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Barra Cheveyo
Gallente Stratos Styx
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Posted - 2007.11.29 18:32:00 -
[91]
Are these the prats Mynas was talking about?
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Friedrick Psitalon
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.29 18:36:00 -
[92]
I won't dismiss your remarks, but you'll pardon me if I take issue and refute them:
"We trickle in to the POS over a couple of hours"
... and yet some of our foes specifically comment on how quickly we put a reaction group together. Clearly, your perception is not the only one available, nor the authority on the subject. And do you really wait in our system for a couple of HOURS for a fight? How determined!
"Our only tactic is simplistic zerg warfare"
.... but strangely, we've fielded completely different styles of fleets many times. It looks like a zerg to you because when four or five times as many ships show up, no matter what they do, it looks like a zerg to you.
"You only go on the offensive to attack POS's, or when there's 30+ in your roaming gang."
You'll find the reason for that is loosely tied in with our "Good Guy" self-imposed semi-image. We don't go pick trouble, and when we do move against someone or something, it's because we've been significantly annoyed - and when you significantly annoy 1600 members, well, look at that: they all tend to show up.
"Your only tactic is brute force and you don't use it until you have enough of it, and until then you wait, docked."
Well, if you intend to use brute force as your tactic, it would be a bit silly to try to use it until you have enough, no? :lol: I'm sure the Recon gangs we used on the former owners of JQV night after night were just our imagination. Ah, but let us not forget: We fit nothing but cloaks and stabs, too, so we can dismiss them.
The funny thing is that quite a few of the people who fight us really don't agree with you, oh mysterious convenient unmarked alt. You, like us, and like them, have your own conceptions of the world and that's your business. If I may quote, though:
"Quantity has a quality all its own."
BRUCE's ability to administrate a stable, healthy, and happy alliance of our size is a PVP skill all its own - and we are not going to be shy about leveraging that administrative talent to beat you over the head with the quantity it brings.
Good hunting and thanks for the reasonable discussion.
LONG LIVE THE BRUCES!
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Sunabi
Caldari Defiance Corp Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.29 18:39:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Sunabi on 29/11/2007 18:40:10 I'd agree with NotMad that BRUCE's focus is on empire-building rather than feeding our bloodthirst every single night. I'd also say we're not bad at it. We have the resources to get rid of anyone who attacks us (so much so that they complain about it on the forums ), and if we find ourselves out-gunned, we don't simply dock or fold up and go back to empire. We keep fighting and learn from it.
Just my opinion though
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Notmad Max
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Posted - 2007.11.29 18:45:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon I won't dismiss your remarks, but you'll pardon me if I take issue and refute them:
"We trickle in to the POS over a couple of hours"
... and yet some of our foes specifically comment on how quickly we put a reaction group together. Clearly, your perception is not the only one available, nor the authority on the subject. And do you really wait in our system for a couple of HOURS for a fight? How determined!
"Our only tactic is simplistic zerg warfare"
.... but strangely, we've fielded completely different styles of fleets many times. It looks like a zerg to you because when four or five times as many ships show up, no matter what they do, it looks like a zerg to you.
"You only go on the offensive to attack POS's, or when there's 30+ in your roaming gang."
You'll find the reason for that is loosely tied in with our "Good Guy" self-imposed semi-image. We don't go pick trouble, and when we do move against someone or something, it's because we've been significantly annoyed - and when you significantly annoy 1600 members, well, look at that: they all tend to show up.
"Your only tactic is brute force and you don't use it until you have enough of it, and until then you wait, docked."
Well, if you intend to use brute force as your tactic, it would be a bit silly to try to use it until you have enough, no? :lol: I'm sure the Recon gangs we used on the former owners of JQV night after night were just our imagination. Ah, but let us not forget: We fit nothing but cloaks and stabs, too, so we can dismiss them.
The funny thing is that quite a few of the people who fight us really don't agree with you, oh mysterious convenient unmarked alt. You, like us, and like them, have your own conceptions of the world and that's your business. If I may quote, though:
"Quantity has a quality all its own."
BRUCE's ability to administrate a stable, healthy, and happy alliance of our size is a PVP skill all its own - and we are not going to be shy about leveraging that administrative talent to beat you over the head with the quantity it brings.
Good hunting and thanks for the reasonable discussion.
