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Gestation
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Posted - 2007.09.14 22:25:00 -
[61] - Quote
 Originally by: XiticiX
Edited by: XiticiX on 14/09/2007 18:59:35
It sounds very intriging, to say the least.
I expect the developers should introduce it gradually, expanding upon the idea through multiple patches - see the direction it is taking, tweaking it, and adding content as the idea solidifies into something worthy.
I see Factional Warfare (FW) starting off as the basic ability to attack those players that choose to take part in FW in low-sec. A simple solution that allows for more small gang PVP in low-sec.
That said, I would like to eventually see the EVE universe change dynamically because of FW.
This can be accomplished many ways, some of which previous posters have mentioned.
An idea I had is to use the already implemented system of sovereignty. As wars are won/lost, sovereignty of that system is lost/gained. This should NOT be POS-spamming, but rather built around specific objectives of the war. A "Mission" could be broken down into smaller segments, satisfying the need for smaller gang warfare. These objectives could be small things such as taking out a sentry gun, or a small gang of enemies.
The objectives themselves would be a small part of a large-scale plan of the Faction you are fighting for. This would require a lot of scripting, somewhat in the way current storyline missions are built, but on a grander scale. Objectives - once completed by players - could have an affect on that particular missions' status as far as it's progression towards "completion" in concerned. When a missions has achieved success, that may mean that soverignty in the system is achieved. This will also rally the players to partake in FW if they want to continue to use the station or system for missioning/mining/carebear-type stuff, as for every offensive mission, there will be an opposing defensive mission for the other Faction.
This is a nice mix of PVP/PVE that Factional Warfare could accomodate for quite nicely, I believe. Getting the mission runners and the pure PVP players working together towards a common goal could be what Factional Warfare is about.
I'm very much looking forward to Faction Warfare though - whatever form it may take. Small-gang PVP is what EVE is currently lacking in, and any attempt made to bring that back to the game would be well-received I'm sure.
this
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Dalyn Arathon
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.09.14 23:04:00 -
[62] - Quote
Edited by: Dalyn Arathon on 14/09/2007 23:06:11
One of the immediate concerns that many from my own alliance have raised (usually immediately upon reading the new dev blog) is perhaps one of semantics, but also a rather important semantic point:
Will there be a way to fight against a faction without fighting for another one? Indeed, the entire language of factional warfare seems to be couched around fighting for a faction, instead of fighting against one.
It is very often stated (strangely enough, including in the dev blog under consideration ;-)) that Eve is a sandbox which the players are allowed to shape as they see fit, but it seems that this is a type of sand poured exclusively for those who want to play for the establishment, by the accepted rules of our imaginary society.
Will there be a method by which those of us who do not play by the rules of the establishment (aka, take sides or identify with one of the Empire nation-states of New Eden), be able to participate against said establishment? Will there be a place in factional warfare for revolutionaries, pirates, privateers, anarchists, unscrupulous mercenaries, etc?
I think that it is very important that CCP recognizes that there are a significant number of players who would like to participate in factional warfare without taking a side, and I hope that there is room for us in this wonderful new play area that you are designing.
Thanks :-).
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buyur ratloot
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Posted - 2007.09.14 23:15:00 -
[63] - Quote
What mechanisms will be put in place to keep this as small gang warfare? Will there be a balance between ship tpyes/points (aka tournament) and player skillpoints.
You rulled out instances, but seems that most low-sec/0.0 fighting is boring because one side or the other is always running from because fights aren't fair. How is FW going to be any different.
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.14 23:32:00 -
[64] - Quote
Well, I highly suggest that anyone who is an enemy to a faction and enters that factions space, should be shootable by anyone in that system. Anyone.
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Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil (mods@ccpgames.com) |
Danute Glashamir
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Posted - 2007.09.14 23:38:00 -
[65] - Quote
If you're gonna bring pirate allegiance into this then will they get access to tier 2 pirate nameds (true sansha, shadow, dark blood etc)and will the empires get their own version like Republic Tribal Navy, Amarr House, Caldari MegacorpCorp and Super-Debauched Federation stuff.
