EVE Search - Sticky:Time Dilation feedback

Jas Dor wrote:

CCP Veritas wrote:

Salpun wrote:

CCP Veritas. Is the node reinforced? And how close is the tech now to hot swap full nodes and reinforce them on the fly, while spliting off none contested systems?

No, there are 75 systems on that node today.

The tech to move systems around has recently gone through a very nice refactoring, but remains destructive - people in the moved systems are still disconnected. It's definitely on our wishlist to make this non-destructive, but work toward that goal is not currently on anyone's roadmap that I'm aware of.

Would it be possible to "hiccup" the system, everything freezes and everyone session changes into the new node? Place a further one minute cooldown before ships are placed to get everything loaded and flash a message "node overloaded, moving to reinforced, please request a reinforced node for your large fleet fights next time." Also include a loading bar so people know how long they have to go. It doesn't have to be seamless, especially if there's an indication that this is partially a penalty TO for failing to properly request a node in advance.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Reply to Topic \| Show CCP posts - 14 post(s)
Salpun Paramount Commerce Tactical Invader Syndicate 179	Posted - 2012.01.20 21:26:00 - [61] - Quote When they can break off low usage nodes to other server blades without freezing the action in the stressed node they will do so but in its current form that is not possible. The issue of what systems are in what server blades is pretty random but the diffrent types hs/ls/0.0 amd WH are not mixed. The issue mentioned is on the back log though and once some of the gate jumping timing bugs get worked out they can focus on the next issue on the back log. i would prefer more work on splitting Crime watch off to a second CPU be a higher priority before active removal of systems while system is stressed because it will effect more people and help the CPU load in more cases.
Michael Banki Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension 1	Posted - 2012.01.21 00:04:00 - [62] - Quote I was in a big fight, there was TIDI but lag was BAD. Might be that tidi was juming on and off alot or that I had lag on my client. So could tidi change SLOWER if there are 1000 ppl in system. And another thing: Woulndnt it be great if there was a client lag indicator? So that we know when to get a better computer...
Scrapyard Bob EVE University Ivy League 631	Posted - 2012.01.21 06:52:00 - [63] - Quote Michael Banki wrote: I was in a big fight, there was TIDI but lag was BAD. Might be that tidi was juming on and off alot or that I had lag on my client. So could tidi change SLOWER if there are 1000 ppl in system. And another thing: Woulndnt it be great if there was a client lag indicator? So that we know when to get a better computer... Try Ctrl-F to turn on the FPS monitor - which might tell you whether the issue is your graphics card not keeping up..
Deros Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion 0	Posted - 2012.01.21 13:35:00 - [64] - Quote I have been in two fights that have involved time dilation, simple story is this: its horrible, get rid of it. lag > time dilation.
GR0N VVS Corporition Against ALL Authorities 0	Posted - 2012.01.21 14:38:00 - [65] - Quote Dear CCP. Pls remove this f..n TD and return back old lags or do something new. This is impossible to play in this game w. TD. We are like slowpokes. 4 jumps from destination system w. fight 200x200ppl - TD 20%. local 7ppl are you kiddin?
Cyzlaki Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD. 210	Posted - 2012.01.21 15:04:00 - [66] - Quote Had it affect the entire IPS-QB constellation when a 100 man fleet flew through it. No fight was had, and the fleet didn't even stop in a system. They were direct warping gate to gate. The TD remained on for 5-10 minutes after they left. I was the only person in local when it happened. The effect was quite crappy and sucked.
GR0N VVS Corporition Against ALL Authorities 0	Posted - 2012.01.21 15:16:00 - [67] - Quote TD 30-35% When we warped w. 200+fleet from one gate to another. And the same lags like before(before TD) when you tryin to jump to the gate. I think old lags will be better than lags w. TD
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities 85	Posted - 2012.01.21 15:43:00 - [68] - Quote Cearain wrote: It might be good if we had some sort of idea of what each "node" covers. That way people who don't want time dilation can avoid the systems in that node. Maybe they already told us and I missed it. Doesn't work that way. The cluster shares load, so a good scrap kicks up time dialation for a couple systems around (we were seeing it 6 out today). NOW try to move 400 ships through a gate and you end up with 10% dilation factors that essentially stops the system. I literally got up, took a bio break, came back, and made if before my scimitar aligned for the next gate. There could be some tweeking here.
Boratz Cosmic Crew 0	Posted - 2012.01.21 18:15:00 - [69] - Quote K-IYNW 18:00 21/01/2012 Time dilation is awful, all locals logged off. How anyone can call this amazing when it's just lag with a different name, even worse it is self imposed lag from CCP. I can just hear the tech guys at CCP "Oh Hans, lets give lag a name, make a cool video and everyone will love it" We can introduce lag I mean Time Dilation into the next patch, oh this is going to be so awesome"
Boratz Cosmic Crew 0	Posted - 2012.01.21 19:21:00 - [70] - Quote Update: Well after what seems like an eternity (1.5 hours) i've decided to f*k this sht and i'm logging off. Maybe it works for large fleet fights but damn, sucks so hard elsewhere. As far as bad ideas go, this beats Captains Quarters.


