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Aramarr
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Posted - 2007.08.29 00:49:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Aramarr on 29/08/2007 00:52:18 Edited by: Aramarr on 29/08/2007 00:51:55 Cloaking isn't broken at all... nuff said, check the age. (my new response to everything)
-sorry, here's my main... -Raynaar
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Marux
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Posted - 2007.08.29 00:52:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Sertan Deras Okay, so I am going to use your own logic against you: What is the counter to PvE ships needing to fit entirely different builds to effectively PvE, limiting their PvP capability and making them completely vulnerable to being destroyed? Right now that counter is a cloak and a safe spot, but if you get your way, there is no counter. I am left completely open to being destroyed because I have no way to run and hide and my ship sure isn't going to stand up to a couple of well fit PvP ships, because of the way the game is balanced.
You could say a POS, but not every system ahs a POS and most individual players can't afford one. So now, because you dislike the capability of the average ratter to not get ganked by the gang of HAC's that just jumped in, I should either a) have to rat in systems with POS's, or b) put my wang out in the wind and possibly lose my 200m ISK ratting ship to some jerk off in a HAC because I have no reasonable way to fit a PvP setup on my PvE ship and still be able to actually kill rats.
So basically what you are asking for is the ability to hunt down high value rats in low sec without any risk of losing your ship? Because that is how cloaking currently works; you warp away to any spot you like and hit the button and you are completely undetectable.
Might i ask how exactly the proposed changes to the cloaking system would completely void your current setup?
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar Sicarri Covenant
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:00:00 -
[63]
If you not ready to play with the big boys, stay in highsec where your chances of being ganked are less
Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking ~Liz Kali
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Filipa Gomez
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:05:00 -
[64]
In real life can u scan snipers too? I dont think so, u go to the street and u get a shoot in the ****in head, thats how eve works at the moment and we like it! So lets keep it that way.
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Flinx Evenstar
Minmatar Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:06:00 -
[65]
Has anyone ever been killed by an afk player? Or even a cloaked one, am fairly sure a recon ship needs to "uncloak" in order to target anyone.
Although one time...I did kill a drake while still under gatecloak You got to love CCP servers and their desync problems Can you imagine the guy trying to work out what was shooting him. I couldn't move my ship to decloak, but I could lock and activate all modules. Obviously the server logs showed no problem
Anyway...cloaking is not a problem, no need to fix it. However, macro miners/ratters are a problem, and oh what a shame it is not to be able to farm for 23 hours because a hostile recon is system
I, erm, like kill things and stuff |
Yagyu Retsudo
Yagyu Holdings
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:08:00 -
[66]
Cloaking is fine. Ignore the whiners.
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:09:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Zombie Network Not broken. No fix coming or required.
This....
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:10:00 -
[68]
I'm not a huge fan of having an "instant invulnerability" module in EVE, but I am a MASSIVE fan of a serious bit of covert ops recon on fleets (by far one of the most awesome parts of fleet combat, up there with things exploding).
And since "fixing" the problem will invariably horribly break it's legitimate use, and seeing as the good bits FAR outweigh the bad bits, I seriously don't think changing anything would be a good idea. --------
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Filipa Gomez
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:10:00 -
[69]
My gang just killed a sniper a couple minutes ago, u know why, cause we used our brains instead of coming to cry too ccp when u cant come up with solutions that might right in front of ur face, so instead of trying to think for ur self u try to twist the game to be like u want it to be! I dont like ur way so NO FOR THE CLOAK NERF!! U ARE RUINNING THE GAME WITH THESE STUPID CHANGES NERFS!! Bit by bit, one day no one will want to play it cause it will have lost all of its fun, no hard thinking no tactics, just jumping a gate a blowing up a ship thats what eve is gona become if u keep up with this and people will get bored of it and stop playin...
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Marux
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:11:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Flinx Evenstar Has anyone ever been killed by an afk player? Or even a cloaked one, am fairly sure a recon ship needs to "uncloak" in order to target anyone.
Although one time...I did kill a drake while still under gatecloak You got to love CCP servers and their desync problems Can you imagine the guy trying to work out what was shooting him. I couldn't move my ship to decloak, but I could lock and activate all modules. Obviously the server logs showed no problem
Anyway...cloaking is not a problem, no need to fix it. However, macro miners/ratters are a problem, and oh what a shame it is not to be able to farm for 23 hours because a hostile recon is system
Not asking for a modification to the current cloaks. Just the ability to use scan probes to find people who are cloaking. And please keep in mind that this would not affect those ships which are supposed to be undetectable like recons and cov ops ships. I have no problem with a cloaked recon in system spying on people, but cloaked farmers are a different issue.
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Threeps
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:11:00 -
[71]
This post about cloaks was initiated due to 2-3 Sniping battleships that were cloaked in RoadKill space. RoadKill claims its not fair if they can not gank and blob. I guess they never heard of Guerilla warfare tactic when your out numbered. Tipical Big Corp crying about the little guys!!!
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Filipa Gomez
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:13:00 -
[72]
Well he cant farm much if hes cloaked lol...