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Nuyan Zahedi
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.15 00:01:00 -
[66] - Quote
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
Before getting to that, I'd like to emphasise that I believe factional warfare should not require allegiance to be declared for anyone. Of course, it should be an option for those who want to do it. However, those who want to fight against a faction without declaring for another faction should have that option. Yes, of course, I would say that given my loyalties but I doubt we'd be the only people wanting that option, particularly if initially it only starts with the big four core empires.
Yep. I think it's the same for most 0.0 alliances, I don't see them fighting for some Empire faction. I hope there's an option to declare war on everyone aswell, which would still have some obvious disadvantages as being highly outnumbered and if you don't fight for a faction you won't be rewarded by a faction, but it should be possible.
As for docking rights. It should be possible as anyone of a faction to enter that factions high-sec systems, you'd just be a target for everyone and you wouldn't have much places to dock and hide. Which makes perfect sense to me. And there are probably "neutral" stations within 5J just about everywhere in Empire space.
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Ghostess
United Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2007.09.15 00:53:00 -
[67] - Quote
I think it will be important to see effects of the war. Things like systems being taken over. Borders changing. A problem with that could be that one empire might overtake all the others. A solution to this can be that systems have to be held. The longer they are held, the harder the resistance (in form of more and harder PvE missions FW players have to take in the system) and when the resistance has won a certain ammount of "ground" the system is freed and returned to original owner. After a certain time the resistance should ease up and the system should start to become a proper part of the new empire. Attempts to take it back should be made easier somehow as the resistance helps (while it still exists).
Now IF one faction starts to grow too large anyway it could just "shatter". The larger it is, the more internal politics and after a while a new faction is formed of a constellation. This might get taken back but it will reduce the "steamroller" effect of a too large faction. It can also give players who want another ideology to follow a chance to find a faction that suits them.
ALSO, I think it's very important to be able to "fight the establishment". Maybe someone is an anarchist. Maybe they want power to be very localised and not formed into large factions. Maybe they want no law at all. If so they should be able to fight for 0.0; to remove a system from a faction without giving it to another. These last things will of course require a lot more work than I think is presently planned but I think it is an important part of the future of FW to make it dynamic enough to be worth it.
One thing I really really REALLY hope is that there will be AT LEAST four sides. I do not want just the two blocks. I might work for caldari but I sure as hell don't accept the Amarr's slavery or religious nonsense. I'm proud of my Gallente blood but I do business and caldari space is where all the isk are.
CEO - UMC |
Grawshellar
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Posted - 2007.09.15 01:15:00 -
[68] - Quote
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
The current design is strongly PvP-centric - there are PvE elements, but the focus is on small gangs of fighters running around beating the snot out of each other for king and country (or equivalent).
Errr.. what is the payoff?
It sounds like factional warfare is just a (more)consensual PVP switch at this point. With a bit of an RP background.
Order/Chaos sucked when it was first done in UO 5ish years ago. What exactly does this system have over it, other then having 4 sides instead of 2?
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Ly Trang
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Posted - 2007.09.15 02:34:00 -
[69] - Quote
I want to see big fac fleets in it like the rev2 trailer.
and fac titans with big fleet around where i can dock and recive my missions from the titan comander ;)
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Wolfgang Jager
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.09.15 04:20:00 -
[70] - Quote
Originally by: CCP Ginger
This has been a hot topic of discussion here. There are alot of problems with denying docking rights to someone and the fact that the empires seem to have allowed each other to set up stations in their sovereign space is somewhat of an issue. But yes, its being discussed.
So how about making one key part of the design the siege and removal/conquest of these stations within the empires? It makes sense and would make for some great fights.
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Riley Craven
Caldari
Copacetic Corporation
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Posted - 2007.09.15 05:07:00 -
[71] - Quote
*Looks around for the awsomeness* Nope dont see any of it here.
Basically, this looks NOTHING like it was orginally sold to players. Faction Warfare as mentioned previously seemed more like players facing off against massive NPC fleets and actually forcing one side or the other to loose space (as in high sec empire space) meaning the face of Eve would change on a daily basis.
