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Wacktopia
Noir.
142
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Posted - 2012.01.12 17:14:00 -
[61] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:I am a bit shocked that I didn't find any threads on this. Null has it's 25% range modifier increased to 40% on SISSI. Discuss.
Did you mean 40% to optimal and falloff (current null is 25% to both) or just one of the modifiers changed to 40%? . |
Antodias
Ship spinners inc
7
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Posted - 2012.01.12 17:18:00 -
[62] - Quote
Will this allow blasterboats to project a decent amount of damage within (overheated) scram range? Could make a big difference, and increase the GTFO ability of the ships if they can pulse the MWD |
Wacktopia
Noir.
142
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Posted - 2012.01.12 17:23:00 -
[63] - Quote
Antodias wrote:Will this allow blasterboats to project a decent amount of damage within (overheated) scram range? Could make a big difference, and increase the GTFO ability of the ships if they can pulse the MWD
I think the main point of contention at the moment is that it will take the range of something like a nano-Diemos....
From: 7.31KM + 19.2km To: 8.91 + 21.5km
Essentially you can read the change roughly as a "Free extra Tracking Enhancer" from a range perspective on a ship like that. . |
Stabs McShiv
MINUS4
0
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Posted - 2012.01.12 17:28:00 -
[64] - Quote
So nothing to get worked up over dosnt hold a candle to scorch for bs sized ships all it means is Gal might be able to get in one more volley before the targets outside fall off at least for med/large and its still in web range for small so no difference at all. |
Wacktopia
Noir.
142
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Posted - 2012.01.12 17:32:00 -
[65] - Quote
A couple of rough comparison charts...
Nano Deimos
Cookie Cutter Neutron Mega . |
Jerick Ludhowe
The Green Cross Controlled Chaos
39
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Posted - 2012.01.12 17:44:00 -
[66] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Assault frigs are going to obsolete interceptors and faction frigs. Potentially cruisers and maybe some HACs too.
-Liang
But BCs don't obsolete cruisers right?
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
574
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Posted - 2012.01.12 18:07:00 -
[67] - Quote
I feel pretty comfortable taking my AFs up against BCs on TQ... its just going to get worse once the boost hits.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
574
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Posted - 2012.01.12 18:09:00 -
[68] - Quote
Wacktopia wrote:Antodias wrote:Will this allow blasterboats to project a decent amount of damage within (overheated) scram range? Could make a big difference, and increase the GTFO ability of the ships if they can pulse the MWD I think the main point of contention at the moment is that it will take the range of something like a nano-Diemos.... From: 7.31KM + 19.2km To: 8.91 + 21.5km Essentially you can read the change roughly as a "Free extra Tracking Enhancer" from a range perspective on a ship like that.
More like an optimal scripted TC, but sure. :P
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Wacktopia
Noir.
142
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Posted - 2012.01.12 18:10:00 -
[69] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Wacktopia wrote:Antodias wrote:Will this allow blasterboats to project a decent amount of damage within (overheated) scram range? Could make a big difference, and increase the GTFO ability of the ships if they can pulse the MWD I think the main point of contention at the moment is that it will take the range of something like a nano-Diemos.... From: 7.31KM + 19.2km To: 8.91 + 21.5km Essentially you can read the change roughly as a "Free extra Tracking Enhancer" from a range perspective on a ship like that. More like an optimal scripted TC, but sure. :P -Liang
Check out my graphs, Liang. I had to mess around with the data a bit but I think I got it about right? . |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
574
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Posted - 2012.01.12 18:27:00 -
[70] - Quote
Wacktopia wrote:Check out my graphs, Liang. I had to mess around with the data a bit but I think I got it about right?
Yeah I saw that. It looks roughly like the ones I made about 30 seconds after I heard about the boost, and I came to the same conclusion about it already. My thoughts on it are: - The hybrid boost was really good already. The null change may not be strictly necessary in and of itself. - Many people are still QQing about hybrids. The null change isn't that dramatic on its own but may very well be enough to make people re-evaluate the pre-existing boost and create a FOTM out of it.
Like I said - one of the crowning achievements of the hybrid boost was that it was sufficiently powerful to make the ships viable and sufficiently weak not to create an instant FOTM (a sure sign that you ****** up bad at design).
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate
17
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Posted - 2012.01.12 19:41:00 -
[71] - Quote
Yeah, its like a free range scripted TE for blasterships. Swap another TE in to replace a mag stab and this will give ships a few more options.
I still think rails needs a slight tracking or dps tweak, but the hybrid changes are shaping up nicely.
Now if they would fix armor tanking so most of the rigs (maybe excluding trimarks) dont nerf your speed into oblivion, I willl be a happy camper. |
Wacktopia
Noir.