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Flinx Evenstar
Minmatar Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:13:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Marux
Originally by: Flinx Evenstar Has anyone ever been killed by an afk player? Or even a cloaked one, am fairly sure a recon ship needs to "uncloak" in order to target anyone.
Although one time...I did kill a drake while still under gatecloak You got to love CCP servers and their desync problems Can you imagine the guy trying to work out what was shooting him. I couldn't move my ship to decloak, but I could lock and activate all modules. Obviously the server logs showed no problem
Anyway...cloaking is not a problem, no need to fix it. However, macro miners/ratters are a problem, and oh what a shame it is not to be able to farm for 23 hours because a hostile recon is system
Not asking for a modification to the current cloaks. Just the ability to use scan probes to find people who are cloaking. And please keep in mind that this would not affect those ships which are supposed to be undetectable like recons and cov ops ships. I have no problem with a cloaked recon in system spying on people, but cloaked farmers are a different issue.
Yeah there are two different takes on this. One idea was to simply increase the cpu usage of a cloaking device. This would compromise any ratting raven set up for example.
I, erm, like kill things and stuff |
Airdorn
Gallente Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:15:00 -
[74]
He's probably one of those lazy npc'ers who only come out when there's no hostiles in local and can't be arsed to go to another system.
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Filipa Gomez
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:17:00 -
[75]
Thats a good idea, increasing cpu will not affect the snipers cause they got alot of cpu left after the fit but probably hurt the tank of the farm ravens. But what u gona do to the farming barges in high sec? Or the guy that has 9 noob accounts in hulks mining ice? Thats a more dangerous farmer than the one in 0.0 in a raven probably...
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Marux
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:18:00 -
[76]
If people would read the OP they would see that this change is not about nerfing the cloaking devices. Cloaks are fine as they are, it's the fact that there is currently no way to find someone who is cloaked that is the problem. The proposed change would not alter anyones ship setups, it would simply mean you would have to be alert when you are cloaking around.
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Christari Zuborov
Ore Mongers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:18:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 29/08/2007 01:20:15
Originally by: Threeps This post about cloaks was initiated due to 2-3 Sniping battleships that were cloaked in RoadKill space. RoadKill claims its not fair if they can not gank and blob. I guess they never heard of Guerilla warfare tactic when your out numbered. Tipical Big Corp crying about the little guys!!!
Post the killboard where I'm involved or STFU liar.
Originally by: Marux If people would read the OP they would see that this change is not about nerfing the cloaking devices. Cloaks are fine as they are, it's the fact that there is currently no way to find someone who is cloaked that is the problem. The proposed change would not alter anyones ship setups, it would simply mean you would have to be alert when you are cloaking around.
QFL
(quote for literacy)
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Filipa Gomez
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:19:00 -
[78]
Or even better what about the farming roadkill chars that mine ice in 0.0 to feed their poses? Well maybe thats why they started this post in the first place cause their resources where compromised!! By the "snipers" with cloaks" lol
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Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:20:00 -
[79]
Aside from the circumstances surrounding the initial post, he's correct. Any module that allows a ship effective invulnerability requires a good, solid nerf. That, or its counter (in this case, probes) needs a good, solid, buff. I'm in favour of the latter. Allow probing, but not scanning of cloaked ships and the problem is solved.
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Dr Moocowz
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:24:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Christari Zuborov Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 28/08/2007 21:40:28 Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 28/08/2007 19:35:10 When are we going to get a fix for cloaking? In it's current implementation it's very un-eve-like.
There are no counters for cloaking ships - A player who is completely inactive, sitting in system indefinitely, can avoid detection from active players hunting or scouting for them.
Where is the counter to this? Where does the balance lay? No other weapon or defensive system in game has no counter, so why do we continue to allow this module to exist in game without a counter?
What purpose does this module serve that can't still be accomplished with an active player?
[Edit: I'm not going to waste your time with some huge diatribe, my question is straight to the point. I'm willing to keep this on page 1 until I hear an answer, one way or another, as to why there's no counter to an uncounterable defensive system. What difference is there in this vs. an unstoppable ship? Both are unbalanced...]
Besides the obvious benefits of a cloak, they are a very effective counter to blobbers. For example...if someone were to blow up our POS, as a smaller corp/alliance, we would like to express our disappointement. However, when dealing with a alliance/corp that blobs, the situation becomes problomatic. Using cloakers would allow us to choose the time and place to say... strike at the nme's soft underbelly of ratters, miners, and other carebears. Not that Roadkill blobs. :/
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Marux
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:26:00 -
[81]
Scan probes are a much better solution to this problem since it does not change anything for those that do use the cloaking devices, combined with the fact that the people that trained the skills to use cloaking devices put a fair amount of time into training the skills, and for someone to track down a cloaker who is not afk would be difficult without equally good probe skills. And if you are afk cloaked, well, don't cry when someone probes you out; afking in EVE = Death in almost all situations.
