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Olli Hokkanen
Full Life Alternative
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Posted - 2007.09.25 10:33:00 -
[301]
in RA space motherships fly pilots!
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente The Illuminati.
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Posted - 2007.09.25 10:57:00 -
[302]
Originally by: Ventosus
Quote: Want to be realistic? If I went through the trouble to get a supercap to use it exclusively for lowsec camping, you could bet your ass
You are missing the point. Point beeing we knew that thoose ships where enough. period.
If you had fitted otherwise, we wouldt have that knowledge. period.
2 diffrent cases, one happened, another is theory.
and x13 stop discussing this with Zakma, thanks.
M8 there is always gonna be a few ppl who say that if they had fitted this or that or the other that they would have won/survived its called 20/20 hindsight (also known as fools wisdom) although id have thought that a member of MC would have had more respect for your achievment considering that they tend to go in for high profile killings.
uber gratz on a well planned and perfectly exicuted op.
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Terramir
The OSS
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Posted - 2007.09.25 11:00:00 -
[303]
Originally by: JennyCraigSuccessStory
Originally by: Strife Phoenix So The End, you still crying?
apparantly he's quitting. One of his alts for sale.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=601087
And here's his post about leaving.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=197799
His reputation is worthless, he has no pvp skill, he blackmails people... no wonder he's gone. LMAO
uhhhhh... that thread you posted of him quitting was from 2 years ago. Maybe he should have quit then though?$@
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nakKEDK
Gallente Aggressive Tendencies Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2007.09.25 12:13:00 -
[304]
awesome job guy :D
btw how the hell do you have iskies for 2 ms in the corp >.<
I R teh new forum wh*re
Im fly gallente but i kinda know most setups for all ships ;)
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Barthezz
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.25 12:32:00 -
[305]
Originally by: ZaKma Want to be realistic? If I went through the trouble to get a supercap to use it exclusively for lowsec camping, you could bet your ass off that I'd have a cap fitting on it. It's insane how much regen you can get with a proper setup.
I'm with x13 on this tbh, there's no way he could have gotten out of there with a cyno even with 'proper' fittings unless with proper you mean all cap-relays (except 1 for the capital rep).
A Nyx with 2 cap-relays and 3-4 cap rechargers (T2) (not sure if the EFT setup had 3 or 4 rechargers) and 1x CCC T1 and 2x CCC T2 regens around 400-500 cap / sec at PEAK (which is around 30% cap).
Assuming x13 took 7 BS with 8 heavy neuts each, it would mean that the first cycle would bring a full-cap nyx from 85k -> 52k (give or take), the Nyx however needs 62k (give or take) to jump, which means it would need to regen 10k cap within 24 seconds.
Lets go 1 step further, 10.000 / 24 = 416 cap / sec at 61% cap?
Very unlikely, not with a 2-cap relay 3-4 cap recharger (t2) setup. He'd need way above 600-700cap/sec (at peak) to get the needed 416 cap/sec at 61%.
As we have no information on how many battleships where there and what their fittings where, I'm assuming at least 8-10 BS and I assume (as they brought in capitals for damage) that all of those where setup with full-heavy-neuts, which would knock off even more then 33k which means his cap / sec need would increase dramatically !
Just to show you that example, adding 1 more 8-slot neut BS removes an additional 4800 cap , as such each BS results in an additional 200 cap / sec need!
So lets assume 10x 8-slot neuts BS, thats 4800 * 10 cap gone dropping the nyx's cap to 37k meaning he'd need to regen 25k cap within 24 seconds or 1041 cap / sec at his less then optimal cap-regen.
Good luck with a fit that regens that amount. Impossible, no, unlikely, yes. ---
Dev's give us a lag-update! |
Steve Hawkings
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Posted - 2007.09.25 12:43:00 -
[306]
lies
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Cippalippus Primus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.25 12:45:00 -
[307]
Originally by: Barthezz words
that's not a cap setup. A cap setup would mean every single slot devoted to cap recharge. Even with a vanilla t2 fitting for the poor (lol) Nyx pilot, you get a recharge of less than 2 minutes- just using t2 cap rec and t2 cap power relays. This means that the Nyx pilot is however a bit stupid because he's spending 30 millions to fit a ship that costs... how much? If you follow the golden fitting rule (tm) and spend the same on modules as the cost of your ship, you can afford some nice cap rechargers/cap relays and further push it down to the level where the 24 seconds neut cycle is longer than your cap recharge.
