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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
2952
 |
Posted - 2012.01.26 08:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Seriously though this isnt a complaint about the names going away. Nor is it a idea feature of the sort at all its more of a gauntlet thrown. It more about the meh ville that CCP brought to the table and I challenge them to do better.
Seriously...
Experimental? that doesnt sound like something youd find on a microwarp, a cloaking field maybe but not a gun either.
I am all for one however for newer names that makes more sense in progression.
I am still very much against the idea of having 15,000 different items named all quite differently with little to no cohesion.
Either way there are dozens of words in the english and scientific languages you can easily pull off arrange and put in a logical order.
1MN Cold Arc Jet Gas Afterburner
10MN Vapor Funnel Gas Afterburner
100MN Heated Ring Gas Afterburner
1000MN Plamsa Injected Gas Afterburner
You see you get not only one progression but two, and three common searchable terms. You can even have a display name thats even shorter for inventory view so instead of the entirely spelled out 1MN Cold Arc Jet Afterburner it be more of a 1MN Cold Arc AB on the item listing while bringin up the information will display the modules full name.
What happened to YT-8 some ask? Use it else where. XT-7 and ZT-9? Aside the point the point is there are much better ways to retain the names or make better names.
Digital Manuvering Thrusters, Digital Booster Rockets, Digtial Auxillary Engines.
With our navigations we have 1MN 10MN and 100MN most guns have milimeter sizes however thats a bit wonky since they have several families within one catagory. It still doesnt excuse the effort shouldn't be made to at least come to a nice short sweet non covulted long names to get to the same point though I mean seriously Armor Implant Zaniou"Gnomish" ZA 003 is to long winded and should absolutly be avoided at possibilites to something more like ZA - Gnomish Armor Repair 03 and have it correlate with the bonus amount. instead of having ZA 05 being 3% ><
Either way work the the more serious offenders of bad names.
Lasers with names declaring thier wrong size. The Assault Missile launcher for caldari stocks sake!
Then Implants.
Some might be asking why would I support such name changing in the first place to 'dumb' down eve?
Firstly Ill answer with a pop quiz. Take every single launcher, electronic warfare, resistance module, and gun in eve and arrange them in metalevel order. Mostly everyone is going to fail this and you know this.
The ultimate goal of renaming modules should be awsome enough that bitter vets may acutally like the new names and that a total stranger to eve can get most of the pop quiz right.
I also do not consider renaming things dumbing down Eve. Dumbing down eve requires taking water out of the depth pool making it shallower, we are not losing any of our 15,000 modules in this event. What is happening though is that ccp put new pool filters in thinking its goign to make the shallow to deep end of the pool more of a slope than the steep cliff it is right now.
I can tell you its not. Prototype Experimental Limited? Improved is almost to the point you can actually missarange them or ask ten people and get different answers, not all prototypes are that great. Experimetnal sounds like something thats going to blow up in my face? Limited? sounds worse than the standard issue.
You want a real example of dumbing down eve? heres a few.
Combine the all of new edens markets into one galaxy wide market with items that automatically transport to the buyers location. Instantly replace ships lost in combat with all of thier modules. Remove all ammo types, weapons would only need one type Remove all resource types make it into a four resource kind of game. Rock, Ice, Gas, Scrap.
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Lord Mandelor
Consolidated Holdings War Ensemble.
121
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Posted - 2012.01.26 08:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
+1 for the concept. Cohesion is an improvement, but unique named items shouldn't be completely sacrificed for it. ConHo Daily: http://conhodaily.blogspot.com Stories ranging from midgets inside your Damage Control to drones becoming self-aware. |

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
2952
 |
Posted - 2012.01.26 08:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
I can start trying to do that for them >< but my head hurts enoguh as it is with college and then going back fully explaining more of my 3 line FnI ideas into 6k reports about how to balance the darn things. meh.
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DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
851
 |
Posted - 2012.01.26 08:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
I believe for the propulsion modules, the old name should be mixed with the new. 'Y-T8 Overcharged 10MN Microwarpdrive', for example. Bittervets can still search 'Y-T8'. New players can search '10MN Micro'. It even retains a sci-fi feel.
'1MN Cold Arc Jet Gas Afterburner' isn't a perfect name, by the way. 'Cold-Gas Arc Jet 1MN Afterburner' would be better, because you can still search '1MN Afterburner' and have the module displayed as a search result. |