142
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Posted - 2012.01.12 20:03:00 -
[72] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Wacktopia wrote:Check out my graphs, Liang. I had to mess around with the data a bit but I think I got it about right? Yeah I saw that. It looks roughly like the ones I made about 30 seconds after I heard about the boost, and I came to the same conclusion about it already. My thoughts on it are: - The hybrid boost was really good already. The null change may not be strictly necessary in and of itself. - Many people are still QQing about hybrids. The null change isn't that dramatic on its own but may very well be enough to make people re-evaluate the pre-existing boost and create a FOTM out of it. Like I said - one of the crowning achievements of the hybrid boost was that it was sufficiently powerful to make the ships viable and sufficiently weak not to create an instant FOTM (a sure sign that you ****** up bad at design). -Liang
Yeah, agree with that. Personally I think the change to the Mega chart is meh whilst the Deimos is getting me excited enough to fly that ship like a Vaga. . |
Biced
Retaliation Nation
2
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Posted - 2012.01.13 05:09:00 -
[73] - Quote
nano eagle/moa/ferox anyone? |
Aamrr
216
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Posted - 2012.01.13 12:30:00 -
[74] - Quote
Hrett wrote:Yeah, its like a free range scripted TE for blasterships. Swap another TE in to replace a mag stab and this will give ships a few more options.
I still think rails needs a slight tracking or dps tweak, but the hybrid changes are shaping up nicely.
Now if they would fix armor tanking so most of the rigs (maybe excluding trimarks) dont nerf your speed into oblivion, I willl be a happy camper.
I've suggested capacitor consumption on propulsion modules as an alternative in the past. It didn't receive much attention, but among those who did see it, it was generally well-received. |
Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED
36
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Posted - 2012.01.13 20:28:00 -
[75] - Quote
Woot - actually the DPS graphs did scare me a bit... I mean, the null utilization was always TERRI-BAD...I never understood why, as I was using it in my ranis..yeah, never flown (and lost) more than 3-4 large blaster-fitted BSs, but that wasn't an issue of blasters being bad or not It was funny tho that "lasers were of due to scorch", but null was thought to be useless.
The Mega vs. abby graph is scary, and so would the Hyp vs. Abby one...still with a tracking and cap usage advantage for both blaster boats...the "med-range" niche for laser boats is greatly diminished. Again, as I've wrote in my 1st post and ppl stated above: all in all a slight buff in range (thought it was only in optimal at first, thus I got only Caldari blaster boats in mind) is not bad, but it adds up to an already impressive buff blasters got in general - speed for hulls / tracking / close range T2 ammo / cap use / fitting reqs / ammo swapping+reload speed and ofc dmg output.
It adds up to "OP" at some point, as with the null changes there goes the "point blank" arguement. Blasters are becoming better than ACs in most stuff other than dmg selectivity, and outclass lasers clearly in all "in-point-range" situations
Well, hell with it...let Gallente be FOTM again - something always is better than the rest, and ppl will always whine about stuff, even if its irrelevant ti actual game issues.
Also about pvp - get real, it's like racing: you race to win, or you don't race. If you race to be "2nd", you are called a loser (anywhere but the US, there they call you second winner)...ofc you can re-evaluate the situation to mitigate some bitterness (I was outnumbered, they had falcons, etc) , but 2nd is never good enough.
So, when someone engages you or you engage sth, inside the aggressors head the probability of killing or getting out if things are bad, is higher than the "alternative". It's called picking your fights. It works in RL too, even not in war-zones. If you don't do it, you deserve what you are going to get. "War does not determine who is right - only who is left." -- Bertrand Russell |
Lili Lu
105
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Posted - 2012.01.13 21:21:00 -
[76] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Naomi Knight wrote:even if we who actually pvp know their claims are not true You don't actually PvP. Mfume, I'm sure you know by now that Naomi is a whiney caldari rp forum alt troll. I finally got around to click down arrow - hide posts. It's really the only thing to do. |
m0cking bird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
90
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Posted - 2012.01.13 21:49:00 -
[77] - Quote
Diomidis wrote:Woot - actually the DPS graphs did scare me a bit... I mean, the null utilization was always TERRI-BAD...I never understood why, as I was using it in my ranis..yeah, never flown (and lost) more than 3-4 large blaster-fitted BSs, but that wasn't an issue of blasters being bad or not It was funny tho that "lasers were OP due to scorch", but null was thought to be useless. Carry only AM was the dogma, and whine in the forums cause the other boat could overheat a web and/or kite you... The Mega vs. abby graph is scary, and so would the Hyp vs. Abby one...still with a tracking and cap usage advantage for both blaster boats...the "med-range" niche for laser boats is greatly diminished. I don't care about the Vaga vs. Deimos case - I think the Vaga has certain advantages over it, and it's not a ganking ship - If it's hard to pick a Vaga over a nano-cane, there are little chances to pick a Deimos over it (the cane) too. Cane is not slower, has more buffer, more cap and more neuts. Oh, and it's cheaper by far. Again, as I've wrote in my 1st post and ppl stated above: all in all a slight buff in range (thought it was only in optimal at first, thus I got only Caldari blaster boats in mind) is not bad, but it adds up to an already impressive buff blasters got in general - speed for hulls / tracking / close range T2 ammo / cap use / fitting reqs / ammo swapping+reload speed and ofc dmg output. It adds up to "OP" at some point, as with the null changes there goes the "point blank" argument. Blasters are becoming better than ACs in most stuff other than dmg selectivity, and outclass lasers clearly in all "in-point-range" situations. Things get broken exactly when there is no weakness, or when there are walk-arounds to all weaknesses. The "Achilles-heel" for blasters was always range - now in anything other than close-range-BS blob fights, that's pretty much gone. Well, hell with it...let Gallente be FOTM again - something always is better than the rest, and ppl will always whine about stuff, even if its irrelevant ti actual game issues.
