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Tefkros
The Dead Pod Society
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Posted - 2007.09.03 11:05:00 -
[1]
Let΄s assume a frigate with a signature radius of 50m. This radius translates into a sphere surrounding the ship, with an area of approximately 31415 square meters.
Take now a prototype cloaking device , and give it an effective cloaking radius of 50m. This will translate into a cloaking sphere with a surface of 31415 square meters.
What this means, is that when used on a frigate,the cloaking field can completely cover the frigates΄ signature, resulting in the frig having 0m effective signature, which will render it completely undetectable.
Now, observe the following holographic image, displaying the effect of a cloaking device on a Battlecruiser with a signature radius of 200m resulting in a sphere of about 500000 square meters.
Cloak
The cloaking field will stretch to cover this area, but is only able to cover 31415 square meters of the surface, resulting in the battlecruiser being cloaked BUT still having a probeable surface of 500000-31415 = 468585 square meters, which translates roughly to a remaining signature radius of about 195+ square meters, rendering the prototype cloak practically ineffective on larger ships.
The improved cloak can be adjusted to have a cloak radius of 100m for example, while the covert ops cloak can infinitely expand its radius, making every ship that can fit it impossible to probe out.
This will have various effects:
-Make large ships (eg isk farming Ravens) impossible to effectively cloak, while allowing less threatening frigate sized ships to remain undetectable
-Drive the Improved cloak prices significantly higher
-Potentially create a market for the Halo implants
Your thoughts are welcome.
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Mikal Drey
Angels and Demons
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Posted - 2007.09.03 11:12:00 -
[2]
hey hey
Personally i cant see what wrong with the existing method |
Juha85
Beasts of Burden YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.09.03 11:12:00 -
[3]
Nice idea. Might be hard to implement though =/ ---------------------------------------
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Juha85
Beasts of Burden YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.09.03 11:13:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Mikal Drey hey hey
Personally i cant see what wrong with the existing method
ALl the ridiculous ISK farmers in their cloaked ravens. All the carrier / mothership pilots in their cloaked solopwnmobiles. ---------------------------------------
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Mikal Drey
Angels and Demons
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Posted - 2007.09.03 11:17:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Mikal Drey on 03/09/2007 11:17:46
Originally by: Juha85
Originally by: Mikal Drey hey hey
Personally i cant see what wrong with the existing method
ALl the ridiculous ISK farmers in their cloaked ravens. All the carrier / mothership pilots in their cloaked solopwnmobiles.
1) those Ravens cant fire cloaked. you just cant find them to kill them.
2) cloaked carrier/motherships - they do no damage to you whilst cloaked so what does it matter. Also they have a lock time gimp after decloaking so just warp.
Its a cloak. Its designed to keep you invisible.
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Ishmael Hansen
No Quarter. Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.09.03 11:52:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Ishmael Hansen on 03/09/2007 11:52:00 As much as I hate isk farmers rendering a module useless because of it is not the good thing to do. After ccp nerfs cloaks they'll just adapt and you'll be all crying nerf *insert new module here*, heck, even now they don't need a cloak, they just log. CCP plz nerf log offs
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Mrrzah
Amarr Ordo Drakonis
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Posted - 2007.09.03 12:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Mikal Drey
Its a cloak. Its designed to keep you invisible.
Invisible is good and well, with this method a Titan could still sit 50k away from you with a Prototype Cloak active and you wouldn't see it, but it'd retain almost all of it's huge signature to make it probeable.
That's of course why something like this won't be implemented. It would leave the now killeable Titans/Motherships, that can't dock in stations, very very vulnerable. The big alliances would probably have Covert-Ops probers all over the place as soon as an enemy titan logs in in hopes of a kill..
Still, the idea is quite good, IMO.
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ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles 3asy Company
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Posted - 2007.09.03 14:14:00 -
[8]
This wont help at all. Cloaking is fine and doesnt need a nerf.
www.eve-players.com |
Soros
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.09.03 14:23:00 -
[9]
Make proto cloaks probeable maybe chance based. improveds unprobeable. that'd drive up the price fine, would make the farmers have to train some more skills and spend some more isk before they can roll out and would make the loot better.
Proto cloaks = probeable
-> win win
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Feng Schui
Minmatar The Ninja Coalition
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Posted - 2007.09.03 14:41:00 -
[10]
I had something similar in mind, where the cloaking device would lower your signature by a certain percentage.
Make the probes signature-based, if they are not already.
