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Mike'P	Posted - 2007.11.10 00:06:00 - [1] Hi guys, I figured it out tonight, to which I am sure there will be a whole host of 'DOH' posts and probably a couple accusing me of being lazy... When you typo a buy order, you can leave it five mins and then correct your mistake. When you typo a sell order (when modifying) you lose the game. I've had it happen to me, and I've had strange low buys happen when it has happened to other people. So, my question is this: is there some game mechanic regarding sell orders that are below the current highest buy order that make this a valid mechanism ? Cheers, Mike.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.10 00:45:00 - [2] Originally by: Mike'P When you typo a buy order, you can leave it five mins and then correct your mistake. When you typo a sell order (when modifying) you lose the game. Depending on the "typo" there are lots of ways to lose the game. If you modify your buy order and put in an extra zero, provided the ISK is in your wallet, it can have just as bad of an effect as missing a zero in your modified sell order. It is not just us traders who suffer from death-by-typo. Try pressing F2 instead of F1, shoot your alliance mate in empire space instead of remote rep'ing and CONCORD will make sure that you lose the game for that typo too. There are not a lot of games that you win when you make mistakes. Yes, it is annoying. However, if CCP modified the game to prevent you from making those mistakes, you would just find new mistakes to make instead. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.10 03:18:00 - [3] The greater the chance of loss the greater the victory when you succeed. But I'm glad we got another thread on this topic Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.10 03:42:00 - [4] Are you saying that if you place an order for a silly price it actually makes you pay that silly price? That's very scary if true.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.10 03:59:00 - [5] Originally by: FastLearner Are you saying that if you place an order for a silly price it actually makes you pay that silly price? That's very scary if true. Be careful, people are very bad with picking up sarcasm on these forums I've noticed. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Hanoi Hana Mitsubishi Group	Posted - 2007.11.10 04:43:00 - [6] Edited by: Hanoi Hana on 10/11/2007 04:42:51 Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: FastLearner Are you saying that if you place an order for a silly price it actually makes you pay that silly price? That's very scary if true. Be careful, people are very bad with picking up sarcasm on these forums I've noticed. That wasn't sarcasm, that was just plain misleading! It mislead me.... :)
Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2007.11.10 11:11:00 - [7] Originally by: Mike'P So, my question is this: is there some game mechanic regarding sell orders that are below the current highest buy order that make this a valid mechanism ? Modify order dialog needs confirmation window when some fishy price is entered. Like sell/buy order dialogs have them. On the other side it learns you to be careful and adds extra risk to market.
Non Zero Solipsism Syndrome Consulting	Posted - 2007.11.10 14:10:00 - [8] Typos goes through even if you OK the box. CCP brags about the game having a "real-life" economy, so it's a shame how many flaws the current trade tools have! These tools would never made it for a long time in the real world economy. Many other parts of the game have gotten much love, but this part seem to be ignored, and I fear it would be for a long time. However I think 99% of the players would welcome improvements in this area and actually I think this would be less work than many other issues. ----------------------------- Solipsism Syndrome Consulting Got Audacious Goals or Ideas? - please contact us for career opportunities or contracting.
Mr McCargo UNIVERSAL HAULAGE Dread Sovereign	Posted - 2007.11.10 14:41:00 - [9] Originally by: Robacz Originally by: Mike'P So, my question is this: is there some game mechanic regarding sell orders that are below the current highest buy order that make this a valid mechanism ? Modify order dialog needs confirmation window when some fishy price is entered. Like sell/buy order dialogs have them. On the other side it learns you to be careful and adds extra risk to market. There was no warning dialog box for me, when I lost 600m by modifying a buy order. I've also made a typo, while modifying sell orders, but luckily I didn't lose much. I won't update my orders, while I'm sleepy, anymore.
Ricdic's Hoe	Posted - 2007.11.10 15:45:00 - [10] Originally by: Non Zero CCP brags about the game having a "real-life" economy, so it's a shame how many flaws the current trade tools have! I don't see how. If you work for a shop, and send out a brochure to your clients. If you have a typo selling a new CD player for $10 instead of $100 legally you have to charge the advertised price. This is probably different depending on the country. But really,think back 1-2 years in Eve. There were no confirmation boxes ever. If you made a mistake, bad luck. Sure, people lost money. But it taught people to be wary, to double check things before buying them. Really whats next? Will all contracts also have an average price associated with them, and conveniently tell you their value so the client gets their hand held with that too? Yes, I have no problem with CCP fixing this sooner or later. But I definetly don't think it should be on the top of their To-Do list. Let them fix it so alliance members can use my POS copy slots once again (That was removed when buggy rather than fixed), imo thats a bigger priority.
Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2007.11.10 15:48:00 - [11] Originally by: Mr McCargo Originally by: Robacz Originally by: Mike'P So, my question is this: is there some game mechanic regarding sell orders that are below the current highest buy order that make this a valid mechanism ? Modify order dialog needs confirmation window when some fishy price is entered. Like sell/buy order dialogs have them. On the other side it learns you to be careful and adds extra risk to market. There was no warning dialog box for me, when I lost 600m by modifying a buy order. I've also made a typo, while modifying sell orders, but luckily I didn't lose much. I won't update my orders, while I'm sleepy, anymore. Yes that is how I meant it - the confirmation window needs to be added to order modify dialog. Sorry for confusion.