See thats what sold me to this game in the first place, players could actually change the landscape...
You've mentioned none of that in this implementation. I think you have screwed up so badly with POS warefare that you have pretty much given up hope on making it into what it should have been. Instead, you are changing faction warefare to give players an outlet so that warfare with small gangs is actually FEESABLE...
Further, this looks like nothing more than an excuse to get players into Low Sec, yet again. You havent managed to make LvL 5 missions worth it so my confidence in your implementation of factional warfare based on your past performance isnt exactly there. I know you guys are doing your 6:1 ratio, but none of that addresses the concerns I have outlined here.
Lastly, what really will be the point of all this? The point of war is to defeat your enemy take his space and live in bliss in it afterwards... Why do players need another excuse to engage in senseless combat when the combat we have now is so utterly broken? You say you can do this without the RP, but thats ALL this is!
Sorry to be a downer, but this just seems like another wasted feature. Missions against players Rping.... CVA and UK seemed to have done just fine without your feature...
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Nimani
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Posted - 2007.09.15 06:03:00 -
[72] - Quote
Will there be a overall objective for each faction or will it just be a bunch of mission that doesn't lead to anything in the end?
If this is going to be about pvp and based in low sec space how will the CONCORD sec status be handled? Being KOS in all of empire just because you have killed some Amarian scums doesn't sound like a winning solution.
How are you going to enforce small gang sizes?
Spawning faction NPCs to balance gang sizes might be a solution but probably not the best.
It would be nice to see large scale "missions" with a lot of small objectives so that you feel part of the faction and if you succed or fail at your mission will have a small impact on the overall perfomance of your faction.
/Nimani
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Erotic Irony
0bsession
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Posted - 2007.09.15 06:32:00 -
[73] - Quote
Originally by: Guomindong
# The aggregate of loyalty points in any low-sec system gained each day is summed and system sovereignty goes to the NPC force that has aquired the most loyalty points.
# System sovereignty spawns 0.0 quality gate rats of the type that holds sovereignty, and 0.0 belt rats of the type that are enemies of the faction that holds sovereignty.
# System sovereignty turns on/off agents of the apropriate type in the area.
We have a winner, Guo hit the nail on the head while the majority of these ideas belabor more worthless grinding. This model is good, you target players to gain rep and the ability to enable options vis a view friendly agents and 0.0 spawns rather than just dumping more isk into your wallet. Atleast this system demands some planning and 0.0 like resourcefulness rather than something that can only be brute forced by 20 people.
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Support Killmail Overhaul
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Cortei
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Posted - 2007.09.15 07:38:00 -
[74] - Quote
Edited by: Cortei on 15/09/2007 07:41:04
Edited by: Cortei on 15/09/2007 07:39:42
About docking rights to stations controlled by enemy factions in allied space, with some added suggestions:
How about declaring the stations as neutral ground through something like the Galactic Geneva Convention?
The space within a bubble around the station could be neutral ground, and breaking neutral ground and attacking would have consequences. Leaving neutral ground would of course make enemy pilots able to be fired on by the system's faction ships.
It would be even more intriguing if there were specific enemy stations within allied space that would be blockaded beyond the safety bubble(for fictional reasons), and that the blockading would interdict the neutral space bubble forcing all ships to drop from warp outside the blockade. Enemies would have to run the blockade going in and out so they could warp to safety.
I'd like to suggest some form of factional currency be the rewards from whatever factional warfare missions, bounties or pvp objectives are met. The currency could either be used in faction stores for various goods/trophies, or sold to other players on the market for isk. Ideally I'd like to see an actual factional currency exchange independent of but including the isk. I would like to be able to exchange my Caldari 'Greenbacks' for Minmatarr 'Geld', or just convert the Amarr 'Crowns' into ISK.
I think it would add just a little more realism and depth to the game, while allowing all players to be able to get specific faction gear while not specifically working with that faction.