LONG LIVE THE BRUCES!
Thanks for bringing up alt again despite your charade at having a 'reasonable discussion' I explained I don't have a choice. It's not a weapon to be used against me if you really are trying to have a reasonable discussion. Judge by the content of the post perhaps and not the altiness.
On what you said, that's great, a vast improvement from the assertion from manas that the blobbing just kinda happens and is not really the intent. You admit you blob. I want to know why, blob fights are laggy and horrible - your own pilots constantly complain about the lag. Learn to fight with smaller gangs, and then when you do blob up you'll be many times more effective, because each pilot has some level of autonomy, is capable of making basic decisions on his own.
I still disagree with much of what you say, but a lot will come down to a matter of opinion no point forever arguing over intangibles.
Still one thing I don't think you 'dismissed', and this is really the key point:
"you let people walk all over you until you can blob up."
and then you come and talk about pvp on the forums as if you all love it so much. Maybe you do. If you all loved it on an individual level, your pilots would come screaming out of the blocks when a fight is there waiting for them. Instead they will go screaming to the nearest POS and wait for orders. Those are sheep not warriors.
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Friedrick Psitalon
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.29 18:50:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Friedrick Psitalon on 29/11/2007 18:53:05 BRUCE is an empire-builder. Until you understand everything that is a part of that, you will not understand us. The differences between an empire-builder alliance and a warmonger corporation/alliance is far deeper than most "pew pew" afficianados appreciate.
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Mynas Atoch
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.11.29 19:18:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Barra Cheveyo Are these the prats Mynas was talking about?
...
No idea. While they were telling Bruce and MC how we should fight, I was in the MC light raiding gang fighting Bruce in and around PC9. No quarter was given. No smack either.
I didn't hear any complaints on our TS, nor do I expect there were many on their Vent.
Myn
Sir Molle says : Mynas is Dead!
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Astal Atlar
Caldari Bulgarian Experienced Crackers Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2007.11.29 19:42:00 -
[97]
Quote: ell, if you intend to use brute force as your tactic, it would be a bit silly to try to use it until you have enough, no? :lol: I'm sure the Recon gangs we used on the former owners of JQV night after night were just our imagination. Ah, but let us not forget: We fit nothing but cloaks and stabs, too, so we can dismiss them.
Recon gangs that stood cloacked all the time or run when 2 of us jumped. Or as your pilots ran even when accepting 1v1 fights to death. Oss was going to die even if you didnt attacked we could have hold but holding space for carebears is useless.And syndikate is learning step.The true play is in o.o in regions in fontaine and ect. Sot is blue to us but not mine corp,beacause i wrote in support of our friends Notr,i like this soon we will get free time and we will come to visit syndikate again. I hope your fittings will be better this time. Seeing dampners on blackbird and ect really make me think do i fight noobs in low sec and empire or alliance that claim to learn and be good in pvp. Bulgarian experienced *****ers - Sons of Tangra |
General StarScream
THE DECEPTIC0NS
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Posted - 2007.11.29 20:18:00 -
[98]
Ye this is a strange call from Bob.
Bruce will crush ya. Sig Removed. Dont use inappropriate language in sigs -Kaemonn |
Notmad Max
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Posted - 2007.11.29 20:40:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Notmad Max on 29/11/2007 20:40:51
Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon Edited by: Friedrick Psitalon on 29/11/2007 18:53:05 BRUCE is an empire-builder. Until you understand everything that is a part of that, you will not understand us. The differences between an empire-builder alliance and a warmonger corporation/alliance is far deeper than most "pew pew" afficianados appreciate.
Oh I know what you are, don't assume because i speak from one perspective I havent comprehensively experiencced another . I don't see where the pompousness and self-satisfaction comes from an 'empire-builder' living in non-sov space. That has always been my problem, what I said from the start - is that Bruce appear to have such a high opinion of themselves, talk as if they are pvpers when you yourself admit there is another agenda entirely, and yet have live in space for a long time now where none of the end-game an 'empire builder' seeks is even really possible. The only empire in Syndicate is Intaki Syndicate. This is not going to change.
