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Miss KillSome
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.09.04 08:06:00 -
[1]
Hi!
Yes, another idea, among the 1000 of those all over these forums:)
What is the problem? AFK cloackers sitting in system. Undetectable, unscannable. When they finish with real life stuff, they come back, shoot ratter and then go afk till DT again. This is WRONG!
Some of u might say: this is MMORPG, play in gang as it is meant to be. Well, DONT! I sometimes like to play alone, or I sometimes MUST play alone.
How to fix it?
There is few solutions like special probes and special bombs which decloak cloacker, cap drainage, non-repeatable module etc.. But all this somehow destroys that elegant solution of Not Beeing Seen (BTW, anybody saw this movie? http://www.break.com/index/monty-python-battlefield-spoof.html ).
What are main reasons for using cloaks? - espionage - scouting - spying - beeing warp-in point - hidding from blob of rater hunters when they take u by suprise - !NOT! AFKing while in hostile system !NOT!
So, what is the solution which will be reasonable for all the mentioned used of cloak?
Surely not cap drainage coz if u warp out of intensive 3x BS spawn u might be low on cap, so that leaves u with no no cloaky for longer (longer I mean with 10-15 minutes to get your aggression timer down!).
Scanning is bad, u dont have control over enemy's luck when probing u. U need to be safe at least for 15minutes, so u can logg-off if u see that odds are against u with this blob waiting to tear u a new one.
Non-repeatable modules are bad! Why u ask? LAG MONSTER! In fleet battle, u cannot react in timely manner to recloak. Nuff said.
So, while thinking about how to solve this problem and stop countless threads about cloaking solution, I've came up with idea, which I mentioned it before in some topic, which went into archives probably.
Using cloaking fuel..
Yeah, thats right. Capitals need stront and isotopes for jumping and doing stuff, so should u for beeing invincible!
I was going in this way: This fuel is consumed every cycle by all Cloaking devices. Each unit of fuel has volume of 0,05m3.
All cloaks have same reactivation delay, thats 30secs.
Assuming cloaking is ussualy needed when ratting in BC or higher (might be smaller too, but for simplicity sake.) so average BC has lets say 400m3 of cargospace, used for ammo, cap boosters and loot. We dont see much PvP fitted ships using T1 or T2 cloak, so we will leave PvP situation out of this. If u cloak for an hour, u do 120cycles of cloaking device. Using 12units of fuel each time, u would need 72m3 of cargospace dedicated to your cloaking needs. Fuel consumption should be the same on T1 and T2 cloak, assuming T2 is more expensive and has higher CPU reqs.
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Miss KillSome
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.09.04 08:07:00 -
[2]
As for cov ops cloak, there should be bonus from cloaking skill which would lower fuel reqs by 2 units for skill level. With lvl5 in cloaking skill u could be cloaked for an hour only with 12m3 of fuel. Helios has 175m3 of cargohold, that would send him on frontlines for 14 hours or 5hours if he only wants to spend 60m3 for fuel and the rest for probes. Calculation for cloaking lvl4 which is probably most common gives u consumption of 4 units per cycle, having 175m3 of fuel, translates of over 7 hours of cloaking in enemy territories without refuling.
So, conclusion: Numbers in this post are just for an expamle. The main problem is to eliminate afk cloaking problem, while keeping cov ops and those who use cloaking in defensive manners still safe and able to use this device for its intended purpouse. Price of fuel or how its made isn't my concern, but if we want to even more spicy the afk cloakers the fuel can be expensive, afterall, it gives u invincibility! Large Ops these days always have some support with them, some of them with empty cargos (laserz) and they can haul your fuel (afterall, its team gameplay, right??) for more then 7 hours of cloaking. teamplay is required and coverts are not so much pwn-spies anymore. U need some effort to be cloaked in enemy territory, which is fair looking from enemy side coz they used time and resources getting their territory into their hands.
Cov ops change to something more skilled, not just pressing f4 and warping across the system and causing troubles. This specialzed ships should require some knowladge and management skills to use!
K, this is it for now, flame away, but try to be constructive, i may have forgot about something.
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Meditril
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Posted - 2007.09.04 10:03:00 -
[3]
Simply NO!
Remove cloakers from local, problem solved.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try
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Posted - 2007.09.04 10:10:00 -
[4]
First constructive sentence: Why didn't you use one of the hundreds of threads about this very same problem. One that already has a lot of arguments for and against, both on solutions and problem definition?
That said, your suggestion is as fine as using cap to control the time you can remain cloaked. If you are low on cap, you just fire up your cap injector. Covert ops ships are specialized ships, and should be able to remain cloaked for an eternity. Thats my opinion
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Nama Saya
Chickens with an Attitude
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Posted - 2007.09.04 10:12:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Nama Saya on 04/09/2007 10:13:35
Originally by: Meditril Simply NO!
