (user selected of course) next to the target icon. You could set one to be 'keep at least 30Km away from this target', another 'activate modules in hi power slots 1,2, and 4'. These actions can also be bound to keys that default their targets to the currently selected target, so you dont have to press the tiny buttons. Users can also bind a key to the action 'target [x] nearest hostile ships'
Now you can target everything with a single keypress, or individual targets using the scanner with a single click. You can perform an alpha strike using single key or mouse click, or any group module action on any targeted ship.
Thoughts?
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Titan AE
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Posted - 2004.03.11 11:41:00 -
[17]
That is a interesting idea, it seems any improvement revolves around the auto scanner. Be it Icons on it or merely a target key. As far as having to press a weapon key to lock something I'd still say that is clunky. I would expect I wouldn't have to hunt around with my camera to find something to lock as well. I'd say either some sort of rotate objects to target button, or just make that drop down menu on the auto scanner have control buttons assigned to common functions like windows does. You know, a alt then something command based on the spelling of the features in the list. Just make it bindable to other keys and we are set.
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Knefru Khamen
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Posted - 2004.03.11 11:57:00 -
[18]
Indeed, with the level of sophistication that most of this game demonstrates it is puzzling that we still must maneuver through dropdown menus and click on pixel-wide buttons. I would like to have quick access to all three slots and also the ability to program routes to minimize the drudgery of travel. ---
Ad honorem, Knefru Khamen
Omnia mea mecum porto. |
Moah
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Posted - 2004.03.11 11:57:00 -
[19]
Quote: You know you can use F1 to F8 to activate high slot modules and shift F1 - F8 for med slot and so on. The only problem is the targeting. I wish we had a shortcut for targeting, and reload and basically any action.
I think most of the eve players know that. If they would work 100%, itr would be a nice feature, but they dont worl allways like i want..
- [ALT] + [F5] = my eve CTD - [ALT] + [F1] to [F8] = In a laggy fight, when i want to press ALT+F1 for the shield booster, it usualy activates/deactivates High 1, and not Med 1
So in the end you allways have to klick on this little little little button for med slots to be sure that the module you want to activate IS active.
I love that idea with a view over all of your slots, like a fitting screen
Fancy. |
Reiisha
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Posted - 2004.03.11 12:01:00 -
[20]
Quote: I disagree with the whole I hate the menu thing. Its a tactial challenge to try and target your opponent the fastest. If wwe had a hotkey for targeting it would get extremely easy and turn this into noob online.
The small icons I like. It gives the game a much nicer and more professional feel. Big icons = ***.
Why not make auto mining and hauling too? Lets make auto fight button too. And oh yeah auto mission run. I am too lazy to click through menu. Its alot tactically harder to target your enemy manualls (especially when who wins combat usually comes down to who targets who first).
Take your whining off the boards. In fact cancel your subscription. It would make me alot happier knowing you noobs were gona and not trying to brainwash CCP into ruining the game. Go play Sesame Street MMO. NOOBS.
Seems like no one read through this. She's right you know..... a border should be drawn somewhere. IMHO, the current ui is good as it is. I've never had any trouble with it, save for low framerates when trying to target, but that's it.
Gamersland.nl, DE site voor PC gaming! |
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Zarquon Beeblebrox
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Posted - 2004.03.11 12:02:00 -
[21]
I scripting language would be cool.
Make a few scripts.
In fight: Activate evasive manuvering alpha Activate attack sequence bravo; Deactive ecasive manuvering alpa; Activate approche vector lima;
(make it perl please) hehe =)
-- Lady Beeblebrox
Teddybears movies
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Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.03.11 12:05:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Quote: You know you can use F1 to F8 to activate high slot modules and shift F1 - F8 for med slot and so on. The only problem is the targeting. I wish we had a shortcut for targeting, and reload and basically any action.
I think most of the eve players know that. If they would work 100%, itr would be a nice feature, but they dont worl allways like i want..
- [ALT] + [F5] = my eve CTD - [ALT] + [F1] to [F8] = In a laggy fight, when i want to press ALT+F1 for the shield booster, it usualy activates/deactivates High 1, and not Med 1
So in the end you allways have to klick on this little little little button for med slots to be sure that the module you want to activate IS active.