Letias Caldari Teikoku Trade Conglomerate Visions of Warfare	Posted - 2007.11.10 23:49:00 - [12] If they added a box for modifying i think still a lot of people would have ticked it to not show again. As if you are buying low enough the box will pop up, I know i would get it popping up 90% of my buy orders.
Jennai Aliastra	Posted - 2007.11.13 02:22:00 - [13] Originally by: Letias If they added a box for modifying i think still a lot of people would have ticked it to not show again. As if you are buying low enough the box will pop up, I know i would get it popping up 90% of my buy orders. they should just let you set the threshold for the message. I don't need a warning when I place an order 50% off average - that's the entire reason I'm placing the order. I do want a warning if the order is 500% off average because that's probably a typo. yesterday someone typoed a buy order for dominix in Verge Vendor and paid 491,710,012 isk.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.13 02:40:00 - [14] Originally by: Jennai yesterday someone typoed a buy order for dominix in Verge Vendor and paid 491,710,012 isk. It's great, isn't it. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.13 04:19:00 - [15] Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Jennai yesterday someone typoed a buy order for dominix in Verge Vendor and paid 491,710,012 isk. It's great, isn't it. Yeh, the beauty of that mistake, is that they likely won't make it again. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Taikun Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.11.13 07:01:00 - [16] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Jennai yesterday someone typoed a buy order for dominix in Verge Vendor and paid 491,710,012 isk. It's great, isn't it. Yeh, the beauty of that mistake, is that they likely won't make it again. It is quite possible they have quit the game in complete disgust. CCP needs to fire the person who has allowed this joke of coding to continue. They need to find the coder in charge of that aspect of the game and fire them ASAP. They need to post a picture of them and their family that will have a crappy christmas because mommy/daddy sucked so much at their jobs they got bounced for being useless and lazy. I would PAY extra in cold hard US cash for a copy email to me. I would celebrate and dance backflips in the street knowing this individual will be unemployed, their 'partners' will eventualy leave them and their children will grow up ashamed of the drit they foul with their very presence. THAT is how stongly I feel about useless coders sitting on this problem for YEARS. I am DEEPLY intolerent of poor service, and whoever allowed THIS situation to continue for so very long frankly... well I would not shed a tear if they died and were replaced. It would be a good thing for this game, and the people in it to have these individuals and their ineptitude irradicated from the earth. Any questions? Taikun ----------------------------------- For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.13 07:47:00 - [17] Christ Taikun you take drama queen to a whole new level. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Taikun Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.11.13 07:49:00 - [18] Originally by: Ricdic Christ Taikun I like that Moniker. Hope it sticks. Taikun ----------------------------------- For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good.
Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2007.11.13 10:32:00 - [19] Originally by: Taikun Any questions? Have you taken your medicine today?
zzbooks	Posted - 2007.11.13 10:51:00 - [20] "It is quite possible they have quit the game in complete disgust." It is quite possible they have been banned by CCP as well Isk sellers often buy things for a lot too much and sell things for a lot too little. If you make mistakes like this then you may be banned.
Molari Gracie ironwood ink	Posted - 2007.11.13 18:55:00 - [21] I'm sure most of us who are active in the market have made and lost millions (or billions) on typos, accidental mouse clicks, and scams. I almost paid 150 million for a 1 run Myrmidon BPC once because I didn't read carefully enough. It was an auction and I petitioned before it ended, having realized my mistake. (Only to get the "CCPFU") Fortunately, some other poor bastard outbid me. But why blame CCP for our own inadequacies? You can do the same thing in real life, with real consequences. Add a zero to your stock buy order on Etrade sometime and see if you get your money back!