I would also like to see factional war bonds that would show an actual affect in the conflict. Hit a certain cash investment from players into that faction, and suddenly the faction is flying ships that hit harder, faster, and last longer. The coupons received from the bond wouldn't necessarily impact the faction investment, but the payback of the initial would definitely affect the faction if the investment total dropped below the 'level.'
This would allow direct player involvement in what happens in the faction conflict, and would allow those not involved in the conflict pvp-wise to still influence it. The coupons could even be in the faction currency (the earlier suggestion), which could provide and alternate method to great goods/trophies.
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James Duar
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.15 08:30:00 -
[75] - Quote
Originally by: Erotic Irony
Originally by: Guomindong
# The aggregate of loyalty points in any low-sec system gained each day is summed and system sovereignty goes to the NPC force that has aquired the most loyalty points.
# System sovereignty spawns 0.0 quality gate rats of the type that holds sovereignty, and 0.0 belt rats of the type that are enemies of the faction that holds sovereignty.
# System sovereignty turns on/off agents of the apropriate type in the area.
We have a winner, Guo hit the nail on the head while the majority of these ideas belabor more worthless grinding. This model is good, you target players to gain rep and the ability to enable options vis a view friendly agents and 0.0 spawns rather than just dumping more isk into your wallet. Atleast this system demands some planning and 0.0 like resourcefulness rather than something that can only be brute forced by 20 people.
Quoting this for support.
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Blackback Starkiel
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Posted - 2007.09.15 08:51:00 -
[76] - Quote
Originally by: Ghostess
I think it will be important to see effects of the war. Things like systems being taken over. Borders changing. A problem with that could be that one empire might overtake all the others. A solution to this can be that systems have to be held. The longer they are held, the harder the resistance (in form of more and harder PvE missions FW players have to take in the system) and when the resistance has won a certain ammount of "ground" the system is freed and returned to original owner. After a certain time the resistance should ease up and the system should start to become a proper part of the new empire. Attempts to take it back should be made easier somehow as the resistance helps (while it still exists).
Now IF one faction starts to grow too large anyway it could just "shatter". The larger it is, the more internal politics and after a while a new faction is formed of a constellation. This might get taken back but it will reduce the "steamroller" effect of a too large faction. It can also give players who want another ideology to follow a chance to find a faction that suits them. [...]
I like this idea, If EVE is to really be a dynamic sandbox borders must be able to change, and Empires crumble. But game-wise it's of course not a good fdea if one faction is completely wiped out -- which could happen, especially since there are more players active in certain factions than in others (a sort of meta-fact not representing the fictional relative strengths). Ghostess' idea gives a good solution to this, I think. The "resistance" represented in harder and harder objectives for the attacking side and easier tasks for the defender is a subtle way to control and limit faction take-overs -- it makes sense that as space is lost, the empire core fleets gather to strike back, and rebellion arises in occupied territory to drive off the occupants. There is no doubt this would require a lot of balancing/mission writing, but it would create a reasonably dynamic world while still allowing meta-control and stopping it from collapsing completely.
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I think it makes sense to restrict docking at some stations in empire space if you're an "enemy of the state". But not all stations are directly owned by the respective empire, are they? Some are owned by various tribes, coorporations and so on that might be independent enough to allow docking for everyone.
Suggesion: Having a poor standing simply restricts your access to a subset of empire stations. As someone said, it makes no sense for e.g. Amarr ruling house stations to allow enemies beneath its roof. But a station owned by an independent holding company might (openly or covertly) find it good for business to "look the other way". I think this would be a simple solution to this problem, without having to create new "rebel stations" per se (even though that would be cool too!). It still makes life harder for people to hang out in enemy territory, but if your intel is good you will know what places will harbour you anyway (maybe this info could be handed out by your sides' agents, so you don't have to find out by yourself if the sentries shoot at you or not. Word of mouth is probably the main info source anyway).