Anyway despite all I've said: continue to have fun, that is undoubtably the most important thing of all. Me out o/
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Kyguard
Fire Mandrill
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Posted - 2007.11.29 20:49:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon
The funny thing is that quite a few of the people who fight us really don't agree with you, oh mysterious convenient unmarked alt. You, like us, and like them, have your own conceptions of the world and that's your business. If I may quote, though:
Funnier thing is that a lot of people who fight you agree with what he's saying, but most of them don't feel the need to argue back and forth everytime you come and sing tall tales here ;) But hey you stick to what you think and we stick to what we think right?
While you're here though, let me ask - why are your pilots under orders not to forward killmails where NPCs laid the final blow to any FIREM members? -
Latest Video |
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hisgoatness
Calista Industries Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.29 20:54:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Astal Atlar Well manas your speaking is crap. You have only 1 tactic and it is blob.In even numbers you never fight,yeah your cloackers may sit all day cloacked in the systems doing nothing. Oss we always went and fought even when it was 4-1,this is the difference,and you should teach your people to use better fittings. Losing mothership in your own system only you can do this. Or with 30 outbreak to stay 150 docked with oss gang in your pc9 battling. I did not and will never respect such attitude.Yes we are in fontaine now here at least we have honourable enemies like Hun reloaded,they come bring the numbers and fight,lose ships reship and fight again. My respect goes for them,this is what this game is meant to be fun. I hope mc have their fun against you.
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Lazuran
Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2007.11.29 21:01:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Yuto Kang
The sad reality is, you choose a target from the GBC and the whole GBC comes after you and you have to face the blob. You go after a RSF alliance and you have the other blob on your doorstep. So really, how many options are left for corps who want to have fun doing pew pew and avoid the blob and annoying POS warfare?
so go shoot triumvirate or some other "neutral" party in this war...
"...been designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Imagine a handful of repair drones pouring from the carebear's mouth. Now imagine they have um, nothing." -Unknown Hel redesigner (2007) |
Sunabi
Caldari Defiance Corp Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.29 21:04:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Kyguard While you're here though, let me ask - why are your pilots under orders not to forward killmails where NPCs laid the final blow to any FIREM members?
Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure we're supposed to. If someone refuses, talk to their CEO.
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Galtan Deus
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.29 21:09:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Sunabi
Originally by: Kyguard While you're here though, let me ask - why are your pilots under orders not to forward killmails where NPCs laid the final blow to any FIREM members?
Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure we're supposed to. If someone refuses, talk to their CEO.
Agree - perhaps those who refuse are confusing it with our private killboard policy?
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Coren Skyus
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.29 21:11:00 -
[105]
I just wanted to post in an epic thread which is sure to become historical for BRUCE; one that we will look back on in 3 months and laugh.
Long Live BRUCE!
[now back to your regularly-scheduled forum pvp] ...................
Image is Everything! |
evoli rehathe
The Blackstone Group Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.29 21:22:00 -
[106]
Bagdad Bob!!
buttes.
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Ankarama
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.11.29 21:52:00 -
[107]
To Astal Atlar:
If OSS was so eager for fighting and BRUCE was a bunch of noobs, then why did OSS die and BRUCE took over their space???
Oh sure, you self-destructed...thats way better to admit than a "bunch of noobs" beat you.
All the big guys i see posting say BRUCE brings out a good fight.If organizing first before attacking is a "blob","noobish", whatever, then you sir are the pinnacle of fleet commanders out there.....i salute you....NOT.
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YarrDaddy
Minmatar Diamonds on my neck
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Posted - 2007.11.29 22:18:00 -
[108]
Edited by: YarrDaddy on 29/11/2007 22:17:59 Things we learned. Bruce are noobs. MC are da best. OSS lolz. and attacking noobs in syndicate never ends like you think it will.
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Karenzi
No Trademark Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.29 22:21:00 -
[109]
gl hf mc, ev0, outbreak.
Fly by TA anytime youre bored.
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Niskin
Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.29 22:25:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Notmad Max I don't see where the pompousness and self-satisfaction comes from an 'empire-builder' living in non-sov space. That has always been my problem, what I said from the start - is that Bruce appear to have such a high opinion of themselves, talk as if they are pvpers when you yourself admit there is another agenda entirely, and yet have live in space for a long time now where none of the end-game an 'empire builder' seeks is even really possible. The only empire in Syndicate is Intaki Syndicate. This is not going to change.