Mike'P	Posted - 2007.11.14 14:14:00 - [22] Figured something else out last night, but this time I've got a serious suggestion to remedy it! My laptop 'enter' key is a fiddly little thing, just below the 'backspace' key. My biggest problem is hitting the edge of the 'enter' key when hitting the 'backspace' key - not really typoing the number out of inattention. Simple solution: make 'cancel' the default selected button on a sell/buy order modification. That way if you are fumble fingered, it cancels the order rather than updating it to something stupid. No extra dialogue boxes needed. That'd satisfy me. If I type in the wrong number and don't check, serves me right.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.14 15:32:00 - [23] Originally by: Mike'P Simple solution: make 'cancel' the default selected button on a sell/buy order modification. That way if you are fumble fingered, it cancels the order rather than updating it to something stupid. No extra dialogue boxes needed. For the love of god, no. This would drive any serious trader insane. I don't want to be penalized by having to click 'OK' instead of just hitting enter just because you're too damn lazy to double check your numbers. Take personal responsibility for your actions, stop blaming inanimate objects like laptops, staplers, cats, etc. Stop trying to make extra work for those of us who are capable of entering numbers correctly. I modify at minimum 100 orders a day and I make anywhere from 50-100 new orders per day. I've been doing this for well over a year. So I've managed to not make any major errors in over 73,000 updates. If I had to spend an extra second on each of those I'd have lost 1216 more minutes of my life on an annoyance, just because other people were lazy. I personally love all these typo's as it shifts wealth away from those who deserve to lose it. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Mike'P	Posted - 2007.11.14 23:14:00 - [24] Edited by: Mike''P on 14/11/2007 23:14:47 Originally by: Shadarle I don't want to be penalized by having to click 'OK' instead of just hitting enter just because you're too damn lazy to double check your numbers. Great to hear an alternative point of view, even though a few people have told me to ignore your comments. Just to clarify, I'm not 'too damn lazy', I own a laptop that has a small enter button that is next to the delete button - probably like quite a few people from what I've gathered. I appreciate that power-traders might find a change to the interface to be counter-productive, and I also appreciate that there are some people out there who have never had an accident whilst modifying their orders, however, we're talking about changing one 'poke' of the enter button with a 'poke' of the 'tab' button, followed by a poke of the 'enter' button - personally, I don't think this is a big change. However, I did ask a couple of threads ago whether these sorts of mistakes were part of the design - ie, part of the risk of trading is the interface that allows a simple typo to cost you the game (in wealth terms). I guess that's still my real question: is the redistribution of wealth via this 'enter=>accept' interface decision a game mechanic, or is it an oversight by the programmers that could be made more user-friendly ? Cheers, Mike'P
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.14 23:57:00 - [25] Edited by: Shadarle on 14/11/2007 23:57:02 Originally by: Mike'P I guess that's still my real question: is the redistribution of wealth via this 'enter=>accept' interface decision a game mechanic, or is it an oversight by the programmers that could be made more user-friendly ? It cannot be made more user-friendly for everyone. If they make it more user-friendly for you then it is LESS user friendly for me. I will never say I think the EVE UI is good. I have listed tons of changes that should be made many times before. The UI over-all sucks. But it sucks because of how time-intensive and repetitive many actions are, not because it doesn't protect people enough. I'd rather all the warning messages were removed from the game and to restore it to the way it used to be. I don't need a warning message to be able to read correctly the first time. And it has nothing to do with the size of your enter key or the shape of it or the feel of it. You should slow your fingers down if you are unable to hit the correct keys. If you don't want to slow down then it is indeed your own fault for the mistake. The correct answer is not to punish people who are already able to avoid making mistakes and that is what your change does. If you can figure out a way that doesn't slow others down then I'm all for it. But don't make others pay for your mistakes. Darwinism should be part of game design. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
SiJira	Posted - 2007.11.15 00:01:00 - [26] Originally by: Shadarle It cannot be made more user-friendly for everyone. If they make it more user-friendly for you then it is LESS user friendly for me. If you can figure out a way that doesn't slow others down then I'm all for it. wrong all it has to do is have an option to turn off the warning permanently if you dont want it like many other warnings ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.15 02:33:00 - [27] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Shadarle It cannot be made more user-friendly for everyone. If they make it more user-friendly for you then it is LESS user friendly for me. If you can figure out a way that doesn't slow others down then I'm all for it. wrong all it has to do is have an option to turn off the warning permanently if you dont want it like many other warnings Which would be a decent enough solution. One I've asked for on several other issues in the past, such as the ability to turn off market refresh. I'd be all for this if there was a way to turn it off. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Taikun Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.11.15 07:04:00 - [28] Originally by: Shadarle Which would be a decent enough solution. One I've asked for on several other issues in the past, such as the ability to turn off market refresh. I'd be all for this if there was a way to turn it off. Liar. When I proposed the exact same solution months ago, your 'opinion' was "F#$% everyone else because I like it the way it is". i.e You enjoyed seeing others screwed over by a sucky GUI. Taikun ----------------------------------- For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good.
Liisa Absolutely No Retreat The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.11.15 09:51:00 - [29] I would like the commas that are placed after every 10^3 to auto update while you type in a money value. Personally, I think that this is all that must be done as it allows you to see if you have missed or added a zero too many at a glance. Quick and hopefully easy to do as it is client side. Leave enter on okay, please. Signature Your signature exceeds the 24000 byte limit allowed on the forums. -Darth Patches
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.11.15 10:22:00 - [30] Originally by: Shadarle Which would be a decent enough solution. One I've asked for on several other issues in the past, such as the ability to turn off market refresh. I'd be all for this if there was a way to turn it off. Originally by: Taikun Liar. When I proposed the exact same solution months ago, your 'opinion' was "F#$% everyone else because I like it the way it is". i.e You enjoyed seeing others screwed over by a sucky GUI. Proof or STFU as I think you'll find he actually said exactly that. His position was simply do not implement added steps to this process unless you add the ability to disable the added step. Prove me wrong, I dare you. Originally by: Liisa I would like the commas that are placed after every 10^3 to auto update while you type in a money value. My solution is to hit tab before I hit enter. If you hit tab the field will update with formatting. Heck I hit tab on a lot of entry fields since tab takes focus away from whatever I'm doing and then the UI takes over and formats/corrects my entries. I hit tab more than I hit enter. (Word to the wise.) It's A GIRL!!!!!

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