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Xao Wen
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:34:00 -
[1]
The bandwith has been reduced to 75 MB.
"Yay, but it's to bring it inline DPS wise".
False. You've got a high DPS with BLASTERS, which have a pathetic range, NO ONE ever uses blasters on missions (care to consider mission running with blasters instead of cruises? :p) With rails, its DPS is weak, while still being cap dTpendant, with huge traking issues and unable to vary it's damage type.
Now the Kronos has a lower DPS output than a Hyperion, the web bonus is laughable considering that you can fit a double 90% web on a Hype (5 slot), and it as a marginally better tank (one less rig point however). Simply put : it is useless.
Please bring back the BW to 125. Why with the new bandwith the Gallente are always taking the shaft?
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:41:00 -
[2]
You really thought the the Marauders would be mission running ships?
They will have other more or less good uses but they are not mission ships.
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Trent Nichols
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:43:00 -
[3]
This change is just as senseless as the rest of the recent nerf fest but I'm really not angry about it. CCP at least has their timing right on this nerf. By screwing the Kronos before it is even released players can avoid tossing their SP into a worthless ship and spend time skilling for something else. Now finding a ship that isn't likely to be nerfed; thats a tough one unless you go Caldari.
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Cosmo Raata
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:44:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Xao Wen The bandwith has been reduced to 75 MB.
"Yay, but it's to bring it inline DPS wise".
False. You've got a high DPS with BLASTERS, which have a pathetic range, NO ONE ever uses blasters on missions (care to consider mission running with blasters instead of cruises? :p) With rails, its DPS is weak, while still being cap dTpendant, with huge traking issues and unable to vary it's damage type.
Now the Kronos has a lower DPS output than a Hyperion, the web bonus is laughable considering that you can fit a double 90% web on a Hype (5 slot), and it as a marginally better tank (one less rig point however). Simply put : it is useless.
Please bring back the BW to 125. Why with the new bandwith the Gallente are always taking the shaft?
Wow, you my friend might be the most clueless person I've ever seen post in this game. Its DPS is better WITH RAILS than any rail platform, it has a tracking bonus and a built in cap bonus. I am just at a loss for words when it comes to arguing with someone so stupid.
Don't Ban me for my Love of Amarr! |
Xao Wen
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:47:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Venkul Mul You really thought the the Marauders would be mission running ships?
They will have other more or less good uses but they are not mission ships.
In the current state of things, Kronos is NOTHING. You can't pvp in that thing, you're way better in a Hype (which will be a lot cheaper anyway), you can't rat with only med drones and fixed damage guns (well not as effectively has in a plain T1 raven)...
UN-nerf drone ship? LOL.
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Alias11
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:50:00 -
[6]
If I'm reading this correctly, you're upset that the ship is no longer capable of doing the DPS that precisely one noncapital ship in the game could match? You're mad that it no longer does the same DPS as the fedathron? You realize it can easily tank in the order of 1000 dps. Unless I'm mistaken, it's still the highest DPS ship in the game that isn't a capital ship or the fedathron. Honestly I'm pretty upset about the eos but with all the crazy crap going on in the patch this one actually makes sense. I mean the damn thing was a PVP monster and stood a decent chance solo against a carrier. It still IS a PVP monster.
If you want to mission I'm certain there's a golem that you can crawl into somewhere, but the kronos is fine.
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Alias11
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:52:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Xao Wen Kronos is NOTHING. You can't pvp in that thing, you're way better in a Hype
I'd really like to know why you think this.
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Xao Wen
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:53:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Cosmo Raata Caldari scumbag's opinion
I've nerver said the Kronos was weak has a railboat (it is indeed effective on paper), I said DPS with rail is low. Period. Be it on a Mega, a Hype or a Kronos. Care to compare the EFECTIVE DPS between a railboat and a torp/cruise raven? Taking into account the misses/unflexibility of damage types etc? Ok now get out of my thread and go eat a bone thx.
