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MarsellusWallace II
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Posted - 2007.10.21 10:17:00 -
[1]
Some someone drunk off of brandy and icecream on the PL forums thinks that they were an integral part of the downfall of RISE......
okay i think everyone in pl should read this post because its basically how we played in the downfall of rise as we knew it(as a spaceholding alliance). tldr at bottom
rise used to live in "the triangle", a constellation of systems isolated from the rest of the world by a string of 4 systems that have only two gates each. they could get forewarning of an enemy fleet 5 or 6 jumps out from scouts that are always online and positioned in those systems that enemies are forced to pass through to get to RISE space. when RISE numbers were high, this was a strategic asset to them because it gave them time and warning to pile onto the P8 gate and get the advantage to obliterate anything coming in, or else run since they also get warning of fleet numbers in this way too. later when their numbers were low it was a strategic liability becuase there was only one way out, and few had the sense to make any money out of the triangle itself. there were some problems that were a big contributing factor in the downfall of rise though.
first was a long period of peace they experienced before we attacked them full force. goons tried removing them months ago and failed, and afterwards completely ignored them for several months, boring the pvpers who left and overall decreacing the pvp competence of the alliance. they tried to invade KOS to keep things interesting, and were assaulting KW- before we appeared. but engaging in POS warfare with kos isnt exactly something that anyone would consider interesting, so pvpers kept leaving.
second was their wide open recruitment. goons filled rise up to the brim with spys and even a pandemic or two got in as well. so sometimes one of our own in the rise gang can increase the number of kills we get, and same with goons. spys havent played any key roles in rise downfall(for example offlining pos or large robberies) but they have contributed a lot in adding stress to the upper management of rise as well as causing their FCs to make more mistakes and impede the delivery of information. commands from the top of rise are supposed to be given to the CEOs who in turn tell everyone in the corps the exact instructions. iirc they are still recruiting, just convo any rise ceo if you want in =)
anyways, after we appeared in RISE space, their numbers were overwhelmingly high in the beginning when we started beating them down. even when we were cloaked and afk, the roaming rise gangs that were supposed to go out and have fun were instead ordered to guard core(as they called it) and usually spent most of their time at a pos in RIT, more afk then not, using the "bore them to leave" strategy. this was a bad strategic decision on the part of rise leadership, causing their participation to drop faster then it could have otherwise. after a certain point(when the everpresent snigg gangs could do whatever they wanted all day, and npc and whatever), the rise leadership decided to try a different tack, and ordered the alliance out of the triangle and into AZN to assist bob in fleet ops. this was pretty much the fatal mistake that killed RISE participation. if you've been in the corp for any decent length of time you'll have seen how much moving kills our daily participation, well it happened to RISE as well. that left all rise systems wide open for afk snigg armageddons to take down their station services while going to the store and whatever. with cloning down in all three systems, RISE pretty much freaked out because they couldn't respawn in the triangle if they wanted to. Leadership ordered them to move BACK to the triangle. so take that drop in participation from moving, and multiply by two. this was pretty much the final nail in any hope of rise being able to overpower our gangs, and the rest of the station services went down and did not come back for any significant length of time. |
MorbidAngelLust
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Posted - 2007.10.21 10:19:00 -
[2]
Edited by: MorbidAngelLust on 21/10/2007 10:30:34 Edited by: MorbidAngelLust on 21/10/2007 10:25:54 People were ordered to keep their clone at AZN and some ships, and travel to the triangle if they died. This kind of arrangement is messy and caused more of them to die in the trip down. RISE continued to fester in this state while we killed the rest of their services and started working on their small posses. saying rise leadership was frustrated is a severe understatement. some real active, contributing people have left rise due to general futility in any attempts at doing anything. for example, fleet commanders. their own frustration showed up in arguments with other members of leadership, less online activity, and leaving. before TCF started dropping towers and dreads, we were looking at key RISE moon mining posses and were going to try removing their second to last source of alliance income to make them unable to pay rent. But rise were already ripe for the killing, average online in alliance was around 100 every day and numbers in the triangle were in the single digits, sometimes RIT was clear of them. RISE existed as a territory holding alliance by game mechanics only, and we didn't have the resources to knock down well armed posses(we need more dreads!).
