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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Phony
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:34:00 -
[151]
well wots next this carrier thing is a crok of ****e all the skil time carrier pilots have invested... wasted...all the builders efforts goin to go dwn the pan as the market will be floded soon
bah sod it
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Lar Min
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:50:00 -
[152]
I think people might be missing an obvious reason for this nerf. It gives the Black ops/Covt ops folks something to do by chasing down the Jump freighter that is carrying the enemy fleet ammo.
Of course you have to allocate ships to defend your own against the enemy Black ops/Covt ops. See, their learning how to spread the blob around inside a system!
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Prydeless
Vengeance of the Fallen Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:53:00 -
[153]
I really wish ccp would take a step back from the carriers and get of there nuts. This is idiotic along with all the other ideas on carriers. Leave them the hell alone!
Disclaimer: I am a God. |
Trask Kilraen
The Older Gamers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.11.06 19:12:00 -
[154]
I don't mind so much that carriers get nerfed as jump-haulers. BUT. It IS a big deal that ships in the bay can't have their own supplies. It makes carrying fitting and stocked replacment ships MUCH more of a hassle. That is bad. If CCP really wants to nerf the carrier's hauling ability, go for it I guess, but it should still be useful as a CARRIER (e.g. a ship that carries other ships) ------------------------------------------
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Aurinkokuningas
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Posted - 2007.11.06 19:15:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Trask Kilraen I don't mind so much that carriers get nerfed as jump-haulers. BUT. It IS a big deal that ships in the bay can't have their own supplies. It makes carrying fitting and stocked replacment ships MUCH more of a hassle. That is bad. If CCP really wants to nerf the carrier's hauling ability, go for it I guess, but it should still be useful as a CARRIER (e.g. a ship that carries other ships)
You need teamwork. Logistics ships bringing ammo, fuel and spare parts. It is good.
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Molly Neuro
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Posted - 2007.11.06 19:17:00 -
[156]
Brilliant idea - just fantastic
I only say this as....
No one I know ever puts ammo / mods or cap boosters etc in their ships I have freighter 5 (2 months??) trained up for the super new Tech 2 jump freighter I have the approximately 8 billion isk it is estimated to cost to buy this super jump freighter I don't mind spending the rest of my eve life jumping crap for everyone cause no one else has a super new T2 jump freighter Carriers moving small amounts of materials about was RUINING THE GAME!!111 (somehow) The massive increase in corp hanger size has made up for this excellent and well focussed nerf I have read your dev post on this subject and agree with the absolutely nothing you put in there Nerfing carriers by removing GSC's was not enough - we the payers demand more nerfs Why would I want to carry stuff about for POS, corp mates, alliance ops when I could use it as a solo pwn mobile!! (not sure how but I'll figure it out)
Thank you so much for another well thought out excellent change to this game, I'd much rather you spent time on carrier changes that no one wants than fixing amarr or removing lag or making drones attack who you ask them to or getting fighters to actually come back to the carrier when you ask etc etc etc
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Mistress Oriana
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Posted - 2007.11.06 19:22:00 -
[157]
Devs are out of touch with the game.
I think we as a community believe the game designers are a small bunch of people who throw ideas around, know what they are talking about and understand all aspects of the game.
This simply doesnt appear to be the case - CCP have recruited alot of people, some good, and some (in this case) obviously bad. There are alterior motives at play here - nothing to do with how uber carriers are.
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Reverend Revelator
Elite Storm Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.11.06 19:30:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Mistress Oriana Devs are out of touch with the game.
I think we as a community believe the game designers are a small bunch of people who throw ideas around, know what they are talking about and understand all aspects of the game.
This simply doesnt appear to be the case - CCP have recruited alot of people, some good, and some (in this case) obviously bad. There are alterior motives at play here - nothing to do with how uber carriers are.
I think it has been proven to everyones dissatisfaction that the devs in fact play the game way way too much, and so they do in fact know the gameplay quite well.
-- Dead People Laugh At The Murder Of Love -- |
ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.06 19:32:00 -
[159]
IÆm all for ships being used for any purpose that their pilots see fit. This meets the criteria that the developers wanted for eve online as a sandbox where anything you want to do you can do. For the developers seeing a carrier as a hauler and actively trying to nerf its ability is contrary to eves design ethic I donÆt see a carrier being used as a hauler as an exploit at all. I donÆt want to anthropomorphize eve but carriers in modern warfare are use to haul a fleets provisions and as such are the true haulers of the sea.
www.eve-players.com |
Insidi Us
Amarr Suicidal Mercenaries Pure.