A step further would be to randomly have some of these stations "rotate" every six months or so -- suddenly that station turns "loyal" (or have been pressured by the empire into being loyal) and kicks out all "enemy" coorporations/people stationed/docked there. Other stations will remain "open", and new ones will randomly "open up" to rebels to replace the ones turned loyal. If they are slow to evacuate their station after given notice, loyal navy forces will appear and siege the station -- their hideout has been found -- they have to fight their way out! Things like that would make life under the nose of the enemy feasible but not a stable life -- the way it should be, in my opinion.
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Blackback
Holographic gallery of my artwork |
Sfatia
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Posted - 2007.09.15 09:13:00 -
[77] - Quote
Edited by: Sfatia on 15/09/2007 09:15:07
Factional Warfare! read so much about it still dont have an idea how it will be..
You mean i fly through space and then i see someone shooting ammar faction at a stargate or will it be more like in an special area?
the problem i see with this factional warfare is people who are not involved at all in factional warfare will they be able to interfer in a fight me vs faction or not?
thats first to be solved then we can go to ideas and stuff..
another question is say i join up one faction.. for how much time do i join them? am i able to leavem if it dont suits me..what are the conditions and so on ..
will there be hordes of npc fighting each other too and such?
As u see there are many questions need to be clarified first.
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Nameless Assassin
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Posted - 2007.09.15 10:59:00 -
[78] - Quote
What about having PvP Arenas (there was a devblog eons ago that mentioned it)? I think we really need "PvP lite" - for both noobs to train, and for players who want occasional PvP.
BTW, it could bring a new features to EVE, like stakes for fights, etc.
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Huitzilopochtli Tlaloc
Forum Moderator
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Posted - 2007.09.15 11:17:00 -
[79] - Quote
an of course if you want to see the rest of that saying quoted at the bottom of the dev blog its in its entirety in my sig 
- Thanks Hutch.
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forum rules | mods@ccpgames.com
tWar is not the dreadful end to all things as mankind fears. Conflict brings balance to nature as it adapts, mutates, and transforms itself into something stronger than before. Mankind is the master of nature because we can choose those mutations on our own accord. We can accelerate the inevitable dominance of a species. Through war, we can make ourselves stronger at the time and place of our choosing. War is not hell, far from it. War is beautiful. War is divine.v
- Grand Admiral Mekioth Sarum, excerpt from a commencement speech to Paladin graduates of the Imperial Academy, 23215 AD |
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Ghostess
United Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2007.09.15 11:29:00 -
[80] - Quote
Edited by: Ghostess on 15/09/2007 11:30:23
Edited by: Ghostess on 15/09/2007 11:29:39
One more little detail:
NPC corps shouldn't use faction standing to decide if they let you into their stations (or whatever sanctions they put on you). Instead their corp standing should matter and be derived from how much they like the state they are in.
Example:
Caldari Navy naturally loves Caldari State and have standing 10 towards them. If you do something bad against Caldari State which makes your standing with them drop 2.4 points your standing with Caldari Navy should drop 2.4 points as well.
Example 2:
[Random corp name here] just barely accepts Caldari State and have a standing at 0.01. If you now do something bad against Caldari State which makes your standing with them drop 2.4 points your standing with [Random corp name here] should only drop 0.0024 points.
Of course you probably need to spend a lot more thought on the actual numbers but you get the idea.
CEO - UMC |
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Sir Hades
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Posted - 2007.09.15 14:17:00 -
[81] - Quote
Since you have to sign up to be shot at, I would love to see this include all of high sec as well. Make it function like a giant war dec. If I am trying to kill the Gallente, I should not be able to go into their space without having the Gallente aligned players shooting at me.
It should also not matter what your standings are towards a faction in regards to joining them. I think that they will be more than glad to take on all the help they can get. Make it so they "pardon" you in exchange for your loyalty to the faction.
Do not limit the ships that we can use. Although a person might be fighting for the Amarr, if he wants to use a Matar ship, that is his choice. The players are not the navy. We would be taking up the role of a milita so it makes sense to see a mix of ships in the fray.
There should be some system to restrict the docking of ships. If you are fighting for the Matar, you should not be allowed to dock at a Cal Nav station. However, at the same time, there should be a system of neutral stations in each system.