Why would you do that? Because a Nyx has enough hitpoints to go make a coffee, log your cyno alt, and jump away. The only way to kill a nyx that way would be to have enough neuts alternating and pushing the cap down as it recharges. Enough neuts in this case meaning A LOT.
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Altai Saker
Omniscient Order Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.09.25 12:48:00 -
[308]
I don't see why this is being taken as some sort of breakthrough, everyone with a calculator and/or 64 Heavy neuts plus their own ms to practice bumping or boxing knows this is not all that incredible.
That being said congrats on being the first to do it x13.
http://www.omniscient-order.com/
Sahwoolo Etoophie is a noob! Noob and proud -Sahwoolo
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Barthezz
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.25 12:55:00 -
[309]
Originally by: Cippalippus Primus Enough neuts in this case meaning A LOT.
I think your missing the point that each BS added (past the initial 6 needed to stop it from jumping) to neutralize adds 200 cap/sec required.
I think your missing the point that between 40% -> 100% and below 25% your cap / sec is far from optimal.
You show me a setup thats required to regen 1000 cap / sec at 41% all the way up to 72%. As noted, the max cap regen that EFT shows is around 30-35% cap. Above and below that its far from optimal.
Unless you go extremely expensive, I very much doubt anyone would realistically have the cap regen needed to jump out when 10-14 neut-BS get a jump on you.
But show me a setup and you might convince me, not that it matters as x13 will most likely have ship-scanned Mr. End before attacking. ---
Dev's give us a lag-update! |
Locke Deathroe
Clan 86 Antesignani Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.25 13:02:00 -
[310]
Way to think x13! Good show indeed
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Duke Grail
Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.25 13:13:00 -
[311]
i just read this announcement after being away from game for a couple days and i have this to say:
hahahahahahahahahahaha
also: this is what happens when you have more isk/SP than common sense or intelegence.
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borup
Blood Covenant
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Posted - 2007.09.25 13:24:00 -
[312]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
M8 there is always gonna be a few ppl who say that if they had fitted this or that or the other that they would have won/survived its called 20/20 hindsight (also known as fools wisdom) although id have thought that a member of MC would have had more respect for your achievment considering that they tend to go in for high profile killings.
uber gratz on a well planned and perfectly exicuted op.
nice post
x13 remember, first guy who tried to diss your kill doesnt even know moms cant be webbed only good thing in zakma's post was his signature
respect!
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Lord Quad
Murder-Death-Kill
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Posted - 2007.09.25 13:28:00 -
[313]
Originally by: Barthezz
Originally by: Cippalippus Primus Enough neuts in this case meaning A LOT.
I think your missing the point that each BS added (past the initial 6 needed to stop it from jumping) to neutralize adds 200 cap/sec required.
I think your missing the point that between 40% -> 100% and below 25% your cap / sec is far from optimal.
You show me a setup thats required to regen 1000 cap / sec at 41% all the way up to 72%. As noted, the max cap regen that EFT shows is around 30-35% cap. Above and below that its far from optimal.
Unless you go extremely expensive, I very much doubt anyone would realistically have the cap regen needed to jump out when 10-14 neut-BS get a jump on you.
But show me a setup and you might convince me, not that it matters as x13 will most likely have ship-scanned Mr. End before attacking.
Our CEO has been preaching this for sometime...too bad everyone now knows the secrets, will make it harder for others to catch one of these rogue moms!
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Cippalippus Primus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.25 13:53:00 -
[314]
Originally by: Barthezz
Originally by: Cippalippus Primus Enough neuts in this case meaning A LOT.
I think your missing the point that each BS added (past the initial 6 needed to stop it from jumping) to neutralize adds 200 cap/sec required.
I think your missing the point that between 40% -> 100% and below 25% your cap / sec is far from optimal.
You show me a setup thats required to regen 1000 cap / sec at 41% all the way up to 72%. As noted, the max cap regen that EFT shows is around 30-35% cap. Above and below that its far from optimal.
Unless you go extremely expensive, I very much doubt anyone would realistically have the cap regen needed to jump out when 10-14 neut-BS get a jump on you.
But show me a setup and you might convince me, not that it matters as x13 will most likely have ship-scanned Mr. End before attacking.
We're just theorycrafting here are we? I'm glad that mothership died and x13 executed a wonderful plan. IAC are our brosefs too, so no hard feelings and whatsoever. Probably uneeded but important premise before this math galore turns into a flamefest, which isn't my intention.