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Posted - 2007.11.06 19:36:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Mistress Oriana Devs are out of touch with the game.
You are not the game. Changes that don't follow your opinions in lockstep do not make them out of touch with the game, just your opinion of how it should be run. Opinion.
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RIP Constructive Criticism |
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Tananda Vaakaja
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Posted - 2007.11.06 19:39:00 -
[161]
What is rather upsetting here is not just the carrier nerf (let's not forget it's ONE ship among several others that are getting gelded.. interceptor nerf anyone?). What is, IMHO, even more worrying is the complete LACK of official response from CCP.
How many decent onlines have gone away due to the management loosing sight of what was enjoyed and wanted by those who PAY the bills? SWG is one, remember Earth and Beyond?
So lets look at it objectively, CCP thinks this needs to be done, fair enough.. then for FRAPS sake have a little tact to let the players know why and what the overall plan is for the game ongoing? Don't just throw in an adjustment this extensive and expect us to swallow like good little streetwalkers. There is a thing called Customer Relationship Management.. I would respectfully suggest that someone over in Iceland get a book on it and read it.. better yet take a crash course before they wtfpwn the client base.
Again, it's not so much the nerf(s) that I'm upset about it's the LACK OF COMMUNICATION from CCP about how this is to fit into the overall game play and what the vision is. For heaven's sake.. 6 pages of posts and not ONE official response from CCP about this obviously divisive issue?
Do they want another Petition drive? Do they want to keep and expand their player base? Sadly, from what I've seen and heard.... the powers that be are misinformed or worse yet do not care what the players want, they seem to run on the assumption that "if we put it in and ignore them they will adapt". This may work once and a while.. but eventually there will come a reckoning. Please CCP let us know the why's and how's of these seemingly inane adjustments that have so angered a significant portion of the playerbase?
End trans..
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Dlardrageth
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.11.06 19:43:00 -
[162]
So to sum up much of the whine (Duh!) and criticism here, carriers are now prolly useless? I don't think so... but feel free to correct me, I don't fly them, nor have the skill to, nor do plan to acquire it in the near future. And I frankly don't think we'll see many carriers reprocessed or sold for obscenely low prices soon. Because, there are still uses for them, or not? (Sorry if sounding like "STFU of adapt!")
One has to admit this looks very much like a carrier nerf, agreed. Hauling performance for carriers will be impeded serverely, agreed. But I think it would be much more rewarding (in getting Dev response) to get into a structured debate how to address the issue (which CCP seems to want to have) with a modification to the supposed nerf. Instead of posting "OMFGhaxxNERF!".
Reality is, a lot of the community doesn't care that much about carriers and 0.0 logistics, if at all. Of course, we all cannot make the devs concur to the priorities we see for fixes. They have their own mind about it. But this thread could use a bit more constructive input from the player base, methinks. Unless it's prone to evolve into another whine thread...
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Molly Neuro
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Posted - 2007.11.06 23:40:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Dlardrageth So to sum up much of the whine (Duh!) and criticism here, carriers are now prolly useless? I don't think so... but feel free to correct me, I don't fly them, nor have the skill to, nor do plan to acquire it in the near future.
The why have you replied to this thread expressing consent for a change when you have absolutely no idea what it means??
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Turin
Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.11.07 00:33:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Fswd Edited by: Fswd on 27/10/2007 12:08:10 Edited by: Fswd on 27/10/2007 12:07:56 Edited by: Fswd on 27/10/2007 12:07:23 There are freighters for hauling stuff. The function of carriers is to carry fighters, not stuff. In some way, this can even be regarded as an exploit, like how miners use jet-cans.
trolling alts FTL. Get a main you looser.