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Filipa Gomez
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:27:00 -
[82]
Well is like the ones that run to the stations and dock and stay there all day. why cant we board the station and kill them in FPS mode? lol
If u manage to get this accepted, we will still roam around ur system and kill u! What excuse will u get for that? In 0.0 u will never be at peace in a system! We will be there to gank u!!!
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Flinx Evenstar
Minmatar Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:29:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Elmicker Aside from the circumstances surrounding the initial post, he's correct. Any module that allows a ship effective invulnerability requires a good, solid nerf. That, or its counter (in this case, probes) needs a good, solid, buff. I'm in favour of the latter. Allow probing, but not scanning of cloaked ships and the problem is solved.
He can't cloak if he is locked. He is certainly not invulnerable, a half decent ceptor and dictor pilot will even kill coverts jumping into system.
Being able to probe a cloaked ship, makes the cloak completely useless. If I dock up in a system, I am invulnerable. Parking at a safe spot and cloaking, is the same.
The only change needed for cloaks, imo, is that it is made MUCH harder to fit it to a non covert ship, without completely compromising that ships set up.
After fitting a cloak, you become a recon ship, your combat ability is reduced dramatically. (exception being of course the covert recons, but they already get the 100% reduction to cpu )
I, erm, like kill things and stuff |
Filipa Gomez
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:31:00 -
[84]
If u allow the scan probe of cloakers u might as well remove them from the game, cause such devices will become obsolete! Who will want to cloak in some place when u can be scanned and warped to u! No one will use them!!
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Filipa Gomez
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:36:00 -
[85]
Cloaking already has a huge penalty! U have to wait a couple of seconds before u lock someone after u uncloak! So ur target will run if u are working alone! Also u cannot move if u are cloaked, if they accept to be able to scan a cloaked ship then i want u to remove the penalty to speed!
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Leighanne
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:37:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Leighanne on 29/08/2007 01:38:31 To be perfectly honest I'm a huge carebear - I dislike PVP cause wel I suck at it so I don't bother. We've had plenty of 'afk cloakers' come into our space and sit round doing nothing - all this does it disrupt my mining/ratting for all of about 5 mins until one of our alliance members catches them coming through a gate - tells the rest of us what the ship type is.
If its anything except a covops or a recon we can pretty much ignore it because as many people have pointed out ... its AFK ... AFK people .. what in the blue blazers is an AFK cloaked *insert generic t1 ship type here* going to do ?
Suddenly uncloak warp to a belt a shoot my barge - gimmie a break - I'd see him coming before he even got out of warp - be aligned and into warp myself by the time he could get a lock. Even if he manages to get one volley off his alpha will be too low to insta pop me in my hulk and I won't be there for round two.
The only ships that worry me with cloaking are the ones specifically designed to use cloaks to their max advantage - if they come then yeah sure I'll be docking up forming a home defence fleet and going out to help the best I can with the crappy ships that I have. Diddums ... if that happens the person is clealy not AFK and therefore a legitimate threat using game mechanics exactly as they were intended.
If your a pirate and complaining that you can't gank mission runners cause they just SS and afk cloak for an hour till you get bored - cry me a river - your a pirate you deserve to have you gameplay ruined every now and again since you do it to others so often. All part of the game.
Cloaks are in no way broken - they do not require a fix - their negative effects are so great that I don't use them myself and I'm exactly they kind of carebear pansy who should be using them.
So get off the grass ... if you still feel like they are broken I suggest you try a fantasy based MMO - WoW would be good - I hear they have soft padding on swords now as to not cause too much damage to other players also they have a wonderful spell called See invisible.
*Disclaimer* Since I've just admitted to being a pansy carebear who sucks at pvp it would not be prudent for me to post with me main least someone take advantage of this fact.
Edit: changed words filtered out so that no thinks I'm swearing as I'm not.
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:37:00 -
[87]
/me yawns.
Be scared of local rising not afk alts in cloaked ships.
"If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor."
-Albert Einstein
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Filipa Gomez
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:41:00 -
[88]
If they nerf cloaks then they got to remove the local window! Cause its the most stupid thing in the game...
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Jukan Kitar
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:42:00 -
[89]
Yeah Like if u had a local window in space LMAO!!!
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Marux
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Posted - 2007.08.29 01:42:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Filipa Gomez If u allow the scan probe of cloakers u might as well remove them from the game, cause such devices will become obsolete! Who will want to cloak in some place when u can be scanned and warped to u! No one will use them!!
Let me lay out a theoretical situation for you, assuming scan probes were in the game. You are cloaked in a system and a hostile warps in and proceeds to probe you out. Now if you are paying attention then you will have no problem staying one step ahead of whoever it is chasing you since he has to first launch the probe, get the results, then warp to your location. At best just warping to you would take about 10-15 seconds; more than enough time to escape, or if you don't like that option then just fly your ship in a straight line, when the prober warps in he will arrive at your former destination, not your current one. And this is assuming that he actually has decent probe skills and is flying a ship designed for probing (a frigate) So now you have a pesky frigate chasing you, with very little chance to catch you. And for those that don't have probe abilities your cloaking device is still just as effective as it was.
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