I would like to see the ability to declare war on a faction but not be aligned with a faction. While a Caldari and a Gallente fleet are fighting, if an anarchist group wants to come in and wipe them both out, they should be able to.
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Fehz
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Posted - 2007.09.15 14:26:00 -
[82] - Quote
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Tharrn
Edited by: Tharrn on 14/09/2007 16:18:37
If it is a technical problem to completely deny docking - what about docking fees that get increasingly horrendous the lower the standing?
Edit: P.S. I wouldn't mind blowing up Freedom Extension Stations in the Empire if Concord and the Empire turned a blind eye :P
It's less a technical issue and more a gameplay/design one - what do we do about Amarr stations in Minmatar lowsec space, for example? Do we let Amarr FW players dock there? Do we stop Minmatar FW players docking there? What about the ones in hisec? What about Caldari stations in Minmatar space - do we let Amarr FW players dock there? And so on and so forth... It's something we're still considering including, but it's still not clear whether or not we can come up with a consistent, coherent way of restricting docking rights.
let them only dock at their races's stations in opposing faction systems, but make that station go under attack from time to time , and exiting for a bit might be dangerous cept for in a pod.. and i know people need to dock at other stations to keep the economy going well, so I agree with fees to enter stations. You should make the fee a 1 time a day fee per station based on standing. it should pop up and you should ask for permission to dock before you even warp to it. cause if you just warp to it, they may shoot at you.. maybe i'm not understanding any of this..
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Ellspeth Murdron
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.09.15 14:37:00 -
[83] - Quote
Originally by: CCP Ginger
Originally by: Tharrn
If you want to make it the awesome version then please, please, please make it so that someone who has ****ed off a faction enough can no longer dock at their stations. Nothing turns me off as much as supposed enemies of Amarr being based out of the Emperor Family Station in Amarr...
This has been a hot topic of discussion here. There are alot of problems with denying docking rights to someone and the fact that the empires seem to have allowed each other to set up stations in their sovereign space is somewhat of an issue. But yes, its being discussed.
My concern is that currently, many self-declared enemies of a particular faction live/work in/for the faction they claim to hate. For example, if you're a pirate, or someone with a bio that reads "Death to the Caldari", you probably shouldn't have that 7.5 standing from working for CalNav's agents so much. I guess what I'm saying is this: exclusion from a station might be too harsh, but exclusion from their agents is a must.
Maybe this will be taken care of automatically by getting your standings reduced to negatives during the time you're declared in FW?
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Destiny Calling
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.15 16:14:00 -
[84] - Quote
Will it be possible to ally myself with the pirate factions, if not in the initial release, is it on th drawing board / napkin?
It all looks quite exciting, I can wait.
Destiny
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Descenter
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Posted - 2007.09.15 16:31:00 -
[85] - Quote
I like to se that its porsible to do this on your own,
and maby with a new chance to meet new ingame freinds...
somthing like you go to a Agent's bm and wait,
until 2 more pilots arive, you are then "forced" to team up,
to continue the mission.
To many things in EVE is imporsible for persons who would not like to join a corp, and/or will or can't go to low sec systems.
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CCP Ginger
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Posted - 2007.09.15 17:12:00 -
[86] - Quote
Originally by: Adhar Khorin
Has there been any consideration toward allowing a FW pilot to "call in support" from the faction navy to defend sovereign space?
The amount of support (ie, NPC naval vessels) that you'd be able to call in would depend on your standing, and could also cost standing and/or LP to (literally) call in the favor. It would also introduce one hell of an element of surprise when you're defending your own turf. Invaders see small gang, engage said gang, and then NPC navy shows up to the party.
Actually there have been discussions and designs written up about NPC wingmen, which is basically what you are saying here but with a little more functionality tied in. Im going to dig it up and check it out, thanks!
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CCP Ginger
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Posted - 2007.09.15 17:25:00 -
[87] - Quote
Originally by: Helison
Some random thoughts:
*) About stations: It has to be possible that NPC-stations are taken over by other NPC-factions. In addition to this I&d like to see Interbus implemented first. Interbus could move all your goods (and your corp goods including worthy BPOs) to a friendly station, if the station changes the owner.