CCP Veritas C C P C C P Alliance 314	Posted - 2012.01.21 19:28:00 - [71] - Quote Boratz wrote: K-IYNW 18:00 21/01/2012 There's a gigantic fight going on on this node. I guarantee you that if TiDi wasn't active, you'd be taking >5minutes to turn any modules on. We can debate whether that's better or worse than time slowing down, but let's not pretend like this system would have been cupcakes and roses without TiDi. CCP Veritas - Senior Programmer - EVE Software

Salpun Paramount Commerce Tactical Invader Syndicate 179	Posted - 2012.01.21 19:52:00 - [72] - Quote CCP Veritas wrote: Boratz wrote: K-IYNW 18:00 21/01/2012 There's a gigantic fight going on on this node. I guarantee you that if TiDi wasn't active, you'd be taking >5minutes to turn any modules on. We can debate whether that's better or worse than time slowing down, but let's not pretend like this system would have been cupcakes and roses without TiDi. CCP Veritas. Is the node reinforced? And how close is the tech now to hot swap full nodes and reinforce them on the fly, while spliting off none contested systems?

CCP Veritas C C P C C P Alliance 315	Posted - 2012.01.21 20:00:00 - [73] - Quote Salpun wrote: CCP Veritas. Is the node reinforced? And how close is the tech now to hot swap full nodes and reinforce them on the fly, while spliting off none contested systems? No, there are 75 systems on that node today. The tech to move systems around has recently gone through a very nice refactoring, but remains destructive - people in the moved systems are still disconnected. It's definitely on our wishlist to make this non-destructive, but work toward that goal is not currently on anyone's roadmap that I'm aware of. CCP Veritas - Senior Programmer - EVE Software

mkint 719	Posted - 2012.01.21 20:00:00 - [74] - Quote Boratz wrote: K-IYNW 18:00 21/01/2012 Time dilation is awful, all locals logged off. How anyone can call this amazing when it's just lag with a different name, even worse it is self imposed lag from CCP. I can just hear the tech guys at CCP "Oh Hans, lets give lag a name, make a cool video and everyone will love it" We can introduce lag I mean Time Dilation into the next patch, oh this is going to be so awesome" The problem with tidi is that it was advertised. Stupid people read advertisements and not devblogs. Tidi is so (slightly) technical, noobs all over new eden have no idea wtf to expect from it. ArrTeeEffEmm, dude. You're gagging on a mouthful of stupid.
Salpun Paramount Commerce Tactical Invader Syndicate 179	Posted - 2012.01.21 20:10:00 - [75] - Quote CCP Veritas wrote: Salpun wrote: CCP Veritas. Is the node reinforced? And how close is the tech now to hot swap full nodes and reinforce them on the fly, while spliting off none contested systems? No, there are 75 systems on that node today. The tech to move systems around has recently gone through a very nice refactoring, but remains destructive - people in the moved systems are still disconnected. It's definitely on our wishlist to make this non-destructive, but work toward that goal is not currently on anyone's roadmap that I'm aware of. Thanks for the info. Looks like TiDi is a success. Any luck tracking down the group jump issue to make it more smooth for pilots in TiDi situations now that we have groups of 500 or so moving around together?