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
2952
 |
Posted - 2012.01.26 08:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
DarkAegix wrote:I believe for the propulsion modules, the old name should be mixed with the new. 'Y-T8 Overcharged 10MN Microwarpdrive', for example. Bittervets can still search 'Y-T8'. New players can search '10MN Micro'. It even retains a sci-fi feel.
'1MN Cold Arc Jet Gas Afterburner' isn't a perfect name, by the way. 'Cold-Gas Arc Jet 1MN Afterburner' would be better, because you can still search '1MN Afterburner' and have the module displayed as a search result.
I rather want to see smart search to go 'gee this guy wants 1MN Afterburners lets start from most relative to least realtive and list all the metalevels of 1MN AB.
I would also love the ability to type in 1MN AB and actually get results as well.
And bitter vets wont be that angry if you gave them just as awsome names to replace and is alot more sensible to rememeber which was lower or higher in the metalevel ladders.
Most of these bitter vets would fail to label every single launcher and gun properly even if they are serious pvpers.
I would like to have the names in such a manner that a total stranger to eve can pass the test.
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Grukni
Shimai of New Eden
43
 |
Posted - 2012.01.26 09:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
+1 OP
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Leah Solo
State War Academy Caldari State
29
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Posted - 2012.01.26 09:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yes..agreeing with the OP 100%. I can't say I really see some life or death need to change the name of missiles and mods..but if you have to do it, then how hard is it to come up with something creative, other than prototype and limited??
So the change is not the issue..it's the new naming scheme. I just can't comprehend how such bland names got approved into EVE? Does such a cult game deserve to have once cool named mods reduced to such boring pieces of horridness?
Is that what we can expect from CCP :excellence:?
And why trouble yourselves with the new names, when old names could've been iterated on, while achieving the same goal of simplifying things?
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DeBingJos
T.R.I.A.D
193
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Posted - 2012.01.26 09:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Novafox = best fox Fix FW ! |

Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
5568
 |
Posted - 2012.01.26 09:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
I agree.
I'm not really that bothered they changed them. But couldn't more thought have gone into the names, before change?
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1214
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Posted - 2012.01.26 12:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Agree with the principle of your thread but have to say ...
"100MN Heated Ring Gas Afterburner"
Is about the worst name for anything ever. 
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
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Fix Lag
253
 |
Posted - 2012.01.26 12:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
10MN Chromium Bunsen Afterburner |

Diana Valenti
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2012.01.26 14:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
Agreed, +1. |

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
2965
 |
Posted - 2012.01.26 15:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Hey I am not perfect either but we can recycle all of the old names on newer modules as well since ccp devs seem to be looking into newer kinds such as disposable modules and the sorts.
All I am really saying that if they must change name on a series make it cohesive make it progressive and if you have to copy and paste one groups to another (guns) make it consistent and established.
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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
2965
 |
Posted - 2012.01.26 15:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Agree with the principle of your thread but have to say ... "100MN Heated Ring Gas Afterburner" Is about the worst name for anything ever. 
100mn Torch Gas Ring Afterburner better?
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Revii Lagoon
The Foreign Legion Test Alliance Please Ignore
19
 |
Posted - 2012.01.26 17:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
+1 Great idea, keeps the uniqueness of the names, improves searching for items, and keeps bitter vets happy. |

Solstice Project
Cult of Personality
1292
 |
Posted - 2012.01.26 17:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
1000mn ?? O_o Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |

Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
137
 |
Posted - 2012.01.26 17:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
If they implemented item group filters after the pipe that would work well:
A search for "1MN|Afterburner|Faction" yields:
Gallente Navy 1MN Afterburner Shadow Serpentis 1MN Afterburner Republic Fleet 1MN Afterburner Domination 1MN Afterburner
Another alternative is wildcard searches, so that you could type in something like this:
1MN*Afterburner and it would pick up anything with 1MN and Afterburner in it. |

Alpheias
Euphoria Released 0ccupational Hazzard
426
 |
Posted - 2012.01.26 17:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
First time, I actually agree with the furry. I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more |