When the cloak is fitted on a recon / covert-ops / stealth bomber, the signature reduction is 100% (ie: 0 signature when cloaked)
The Beginning <-- crap quality, need to redo, sorry :( |
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fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.09.03 15:49:00 -
[11]
They certainly need to change something. Everyone and there dog seems to fit cloaks for safe pvp or the filthy farmers ravens insta aligned to ss and cloak malarky.
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Krulla
Minmatar True Centii
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Posted - 2007.09.03 16:32:00 -
[12]
I was going to flame you as soon as I saw the title, but then I read the thread and realized it was a very good idea.
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Cleric JohnPreston
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Posted - 2007.09.03 17:52:00 -
[13]
how about this for a whacky idea, only allow cloaks on ships that are supposed to used them, like a covert ops, recons..
jeesh.
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Tensa
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Posted - 2007.09.03 18:25:00 -
[14]
This...This idea....I like this idea alot. I don't think anything should be nearly as proficient in cloaking technology as Recons, covert ops, and to a lesser degree stealth bombers. Going into a system and seeing a raven able to evade detection as well as a stealth bomber disturbs me. I think nothing should evade detection as well as a covert op/recon/stealth bomber(in that order). With that in mind, nothing should detect as well as a covert op. So a covert op should be the only one to be able to boost it's sensors/scanners strength enough to be able to find them. Story wise, recons aren't able to because they divide their power up between cloaking and ewar, while covert ops dedicate their systems to cloaking and astrometrics. Stealth bombers dedicate most of their resources to on lining those massive launchers. /signed
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Grimpak
Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.03 18:26:00 -
[15]
first good cloaking idea that I've read in.... well.. ever! ---
truth about EVE: Quote: "Guns are fine, boost players"
Quote: "Players are fine, boost guns"
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madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.09.03 18:58:00 -
[16]
Great! Rendering prototype cloaking devices useless cause of farmers or the "AFK 23/7 uber cloaking scouts of DOOM, DEATH and DESTRUCTION."
Yes those farmers sure are a constant threat to your (capital) fleet, undermining everything you ever worked for.
Near the place my alliance lives there is a part of lowsec where iskfarmers run courrier missions fulltime, nearly all of them are in bestowers. We simply tank sentry and gun em down. Lose secstatus, gain nothing, waste time...You dont hear us whining?
Nerf cloaks and what will farmers do? logoffski! Its so damn obvious what will happen if you nerf cloaks, farmers will log off, thats it. Or more farmers will move to courrier missions, mining or farming lvl 4.
I fail to see how cloaking garantees save pvp. Nerfing your lockingspeed with 50%, is not what i call save and the only time a cloak will save you is if you warp off. In that case, you are allready gone! We chased a cloaking mega and it was a matter of putting the drones out and orbit for 5 minutes and tadaa found him!
Not everyone pvp's in a environment with the closest station being 30 jumps away. Cause if you realise this, you understand that targets have plenty of other ways to get away instead of cloaking. _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Civil Blood
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.09.03 19:02:00 -
[17]
how about cloaks cant be fit on ravens? this'll make it so that they can not farm all the time and will not be able to sell their isk. only downside is that they will not get rice 4 their famialy...
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Tensa
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Posted - 2007.09.03 19:17:00 -
[18]
no need for the racism here. ANYWAYS just restricting one ship from using it would be ridiculous and wouldn't fix the problem.
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Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.09.03 19:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Mikal Drey Its a cloak. Its designed to keep you invisible.
And Dual MWDs were designed to make you go fast. Didn't mean they were right.
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Atsuko Ratu
Caldari VSP Corp.
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Posted - 2007.09.03 21:52:00 -
[20]
I have to say, your paint skillz are uber. Great idea as well.
It wouldn't really help finding ravens, theyll just warp+log after the nerf (although it WOULD be annoying for them to have to log every time someone hops into system, so I'd say most would just safespot hop.) As for the guy confused about safe PvP. 50% lock ownage isn't that big of a deal in a bigger setting. It's nice to be able to safe up and cloak when need be though. Logging would just mean you're dead. (20 sec scan, warp to body, molest, kill.)
Also, the cloaker scouts get annoying, those guys get spam reported in our intel channels!
I do think we need a way to find cloakers. A cloak shouldn't be a insta-safe button. Why do we even have recon probes? They can't find the 99% of pilots who safespot nowadays, and the other 1% were the loggers who relogged in the station.
