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m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
49
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Posted - 2012.01.19 20:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
Tier 3 Marauders
How about a varient of Marauders to give us a little choice, huh? I don't think it would take much work... Just a new skin, change the fitting points and bonuses and done, new ship! XD
Caldari:
T2 Rokh (Kaalakiota) - similar bonuses as the Kronos. Don't screw it over with a range bonus though, give it a tracking bonus...
T2 Abaddon (Khanid) - similar bonuses as the Golem. But more in line with Khanid's normal ship bonuses.
T2 Maelstrom (Thucker Mix) - Not really sure here. Maybe a projectile/torp mix? Needs more discussion.
T2 Hyperion (CreoDron or Roden Shipyards) - Make it a logical progression from a Dominix. More bonused for drones, enough to give it the same dps as the level of the other ships will get. Drone ships need love and this would probably make a lot of people happy (I wouldn't be one of 'em).
I know the normal gun ship choice for Caldari's ships would be Ishukone, but I'm not a huge fan of the paintjob, and I bet plenty agree with me here. Plus the Kaalakiota theme on the Rokh would look freakin' sexy.
Also, I'm wondering if maybe the Golem should get it's bonuses looked at, maybe turned into a cruise missile boat while the Khanid Abaddon would get torp bonuses. Seems more fitting I think. Though, I'm sure a lot of Golem pilots would cry over the change... I personally haven't used the Golem BECAUSE it's torp boat.
Also, since we're on the topic of Marauders, I think their bonuses should get a little boost. They should get tractor beam and salvager bonuses similar or equal to those on the Noctis. I think the sensor strength and scan res could use a bit of a boost, too -_- |
Ogogov
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
6
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Posted - 2012.01.19 22:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
How about getting rid of, or fixing marauders first?
With the Noctis, they seem utterly pointless. |
m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
49
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Posted - 2012.01.19 23:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Notice my last paragraph :P |
Sellendis
The Ares project
41
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Posted - 2012.01.20 10:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
+1 on this
As it is now, salvage option for marauders is useless, Noctis can clear a field way faster than any marauder. And that leaves you time to pick and kill targets and not to juggle wrecks looking for the BS wreck or anything worthy around them.
Sensor wise, for a ship so advanced and improved compared to plain BS version (and 90m for regular and 900m for a marauder hull) to have sensors that are usually jammed by wrecks and asteroids defeats the purpose of the ship. I know that they need to have a weak spot, but a fresh look is needed on them.
As for new marauder hulls, well, we already have hulls from other Tier3 BS, so just a color scheme + new stats shouldn't be that hard to make. Lets say 2nd generation marauders could improve on 1st generation shortcomings. |
m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
49
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Posted - 2012.01.20 12:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
My thinking exactly. I'm running a Kronos right now, though I do use other ships in other missions in my main hub, and the thing is constantly jammed by Guristas. I was in the last room of Worlds Collide in Caldari space and was almost perma-jammed by two battleships. I could get two shots off before being jammed again, if I was lucky. That's just one example of many. |
Temuken Radzu
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
10
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Posted - 2012.01.20 20:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
m3talc0re X wrote:My thinking exactly. I'm running a Kronos right now, though I do use other ships in other missions in my main hub, and the thing is constantly jammed by Guristas. I was in the last room of Worlds Collide in Caldari space and was almost perma-jammed by two battleships. I could get two shots off before being jammed again, if I was lucky. That's just one example of many.
Marauders have generaly a very weak sensor strength, so they are easely jammed. Fighting Gustistas is who likes to jamm a lot is a bad idea.... |
m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
49
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Posted - 2012.01.20 21:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
That's kind of the point Radzu... |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
203
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Posted - 2012.01.20 21:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Marauders are fake t2 battleships made for fake gameplay (PvE). The best thing to do with them is make them gone from EVE. |
Kolya Medz
Kolya Inc.
30
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Posted - 2012.01.20 21:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
I made a thread on this a while back. New marauders is a YES, having them part of tiers is a NO. Tiers result is useless ships.
The idea is to create ships with a different specialization than existing marauders.