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
2967
 |
Posted - 2012.01.26 18:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:1000mn ?? O_o Thinking ahead sorry.
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Khosi
Beyond Thunderdome
0
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Posted - 2012.01.26 18:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
If you wanted to make it really simple you could just say:
"1MN Afterburner" and for non-faction/deadspace/officer/storyline things:
"1MN Afterburner X", where X=Meta Level
wouldn't really screw up Tech 2 stuff, since their meta is 5 anyway as far as I know.
just saying. In real life numbers get applied applied to upgrades ('beta', '1.0', 'v 2.0' , 'Crucible 1.1.2.3.4.35.2.3.omgwtf', etc.)
I agree with the OP, the original naming conventions are nice and creative, and the OP does have a pretty good idea. Could be done simpler though, and still retain quite a bit of realism. |
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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
2973
 |
Posted - 2012.01.26 19:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alpheias wrote:First time, I actually agree with the furry. 
If you pay attention long enough I do produce good arguments every so often.
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Kolya Medz
Kolya Inc.
32
 |
Posted - 2012.01.26 20:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
+1 |

Pilot Dima
Permeability Of Free Space
6
 |
Posted - 2012.01.26 21:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
+1 to the OP's idea
+1 to the OP for providing criticism that is coherent, constructive, and appears to be well thought out rather than simple bitching and moaning.
-2 for CCP for not consulting with the people who have to use the product to see if someone might have a better idea that whatever it is the team in charge of this came up with (which is another half-baked CCP style beta-quality solution to a problem)
Team Questionable Decisions CCP Edition: please review alternative solutions to the problem of module names. Module names needed improvement, it's hard to deny that. You think you saw an easy way to solve the problem and rolled it out in this update, in lieu of other complicated UI improvements (S&I interface, for instance). I don't think you fully understand all the reasons why module names could use improvements, because if you did, you wouldn't have considered such a trivial and ineffective solution.
The big issue that makes the whole module thing complicated (rather than merely complex): It's hard to search for what you want (by the way, it still isn't really much easier)
In part this is due to naming conventions a) names are inconsistent across categories (Magnetic shield amplifier--which resist? 250mm as a small for projectile turrets but medium for hybrids, etc.) b) names often don't give any clue to the properties of the module (Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive--sounds like it's better than the Upgraded 1MN Microwarpdrive to some, I'm sure... oh wait, it's not better? derp) c) a lot of names for the same property (EM missiles of old: Gremlin, Mjolnir, etc.; Heavy missiles of today: Nova, Trauma, etc. similar alignment of different paradigms). Search for "Gremlin" pre-Crucible 1.1 and you are implicitly searching for both "rocket" and "EM damage". Search for "Mjolnir" today and you're searching for EM damage. If wanting "heavy EM missiles" you must search for "Mjolnir heavy" which incidentally won't show you the "Fury" and "Precision" variants.
Another part, no less important and arguably even more critical is the implementation of module look up in game. How do you find a module? Well, the Market is probably the easiest in-game way, applicable in most situations. You go to "Search" and type in words in the search bar, or click through categories and look at what's there. The "Compare" tool is a very useful augmentation to both of these. This is just not a good way to address searching for modules in a game as complex as EVE! When your search is limited by the name (i.e. the "Search" option) or by your knowledge of which market category the module is in, you're not taking any advantage of all the other info that's very important to a module. Meta levels, sizes, slots for one, which is all info already available in places like Items and cargoholds. To make the search process less complicated, you can't just paint over the old ugly structure with new drab and boring colors, you have to revuild it. And that is what didn't happen.
The OP's solution still doesn't address the restructuring of the way module lookup works, but it's providing a better solution for mitigating the issue through name changes, since the names encode some useful information in them, in a way that's pretty straightforward (and not obfuscated like "Upgraded"... wtf does that really mean?). And yes, I think the new names are boring, bland and kind of a let down considering what could have been done on the whole. |

Ris Dnalor
Black Rebel Rifter Club
186
 |
Posted - 2012.01.27 07:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
absolutely brilliant.
If the new names didn't suck, and in some cases make them even more difficult to find than before, then the changes would so much more acceptable. Thanks for expressing the issue so well.
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Ajita al Tchar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
 |
Posted - 2012.01.27 08:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bumpity bump for a good poast. |

