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MIkhail Illiad
Fevered Imaginings
1
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Posted - 2012.01.23 17:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just wondering what people thoughts are on how big a gang can be before it is considered to not be "small" anymore?
Would you class it by fleet numbers i.e a squad or wing or is it comparative to what you are engaging?
DEATH TO SUPERCAPS! |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
330
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Posted - 2012.01.23 17:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Generally it means small in numbers, and no capital support.
What exactly "small in numbers" means varies. When you're alone, 20 people are a big fleet. In an alliance, 50 people could be a small gang. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
158
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Posted - 2012.01.23 17:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Small gang is that magic smallest number of ships, where you got zero losses against the others you just wiped. |
Grog Drinker
The Tuskers
20
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Posted - 2012.01.23 18:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
I view small gang more by the tactics implemented than the number of ships in fleet. Are you outnumbered? Are you trying to split your opponents forces? Are you trying to score kills and flee?
I have been in 8-10 man gangs where we can go from blobbing a "small gang" of 3 or 4 one minute then kiting and splitting a fleet of 30 the next. |
Noisrevbus
69
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Posted - 2012.01.23 20:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
As you've already seen there are many interpretations (some people shrug anything over 5 people off as not small anymore, others consider 50 people small).
I've always related to the ingame definitions myself, small to me is what fit in a squad, medium what fit in a wing and large what fit in one or more fleet.
It's usually a solid reference to fall back on, and most of the time it's pretty accurate when you try to explain your points to other people (give or take a few). |
King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
155
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Posted - 2012.01.23 21:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
It varies from perspective, but for me the following applies:
Small: a squad
Medium: half a wing
Large: full wing
Very large: 2 mostly full wings
blob/lag fest: More than 2 wings
The presence of capitals is not important. Blobbing is separate from this, that's referring to a tactic. Blobbing is when you bring epic overkill via numbers. That can be 100 vs 50, or 4 vs 1, it makes little difference. |
Noisrevbus
69
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Posted - 2012.01.23 21:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
After Rothgar's post i'd like to touch on the topic of "Blob" as well...
There are, just as with gang-sizes, alot of different definitions of blob or blobbing. The word is also used pretty interchangably as a measurement of scale and deragotory term so it's not that surprising that the definitions tend to be many and obscure. There are three major points or arguments that define it as i see it:
The first is the one Rothgar already brought up, comparative scale. Some people will cry blob the second you have a couple of ships more or less, but the breaking point is when numbers reaches the point where it becomes increasingly impossible to fight back while undermanned. That also means it's relative, and specificly relative to the overall performance of a given group. A good group will blob at a lower comparative scale. If you want some more concrete examples i'd say the line is crossed somewhere between 1:2 to 1:4, those are usually breaking points assuming you fight someone who are as well composed, prepared and experienced as yourself, to someone you may have advantages over in the same regard.
The second definition is my personal favourite. It's relative to organisation. You become a blob when you begin to bring numbers over your chosen tactic and concept simply because numbers are good and more is better. You have no specific use for adding those extra ships beyond weight and when weight is more important than role or objective, then you are a blob. That means that also by this definition of "blob" is relative. Certain concepts are built around larger numbers than others, but the definition apply to all.
The last definition, which i always considered a good one, was the one brought up by Marlona Sky (as far as i can remember) in an earlier discussion on the topic, which he for some reason unknown to me got alot of criticism for back then. I think it was a fairly honest and open apprach, what he said was that "a blobber is not someone who fight you with superior numbers, it's someone who refuse to fight you without them". It chimes in with the points i've made before about relativity. If you roam, in particular, its difficult adapting your size and concept to deal with all potential interactions. Rothgar touched on that as well. If you don't respond to the environment around you, and instead move around to create content, it's become quite customary to try to find a good average weight-balance and composition that can deal with a variety of different situations. It's how most well-composed, often undermanned (roaming-) PvP groups tend to build their concepts.
Somewhere inbetween all those definitions you'd probably find a common ground, that's somewhat accurate. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin.
Black Legion.