New marauders would follow existing marauder standards: 4 hardpoints and a 100% damage role bonus/ tractor beam bonus, crappy sensors, same resists, ect..
Khanid Torp Abbadon: (Does NOT fill same niche as Golem, notice the missing range bonus. Less range, more tank.)
7.5% armor rep bonus 5% explosion velocity bonus 7.5% target painter bonus 5% cap recharge bonus
Roden Drone Hyperion: Notice the lack of gun damage bonus. It's 4 turrets would be unbonused(other than the 100% hybrid turret bonus. It may need a slightly nerfed powergrid to keep its dps in line with other marauders.) Manufacturing corp is debatable here, Creodrone and Duvuolle Labs already have battleships, so I chose roden.
10% bonus to drone damage/hit points 10% web bonus 7.5% armor rep 7.5% drone MWD speed (or drone control range range?)
Ishikone Hybrid Rokh: would give Caldari gunboat pilots something decent battleship sized to train for, since ALL of their faction battleships (and pirate battleship) are missile boats. It does not fill the same niche as the kronos, notice the range bonus instead of tracking. Would also be slower than golem, since golem is intended for close range.
7.5% shield boost bonus 10% hybrid turret range 5% hybrid turret damage 7.5% target painter (maybe web, could be helpful with blaster fits.)
Core Complexions Arty Maelstrom: Vargur needs serious fitting mods for arty, its really an autocannon ship. This new ship would be much slower and have a larger sig than the vargur. Notice the lack of a tracking bonus and falloff bonus. It makes the vargur a better choice for autocannons.
7.5% shield boost bonus 5% bonus Large projectile turret damage (or rof, whichever is better for arty) 10% large projectile range bonus (doesn't do much for autocannons, but is helpful for arty) 7.5% bonus to target painting (would complement arty well, since its low rof makes killing small ships a pain.) |
Sellendis
The Ares project
41
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Posted - 2012.01.21 12:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Since marauders are supposed to be kind end game PvE ship, you should get your moneys worth with them. Whats the point in using a vargur, aside salvageing thats better done in Noctis anyway or a second account and less ammo usage, compaired to Machariel?
Mach is easier and faster to train, speed 200m/s, align time like Tengu, way better sensors then a marauder and same dmg, and it looks better, only downside is it uses more ammo. A pirate faction BS outperforms a marauder PvE (only) in every single thing it does. Nightmare can, and does, give Paladin a run for its money... Even worse thing is, that marauders would be worth it if only their sensors did a damn. Awesome ships that have sensors of a blind roadkill squirrel. |
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Ager Agemo
X-Factor Industries Synthetic Existence
33
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Posted - 2012.01.21 14:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
i completely agree, if you actually even take some time to look at even a normal navy raven fitting you can find that you can tank it better, give it more dps, and the same firing range of a golem.
i always have had the feeling both their tank lacks compared to tier 3 battleships, their dps lacks compared to faction battleships and some t1 battleships, and their pvp capabilities (ewar, mobility) are utterly underwhelming
i propose to alltogheter remove the tractor and salvager bonus and instead add marauders a bit more of PG and CPU and 1 turret slot or missile slot.
this would make them much more viable ships and create a role for them on pvp:
the guy with SICK DPS. |
m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
50
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Posted - 2012.01.21 14:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
I posted a reply before, but the forums ignored it... I'll have to wait till I get home later to make my reply again. |
Ogogov
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
7
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Posted - 2012.01.21 17:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kolya Medz wrote:I made a thread on this a while back. New marauders is a YES, having them part of tiers is a NO. Roden Drone Hyperion: Notice the lack of gun damage bonus. It's 4 turrets would be unbonused(other than the 100% hybrid turret bonus. It may need a slightly nerfed powergrid to keep its dps in line with other marauders.) Manufacturing corp is debatable here, Creodrone and Duvuolle Labs already have battleships, so I chose roden.
10% bonus to drone damage/hit points 10% web bonus 7.5% armor rep 7.5% drone MWD speed (or drone control range range?)
Please, no useless web bonus on a ship designed to engage at 30-100k. Armor rep bonus is also horrible. MWD on a battleship? no thanks.