Also about pvp - get real, it's like racing: you race to win, or you don't race. If you race to be "2nd", you are called a loser (anywhere but the US, there they call you second winner)...ofc you can re-evaluate the situation to mitigate some bitterness (I was outnumbered, they had falcons, etc) , but 2nd is never good enough. So, when someone engages you or you engage sth, inside the aggressors head the probability of killing or getting out if things are bad, is higher than the "alternative". It's called picking your fights. It works in RL too, even not in war-zones. If you don't do it, you deserve what you are going to get.
Truth! Gal wont b op though
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Korg Tronix
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
39
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Posted - 2012.01.13 22:11:00 -
[78] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Naomi Knight wrote:even if we who actually pvp know their claims are not true You don't actually PvP.
I think he is mad because we didnt accept him in when he applied for corp Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One! [zaps one of his minions accidentally, minion screams] Evil: Sorry. -á |
Ahrieman
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
11
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Posted - 2012.01.13 22:22:00 -
[79] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Assault frigs are going to obsolete interceptors and faction frigs. Potentially cruisers and maybe some HACs too.
-Liang
Exactly. My poor claw |
Ahrieman
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
11
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Posted - 2012.01.13 22:36:00 -
[80] - Quote
Naomi Knight wrote:Born Again Gallente wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Just how much ISK do you think I'm talking about spending here? That's a purely named/T2 fit I'm talking about.
-Liang What named/t2 disruptor is giving your AF a 38km point? I mean, do you honestly want to start assuming forward tackle runs with ganklinks? add that they are doing this called "pvp" they sit in amamake all day along,everyday they have a gang up i quess always with a gang booster somewhere safe in the system then use this tactic: some frigs out for looking for preys if they find one and sure they are totally safe to tackle they broff in ts/corp chat so the others can undock and warp to the target , and blob kill it if enemy somehow manages to suprise them with some friends and or a falcon:P they come to qq on forum how op ecm is, as it took away safe "pvp" from them :( oh forgot they are flying long range frigs mostly so if enemy is stronger than expected they **** their pants and warp to safe /dock up low sec pvp in its highest form:P and somehow they think they can know what is op and what is up from balance perspective, dont mind to add in theoretical situations and sisi/test changes which havent came out yet , they know everything so pls dont be a moron and dont oppose their believes , go support their posts it makes them feel good , they need it as they are not so favoured in other things in life , let them have this one ,even if we who actually pvp know their claims are not true
Confirming that everyone in eve but us only fights fair fights and never uses all available assets to gain the advantage in a fight
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Goose99
666
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Posted - 2012.01.13 22:49:00 -
[81] - Quote
Wacktopia wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Wacktopia wrote: Check out my graphs, Liang. I had to mess around with the data a bit but I think I got it about right?
Yeah I saw that. It looks roughly like the ones I made about 30 seconds after I heard about the boost, and I came to the same conclusion about it already. My thoughts on it are: - The hybrid boost was really good already. The null change may not be strictly necessary in and of itself. - Many people are still QQing about hybrids. The null change isn't that dramatic on its own but may very well be enough to make people re-evaluate the pre-existing boost and create a FOTM out of it. Like I said - one of the crowning achievements of the hybrid boost was that it was sufficiently powerful to make the ships viable and sufficiently weak not to create an instant FOTM (a sure sign that you ****** up bad at design). -Liang Yeah, agree with that. Personally I think the change to the Mega chart is meh whilst the Deimos is getting me excited enough to fly that ship like a Vaga.