275
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Posted - 2012.01.24 07:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
MIkhail Illiad wrote:Just wondering what people thoughts are on how big a gang can be before it is considered to not be "small" anymore?
Would you class it by fleet numbers i.e a squad or wing or is it comparative to what you are engaging?
When I can fit everyone on my WL, it's a small-gang. |
fgft Athonille
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.01.24 08:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
the losing side is a small gang
the winning side is a blob
numbers are irrevelant |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
387
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Posted - 2012.01.24 09:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
I like to define it socially.
There's the ultra-small gang (up to 3-4), where people fly their solo ships, there are no specialist roles, and often no FC.
Then, a small gang is more organized, but you still are know who everyone is, what they are flying, and can recognize their voice on TS. This probably becomes impossible at 15 or so.
About the definition of blobber, I agree with the one Noisrevbus quoted from Marlona. It's not the fights you take, but the fights you refuse to take.
What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
241
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Posted - 2012.01.24 15:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
This is relative. It's like asking if a mile is a long distance or a short distance.
For me small group pvp is when you sign on see a anywhere from 1-5 friends that you decide to fleet and roam with.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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March rabbit
Ganse
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
118
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Posted - 2012.01.24 15:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
MIkhail Illiad wrote:Just wondering what people thoughts are on how big a gang can be before it is considered to not be "small" anymore?
Would you class it by fleet numbers i.e a squad or wing or is it comparative to what you are engaging?
when 2-3 cynabals + falcon kill solo carebear BS in anomaly - this is small gang warfare.
when carebears get 5-7 ships together and try to get those roamers - this is blobbing. |
Dai'nin Roi'nin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.01.24 16:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:MIkhail Illiad wrote:Just wondering what people thoughts are on how big a gang can be before it is considered to not be "small" anymore?
Would you class it by fleet numbers i.e a squad or wing or is it comparative to what you are engaging? when 2-3 cynabals + falcon kill solo carebear BS in anomaly - this is small gang warfare. when carebears get 5-7 ships together and try to get those roamers - this is blobbing.
So you bring x4 and it's Warfare, they bring under x2 and they are Blobbers.
Tricksy rabbit.
Self indulgent moral superiority, or in little words = subjective.
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
256
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Posted - 2012.01.24 17:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
Two pirate faction battleships and their seventy neutral guardian alts. |
Thelron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2012.01.24 18:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
Dai'nin Roi'nin wrote:March rabbit wrote:MIkhail Illiad wrote:Just wondering what people thoughts are on how big a gang can be before it is considered to not be "small" anymore?
Would you class it by fleet numbers i.e a squad or wing or is it comparative to what you are engaging? when 2-3 cynabals + falcon kill solo carebear BS in anomaly - this is small gang warfare. when carebears get 5-7 ships together and try to get those roamers - this is blobbing. So you bring x4 and it's Warfare, they bring under x2 and they are Blobbers. Tricksy rabbit. Self indulgent moral superiority, or in little words = subjective.
Pretty sure that was hugely sarcastic.
I like Noisrevbus' post the best so far... this is more of a "how you do things" topic than a straight-up body count. I'd personally even go further to differentiate between "small gang" and "small fleet" based on how (dis)orderly the group is, but I don't think that's a common distinction. (also, to me, disorderly doesn't mean disorganized and certainly doesn't mean ineffective... I just would consider a "small gang" to be the type of group where organization/coordination is inherent because everyone knows how everyone does stuff)
Likewise, "blobbing" is IMO different from old-fashioned "overwhelming force" again based on how (dis)orderly the group is... even a smallish group of "pile on the ships and use the fleet like a wrecking ball" would be a "blob," just probably not a terribly successful one. It's the lack of subtlety that counts. |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
97
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Posted - 2012.01.24 18:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
More than a pair less than a fleet.
3-20?
I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-a-aI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec.-aMake FW worth our time. Reword us for what we already do.Give us some more activities to do. |
Skywalker
MAFIA
Pirate Coalition
10
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Posted - 2012.01.24 21:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
Small is 1-5 pilots |
Princess Nexxala
The Rock Hard Roosters
22
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Posted - 2012.01.25 15:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
Thanks this really gave me a good laugh.