Remove cloakers from local, problem solved.
No on both accounts. If anyone is in local, you should be able to see them in there. If you remove them from local then you can have a whole gang cloaked at the gate and you won't be able to see it. BIG no for this id.
Regarding the op, I think the fuel id is a bit overdone. Being able to probe non recon-cover ops ships should be possible but with a low change of finding them.
Even if you use fuel, people can anticipate this by storing this in a sec can for example. They can de-cloak, refuel and cloak again. Even macro's can to this so it's not really effective.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe
Albert Einstein |
Chi Quan
Jade Phoenix Deutschland Event-Horizon
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Posted - 2007.09.04 10:54:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Meditril Remove cloakers from local, problem solved.
not at all, the same problems remain. it favors the cloakers even more, as they are now truly undetectable. "local" and cloaking are two different problems. the idea presented here is nice, however, i would reduce the fuel volume to .02 or .01 even.
local could be solved by giving the ability to leave it. that way the cloaked guy is indeed fully hidden, but has no means to pick an easy prey either, except through scanning. -- Tempus fugit -- |
Miss KillSome
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.09.04 11:36:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes First constructive sentence: Why didn't you use one of the hundreds of threads about this very same problem. One that already has a lot of arguments for and against, both on solutions and problem definition?
That said, your suggestion is as fine as using cap to control the time you can remain cloaked. If you are low on cap, you just fire up your cap injector. Covert ops ships are specialized ships, and should be able to remain cloaked for an eternity. Thats my opinion
coz those threads have their own spammage and smacking.
U fit cap injectors on every ship? even on cov ops? I dont..so cap boosters are not the same as fuel.
As for cov ops cloak, i dont mind that it doesnt use any fuel.
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Miss KillSome
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.09.04 11:47:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Nama Saya Edited by: Nama Saya on 04/09/2007 10:13:35
Regarding the op, I think the fuel id is a bit overdone. Being able to probe non recon-cover ops ships should be possible but with a low change of finding them.
Even if you use fuel, people can anticipate this by storing this in a sec can for example. They can de-cloak, refuel and cloak again. Even macro's can to this so it's not really effective.
yeah, but they wont be afk then, right? The problem are AFKers, I dont want to nerf mission runners or ratters! So having stuff pilled up in can demands that u are active at least once per 2 hours or such.
Probing is no go! Its too much of a luck factor and such. We have enough of this lucky random modules.
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Breathing
Mork Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.09.04 14:11:00 -
[9]
It seems pretty clear that something is going to change about how cloakers, and finding them, work. Theres been the odd noise about it from CCP but none of us really know what theyre thinking.
So assuming that there is likely to BE a change, if I had to choose between a way of probeing them out, or placing a limit on cloak time via fuel or somesuch method, Id go with the time limit.
I'd HATE it if there were probes to find them. A cloaking timelimit, even if it did run in to a few hours, would be seriously more preferable. Maybe not as preferable as just leaving them as they are, but a better option than having them probed out.
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tiki bmp
Cosmic Odyssey YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.09.05 05:35:00 -
[10]
i agree with the agression timer. cloak on = agression timer start or something like that :p whatever :P
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pyrofox
mUfFiN fAcToRy
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Posted - 2007.09.08 21:11:00 -
[11]
Cloaks are fine.....
How do you know they are afk? And just not waiting patiently?
Please make sure you afk cloakers add a busy channel so you don't get logged out thru inactivity.
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Dristra
Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.08 23:26:00 -
[12]
There have been mentioned that one of the new T2 ships will be a destroyer with the ability to fit a cloaker detection device of some sort, mostly because of the black ops battleships i guess.
It's great being Amarr isn't it.
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Myra2007
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Posted - 2007.09.09 00:21:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Myra2007 on 09/09/2007 00:21:25 So basically you want to nerf cloaking devices for all its intended purposes like spying deep in enemy territory (can't refuel there possibly) or ambushing unaware individuals. Mhh, ok.
Then you go on and try to make your nerf so that those bs-farmers *still* can use it effectively to do their work? Thats really insane.
From my point of view if there is any problem with cloaking (being it afk or not) then its with non specialized ships cloaking. You don't like being caught ratting and want a free ride while being safe from enemies recons/cov-ops. Well newsflash other people don't like you ratting in their territory.
Baseline is you don't want to be griefed by cloaks but you want to use them to grief other people by taking their resources and they can't do **** about it. Ohh the irony.
My "fix" to cloaking: Remove all cloaks except the cov-ops 2 from the game. There you have it.
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Chronojam
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.09 03:15:00 -
[14]
There is no problem except for paranoia for those without cloaking devices
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Lemptie
Gallente Glass House
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Posted - 2007.09.09 18:17:00 -
[15]
Maybe what will work is to push every 30 sec the C key,when not you will declocked.
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