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Aries Acheron
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:54:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Xao Wen
Originally by: Venkul Mul You really thought the the Marauders would be mission running ships?
They will have other more or less good uses but they are not mission ships.
In the current state of things, Kronos is NOTHING. You can't pvp in that thing, you're way better in a Hype (which will be a lot cheaper anyway), you can't rat with only med drones and fixed damage guns (well not as effectively has in a plain T1 raven)...
UN-nerf drone ship? LOL.
You're full of it. The Kronos has all the benefits of both Hyperion and Megathron, EXCEPT the ability to launch 5 heavy drones, but it makes up for this by having damage output that rivals the Federate Megathron! That's insane.
It has the firepower of 8 bonused turrets. Like the Hyperion. It has the tankpower of the Hyperion, plus some. It has the tracking of the Megathron. Awesome. It has a built-in dual web which is incredibly helpful It has the grid to fit a full set of neutron blasters AND a tank, something Hypes and Megas can't do. It has a 125m3 drone bay, so that's 10 mediums, 5 lights. That's great. 5 combat mediums, 5 ecm drones, 5 warrior IIs for anti-ceptor work. It has quadruple the cargo space available for ammo, and more importantly CAP BOOSTER 800 CHARGES. It'll never run out. It has 3 utility slots for Nos/Neuts/Smarties.
...and you're saying it's 'nothing'? The only thing preventing it from being an insane KILLMOBILE without flaws is the weak EW strength, something which is fixed by fitting ECCM or having remote ECCM.
Jeez. The Kronos is the most powerful non-capital ship ever, EVER seen. ~~~
Survive Eve! Eve Tribune
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Cosmo Raata
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:54:00 -
[10]
When a Goon & a BoB agree on something, it means you're dead wrong. period.
Don't Ban me for my Love of Amarr! |
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Cosmo Raata
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:55:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Xao Wen
Originally by: Cosmo Raata Caldari scumbag's opinion
I've nerver said the Kronos was weak has a railboat (it is indeed effective on paper), I said DPS with rail is low. Period. Be it on a Mega, a Hype or a Kronos. Care to compare the EFECTIVE DPS between a railboat and a torp/cruise raven? Taking into account the misses/unflexibility of damage types etc? Ok now get out of my thread and go eat a bone thx.
I use a rail astarte & top pretty much every killmail. Train some skills boy.
Don't Ban me for my Love of Amarr! |
Xao Wen
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:55:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Alias11
Originally by: Xao Wen Kronos is NOTHING. You can't pvp in that thing, you're way better in a Hype
I'd really like to know why you think this.
Same gun DPS, more drone DPS on the Hype, ten time cheaper?
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Gordon Red
SteelVipers YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:56:00 -
[13]
I never has problems with drone ships, because I use smartbombs... And so on I can't understanding why the get nerverd in the first place.
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Xao Wen
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:57:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Xao Wen on 02/11/2007 16:57:26
Originally by: Cosmo Raata
Originally by: Xao Wen
Originally by: Cosmo Raata Caldari scumbag's opinion
I've nerver said the Kronos was weak has a railboat (it is indeed effective on paper), I said DPS with rail is low. Period. Be it on a Mega, a Hype or a Kronos. Care to compare the EFECTIVE DPS between a railboat and a torp/cruise raven? Taking into account the misses/unflexibility of damage types etc? Ok now get out of my thread and go eat a bone thx.
I use a rail astarte & top pretty much every killmail. Train some skills boy.
I'm taking about large hybrid turret, not med.
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Cosmo Raata
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:59:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Xao Wen Edited by: Xao Wen on 02/11/2007 16:57:26
Originally by: Cosmo Raata
Originally by: Xao Wen
Originally by: Cosmo Raata Caldari scumbag's opinion
I've nerver said the Kronos was weak has a railboat (it is indeed effective on paper), I said DPS with rail is low. Period. Be it on a Mega, a Hype or a Kronos. Care to compare the EFECTIVE DPS between a railboat and a torp/cruise raven? Taking into account the misses/unflexibility of damage types etc? Ok now get out of my thread and go eat a bone thx.