at the time of TCF attacking, rise was pretty much begging BOB for help. The reason pandemic were attacking RISE instead of a larger entity was not only because shamis said so, but because our kind of force isn't something that unkie bob can remove. sure 100 man gate camps all day might do it but bob aren't going to invest that sort of effort into mere small fry like us. we were perfect for the job, basically. for a month or two before TCF showed up, pandemic were destroying rise's ability to do anything, so when the time actually came, average fleets(the large capital scheduled-a-day-in-advance type) defending RISE space were minus 50 or so people, comparing RISE fleet sizes before we showed up and today. At this point in time BOB and MC were busy in catch with IAC and IAC had just lost FAT. several things happened in quick succession now and ill try to explain them in the clearest way possible:
IAC: at the time just lost some systems and taking a lot of heat from BOB, MC, and assorted pets MC: at the time under "contract" providing capital support for BOB, attacking IAC space BOB: at the time was also attacking IAC RISE: zero fleet size, beginning to be attacked by TCF. were considering resorting to paying KIA to remove us. i tried undercutting KIA but rise refused me because 1. we smacked too much and leadership took it personally and 2. they think we're afraid of KIA us: camping RISE space all day and soon moving out. we are able to overpower them at almost all times of the day and take out most station services
at this point RISE had just paid a fat 6 bil in rent to BOB and were getting pretty frustrated. rent is waived when a pet is invaded, and this pet had just paid rent and is also being invaded. they began trying to get a refund, or defense. since promises for defense(and a lot of other promises like freighter bridging) were not fulfilled, they were getting pretty irritated at BOB. apparently BOB did not want to gve the ISK back.
at this point, goons began attacking RISE in earnest. capital ships big camps and everything. pandemic moved out, our work was done.
this action prompted BOB to defend goon space. they were successfully baited into attack. the beautiful thing about all of this is that while goons cant take on BOB and MC together due to numbers, they can currently defeat bob or mc in a capital fight if they fought them separately. with MC left in catch and bob assisting rise in feyth, goons were able to pretty much stamp all over any bob forces with ease. a lot of this had to do with our work in the month previous, as the vast majority of RISE defense gangs were BOB and the extra rise numbers could not be used against goons. MC left IAC space for unrelated reasons, and this left IAAAC to have a bit of a break and regain their old space, effective
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Mr Broker
Amarr Station Gremlings
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Posted - 2007.10.21 10:21:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Mr Broker on 21/10/2007 10:21:49 first
edit: didn't read, too long
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Jumpgate Jack
Northern Exposure
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Posted - 2007.10.21 10:22:00 -
[4]
My eyes...
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Kasak Black
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.10.21 10:25:00 -
[5]
THE WALL!
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MarsellusWallace II
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Posted - 2007.10.21 10:27:00 -
[6]
effectively negating all the work that BOB/MC has done in the past month or two.
Also a less apparent(but more important) effect was the toll we took on the leadership. the BOB assistance was actually delayed by an entire day because there was a failure in rise leadership communication to get BOB a safe place to cyno into the systems. later on, failure to properly re-stront towers cost RISE/BOB several freshly repaired towers. throughout the TCF and goon invasion, badly stronted towers cost RISE more posses. the occasional offline pos also showed their fatigue and disorganization.
at this point in time i revealed that we had been reading RISE director forums the entire time. at this point, i didn't really care about losing forum access(which i ended up doing), the harm done was worth it. There was a RISE CEO that was about to leave and I got into convos with him, he gave me his access as his last act of betrayal to an alliance that he believed was not worth the space it held. Thanks to him, i distributed a lot of information to the people i thought could use it the most at the time(which were goons and us mostly), mostly in the form of saved posts from their director forums. but at this point i decided to dump everything for several reasons. first i didnt want rise to get that refund from bob. so caod became magically filled with rise ceo's smacking their bob overlords and complaining about their shortcomings. hopefully making an already politically charged situation between BOB and RISE even more so. second, in their council forums they were already talking about moving their own things out without a word of this on the member forums. member level forums in fact were pretty quiet considering what was going on. most of the leadership posts in member level forums were pretty optimistic so i figured mittani could easily spin that. also, simply doing so adds quite a load of stress on them. when your private communications are violated by an unknown person and you dont know if the guy you need to talk to is the bad guy, its frustrating as hell. especially when the only way to fix the problem is to mass remove people and make things more difficult in the end. it might not even work, who really knows! and finally, since the practical effects to giving forum **** to online spacegrunts is the equivalent of giving real soldiers real ****, so i was told.