When you say, take over the station, how do you mean? Convert a minmatar one to an amarr one for example? There are also agents in stations which people will be wanting to use, docking rights?
Currently we are still considering the whole station/docking rights hotch potch so no, nothing decided on this atm.
Personally I like the idea of Interbus but it needs careful balancing and consideration, however if we were going to close of stations to people then yes, I would say we would need a system like this implemented.
Originally by: Helison
*) While activly fighting for a faction, it should be NOT possible to use the hostile stations. But after end of the fighting it should be possible to dock again within 2-4 weeks.
I appreciate the sentiment but its better if you back these things up with solid reasoning, however I agree with the basic principal that factional warfare should have an effect, but one that can be regained with some hard work. However, like I say, the whole docking issue is up in the air so proposed systems are all being considered.
Originally by: Helison
*) Standings: It should be possible to regain all your lost standings and fight for the opposing faction, but it should be quite difficult to really change the faction. But it should be "quite" easy to regain as much standing to be able to travel again in the regions of the former enemy.
Weeeell, you see, if you have say, -8 towards Amarr this pretty much means you have blown hundreds of their ships away. They dont like you, your pretty much in their top bad arse list of people they dont like. It doesnt make any sesne that they would let you dock at their stations but nethertheless! But, in principle a system that would let you, over a considered period of time, be able to regain dog eaten standings should be considered. However, while the Amarr hate you, the minnies will like you no doubt, so you can still partipate in factional warfare, just not for the side that hates you guts.
Originally by: Helison
*) Factional warfare has to be interesting also for veterans!
Its going to be interesting for everyone, new players and vets included. This is EVE and its open after all.
Originally by: Helison
*) It should NOT be rewarding to bring 300+ players to win an objective. This could also be achieved more easily if you provide many but small objectives instead of single, bigger ones.
Yup, were aiming towards small gangs and making objectives more rewarding to be done in such a way, and obviously, this is one such way of doing so, but it wont be enough by itself, but we have a plan (tm).
Originally by: Helison
*) Logistical ops are a must. "Hey this viator is supplying the enemy with ammunition! Shoot it!"
Id like to hear more about ideas for such things, as well as ideas for having industry and such like in factional warfare, we have some cool ideas but id like to hear from you all about this aspect as well.
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CCP Ginger
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Posted - 2007.09.15 17:38:00 -
[88] - Quote
Originally by: Tsumik
I agree I would really like to see more use of factional ships (which I think I read before somewhere they'll be fixed). And I really think there should be something that sort of pushes people to use ships that coralate to their respective races. Ie. fighting for the Amarr should pushs you or perhaps not penalize you from flying other race ships.
Well, we like the idea of racial fleets but this has its inherent problems in itself. And were not to keen on the idea of penalizing people for flying other races ships. But obviously were thinking of handing out rewards and the LP store is a good way of doing this, but would be tied and balanced towards factional warfare. And it would only make sense in this store to have some kind of faction ships, whether new ones or existing ones remains to be seen. But these will definitely be racial, Amarr arent going to reward you with Minamtar ships :) Fendhal is our man in Amsterdam as far as all this goes but it hasnt been hammered out.
Originally by: Tsumik
I also think besides the small gang battles, the parts that really get me about historacal games is large scale battles happening and being a small part of that battle. And nothing so grand as "if I don't complete this objective the rest of the fleet won't be able to do their parts" but more like "if I can take out this outpost battery the fleet can have a slight edge fighting in this system" I think alot of games make the play so super heroic that they alone determine the way the battle goes. It would be fun if there was big push battles like into a system and you were put into various fronts/objectives by some sort of factional fleet commander. And the faster you complete your small objective the faster someone else in the same battle can complete their part.
I like the way you think and we want to integrate a campaign system into the whole deal and putting tactical objectives into it. We dont know how far we can take this but this is one of the areas we really looking for some input and funk on.