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Skraeling Shortbus
Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.11.07 02:12:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Aurinkokuningas
Originally by: Trask Kilraen I don't mind so much that carriers get nerfed as jump-haulers. BUT. It IS a big deal that ships in the bay can't have their own supplies. It makes carrying fitting and stocked replacment ships MUCH more of a hassle. That is bad. If CCP really wants to nerf the carrier's hauling ability, go for it I guess, but it should still be useful as a CARRIER (e.g. a ship that carries other ships)
You need teamwork. Logistics ships bringing ammo, fuel and spare parts. It is good.
In other words you want someone whose sole purpose is to be the mmo equivalent of a mule?
Love to the Assault Frigate! |
Herring
Pimpology Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2007.11.07 03:54:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Dlardrageth So to sum up much of the whine (Duh!) and criticism here, carriers are now prolly useless? I don't think so... but feel free to correct me, I don't fly them, nor have the skill to, nor do plan to acquire it in the near future. And I frankly don't think we'll see many carriers reprocessed or sold for obscenely low prices soon. Because, there are still uses for them, or not? (Sorry if sounding like "STFU of adapt!")
One has to admit this looks very much like a carrier nerf, agreed. Hauling performance for carriers will be impeded serverely, agreed. But I think it would be much more rewarding (in getting Dev response) to get into a structured debate how to address the issue (which CCP seems to want to have) with a modification to the supposed nerf. Instead of posting "OMFGhaxxNERF!".
Reality is, a lot of the community doesn't care that much about carriers and 0.0 logistics, if at all. Of course, we all cannot make the devs concur to the priorities we see for fixes. They have their own mind about it. But this thread could use a bit more constructive input from the player base, methinks. Unless it's prone to evolve into another whine thread...
Ok if you think people are just going off about this in an irrational and whiny manner, consider the following:
1. What's the motivation behind the nerf? From what little we've heard (and it is little) the devs consider the carrier to be uber. Waay too good at everything it does. Especially hauling. So if I'm getting the gist right from the Devs, it's that logistics in 0.0 is just too damned easy right now with a carrier. It needs to be harder. I disagree heartily. Many carrier pilots disagree.
2. So they inform everyone that they're going to get bent over shortly in the logistics department so that they can FORCE a large majority of the people who absolutely, positively NEED to move items to and from 0.0 with carriers to now start training now for jump freighters. -G.A.Y.- Unnecessary timesink, unnecessary nerf, just unnecessary plain and simple.
3. We need a solid role of what they want the carrier to be, and no BS. Just say this is the role of a carrier, no, we won't be changing it a year or two down the road. Quit ******* with people's training time. Change happens, but when you waste months and/or years of time that people could have used to train for another ship/shipclass/race entirely, just because of radical design changes that someone came up with after too many beers, that is another thing I would call absolutely, positively and in all ways completely ***. If I knew that this was what the dev team had had in mind for carriers, I wouldn't have started training for them.
Yeah kind of whiny, but not as bad as it might be. God I hate nerfs. Nerfs exist because people didn't think things through when they first got designed, and didn't play around with them enough.
CCP - please stop with the nerfing and boost something already. |
Gah'khaz
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.07 04:40:00 -
[167]
Edited by: Gah''khaz on 07/11/2007 04:41:57 I remember when this game was fun and exciting.. about the time i started playing and 6 months after.. been downhill all the way from there on out... eve is reduced to instamelting blobs and mighty swings of nerfbat in dark rooms... i suggest a new thread -> alternatives to Eve, uncorrupted games where you can play and have fun
/edit for readability
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Dlardrageth
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.11.07 06:27:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Molly Neuro
The why have you replied to this thread expressing consent for a change when you have absolutely no idea what it means??
1. You failed at reading 101. But nice job snipping away the last part of the paragraph you quote. Strawman raised...
2. Asking for a more structured and factual debate doesn't imply "consent" of any type. Reality is the devs will nerf or not nerf, no matter if I consent or not. Don't know about you, though, because...
3. Post with your main or STFU, will you? Nerf Alts...
4. In fact I'm less than thrilled by the "rebalancing" performance of CCP. Wrong priorities to a large extent IMHO. But unless more people post like Herring a bit further up the thread, all points made will be ignored. I don't think the devs will bother reading up on whining, would any of us in their place? I doubt it. Thus a mere waste of bandwidth.
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Zanarkand
Gallente Enterprise Estonia Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.11.07 06:41:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Viqer Fell
Ships inside a carriers ship maintenance bay can no longer have cargo in them.