CCP Veritas C C P C C P Alliance 315	Posted - 2012.01.21 20:14:00 - [76] - Quote Salpun wrote: Thanks for the info. Looks like TiDi is a success. Any luck tracking down the group jump issue to make it more smooth for pilots in TiDi situations now that we have groups of 500 or so moving around together? It was actually one of the first cases of extreme load that we identified once thin clients came online. It's one complicated bugger to fix though - there have been some improvements to the process as we have epiphanies, but the real fix is going to be a bare-fisted brawl. In other words, we know what we need to do, but it's a large project so we've been hitting easier things with sizable wins instead. CCP Veritas - Senior Programmer - EVE Software

Salpun Paramount Commerce Tactical Invader Syndicate 179	Posted - 2012.01.21 20:20:00 - [77] - Quote Devblog on Monday?

CCP Veritas C C P C C P Alliance 315	Posted - 2012.01.21 21:02:00 - [78] - Quote Salpun wrote: Devblog on Monday? Probably not tbh. Bit of a deployment on Tuesday, I'm rather swamped. CCP Veritas - Senior Programmer - EVE Software

Salpun Paramount Commerce Tactical Invader Syndicate 179	Posted - 2012.01.21 21:07:00 - [79] - Quote CCP Veritas wrote: Salpun wrote: Devblog on Monday? Probably not tbh. Bit of a deployment on Tuesday, I'm rather swamped. Yay 1.1 The word of this fight needs to go main stream on the gaming news and the easiest way is a devblog or press release. Looking forward to all the pretty graphs.

CCP Veritas C C P C C P Alliance 315	Posted - 2012.01.21 21:20:00 - [80] - Quote Salpun wrote: CCP Veritas wrote: Salpun wrote: Devblog on Monday? Probably not tbh. Bit of a deployment on Tuesday, I'm rather swamped. Yay 1.1 The word of this fight needs to go main stream on the gaming news and the easiest way is a devblog or press release. Looking forward to all the pretty graphs. It's true. Hopefully the deployment goes smoothly and I can put something together by the end of the week. We'll see how it goes... CCP Veritas - Senior Programmer - EVE Software


Jas Dor Republic University Minmatar Republic 11	Posted - 2012.01.21 21:20:00 - [81] - Quote CCP Veritas wrote: Salpun wrote: CCP Veritas. Is the node reinforced? And how close is the tech now to hot swap full nodes and reinforce them on the fly, while spliting off none contested systems? No, there are 75 systems on that node today. The tech to move systems around has recently gone through a very nice refactoring, but remains destructive - people in the moved systems are still disconnected. It's definitely on our wishlist to make this non-destructive, but work toward that goal is not currently on anyone's roadmap that I'm aware of. Would it be possible to "hiccup" the system, everything freezes and everyone session changes into the new node? Place a further one minute cooldown before ships are placed to get everything loaded and flash a message "node overloaded, moving to reinforced, please request a reinforced node for your large fleet fights next time." Also include a loading bar so people know how long they have to go. It doesn't have to be seamless, especially if there's an indication that this is partially a penalty TO for failing to properly request a node in advance.

CCP Veritas C C P C C P Alliance 315	Posted - 2012.01.21 21:30:00 - [82] - Quote Jas Dor wrote: [quote=CCP Veritas]Would it be possible to "hiccup" the system, everything freezes and everyone session changes into the new node? Place a further one minute cooldown before ships are placed to get everything loaded and flash a message "node overloaded, moving to reinforced, please request a reinforced node for your large fleet fights next time." Also include a loading bar so people know how long they have to go. It doesn't have to be seamless, especially if there's an indication that this is partially a penalty TO for failing to properly request a node in advance. It's possible of course, but our systems are not architected in such a way that makes this easy. Off the top of my head I'd guesstimate about a year's worth of work for someone who's already up to speed with the cluster solution and the gameplay implementation, plus a heavy dollop of QA time. CCP Veritas - Senior Programmer - EVE Software