I love that idea with a view over all of your slots, like a fitting screen
On my graphic card the alt-F5 is used to switch to 2 displays or something like that which makes my screen all screwy. When I started flying a bb I started to bind alt-1 and so on to activating med slot items __________ Capacitor research |
Bulk Paint
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Posted - 2004.03.11 12:12:00 -
[23]
If someone's shooting missiles at you and you want to shoot them down with guns, you can only do so provided you've not got anything else locked.
It seems a little strange that a rule (click weapon then click target) would change after the first use.
So, some way of 'forcing' a weapon to attempt to lock and fire at a new target would be nice. Either that or the right-click targetting of missiles.
Of course, if being able to target missiles is a bug anyway then it should be fixed. Or made a feature, possibly with a new low-slot, advanced targetter module. ------------------------------------------------------------ Bulk Paint Lost In Space |
Lucre
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Posted - 2004.03.11 12:39:00 -
[24]
Agree entirely the HUD could use serious improvement. It's not like there's any shortage of screen real-estate down there, so why do we need to toggle between displays of high, med and lo slots?
Thing that probably bugs me most in everyday use, though, is the lack of indication when you come out of warp. And the consequent struggle to start targeting as quickly as possible without falling foul of the "cannot target whilst still in warp" popup. If a ship's displayed on the scanner (and in range) then you should be able to target it! Or, if you can't target it yet, then it shouldn't be on the scanner!
Related scanner issue - CCP can we *please* have a scanner status light for 'targeting in progress'? We have one for 'target locked' (which is very useful) but when things are moving around in the list (e.g. as relative ranges change) it can be impossible to tell which ones you've started target locking on!
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Severus Trajan
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Posted - 2004.03.11 13:28:00 -
[25]
Quote: Of course, if being able to target missiles is a bug anyway then it should be fixed.
Yes, I believe the devs stated it is unintended in a recent CSM chat.
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Khali Nephtys
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Posted - 2004.03.11 13:36:00 -
[26]
User mappable control keys, why on earth does eve not have this? Allright well it does after a fashion, but they are bound to the alt and ctrl keys, believe it or not some people don't have huge rubbery fingers that can stretch to press ctrl or alt fkeys. Of course even when you do map them on the current system they default the next time you start eve.
Dropdown menus, for maps and navigation hmm I suppose they are ok'ish, but for combat commands? I think the UI in Eve is not very intuitive at all, and once lag kicks in it becomes a nightmare. I can't even begin to express how frustrating it is to activate a module, then find you have deactivated it again because of lag, and sit there looking at the orange icon for ten seconds.
I thought in combat we were meant to be fighting with other players, not our UI? To sum it up my feelings are that Eve will probably be a great game when it's finished....
Khabs am pehkt...........seize the stars.
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2004.03.11 13:54:00 -
[27]
I want voice activation, or a screen pen. Where i say,"computer activate my high 1 slot on Harisdrop, orbit at 25km at 100% speed with medium slot 1 and 2 auto repeat." That would solve everything. Or have a leader with teamspeak give my commands to my ship so I can get a beer out of the frig.
Oh could I get a pizza while you are at it. --------------------------
Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Tsual
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Posted - 2004.03.11 14:02:00 -
[28]
For a PvP game the gui is complex and doesn't fit to the we control ships by neural interface background. --------------------------------------
Tsual - Miner from faith, frigat junky for life. Ritual of the Qua'nadhar. |
Xavier Hawk
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Posted - 2004.03.11 14:19:00 -
[29]
This is something that should have been implemented in BETA 4, or atleast by Armageddon Day...
Anyhow, I think the whole community is in agreement. Please give us some reload / targeting hot keys...
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Mallus Kulov
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Posted - 2004.03.11 15:28:00 -
[30]
Quote: I.... Its a tactial challenge to try and target your opponent the fastest. If wwe had a hotkey for targeting it would get extremely easy and turn this into noob online.
quote]
As if the targeting in eve wasnt easy enough...you train skills, you click a few buttons and let the game calculate your hits...eve is a no0b game and you just got had. Crawl back into your hole.
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