Perhaps given the direction CCP is going with adding more PvP-like elements into PvE content (incursions, sleepers) there should be another take on Marauders entirely.
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m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
50
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Posted - 2012.01.21 21:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
Omg, wtf, seriously? This f'ing forum ignored my goddamn post again.
Not writing it all again. Basically: drone hyperion needs drone bonuses, not guns. Needs almost all, if not all, it's dps from the drones. |
m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
50
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Posted - 2012.01.22 02:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
I just realized I posted this in the wrong forum XD |
furious Trance
The Barbed Wire Canoe WTF Citizens
0
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Posted - 2012.01.24 14:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
Although i agree with the salvaging bonuses being useless nowadays, i have to really defend the concept of marauders as pve ships. the 3 utility slots give them a big advantage over all the other ships when flown as dual box ships or in small fleets.
Since about a month now i am using a combination of Vargur & Golem for ratting in angel space and they outperform any other ratting combination with 2 ships i have seen so far (titan + 1 support ship is the only exception). You can free up another 3-4 slots in mids/lows for tank/dps by using the 3 utility slots in a combat-supporting function.
i am pretty sure you can adapt that for any pve situation (missions or 0.0)
Now before you shout down a ship of any type, learn to fly it with maximum skills, spend a few days on working on the 100s of possible fittings and you might acually find a hidden potential you never expected. I learned that after shouting down torp golems for about a year until i bit trough it and maxxed out the skills for it until every one of them was at 5, and guess what the last 2 l5 skills and the right fit tipped the balance from just about decent to a really fun ship to fly.
if you are interested in the fittings i hinted there contact me ingame. I'll bee happy to help you out :)
P.S. i think the OP is not quite test server feedback since Tier3 marauders don't exist yet, now do they? -> Edit: OOPS missed your last post, sorry |
m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
50
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Posted - 2012.01.24 19:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
Marauders are and should stay primarily PvE ships. And these ships are meant to be solo boats. That's kinda the point of them. Also, these ships don't suffer due to lack of skills (as I'm near maximum for the three gun boats), it's the ships themselves. I'm no noob. I've flown these ships quite a bit, along with plenty of other ships. I've also dabbled in almost everything eve's got to offer. There's no lack of experience here. It's the ships. They need longer reaching tractors and faster cycling salvagers. Maybe even faster than the Noctis, since you can really only fit 1 or 2 salvagers on them vs 3 or 4 on the Noctis. As skill intensive as Marauders are, they're pathetic compared to other ships. Pirate faction ships out do them in almost every way. |
thub
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.01.24 21:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Here is the thing. A battleship of T2 components is going to be expensive. If it is not expensive, it wont have the proper power to be called a T2 BS. With that in mind, the black ops serve a VERY specialized PvP purpose, and marauders are too expensive for their power to serve as a PVP ship. The few willing to shell out over a bill per ship prefer to go with pirate BS like machs, bhaals, and such instead of marauders .
Making a bigger third tier T2 BS is complete BS, you would be much much much much better off by just creating T3 BS that would run ya about 1 bill + which could switch between things like BO, marauders, standard BS config and other junk. The main problem once again is.... you guessed it! COST. The sheer cost of T2 BS hulls are just going to make it not viable on a large scale for PvP, thereby making them carebear only ships most of the time. |
m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
50
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Posted - 2012.01.24 23:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
Yes, because we all know some extra choices in ships is a bad thing... This isn't a tier 2 marauder. It does obsolete the other marauders. A gun boat marauder for Caldari is needed. So is a the ones I suggested for the other races. Your T3 bs idea is the one that's a horrible idea. It's the same reason we aren't getting t3 frigs. It'd obsolete everything else and THAT'S a bad thing. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
255
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Posted - 2012.01.24 23:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
New ships for the sake of new ships, without any thought beyond 'lets make gankier, tankier versions of what we already have!' is a terrible idea. ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
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m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
50
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Posted - 2012.01.25 00:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
New ships for the sake of variety and choice. There's a hole thread against your tier system, why don't you go to it. |
Sarmatiko
460
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 01:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lets just draw another dozen of useless ships and then complain about rebalance! YAY!