Anyway despite all I've said: continue to have fun, that is undoubtably the most important thing of all. Me out o/
I think this pompousness is just a mistaken perception. There are plenty of things to be proud of in an alliance besides PvP skill. BRUCE is a large alliance made up of people with common goals. We work together very well and hold opportunities for learning in high regard. Most learning opportunities come in the form of combat but not all. Our size and our experience level has grown and we continue to meet the goals we set. This results in a great sense of pride and enjoyment that can't be taken away by the loss of a ship or a battle. It doesn't fade in the face of a difficult opponent because the more difficult the opponent the more opportunities for learning there will be.
This is why people don't understand us, we're not in it to win any specific fight. We're here to accomplish the goals we've set and have fun doing so. Yes, we are an empire building alliance that is closing in on one year of living in Syndicate. Before that we were an empire building alliance living in low-sec. When we accomplished our goals in Aeschee we moved here and continued on. That is how we have worked and how we will continue to work.
We will continue to have fun and I hope that you do too along with all of our past/present/future opponents. o/ ------------- I am the n00b that time forgot. |
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Karenzi
No Trademark Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.29 22:29:00 -
[111]
^^ very true
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Yuto Kang
Asgard Schiffswerften Ev0ke
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Posted - 2007.11.29 22:53:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Lazuran
Originally by: Yuto Kang
The sad reality is, you choose a target from the GBC and the whole GBC comes after you and you have to face the blob. You go after a RSF alliance and you have the other blob on your doorstep. So really, how many options are left for corps who want to have fun doing pew pew and avoid the blob and annoying POS warfare?
so go shoot triumvirate or some other "neutral" party in this war...
What makes you think we don't? Check out killboard and you'll see we killed 9 BRUCE ships in the last couple of days, but 17 pilots of The Reckoning (incl. a mothership), a dozen pilots of the Red Alliance, 15 Sons of Tangra, 24 Huzzah Federation ships and so on. I don't know how to put it in any other way, but: we don't give a feck who we shoot. Only thing we try to avoid is blog, lagfest and POS war.
So, between you and me, here's how to defend your carebear home system against Ev0ke: put 100 pilots on each gate, with anchored bubbles, a few dozen carriers with assigned fighters sitting at the POS force fields and all ships on the gates with fielded drones, to increase lag on jump-in. ___________________________
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Ab Tallen
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.29 22:54:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Ab Tallen on 29/11/2007 23:00:06
Originally by: Notmad Max I don't see where the pompousness and self-satisfaction comes from an 'empire-builder' living in non-sov space. That has always been my problem, what I said from the start - is that Bruce appear to have such a high opinion of themselves, talk as if they are pvpers when you yourself admit there is another agenda entirely, and yet have live in space for a long time now where none of the end-game an 'empire builder' seeks is even really possible.
BRUCE as an alliance has been started from scratch roughly 14 months ago, mostly by players that had been in the game for well under a year at the time. It is not built from the remains of an earlier entity in EVE. As such - to my knowledge - BRUCE has had no major assets, old-world T2 BPOs or whatever established alliances may consider standard resources in the game. (Nevertheless, the alliance can be proud to have attracted older players and corporations over the time, and has made excellent people stay instead of going elsewhere.)
Yes, we are careful. Yes, we try to avoid fights that are suited to severely disrupt our development. No, we (the pilots) don't always like to wait until enough comrades have joined in, or an opportunity has been identified. But by that, we have come a long way from nothing but a bunch of highly motivated players to where we are now - even if it is "just" Syndicate at this time.
The alliance has gone to Syndicate in the full knowledge that it will be an episode, and that we will take the next step when we feel ready. Be assured that the time has been used well.
Note that the above is my personal impression from a very limited point of view within the alliance.
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Crovan
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.11.29 23:01:00 -
[114]
Originally by: General StarScream Ye this is a strange call from Bob.
Bruce will crush ya.
Yeah, so strange it's almost like they didn't make it.
To Niskin, gf to you too (I'm tha dictor in your post).
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TresheR
Fire Mandrill
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Posted - 2007.11.29 23:51:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Galtan Deus
Originally by: Sunabi
Originally by: Kyguard While you're here though, let me ask - why are your pilots under orders not to forward killmails where NPCs laid the final blow to any FIREM members?
Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure we're supposed to. If someone refuses, talk to their CEO.