Tallian Saotome Fractured Core Fatal Ascension 338	Posted - 2012.01.21 22:33:00 - [83] - Quote After another fight which was mostly under TD, I have to say that logi loves it... its painful, horrible, and terrible, but in a way that can be worked with, instead of being totally random like before. Fix the jump gates and I think it will be just about the perfect solution(other than eliminating lag totally, which so far seem to require turning off the servers) o/`-a Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-a o/`
Benedic GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2012.01.22 00:50:00 - [84] - Quote I just wanted to publically thank CCP for tidi! This is my first fleet fight since it's been introduced and it is the first fleet fight in literally -years- that I was able to participate in properly without lagging to the point that everything was completely broken. I actually quit playing Eve back during the initial war against BoB because i lost ship after ship to the same situation where I'd warp in and be dead before I ever loaded grid. It would take 45-50 minutes to load. Today I was able to fully participate (albeit painfully slowly so I missed 99% of kills while watching the 20 second locks) but I was able to load grids and warp in and out relatively well. We were under huge time dilation but at least when I engaged modules they activated. I am very much happier as a result of this - I stopped doing large fleet stuff altogether because of how bad it had been over the last years but I will log in much more often if this is the kind of experience I'm going to have in future. I know you've taken a lot of flak for this feature in this thread but I think it's -amazing-.
Jarnis McPieksu Aliastra Gallente Federation 270	Posted - 2012.01.22 06:54:00 - [85] - Quote As I understand it, tons of people fought (~2000 pilots over several hours), two titans, some dreads and a metric crapton of subcapitals died while the node didn't die. This alone makes TiDi a huge win. The fact that it happened on an unreinforced node that also ran 70something other systems on it (who naturally got TiDi:d hard as well) is nothing short of amazing. If some carebear five systems over was "lagged" by 10% TiDi, it is pointless to whine - without it he would've been staring at the loading screen trying to log back on as the node would have died horribly. I unsubbed from EVE after Dominion broke fleet fights to a point of unplayability and resubbed when news of this deploying to live servers was announced. Glad to see it working. http://dog-net.org/brdoc/?brid=3453 = overview of the battle. I hope I'm not blapped by the mods for posting this link, it is merely to illustrate the massive size of the battle. Alliances involved: 33 Corporations involved: 252 Players involved: 2073
Gilbaron Free-Space-Ranger Ev0ke 126	Posted - 2012.01.22 09:46:00 - [86] - Quote It would be pretty cool if ccp could state which level of tidi were there if IT had happened on a reinforced node I heard mostly positive comments from those involved
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities 85	Posted - 2012.01.22 10:02:00 - [87] - Quote Jas Dor wrote: CCP Veritas wrote: Salpun wrote: CCP Veritas. Is the node reinforced? And how close is the tech now to hot swap full nodes and reinforce them on the fly, while spliting off none contested systems? No, there are 75 systems on that node today. The tech to move systems around has recently gone through a very nice refactoring, but remains destructive - people in the moved systems are still disconnected. It's definitely on our wishlist to make this non-destructive, but work toward that goal is not currently on anyone's roadmap that I'm aware of. Would it be possible to "hiccup" the system, everything freezes and everyone session changes into the new node? Place a further one minute cooldown before ships are placed to get everything loaded and flash a message "node overloaded, moving to reinforced, please request a reinforced node for your large fleet fights next time." Also include a loading bar so people know how long they have to go. It doesn't have to be seamless, especially if there's an indication that this is partially a penalty TO for failing to properly request a node in advance. We use blade clusters where I work. Dynamic load sharing is EXTREMELY hard to to do, particularly in performance oriented high bandwidth applications, it literally took us 5 years to to mange it on an elemental basis (as in elements of a larger system), we haven't gotten it to a true load determinate allocation yet.
John Maynard Keynes Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.01.22 11:39:00 - [88] - Quote Overall a great feature! However, TD becomes a huge problem when combined with lag. :D
Tallian Saotome Fractured Core Fatal Ascension 339	Posted - 2012.01.22 11:50:00 - [89] - Quote John Maynard Keynes wrote: Overall a great feature! However, TD becomes a huge problem when combined with lag. :D uh... I think you fail to understand what TD is. Its FORMALIZED lag, so that the system has a way to handle it gracefully. o/`-a Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-a o/`
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities 85	Posted - 2012.01.22 12:33:00 - [90] - Quote Tallian Saotome wrote: John Maynard Keynes wrote: Overall a great feature! However, TD becomes a huge problem when combined with lag. :D uh... I think you fail to understand what TD is. Its FORMALIZED lag, so that the system has a way to handle it gracefully. Not to mention the player. Everything happens in the right order, so you don't go from cruising along fighting to back in station without ever being yellowboxed.


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