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
2979
 |
Posted - 2012.01.27 08:23:00 -
[26] - Quote
I hate constantly going back but OP refined a bit more. I should probably shove it though a word document for spell/grammer check ><.
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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
2983
 |
Posted - 2012.01.27 17:27:00 -
[27] - Quote
Pilot Dima wrote:+1 to the OP's idea
+1 to the OP for providing criticism that is coherent, constructive, and appears to be well thought out rather than simple bitching and moaning.
-2 for CCP for not consulting with the people who have to use the product to see if someone might have a better idea that whatever it is the team in charge of this came up with (which is another half-baked CCP style beta-quality solution to a problem)
Team Questionable Decisions CCP Edition: please review alternative solutions to the problem of module names. Module names needed improvement, it's hard to deny that. You think you saw an easy way to solve the problem and rolled it out in this update, in lieu of other complicated UI improvements (S&I interface, for instance). I don't think you fully understand all the reasons why module names could use improvements, because if you did, you wouldn't have considered such a trivial and ineffective solution.
The big issue that makes the whole module thing complicated (rather than merely complex): It's hard to search for what you want (by the way, it still isn't really much easier)
In part this is due to naming conventions a) names are inconsistent across categories (Magnetic shield amplifier--which resist? 250mm as a small for projectile turrets but medium for hybrids, etc.) b) names often don't give any clue to the properties of the module (Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive--sounds like it's better than the Upgraded 1MN Microwarpdrive to some, I'm sure... oh wait, it's not better? derp) c) a lot of names for the same property (EM missiles of old: Gremlin, Mjolnir, etc.; Heavy missiles of today: Nova, Trauma, etc. similar alignment of different paradigms). Search for "Gremlin" pre-Crucible 1.1 and you are implicitly searching for both "rocket" and "EM damage". Search for "Mjolnir" today and you're searching for EM damage. If wanting "heavy EM missiles" you must search for "Mjolnir heavy" which incidentally won't show you the "Fury" and "Precision" variants.
Another part, no less important and arguably even more critical is the implementation of module look up in game. How do you find a module? Well, the Market is probably the easiest in-game way, applicable in most situations. You go to "Search" and type in words in the search bar, or click through categories and look at what's there. The "Compare" tool is a very useful augmentation to both of these. This is just not a good way to address searching for modules in a game as complex as EVE! When your search is limited by the name (i.e. the "Search" option) or by your knowledge of which market category the module is in, you're not taking any advantage of all the other info that's very important to a module. Meta levels, sizes, slots for one, which is all info already available in places like Items and cargoholds. To make the search process less complicated, you can't just paint over the old ugly structure with new drab and boring colors, you have to revuild it. And that is what didn't happen.
The OP's solution still doesn't address the restructuring of the way module lookup works, but it's providing a better solution for mitigating the issue through name changes, since the names encode some useful information in them, in a way that's pretty straightforward (and not obfuscated like "Upgraded"... wtf does that really mean?). And yes, I think the new names are boring, bland and kind of a let down considering what could have been done on the whole.
well we won in one department giving all the fofs a different name to seperate them from standard fire. I just didnt think about screaming loud enough on the test sever over the after burners.
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Valei Khurelem
235
 |
Posted - 2012.01.27 17:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
Perfect! Instead of naming modules and ammo's into cool names we thought of in five seconds to replace nerdy sci-fi ones lets change it to something we'd categorise pokemon with instead!
"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -a - CCP Ytterbium |

Trainwreck McGee
Ghost Ship Inc.
214
 |
Posted - 2012.01.27 17:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
Old naming conventions were dumb the new naming conventions are worse but who cares we will all just memorize them anyway and get on with playing. CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool |

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
2984
 |
Posted - 2012.01.27 19:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
Valei Khurelem wrote:Perfect! Instead of naming modules and ammo's into cool names we thought of in five seconds to replace nerdy sci-fi ones lets change it to something we'd categorise pokemon with instead!
Unfourutantely even with 565 of the little buggers know I can name most of them because of the theming.
Still missing a mespirit, uxie, regirock registeel creselina heatran gulpin swallot, and a skorpi, darpion.
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