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madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.09.03 22:18:00 -
[21]
Edited by: madaluap on 03/09/2007 22:24:34
Originally by: Atsuko Ratu I have to say, your paint skillz are uber. Great idea as well.
It wouldn't really help finding ravens, theyll just warp+log after the nerf (although it WOULD be annoying for them to have to log every time someone hops into system, so I'd say most would just safespot hop.) As for the guy confused about safe PvP. 50% lock ownage isn't that big of a deal in a bigger setting. It's nice to be able to safe up and cloak when need be though. Logging would just mean you're dead. (20 sec scan, warp to body, molest, kill.)
Also, the cloaker scouts get annoying, those guys get spam reported in our intel channels!
I do think we need a way to find cloakers. A cloak shouldn't be a insta-safe button. Why do we even have recon probes? They can't find the 99% of pilots who safespot nowadays, and the other 1% were the loggers who relogged in the station.
Yeh -50% lockrange, just doesnt matter. Didnt you support to change damps into range reduction only? Great.
So logging would just mean you are dead eh?
Farmer warps to savespot 40 AU away, it cloaks and you cannot scan it. Farmer warps to savespot 40 AU away and logs medwarp. He drops out of warp and than warps 1 mil km from that savespot. Now you can start scanning, now lets see how fast you can get those probes down. Longer range probes will take you more than the logtimer + they let you drop 300+ km off the target IF you succeed.
20 sec probetime? wtf 20 sec? Is that even possible? I thought 23 sec was the max (not sure with rigs though) and than you need a very, very dedicated cov op pilot of a rare breed you wont find *that* much around. I know people who have superfast probing skills. But it requires more than just 4-5 lvl skills. Its 5,5,5, all the way.
Considering that most numbers (especially yours) are made up on the spot, im not gonna argue with the last line. Its complete bull****. This is just one big campaign to stop people from entering alliances their space. So that you *need* a covert op cloak + superexpensive ship, just so you can gank some carebears in a big alliance that cry cause their rats are getting killed by farmers.
Why dont you start npcing in the systems these farmers use, cause apparently you are not using them. Having members in that space on a regular base really wont make it popular for farmers.
I hate it when a style of playing is nerfed over what might be a small ammount of players/farmers abusing it. Well just petition them and give decent arguments, like: "you cannot be online ratting for 23 hours straight." But dont whine on these forums to nerf something thats absolutely not overpowered. _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Tefkros
The Dead Pod Society
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Posted - 2007.09.04 06:54:00 -
[22]
We are not on a witch hunt to grief farmers here, the suggested cloak adjustement is not only because of them. What I¦m trying to show here is a semi-realistic solution to the problem, since a cloaking field of a given and constant strength should not be able to cloak a small and a large object with the same efficiency.
To perplex matters a bit, the cloaking skill could also give something like 5% increase in cloak radius per level, thus compensating for any shield extenders etc you may want to use on your ship.But for now I¦d like to keep my idea simple.
As for some arguments I keep hearing: -Cloak gives you -50% lock time, thus making you less of a threat Just offline the cloak before you attack
- Farmers will just pull logoffskis if you nerf cloaks The most popular roaming ship can fit a recon probe launcher without gimping it at all. Log off in an aggroed Raven and see what happens. Not every system can have safespots 40AU away from all celestial objects.
Discussion always welcome
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Blood Corsair's The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.09.04 07:06:00 -
[23]
The way to fix the cloaking issue is very simple:
All cloaks *except* covops cloaks are probable. Stealth Bombers are changed to allow the use of covops cloaks. And any combat, even with NPCs, gives you a 15 minute aggro timer.
What this does: If you don't have a recon probe launcher, you're not finding a cloaker. If you do, you can. This allows dedicated ships to find non-dedicated cloaked ships, while keeping actual recon/covert ops ships the same.
The 15 minute aggro timer from NPCs is critical here. This will force ISK farmers to seek another solution other than simply logging off. If they do, they will be found, and they will be killed. Simple as that.
This solution *still* allows for the effective use of cloaks as a short term temporary measure of escape and evasion, for things like escaping bubbles camps with a hauler and other emergency situations where temporary cloaking is critical to survival.
If you cloak and you see a probe pop up on scan, you have plenty of time to align and prepair to warp out. Even if someone has maxed probing skills, you still have a 28 second window before he can begin his warp to your location. By that time you can be long gone if you know what you're doing.
[Video]Blood Corsairs - Day One |
Miss KillSome
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.09.04 11:32:00 -
[24]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=588306
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