This said: a fully t2 cap regen dumps the cap recharge to below 2 minutes; if you want to spend a bit on it, and you really should after all because you're in the 2nd most expensive ship class of eve, you could slap some officer cap rechargers and cap relays for more cap recharge goodness.
Add to this fact that battleships are unlikely to permarun all their neuts (remember, they use cap too; and a lot of it). Remember that you can't jam or damp a mothership, so you can safely concentrate your drones on one target at once; the cyno doesn't have to be in the same system (in fact the contrary is very likely).
With all these premises, we can see that killing a cap regen mothership would've been much harder to kill; emphasis on *harder*, not impossible. From our understandings x13 knew the fittings, knew his habits, assembled an ad-hoc gang and striked perfectly. Which is by definition a good plan that worked out perfectly (insert a-team tune).
There is a reason why motherships used to be considered nearly impossible to kill, along with titans, before the supercap nerf patch.
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Barthezz
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.25 14:30:00 -
[315]
Originally by: Cippalippus Primus This said: a fully t2 cap regen dumps the cap recharge to below 2 minutes; if you want to spend a bit on it, and you really should after all because you're in the 2nd most expensive ship class of eve, you could slap some officer cap rechargers and cap relays for more cap recharge goodness.
Well I dont want to flame either but people saying the MS pilot sucked because he didnt have a 'proper fit' arent doing the math.
I can go on with maths forever (like the fact that a 2 minute regen on 85k cap is 'only' 1700 cap / sec at peak, which probably is not enough to regen the cap lost from 12-14 neut BS). I would like to end this by saying that (sadly enough) officer cap rechargers and cap relays are one of the most expensive modules (except for officer invul's) in the game atm.
Last time I saw a 36% cap recharger get sold it went for above 8b, even 24% versions are getting sold at 800m. Not that good on the relay prices but their also very expensive. Which is what I'm trying to point out that a setup like that quickly goes towards the unrealistic point.
I doubt any super cap except some of the early titans had such an expensive cap-regen setup. I can only dream of having 2x chelm rechargers on mine. ---
Dev's give us a lag-update! |
Cippalippus Primus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.25 15:53:00 -
[316]
Not saying it's realistic or easy or cheap, but doable? Yeah. 2 minutes (more like 90) seconds with t2 vanilla gets extremely down with officer or faction stuff, even if you don't fit a full rack of Draclira's. What's the point of getting in a mothership if you can't afford a bit of pricey modules?
On the other hand what's the point of tanking a mothership in low sec? What can possibly threaten it?
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Arcane Carnage
omen.
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Posted - 2007.09.25 16:40:00 -
[317]
Edited by: Arcane Carnage on 25/09/2007 16:40:33
Originally by: JennyCraigSuccessStory
Originally by: Strife Phoenix So The End, you still crying?
apparantly he's quitting. One of his alts for sale.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=601087
And here's his post about leaving.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=197799
His reputation is worthless, he has no pvp skill, he blackmails people... no wonder he's gone. LMAO
I posted that info, i posted that link... stop stealing my kudos
KTATHXBAI! -
Ures truly kickin' ass Carn |
Ms SkyFlyer
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Posted - 2007.09.25 16:55:00 -
[318]
Posted - 2005.07.06 11:29:00
^ a bit out of date perhaps.
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Osmonde
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Posted - 2007.09.25 16:59:00 -
[319]
thank you x13. That Nyx cost me about 500M isk a few weeks back.
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Turin
Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.09.25 19:21:00 -
[320]
Originally by: Alias11
Originally by: Turin Lets be fair here though. The pilot died because he was an idiot, not because of some breakthru in tactics X13 used or anything. Had this guy been on the ball, he would still have his mothership. What an idiot.
Still, EVERY Supercapital dies because the pilot is doing something stupid. Whether it's logging your mothership into a losing fight at a gate or cloaking your titan 100k off a gate. It's really a matter of adding together how stupid the pilot is being and how smart the enemy gang is being to figure out how likely it is that poor bastard is going to die
Maybe. But this guy was extra stupid appearantly. This does nothing to add to the genius of X13 or anything. It just adds to the stupidity factor of the MOM pilot.
