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Chruker
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Posted - 2007.10.23 01:52:00 -
[1]
I know the jump freighters likely isn't coming with Revelation 3.0 since they weren't mentioned in the devblog about the tech 2 ships and other new things in the november patch.
Anyway, their typeIDs are copies of the regular freighters, and so far just the following have been changed: - Name - Description - Cargo capacity - Tech level 2
It is the last part that concerns me. If these really are going to be tech 2 versions, they are going to be very very very expensive. Following the pattern of other tech 2 ships they will: - Require multiple blueprint copies to get an invention success. However each freighter blueprint has a base copying time of over 8 weeks per run/copy. - Unknown number of datacores but given the number of cores used for battleship inventing I would expect it to be higher, due to it being a capital ship. - Building requirements on an invented bpc will include the tech 1 freighter
So in the end I hope CCP will do something to make inventing these things more profitable.
----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Speedup IGB table rendering |
Vladimir Tinakin
Caldari Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2007.10.23 04:38:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Vladimir Tinakin on 23/10/2007 04:40:04 Profitable? Hell, I'd settle for possible!
If they follow other ship invention, it will take 7-10 attempts per success on average. Possibly double if you have a string of "bad luck."
Each BPC can run about 200M if you buy it. If you make it, thats a YEAR in a pos to get all the needed copies. 6 months or so if you happen to own multiple BPOs...but you're missing out on manufacturing about 40 freighters and billions in profit in the interim.
So you're talking 2-4 billion per successful attempt. Figure something like 50-64 datacores per type, so thats another 180M per attempt....another 2-4 billion.
We're talking potentially half of a mothership BPO cost per successful invention here.
With the best chance decryptor, thats only 3-4 runs per success, which mitigates it somewhat. So Jump Freighters will "only" cost about 5-7 billion per ship if tech 2.
Given that the proposed cargo size is around 200k base (so around 300k with skills), and a rorqual can carry 3 iteron Vs...well, rorqual wins as far as a jump capable freighter goes: 150K m/3 (fully expanded/rigged transports/Itty Vs), longer range (5LY/jump base vs 3.5LY/jump suggested freighter base), better slot arrangement for faster recharge rates (unless JFs actually get slots), easily half the cost, and MUCH more readily available.
I see Tech 2 capitals as being made of fail--or just relegated to being uber expensive/rarely seen toys. Titans and moms at least offer unique capabilities...jump freighters are simply more convenient...but with pos jump bridges able to move standard freighters around in safety, and rorquals/carriers still able to jump in ample equipment to the front, this convenience might be obsolete before it arrives. ----------------------------------------------- Adm Vladimir Tinakin CFO Hadean Drive Yards |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.10.23 06:38:00 -
[3]
Maybe if they can move through gates in high sec they will have a special niche.
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Chruker
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Posted - 2007.10.23 07:34:00 -
[4]
It would make more sense just to make it tier 2 instead of tech 2.
----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Speedup IGB table rendering |
Chruker
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Posted - 2007.10.23 07:36:00 -
[5]
Of course they could also make this the first item where you can invent the tech 2 BPO from a tech 1 BPO.
----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Speedup IGB table rendering |
Admiral Nova
Strike Team Nova
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Posted - 2007.10.23 12:09:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Admiral Nova on 23/10/2007 12:11:14 Realistically these need to be Tech 1.
Tech 2 in cap ships just cannot happen unless they reduce the copy time from capital prints drastically, even then....
I don't see any reason to make these tech 2.... Of course the reality is aside from 'crystal ball' speculation the only REAL info we have was a single line in a dev blog.... I hope we don't get 99% of the way towards implementation before CCP releases details and then decide since they have the models done it's too late to change....
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Taris Gedar
Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.10.23 13:04:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin Given that the proposed cargo size is around 200k base (so around 300k with skills), and a rorqual can carry 3 iteron Vs...well, rorqual wins as far as a jump capable freighter goes: 150K m/3 (fully expanded/rigged transports/Itty Vs), longer range (5LY/jump base vs 3.5LY/jump suggested freighter base), better slot arrangement for faster recharge rates (unless JFs actually get slots), easily half the cost, and MUCH more readily available.