so yeah, that director forum ****, how did mittani get it? it was from me. lawl
after this happened, several RISE corps left, goon invasion being the last straw for them. the workload for keeping up posses to claim sov transferred to already burnt out logistic directors and making them want to leave too. it was like half of a failure cascade.
currently RISE only have sov in the triangle due to the 1 week sov4 timer. they are moving to fountain and will claim no space. I believe they will continue to pay rent(i will find out for sure later). we can finish them off and make them disband or move far away i believe, we just need to keep up the pressure, if it's worth it.
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Caffeine Overdose
Cold-Fury Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.21 10:30:00 -
[7]
you owe me a new blablabla-ometer.. mine exploded after the first two lines
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Ponderous Thunderstroke
Republic War Machine Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.21 10:36:00 -
[8]
IBTL. Both the alt, and the alt's alt, who co-posted the ex-pose-ay, don't have their corp tags on.
And they ramble.
And, they spell horrible.
Furthermore, they wall of text worse than I do.
Also, NATE. HAMMERTOWN.
Thank you.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.21 10:38:00 -
[9]
My attention span backbone!
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HotSeat
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.10.21 10:43:00 -
[10]
We camped RISE into home systems for 5 weeks, winning every engagement, until they would not fight anymore.
KOS,GS, TCF then came in and cleaned up the towers
RISE is gone
That's the story..... which everyone has already heard.
Only issue now is PL has become stupid from fighting such bad PVPer's, so we are running around stain getting back into form, and training new FC's
* If we have a forum spy, you think they could find more interesting stuff too post?
Sov 4 is nothing compared to the Power of the Grief !! |
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IHurricane
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.10.21 10:57:00 -
[11]
Edited by: IHurricane on 21/10/2007 10:59:35
Of all the things you could have posted, this is what you choose to do? And I hope for your sake, that you are not a PL alt...
---------------------------------------
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Promu
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Posted - 2007.10.21 10:59:00 -
[12]
PL did a good job rise are gone. next target please
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joshmorris
Ravenous Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.10.21 11:04:00 -
[13]
Edited by: joshmorris on 21/10/2007 11:04:18 The down fall of rise cause my link isnt in the game !! ,
oh and wall i just skimmed and saw , RISE , RISE, RISE, RISE ,RISE, RISE, RISE oh and BACK
Pos addition to solve all |
Centauris
Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.21 11:11:00 -
[14]
PL are such efficient bastards that you can say with 99% certainty that RISE is dead in a big part because of them :)
<3 PL
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Elohe
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.21 11:12:00 -
[15]
Pandemic is number 1 quote dis if you are downs
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Vio Geraci
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.21 11:13:00 -
[16]
Accurate as far as I can tell. Add more line breaks next time, please. Even if it's improper paragraphing, it's polite to do in an electronic medium.
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Vile rat
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.21 11:21:00 -
[17]
Hurf blurf.
HURF BLURF
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Smokie245
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.10.21 11:26:00 -
[18]
1. Whoever posted this from our forums is either a very good spy, or a moron in the alliance ( if you had posted "those" compromising pictures of our female members then I would have been impressed)
2. While Pandemic Legion played a big part in this, and this is written from the Pandemic point of view, it should not, in anyway, take away from the huge impact the Black Ops members from Goonswarm had in taking down RISE.
Please keep your signature below the 24000 bytes limit and please resize it.- Thx Pirlouit
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.21 11:31:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Smokie245 1. Whoever posted this from our forums is either a very good spy, or a moron in the alliance ( if you had posted "those" compromising pictures of our female members then I would have been impressed)
2. While Pandemic Legion played a big part in this, and this is written from the Pandemic point of view, it should not, in anyway, take away from the huge impact the Black Ops members from Goonswarm had in taking down RISE.