Originally by: Tsumik
It would be also cool to be part of "covert/black ops" type missions where the faction lets you borrow special modules or ships for just that mission and then they take it back afterwards. This would potentially give some more coolness to factional warfare by allowing you to use ships/modules that are only in factional warfare.
Otherwise good job guys look forward to it!
Borrowing ships is a bit of a pain in the ass mechanics wise. Being rewarded ships that you can only fly why you participate in factional warfare is somewhat easier.
Thanks for the feedback.
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Seringol
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Posted - 2007.09.15 17:40:00 -
[89] - Quote
I may have a solution to the issues of ship usage, small gangs, and how to promote fighting without causing all hell to break loose for everyone.
Oh, and this isnt all my own, Im running with ideas brought up by others-
You enter a station owned by your faction and talk to the 'Faction Warfare' agent.
He asks you how commited you are to the cause, giving three or so options-
Trying to lend a hand, Along for the ride, Till the death, etc.
He gives you a list of options, some including simple courier and the like, but in there is
the option for more difficult things, if you chose the more involved choices.
You see an option for 'Attack on X System'
You select it, and he begins to tell you of how a fight is forming up in that system, and that they need competent pilots to fly their ships, as all of their pilots are on leave and caught venereal diseases, and are thus in no condition to fight.
You accept, and based on your loyalty, and the maximum allowances of the mission ( no larger than a frigate ) you are given a choice of ships and loadout.
Someone skilled in fighting will be able to fit more. Someone who has been a miner all their lives will be given a base model ship that they may not be able to pilot under normal circumstances, but hey- not everything works perfect, you know?
So, we now have 6-10 fighters in a random deadspace in this system ( everyone was warped there with ships and ammo, drones, etc. ) to fight it out until one ship remains. Victory is declared for the side, LP/Isk is distributed to all at appropriate rates ( victory, survived, kills, etc.. ) and all are returned to their original station.
To make things faster, im wondering if there should be generic fights, and people can fit themselves and be ready in a queue, and then get inserted into a fight there.
The same format could be applied to doing missions for the faction-
You and your compatriots are being tasked with the destruction of this freighter carrying water, you have until 2200 to accomplish your mission.
At the same time, a message is going out over local in the system ( or even region? ) that an attack will be coming from Caldari in a matter of minutes, talk to a faction agent for orders.
You run to station, get orders ( getting choice to use your own equipment [in limits] , or faction issue ). You get warped to the starting place, and the fighting commences.
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Heres what im looking at- There are going to be people that want to ruin all of this for everyone, and people that dont want to get involved- at all.
A setup like this provides some level of interaction, and some balance as well.
The last thing I want when doing one of these missions is have some uninvoved pirates swoop in and kill us all in the middle of the fight, because they see it as fun or an opportunity to get some easy kills.
Also, you have the aspect of personal equipment- on the lower level missions, frigs or maybe Cruisers if your standing is high enough, and as the amount of people and size of the missions increases, so does what you can bring.
I dont know how to program in temporary ability, to let someone fly faction issue gear.
It would be more work, but possibly special faction model ships with different color schemes, that are used only in this warfare setup? Gives Gallente Frig III, or whatever. Or even no minimum usage requirements, so that anyone can fly them.
Make the fighting models ( given only for these missions ) a little more powerful, and I think you have ship usage and small gang combat in the bag.
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CCP Ginger
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Posted - 2007.09.15 17:42:00 -
[90] - Quote
Originally by: Jezala
So what happens when we have a situation where the Amarr empire is kicking the snot out of the Minmitar Republic and defeating them at every engagement? How is the progress of the war manifested in the universe? What happens when one faction "wins" over the others?
I guess what I'm really asking is: does the outcomes of the factional warfare fights result in meaningful change of the EVE universe or is it just some prearranged fights that impacts your faction standing?
Currently we forssee battles over low sec systems, fighting can occur everywhere but low sec will be the focal point of the too and fro initially.
If one side is beating the snot out of the other, then there beating the snot out of the other, but controlling more systems may mean that they become progressively harder to control, alternatively, maybe they dont and you just get what you get. What do you think?
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