How about cup of NO. There is enough PVE ships in EVE for all purposes. Current Marauders need only small fix with tractor bonus. |
m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
50
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Posted - 2012.01.25 05:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
I wish you could delete completely useless and unwarranted posts from your own threads... |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
255
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 08:22:00 -
[24] - Quote
m3talc0re X wrote:I wish you could delete completely useless and unwarranted posts from your own threads...
But then the thread would be somewhat confusing since your original post would be missing.
A second class of marauders is completely redundant, your chief motivation seems to be that you want to see different colour schemes rather than any gameplay factor, and your design concept could have fitted on to the back of a postage stamp. The way that you design a new range of ships is to think of a niche in the game that needs filling, then design the range to fit that niche. Throwing new ships at the game because you want slightly different versions of something we already have is pointless.
Tech 2 tier 3s will probably appear one day but it'll be when there's a good reason for them to exist and there are plenty of PvE capable battleships already available. ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
50
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Posted - 2012.01.25 14:39:00 -
[25] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:m3talc0re X wrote:I wish you could delete completely useless and unwarranted posts from your own threads... But then the thread would be somewhat confusing since your original post would be missing. A second class of marauders is completely redundant, your chief motivation seems to be that you want to see different colour schemes rather than any gameplay factor, and your design concept could have fitted on to the back of a postage stamp. The way that you design a new range of ships is to think of a niche in the game that needs filling, then design the range to fit that niche. Throwing new ships at the game because you want slightly different versions of something we already have is pointless. Tech 2 tier 3s will probably appear one day but it'll be when there's a good reason for them to exist and there are plenty of PvE capable battleships already available.
Oh, I'm sorry, so you completely fail to comprehend the fact that Caldari use railguns but have nothing really besides the Rokh, Amarr don't have a missile boat, Gallente's best drone boat is a Domi and Mini can't use arties. Being forced to train another race for your next ship is a **** poor excuse.
That's as much as I'm going to feed the trolls. Those of you that simply can't understand the point of the new marauders really have no business posting here. If you have some valid reason that we don't need these ships, by all means, post it. But if you're coming to reply with things like that with absolutely nothing to back up your claims, go somewhere else. If you can't understand the point of the new ships, I'm not going to waste any more of my time explaining it. |
Ager Agemo
X-Factor Industries Synthetic Existence
33
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Posted - 2012.01.25 16:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
thing is, one way or another marauders even suck in PVE. PVE is one of the few places where RAW DPS and Raw tank win its all about how fast you can kill idiot npcs.
the utility slots arent usefull really for salvaging noctis will obviusly make marauders useless on that, not to mention nerfs to npc drops have made it much less profitable.
i know this might sound a bit "i paid X sum so i should be ALLFTWBBQpowerfull" but lets be honest... for 1 billion ISK hulls... Marauders are ******* lame.
i believe if there is a niche that can be filled, is the DPS gap between capital ships and Battleships.
you know that range of DPS where no ship does damage between 2000-9000 dps (aside from ultra heavily pimped vindicators but again those arent marauders even).
if marauders are going to be pve ships that are mean to outperform their T1 varians, i would expect for a 10 times more expensive hull to AT VERY LEAST get twice the firepower.
TL;DR
their price does not scales well with their performance.
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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3021
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Posted - 2012.01.30 01:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
Feature and Ideas this away ->
Feedback for stuff popping up on Sisi goes here.
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m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
51
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Posted - 2012.01.30 01:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
m3talc0re X wrote:I just realized I posted this in the wrong forum XD ^^ |
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ISD Eshtir
Community Communications Liaisons
55
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Posted - 2012.01.30 10:07:00 -
[29] - Quote
Thread moved to features and Ideas forum section. ;-) ISD Eshtir Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
602
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 12:14:00 -
[30] - Quote
It's a good idea, maybe it could be more orientated towards the two types of command ships though? Same hulls but different stats and bonuses.
Or...
What about doing something different with the hulls?
Eg, The abaddon could be a torp ship, the hyperion a drone and shield ship, the Rokh a torp ship and the Mael an armour ship?
More sensor strength is definitely needed too. The Apostle : I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why? |
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