March rabbit wrote:
when 2-3 cynabals + falcon kill solo carebear BS in anomaly - this is small gang warfare.
when carebears get 5-7 ships together and try to get those roamers - this is blobbing.
Is sexy time? |
March rabbit
Ganse
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
118
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Posted - 2012.01.25 17:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
Dai'nin Roi'nin wrote:March rabbit wrote:MIkhail Illiad wrote:Just wondering what people thoughts are on how big a gang can be before it is considered to not be "small" anymore?
Would you class it by fleet numbers i.e a squad or wing or is it comparative to what you are engaging? when 2-3 cynabals + falcon kill solo carebear BS in anomaly - this is small gang warfare. when carebears get 5-7 ships together and try to get those roamers - this is blobbing. So you bring x4 and it's Warfare, they bring under x2 and they are Blobbers. Tricksy rabbit. Self indulgent moral superiority, or in little words = subjective.
interchange words "you" and "they" and you get my idea |
Fredfredbug4
Kings of Kill
EVE Animal Control
25
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Posted - 2012.01.25 20:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
It's really a matter of perspective. My general rule of thumb is anything around 35% of your total Alliance/Corp without any capital support.
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Cletus Graeme
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
12
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Posted - 2012.01.26 08:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:MIkhail Illiad wrote:Just wondering what people thoughts are on how big a gang can be before it is considered to not be "small" anymore?
Would you class it by fleet numbers i.e a squad or wing or is it comparative to what you are engaging? When I can fit everyone on my WL, it's a small-gang.
This. (CCP just increased the watchlist to 15 people but I think it still applies)
Roughly speaking:
Squad = small gang
Wing = big gang
Fleet = fleet! :)
It's not comparative. 50 pilots is still a large gang whether they gank somebody, blob a 10 man roaming squad or get blobbed by a fleet of 150. |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
391
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Posted - 2012.01.26 08:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
To provide an alternative definition: If you have to count wrecks to see what you lost, you were not in a small gang.
What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Mfume Apocal
Origin.
Black Legion.
278
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Posted - 2012.01.26 08:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:It's really a matter of perspective. My general rule of thumb is anything around 35% of your total Alliance/Corp without any capital support.
This leads to a ridiculous range of possible numbers, virtually all of them far larger than what most would consider a small gang. I'm in a small alliance (under 100 real people) and that would make 30 of us a small gang. No one (sane) considers that a small gang. |
Raiz Nhell
DEEP CORPS
9
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Posted - 2012.01.26 09:30:00 -
[24] - Quote
Did I get reduced to component atoms? Huge fleet
Did I get reduced to structure? GF but they brought more logi/dps/drones
Did my tank melt but we won? Small gang, we beat it by skill
Did I not lose any tank? GF but you guys really sucked...
It's like time, all relative....if I'm in a fleet 50 strong a small gang might be 5 & podded... If I'm solo 5 is massive overkill and obviously unfair...
P.S. If your fighting fair your giving someone an unfair advantage...
I'm so carebear my Pod bleeds rainbow...
Beers + nullsec + dodgy fit = Loss mail |
xplosiv
State War Academy
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.01.27 01:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
Small is relative. But both traditionally and practically i would say small gangs are 3-7 guys.
As two guys are hard to refer to as a gang and when you get to the 10 area it's starting to be only small in relation to other bigger gangs.
if a gang entered a system i was docked in. And i was on vent i would probably only say small gang at around 5 guys.
There is no set answer but i would say its when a gang meets the set criteria above you can class it as small.
There is some cross over though between fleet and gang for me. A large gang would be around 20 guys but this is also small fleet area.
I known a few guys over the years who scale gangs under 10 and fleets above. |
Menardii
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.01.29 13:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
Keep in mind OP, we live in an age where a guy in a BS, with his falcon alt, guardian alt, and off-grid booster passes for "solo"
"Whoever said crime doesn't pay obviously never managed a criminal empire." |
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