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Tarantelita
Ragna Rok Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.25 21:26:00 -
[321]
nice
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hybridundertaker
Amarr coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.09.25 23:17:00 -
[322]
i fully endorse this service / product
EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER |
Cypherous
Minmatar Liberty Rogues
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Posted - 2007.09.26 15:06:00 -
[323]
Grats on the kill oh well guess they aren't as unkillable as people thought ;) ---------
Liberty Rogues Website
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MaxSkywalker
x13
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Posted - 2007.09.26 16:57:00 -
[324]
x13 mothership kill (nyx) FRAPS
Regards
MaxSkywalker x13
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Elefantmanden
Gallente x13
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Posted - 2007.09.26 18:42:00 -
[325]
jesus I am stil drunk after this
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Arngorf
Minmatar x13
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Posted - 2007.09.26 22:54:00 -
[326]
Originally by: Elefantmanden jesus I am stil drunk after this
When are you ever sober elef? ________________________________________________
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait i have untrashed this bug report and i will take care of it.
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Kuromugi
Caldari Beets and Gravy Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.09.26 22:59:00 -
[327]
heh, I heard about this a few days ago and this whole thing has a longer story than it seems. So I woke up one day, and Someone told me a Nyx was gate camping in Hysera, that's kinda something I dont see everyday, usually MS's and Capitals just jump in and out, anyways yes it was the Union Of Xtreme Military of M.Pire, so after watching them while I was cloaked for a while, (I didn't want to sound like a colplete ass but they were cramping our style) So I mentioned this little system of Tama a few jumps away, and Since it was on a autopilot route i said they should check it out, so. Not to bore everyone with this story, but I told them to go to Tama because I kinda wanted them out D:, and well i guess in a way, after they took my advice and went to Tama, I know I wasn't involved in the fight, grats to x13 btw, but I kinda feel indirectly involved in a destruction of MS.
amirite?
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Dapanman1
Amarr Beets and Gravy Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.09.27 01:27:00 -
[328]
Originally by: Kuromugi heh, I heard about this a few days ago and this whole thing has a longer story than it seems. So I woke up one day, and Someone told me a Nyx was gate camping in Hysera, that's kinda something I dont see everyday, usually MS's and Capitals just jump in and out, anyways yes it was the Union Of Xtreme Military of M.Pire, so after watching them while I was cloaked for a while, (I didn't want to sound like a colplete ass but they were cramping our style) So I mentioned this little system of Tama a few jumps away, and Since it was on a autopilot route i said they should check it out, so. Not to bore everyone with this story, but I told them to go to Tama because I kinda wanted them out D:, and well i guess in a way, after they took my advice and went to Tama, I know I wasn't involved in the fight, grats to x13 btw, but I kinda feel indirectly involved in a destruction of MS.
amirite?
YAURRITE Beets, you're among friends. |
Blue Flash
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Posted - 2007.09.27 04:35:00 -
[329]
Originally by: Alias11
Originally by: Turin Lets be fair here though. The pilot died because he was an idiot, not because of some breakthru in tactics X13 used or anything. Had this guy been on the ball, he would still have his mothership. What an idiot.
Still, EVERY Supercapital dies because the pilot is doing something stupid. Whether it's logging your mothership into a losing fight at a gate or cloaking your titan 100k off a gate. It's really a matter of adding together how stupid the pilot is being and how smart the enemy gang is being to figure out how likely it is that poor bastard is going to die
Not true. When Davlin Lotze lost his Wyvern, he couldn't fight back thanks to lag and desynch (Couldn't launch fighters). Now, you could consider the fact he didn't relog operator error, but the game mechanics shouldn't work like that, and the fact they are borked as such is CCP error, not a pilot's mistake. Fix the game and your inifinitives may hold true.
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MrRx7
Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.27 04:43:00 -
[330]
Originally by: Blue Flash
Originally by: Alias11
Originally by: Turin Lets be fair here though. The pilot died because he was an idiot, not because of some breakthru in tactics X13 used or anything. Had this guy been on the ball, he would still have his mothership. What an idiot.
Still, EVERY Supercapital dies because the pilot is doing something stupid. Whether it's logging your mothership into a losing fight at a gate or cloaking your titan 100k off a gate. It's really a matter of adding together how stupid the pilot is being and how smart the enemy gang is being to figure out how likely it is that poor bastard is going to die
Not true. When Davlin Lotze lost his Wyvern, he couldn't fight back thanks to lag and desynch (Couldn't launch fighters). Now, you could consider the fact he didn't relog operator error, but the game mechanics shouldn't work like that, and the fact they are borked as such is CCP error, not a pilot's mistake. Fix the game and your inifinitives may hold true.
I find it funny he magically couldent launch fighters directly after killing Ernest's raven right before he got caught. Yes he de-sync'd, but in the end it wouldent have mattered. he was going to die regardless.
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