Im pretty sure if any alliance is going to understand morons ****posting in an alliance its us. No need for this sort of disclaimer bs.
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Zappapapa
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.10.21 11:33:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Zappapapa on 21/10/2007 11:34:19 PL killed RISE because we're better than all of you.
...or something
Originally by: Elohe Pandemic is number 1 quote dis if you are downs
Lies, SWA > PL
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Firkragg
Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.21 11:48:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ponderous Thunderstroke IBTL. Both the alt, and the alt's alt, who co-posted the ex-pose-ay, don't have their corp tags on.
And they ramble.
And, they spell horrible.
Furthermore, they wall of text worse than I do.
Also, NATE. HAMMERTOWN.
Thank you.
Agreed with this. It was quite funny to visit RIT and see 30 reds in system docked up and 5 pl guys sitting on a bubble on the gate.
The internal problems of RISE though have been very apparent recently even when viewed from the outside. The decent pvpers that they had (yes they had some) started to vanish or leave the alliance and there was a number of pos slip ups on thier part (unarmed faction poses and unfueled ones).
RISE also has a serious spy problem as stated in the op-walloftext. I remember stealing dozens of ships after we got the pos pasword to pretty much every pos in the triangle.
I would also like to counter these claims about the pos invasion of kos space being dull. When it was just KOS and RISE fighting it was quite interesting but usually if we brought equal numbers RISE called in DR and BOB (although we did once in engage at 3-1 odds for something to do). The boring bit was when we were all busy somewhere else as rise werent really doing anything in kw apart from sitting in pos.
I can honestly say im gonna miss rise it was fun having a nearby enemy to excahnge fire with. Soon we will have to start going miles just to get a fight :(
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Galgarak
Gallente Malus Spiritus
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:31:00 -
[22]
Do goons actually do anything in this war? i have been reading a lot of this stuff, and goons are hardly mentioned, maybe its time to take the swarm out of the federation until they pull their weight
Oh i know goons have a strong presence here on these forums but guys and gals get a strong presence in game too theres like 5000 of you aint there.credit is were credit is due
*covers himself in a fire proof blanket* Truth of M.Pire |
Ramlir
0.0 Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:36:00 -
[23]
Pull your weight goons, those several hundred POSes destroyed are simply freeing BoB from the chains of 0.0 warfare.
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William DeMeo
Gallente Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:36:00 -
[24]
lol. We need more of these posts.
Shadoo killed rise quote this if you're down. Yarr |
Urikko
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:37:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Urikko on 21/10/2007 12:37:10
Originally by: Galgarak Do goons actually do anything in this war? i have been reading a lot of this stuff, and goons are hardly mentioned, maybe its time to take the swarm out of the federation until they pull their weight
We have asked RA to increase our rent by five fold. We have done this so that we may unleash our inner jew in peace.
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Kiko Goatbiter
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:45:00 -
[26]
Pandemic Legion have Dungar. ~~
but they do destroy the theory you cant kill an alliance without engaging in pos warfare.
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Divine Beauty
North Eastern Swat
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:46:00 -
[27]
Originally by: William DeMeo lol. We need more of these posts.
Shadoo killed rise quote this if you're down.
obviousley.....
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Kiko Goatbiter
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:48:00 -
[28]
Why does your title say im a spy :(
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Galgarak
Gallente Malus Spiritus
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:54:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ramlir Pull your weight goons, those several hundred POSes destroyed are simply freeing BoB from the chains of 0.0 warfare.
Yes and we know how hard that is to go afk firing guns killing unnaposed posses, only thing they did there was spend isk and make a minor dent in Bobs wallet, and yes it is a minor dent if you add things up over time Truth of M.Pire |
Ramlir
0.0 Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.21 13:03:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Galgarak
Yes and we know how hard that is to go afk firing guns killing unnaposed posses, only thing they did there was spend isk and make a minor dent in Bobs wallet, and yes it is a minor dent if you add things up over time
True, really all goons were doing was blowing up some of BoB's pretty furniture. POSes serve no function but to shoot poor noobs who warp to a moon, right?
Furthermore, think of all that ammo you wasted goons. Now you know what it is to be owned.
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