*shhh* ..when you tell them too much, they will nerf the Rorqual instead of helping with the invention ;)
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Laendra
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Posted - 2007.10.23 13:47:00 -
[8]
I agree with others here...unless CCP is willing to make drastic changes to invention/copying of capital ship blueprints, then T2 Cap Ships are just too time prohibitive and the jump freighters need to be tier 2 not tech 2. -------------------
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RaTTuS
BIG Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.10.23 13:51:00 -
[9]
looks like it is going to be 27days to copy and then inventions ... long times -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve [Now Verified] & RaTTuS Home
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2007.10.23 16:54:00 -
[10]
I can build a freighter for around 730M I can sell a freighter for around 930M
So every 12 days build time I can make 200M on a freighter BPO. I need ( roughly averaged out ) the same cost in capital component BPO's for each freighter BPO.
So the Value to me of a freighter BPO is 100M over 12Days or 8.33M per day.
It takes 6 weeks in station to produce a BPC.
6 x 7 x 8.33 = 350M
So a bpc has a value to me of 350M
Lets assume that the base chance of invention stays the same at 20% for a ship Lets also assume that the number of output runs from invention stays the same.
Using a Best chance Dycryptor 20M I get 4 runs on the output bpc + 1 run for the input BPC being max runs which I think it is even though its only 1 run.
A best chance dyc should give a 5 run BPC output.
assuming 64 datacore of each type
Per run invention will cost.
BPC 350M DYC 20M Mech Eng x 64 = 128M Starship x 64 = 12M
Each Invention run therefore costs 510M
Averageing out to output runs
510M / 0.2 ( base chance ) / 1.3 ( best chance dyc improvement ) / 5 ( number of output runs ) = 392M
So I am looking at a Tech II BPC cost of 392M per run.
Build cost of jump freighter.
392M ( BPC ) 930M ( Tech I Freighter ) + tech II comps + morphite
So if capital invention is inline with other ship building the final cost of a jump freighter will be no cheaper than 1.32B isk
Depends largelly on the extra material requirements but 2B is probably not too far off I guess.
Give myself some profit for all the goddam hassle Sales price = 2.4B ?
This approx 3 times the cost of a carrier.
What would you prefer to buy for your corp for 2.4B ? a) 1 unarmed defenceless jump freighter than can carry 250K m3 b) 3 heavily armed carriers that between them can carry 250k m3 and jump further in 1 go and be used for carrying ships and be used for other stuff other than shuttling stuff to/from empire.
Verdict
I think the Jump Freighter is a non starter as a tech II ship if invention/construction is along the line of current tech II ships.
The OP is right these need to be Tier II ships that are constructed from capital components ( cargo , engine , constuction , jump drive , computer , armor plate ) and should cost around 900 - 1.2Bto build.
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Missy Saints
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Posted - 2007.10.23 17:21:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Chruker I know the jump freighters likely isn't coming with Revelation 3.0 since they weren't mentioned in the devblog about the tech 2 ships and other new things in the november patch.
Anyway, their typeIDs are copies of the regular freighters, and so far just the following have been changed: - Name - Description - Cargo capacity - Tech level 2
It is the last part that concerns me. If these really are going to be tech 2 versions, they are going to be very very very expensive. Following the pattern of other tech 2 ships they will: - Require multiple blueprint copies to get an invention success. However each freighter blueprint has a base copying time of over 8 weeks per run/copy. - Unknown number of datacores but given the number of cores used for battleship inventing I would expect it to be higher, due to it being a capital ship. - Building requirements on an invented bpc will include the tech 1 freighter
So in the end I hope CCP will do something to make inventing these things more profitable.
http://myeve.eve-online.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=1603&tid=1&sid=801616790 BUT they were mentioned here !! And new blog stated more to come.
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Bund
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.24 00:21:00 -
[12]
Mothership and Titan production have demonstrated sufficient logistical and monetary hurdles to make certain ships more "special" than others. There should NEVER be tech 2 or tech 3 invention-only ships in Eve. Use the existing, well understood, balanced, and working model of adjusting the build requirements, and the skills necessary to build and pilot the ships to manage their cost and popularity. Don't try to shoehorn capitals into the invention model. It doesn't fit, and more importantly IT DOESN'T NEED TO.
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