Agree - perhaps those who refuse are confusing it with our private killboard policy?
Sorry for quoting you anyway, but every single time an npc gets the mail when I kill someone from Bruce, my polite request to forward the mail is either declined or ignored completely.
This started a few months ago, and originates from one of the main Bruce FC's. (He actually confirmed it in local.)
Luckily for us, from time to time a friendly Bruce member sends us a mail copied from your killboard.
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Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2007.11.30 01:34:00 -
[116]
Eh Tresher that's part of their PR. Despite objections to the contrary they seem to be very worried about their public image to the rest of eve and are undergoing many efforts to revision/rebrand themselves. If you have trouble getting any killmails send me a note I have several dozen contacts in bruce who are sick of it who would be more than happy to forward them along. In fact i'm guessing half of the alt-corp posts in this thread are from bruce members themselves. sorta a love/hate thing I guess.
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Seideberg
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.30 01:39:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Seideberg on 30/11/2007 01:39:25 Tresher, as I said in my Evemail an hour or so ago, which you may not have received yet if you are logged off, we would be happy to share any killmail in which you or your corp appear. Please convo or evemail me and let me know which killmails you need and I will send them and in the future, should an NPC get the final blow, let me know.
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Emo Thug
Rage And Tantrums
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Posted - 2007.11.30 01:49:00 -
[118]
Quote: first of all I know this is an alt etc - i dont have a choice. Ignoring what I have to say arbitrarily makes you a fool in my opinion, maybe itll be deleted before you read it.
Anyhow... I have fought against you many times, and the only real problem I have with Bruce is their own perception of themselves. We have good fights, Bruce do bring it, but their perception of most battles I've been in with them is often extremely self-congratulatory for really nothing much. Add to this the classic excuse "what are we supposed to do if we get 100 Xs" - of course if you get 100 Xs, you put 100 in gang - But this does not represent the entire truth of the matter. It's not like you get 100 xs in 1 minute as an aimmediate response to an incursion. You just make your opponent wait and wait and wait while you get 100 Xs.
Why do they wait? Because unlike you they are there for the fight, not necessarily to try and win at all costs. They really are there not to build empires, but to fight against the odds and win.
You say you don't have a choice, when actually you will wait and wait and wait UNTIL you have overwhelming numbers and then fight. I've watched a 20 man hostile gang sit in PC9, while bruce pilot after pilot after pilot trickles into your pos to form up over the course of hours. You make it sound as if blobbing is simply a side effect of your size, when the reality is you use it deliberately as a tactic.
Don't get me wrong - it's a legitimate tactic. However you try and make it sound as if it 'just happens', when in reality it is something you quite clearly play towards.
So you use the correct strategy and fight on your own terms, and usually your opponent will allow you to blob up over the course of 45 min+, and wait for you to do so not because they are just dumb, or they don't see what you are up to, but simply because they love a good fight
I have not once in months of fighting seen that attitude on an individual level from Bruce's pilots. You only ever go on the offensive to take out POSes, or in a roaming gang of 30+ with very very few exceptions. Otherwise you just let people walk all over you until you can blob them, and then you seem to expect some kind of respect for that behaviour?
Bruce win their significant victories predominantly through brute force, and if they don't have brute force they will wait, docked, until it arrives. You say you use a lot of different tactics - well as your neighbour I don't see it, and quite honestly sick of hearing how varied and great your tactics are - they are simplistic zerg warfare.
When everyone who has fought you seems to agree on this, even when those parties are enemies amongst themselves, perhaps you can at least accept you might be wrong about this.
This man speaks the truth. I understand you position of alt needing but I wish I knew who you were so I could buy you a beer.
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FOFOFOF
CRAPSTORM
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Posted - 2007.11.30 02:22:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Emo Thug This man speaks the truth. I understand you position of alt needing but I wish I knew who you were so I could buy you a beer.
Good call emo, using beer to blow the alt cover... nasty
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John Donnerjack
Happy hOur Mining and industry Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.30 03:22:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Astal Atlar I doubt will be so fun. Last time outbreak was there bruce huged the npc stations and ect Also ejected from their ships it was way funny. Or asked us the former oss to go and save them..
For the love of Pete. You lost. You don't live there anymore. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but just LET IT GO.
*sig fixed, sorry for the trouble*
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