I use a rail astarte & top pretty much every killmail. Train some skills boy.
I'm taking about large hybrid turret, not med.
Then I guess killboards that show Megas on top of mails are wrong & you are right.
Don't Ban me for my Love of Amarr! |
Alias11
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.02 17:03:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Xao Wen
Originally by: Alias11
Originally by: Xao Wen Kronos is NOTHING. You can't pvp in that thing, you're way better in a Hype
I'd really like to know why you think this.
Same gun DPS, more drone DPS on the Hype, ten time cheaper?
Significantly harder tank, More Gun DPS because of tracking bonus, free high utility slots, slightly faster.
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Incantare
Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.11.02 17:04:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Xao Wen The bandwith has been reduced to 75 MB.
"Yay, but it's to bring it inline DPS wise".
False. (...)
True. No other marauder got a dps boost over its t1 counterpart, except the Paladin which badly needed it. The Kronos getting an extra turret after bonus and keeping its 125 bandwith was nosensical. They could've boosted the others or nerfed the Kronos, they nerfed the Kronos.
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Aries Acheron
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.02 17:09:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Xao Wen
Originally by: Alias11
Originally by: Xao Wen Kronos is NOTHING. You can't pvp in that thing, you're way better in a Hype
I'd really like to know why you think this.
Same gun DPS, more drone DPS on the Hype, ten time cheaper?
Wrong. The Hype can't fit 8 Neutrons and a real tank. The Kronos can. Kronos does a good bit more damage, especially while having tracking bonuses, webbing bonuses as well. The Kronos does a lot more 'effective' damage. ~~~
Survive Eve! Eve Tribune
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Xao Wen
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Posted - 2007.11.02 17:09:00 -
[19]
And so? The Gallente are the DPS race. Beside, and whatever you'll say, Marauders are supposed to be ratter/mission running ships and nerfing their drone bay greatly decreases their hability to do so.
And off course "train a golem"...
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Alias11
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.02 17:27:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Alias11 on 02/11/2007 17:36:45
Originally by: Xao Wen Marauders are supposed to be ratter/mission running ships
Who told you this?
ALSO:
There you go, The kronos outperforms both gallente battleships in damage as well as tanking. That extra almost a drone doesn't compare to the seventh low and the MFS that goes there. IT'S FINE.
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Santa Anna
Caldari Blackguard Brigade Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.02 17:34:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Alias11
I need new glasses. _____ CPU Love |
Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.02 17:34:00 -
[22]
I think this was needed (and yes, I fly Gallente). I'd much rather the new ships be balanced at start, than have one be overpowered and face the inevitable nerf sometime down the road.
The Paladin looks nice now, and the Kronos is back in line with the others. The Vargur apparently has some fitting problems still (? not sure, haven't read those threads much), but generally it's looking good imho.
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Alias11
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.02 17:36:00 -
[23]
damn thumbnail. Also this doesn't count the much more nebulous dps boost that comes out of the extra tracking, but it's not like it needs to illustrate that anyway
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Xao Wen
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Posted - 2007.11.02 17:40:00 -
[24]
Tracking issue can only decrease DPS. They do not increase it, comparatevely to the theorytical (sp?) DPS you get on EFT.
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Alias11
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.02 17:42:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Alias11 on 02/11/2007 17:43:28
Originally by: Xao Wen Tracking issue can only decrease DPS. They do not increase it, comparatevely to the theorytical (sp?) DPS you get on EFT.
right, but the decrease in dps because of tracking will hit harder on the hyperion than it will on the mega or kronos, ergo the Kronos hits and tanks harder for longer than the hyperion and what issue do you possibly have with this? It's second in raw damage output to the goddamn FEDATHRON.