VERY GOOD
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Setana Manoro
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.07 06:56:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Race Rogers bring an ammo ship. flame all you want but this newbie thinks it is a good idea. you cannot fight a war without a logistic supply line and supplies. if the carrier is able to have ammo in it's cargo hold and able to dispense ammo once the ships are out, then all the better. a freight ship to resupply the carrier.
i have yet to fight out in the real world [only 6 days old] but anything that makes it more strategic/tactical is a good thing. i want every ship to have a purpose in battle. is this such a crazy thing to want?
is it only one percent of the player base that post on these boards? if it is only one percent, then ninety eight percent seem to cry all the time?
those who cry and do not adapt should just quit. there is no love here for non progressive thought.
flame on!
You should post about stuff like this when you understand what a Carrier is, and how it was used untill now.
Failgeddon wrecks CCP for XXX annoyed customers ! |
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Baron Primus
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Posted - 2007.11.07 08:12:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Deanna Nuchi No cargo = no ammo in the ships..
Its an Amarr boost!!!
Attaboy. Look at the silver lining!
Originally by: SoftRevolution WoW is computer AIDS.
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Chrysalis D'lilth
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Posted - 2007.11.07 08:30:00 -
[172]
I've not flown a carrier in a while, but i'm not sure what this actually achieves.
Did they prevent you fitting those jump portal generators to frigates like the griffon?
That was always the best way to compress minerals - and unless that got nerfed already, i don't see how this achieves anything.... except mean you can't put spare ammo/cap charges in your ships.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2007.11.07 08:46:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Herring So if I'm getting the gist right from the Devs, it's that logistics in 0.0 is just too damned easy right now with a carrier. It needs to be harder. I disagree heartily. Many carrier pilots disagree.
Hauling stuff in 0.0 IS to damn easy!
This has a lot of bad effects (for the game): 1. It is way to easy for alliances to claim wast amounts of space, and not using most of it. This means less space (none?) for smaller alliances. 2. 0.0 in essence has NO industry! Mostly nobody mines there, nobody produces there and nobody trades there. There may be exceptions, but that's the general rule. The reason is that it's way to easy to import stuff from high-sec. This means that the intention of 0.0 to contain player-run empires is nowhere near being true. It's just a barren warzone. 3. It is no longer an achievement to do anything in 0.0. In days past, if you put up an outpost, or constructed a cap or supercap, it was something that was felt as an achievement by all involved. Now it's done by just one or a couple of people. This cheapens the EVE experience.
All players always wants things the 'easy' way, or at least they think they do (if they think at all), but in fact the games people enjoy most are the ones that are HARD and presents a challenge. If you do well in a hard game, you can feel that you've actually done something well, while doing well in an easy game is just meh...
So, I fully support this nerf (as long as they find a way to let us keep ammo/etc in our combat ships), just as I support the mineral compression nerf and the freighter mass nerf (actually they should completely prohibit freighters to use jump bridges). Why, because its good for the GAME!
...and yes, I DO fly a carrier!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Malarki X
Caldari Ad Astra Vexillum Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.07 08:55:00 -
[174]
Meh ... dont realy care TBH.
Ammo can be put into cargo hold or alliance bays.
As long as they dont touch my drones and fighters - dont care
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Grishnarg
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:49:00 -
[175]
I just wanna say; BUHUU!! Or no I don't, coz that would be trolling. What i do wanna say is that if you rely on a ship doing something it's not intented to do, maybe your operation has grown bigger than it really should be. Goods should be moved with haulers/freighters. Simple as that. It would be really weird if a MiG could move around concrete bags for runway repairs for the siberian base where it belongs. An extreme example, but this is the argument here. Fight in fighting ships, move stuff in movers.
If I have to make a wild quess; your operations in low or 0.0 started by getting a single POS up and running. You discover you benefit quite well from having it running, so you make more POS, and more, and more... But to be able to sustain all the POS'es you need a ship to transport required items EASILY. WOW (and not the game) a carrier!! This way you can put up even more POS'es, and the result is that u actually are able to run more than you should be able to, and able to control more space than you should. If the opposite would be the result; that you can not keep it all running, this WILL mean that other corps/alliances can claim the areas u cannot, and therefore more ppl in area, and more fun! |
Molly Neuro
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Posted - 2007.11.07 14:15:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Molly Neuro
The why have you replied to this thread expressing consent for a change when you have absolutely no idea what it means??
Originally by: Dlardrageth
1. You failed at reading 101. But nice job snipping away the last part of the paragraph you quote. Strawman raised...
No doubt you passed - feel free to go here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man where you can read and understand what a strawman is. My question to you is not a strawman and has not been answered.
Originally by: Dlardrageth
2. Asking for a more structured and factual debate doesn't imply "consent" of any type. Reality is the devs will nerf or not nerf, no matter if I consent or not. Don't know about you, though, because...
This "carriers are now prolly useless? I don't think so." implies consent.
Originally by: Dlardrageth
3. Post with your main or STFU, will you? Nerf Alts...
Brilliant argument - just stunning - except this is my main, look people up in game before you accuse them of being an alt. BTW since you raised logical fallacies (strawman), this is a great example of an ad hominem attack.
Originally by: Dlardrageth
4. In fact I'm less than thrilled by the "rebalancing" performance of CCP. Wrong priorities to a large extent IMHO. But unless more people post like Herring a bit further up the thread, all points made will be ignored. I don't think the devs will bother reading up on whining, would any of us in their place? I doubt it. Thus a mere waste of bandwidth.
They probably don't like reading whine threads - I don't believe this is one. Having said that they probably don't like reading "stop whining" posts either, leaving yours just as ignored.
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Tananda Vaakaja
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Posted - 2007.11.08 01:59:00 -
[177]
still no response.. interesting
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Lrrp
Minmatar Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2007.11.08 16:52:00 -
[178]
My 2 cents. While at one time I cinsidered training up for carriers (back when you could use them in lvl 4 missions), I held off. Then I thought perhaps I'd build my own POS somewhere and use a carrier to get fuel to it. That was until I started reading this latest nerf.
So here's the big question. What should I train up for? What are CCP's plan for changes 6 months from now? 12 months from now? Will jump freighters be nerfed because of some yet unforeseen exploit? Will Rorquals get setback on bonus's because they give unfair advantage to the isk farmers?
What is happening is there is no longer any surety for a desired item that when trained for, it will be useful for any appreciable length of time. Look at what happened to intidictors, Torps and Sensor dampners.
If CCP wants a game for their own personal playing pleasure, funded by a player base they really care nothing about, then be forewarned. Another game will come on the market with as much content as Eve and devs that understand that the game is for the players....not visa versa.
A good indication that CCP does take it's player base for granted is the absolutely total lack of response in threads such as this. CCP should have customer relations executives whose sole function is interacting in such threads as this. If I ran my business like CCP does here, I'd of been out of business years ago. Warning bells are going off in a number of threads yet I see zip zero nada response by the owners of the game. Open your eyes CCP.
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Jakus Cemendur
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.08 16:58:00 -
[179]
Edited by: Jakus Cemendur on 08/11/2007 16:59:34 Check the other carrier thread(alright, there are a few but the one with gold bars round it), devs have been responding there.
LINKY!
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2007.11.08 17:32:00 -
[180]
EVE isnt wow. To that matter, having ever increasingly powerful ships isnt necessarily EVE's style. Every ship has a place, and even a day old pilot, together with a few others, should take down almost every ship, in keeping with EVE's philosphy (this excepts the titan and MoM, but we can all make exceptions for super caps). In addition, ships have roles. No ship can be perfect for everything.
Carriers, have become just another tier beyond BS. They dont fill their role as an asset to a fleet, but become the fleet itself. In addition, they can kill inties, BS's, or other caps with their varying sizes of drones. They can haul stuff to 00. AND, they can remote rep and gang boost their mates and lend firepower (their orginal, and only, intended use)
So people, the carriers have gotten out of CCPs control. They dont want pilots to feel compelled to train for carriers to be useful. they also dont want EVE to turn into a cap fest...which it WILL if they dont nerf these POSs.
So, get bent you 'invested' carriers pilots. If EVE bends for your whines, then EVE gets broke, with every pilot needing to get into a carrier to become effective. At that point, EVE loses the ability to say that even a day old pilot can be of use. ----------------- Friends Forever
Kill. BoB. Dead. |
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