Also there's the issue of how tracking may or may not effect wrecking hits but I'm going to stay out of that. IN CONCLUSION: What is the issue with the kronos. It is the highest dps non-capital non-unique ship in the game with one of the hardest tanks in addition to that. What is wrong with it?
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Xao Wen
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Posted - 2007.11.02 17:53:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Xao Wen on 02/11/2007 17:54:09 Ok. Well, I will do a very very rare thing on these forums. Considering your arguments, I agree that I have maybe a little over-reacted and the Kronos is still nice.
(Only Alias11's argument btw. <3 goons).
WOW! Incredible.
NEVERTHELESS, I still say that they will still be slightly inferior to a well skilled cruise raven for mission runners/NPCers, while being considerabily more expensive. And the devblog that announced Marauders described them as "mission runner's wet dreams". A dev stated that, not me. Now, I'm not a carebear, I don't do missions, I'm a 0.0 pvper and make money with an alt in a sacrilege. And as I am Gallente speced, I think a ship as good to fly as the raven to grind ISK to make money would have been nice. Nevermind.
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Icorion
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.02 18:08:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Icorion on 02/11/2007 18:08:22
Originally by: Alias11 Edited by: Alias11 on 02/11/2007 17:36:45
Originally by: Xao Wen Marauders are supposed to be ratter/mission running ships
Who told you this?
Sorry to interrupt your argument brosef, but the first dev blogs stated that they would not be a continuation of the hac line. Rather, they would be battleships built for grinding missions.
For what it's worth, I agree with you - the ship is fine.
e: beaten
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Alias11
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.02 18:29:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Alias11 on 02/11/2007 18:29:45
Originally by: Xao Wen Edited by: Xao Wen on 02/11/2007 17:54:09 Ok. Well, I will do a very very rare thing on these forums. Considering your arguments, I agree that I have maybe a little over-reacted and the Kronos is still nice.
(Only Alias11's argument btw. <3 goons).
WOW! Incredible.
NEVERTHELESS, I still say that they will still be slightly inferior to a well skilled cruise raven for mission runners/NPCers, while being considerabily more expensive. And the devblog that announced Marauders described them as "mission runner's wet dreams". A dev stated that, not me. Now, I'm not a carebear, I don't do missions, I'm a 0.0 pvper and make money with an alt in a sacrilege. And as I am Gallente speced, I think a ship as good to fly as the raven to grind ISK to make money would have been nice. Nevermind.
Admittedly, the cruise raven probably is better, but that has way more to do with the differentiation between the race philosophies. A tank in the midslots means your lows are open for more damage mods, but it also means you can't tackle and tank at the same time, but you can tank and dish out dps at the same time. Which are the two things you need for missions. There'd be really no way to make it work and have them all be good pve ships unless they made all of them shield tankers. The kronos is still a decent mission runner, and can put out 500-ish dps with iridium to 60 or so km before it starts to take a damage hit, but design philosophy prevents anything from comparing to caldari for missions running.
I also remember something after the announcement regarding how the marauders would be good for missioning, but it wasn't the only thing they'd be good for. I may be hallucinating though.
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Xao Wen
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Posted - 2007.11.02 18:42:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Xao Wen on 02/11/2007 18:43:36
Quote: The home-away-from-home-tech-2-battleship
The long-range and high-versatility Battleship nicknamed the "Violators". Their versatility will work for many play styles but we also wanted something which would work for PvE play styles.This doesn't mean they will work well for only mission runners, so there is no need to brand them with the misnomer of the "mission ship".
That's the entire quote. Not only missions ---> ratting too? (the weakness to ECM was put to keep them away form pvp I think).
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Sorum Daemoth
Insidious Existence Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.11.02 18:47:00 -
[30]
their went ANY chance of me buying one
You just got WTF EXIT ganked! |
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