You can't fly a Diemost like Vaga when Vaga's 50% faster. What makes Winmatar win is a combination of speed and range, not just range. It can kill most things, whatever it can't kill, it can gtfo. At worst, you don't get a kill. But with Diemost, you just die.
And btw, null range, now with +15% of very little base range, is still very little, not even close to that of barrage or scorch. |
Lili Lu
105
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Posted - 2012.01.13 22:57:00 -
[82] - Quote
Ahrieman wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Assault frigs are going to obsolete interceptors and faction frigs. Potentially cruisers and maybe some HACs too.
-Liang Exactly. My poor claw Yeah, was my first tech II ship. It's such a good looking ship, and I was so proud. Little did I know way back then
Edit- and I swear Goose must be the alt Naomi's double forum alt faceless troll. another click down arrow and hide posts ~~ |
Hungry Eyes
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
334
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Posted - 2012.01.13 23:03:00 -
[83] - Quote
flying a Deimos like a Vaga is silly. you have a little less than 30k EHP, and will get 3-4 shot by an arty Tornado. flying a Vaga is silly in general. people just fly Cynabals now for double the EHP, and just general OP-ness.
the null buff is great, but the Deimos still sucks as an AHAC (compared to a Zealot), and all HACs in general are pretty broken right now, especially after the tier 3 release. the null buff makes me excited to fly the Talos and Mega though.
you certainly wont be seeing any FOTM centering around blasters, lolz. if anything, all the Cane and Drake pilots will be more encouraged by the free KM's. |
Hungry Eyes
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
334
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Posted - 2012.01.13 23:06:00 -
[84] - Quote
this basically shows that the Vaga and Deimos are useless ships (as they are now), and that the Mega still sucks in fleets.
maybe if you crunch more numbers harder, you'll $hit out a proper hybrid buff , which you can then mail to CCP. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
576
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Posted - 2012.01.14 00:37:00 -
[85] - Quote
Hungry Eyes wrote:flying a Deimos like a Vaga is silly. you have a little less than 30k EHP, and will get 3-4 shot by an arty Tornado. flying a Vaga is silly in general. people just fly Cynabals now for double the EHP, and just general OP-ness.
the null buff is great, but the Deimos still sucks as an AHAC (compared to a Zealot), and all HACs in general are pretty broken right now, especially after the tier 3 release. the null buff makes me excited to fly the Talos and Mega though.
you certainly wont be seeing any FOTM centering around blasters, lolz. if anything, all the Cane and Drake pilots will be more encouraged by the free KM's.
lol, you are more than welcome to bring more canes and drakes to amamake. I need more fraps footage of us being massively outnumbered and still kicking the **** out of people.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Vachir Khan
TriSeq Defence Group
167
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Posted - 2012.01.14 01:44:00 -
[86] - Quote
Hungry Eyes wrote:this basically shows that the Vaga and Deimos are useless ships (as they are now), and that the Mega still sucks in fleets.
Once CCP finally becomes fearless and nerfs angel ships we'll see what happens. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
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Murtific
Snuff Box
27
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Posted - 2012.01.14 04:07:00 -
[87] - Quote
Hungry Eyes wrote:[quote=Born Again Gallente]
definitely time for Cal BS 4.
you're doing it wrong........ |
Renge Ukyo
Point of No Return Waterboard
8
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Posted - 2012.01.14 18:59:00 -
[88] - Quote
Forgive my ignorance, but what in the sam hell does FOTM mean?
And now the noob will weigh in on the Null Buff.
All I'm going to say is this. Null does -average- damage. The only thing this change will do is allow me to hit you a whole 1 second earlier than I would have been able to before.
I'm a dedicated gallente pilot (that means cannon fodder for those of you who are unaware) and I can tell you from experience in null, low, and high sec that the gallente boat is still going to be the weakest combat asset you have in your fleet at all times because we are slow, capacitor vulnerable, drone reliant, range deficient and applied-dps challenged.
So if you think you're in danger of me OP'ing you, fit your scorch, your artilitery, your nuets and your nano's (like you always do...) and you'll be just like everyone else who's watched a gallente boat explode.
Quit your damned bitchin.
If you want to see the Gallente OP, then do the following.
1 - Finish unfucking my rail guns 2 - Make me faster 3 - Give me a tank that isn't the size of a baby pea or resists to the same size tank that'd enable my pathetic active tank (tripple rep myrm obvious exception) viable in blob warfare (cause you know thats how you nano fags fly). 4 - Unfuck the physics behind drones and drone speed, them ***** should be hella faster considering their size and mass. They have MWD's on em for **** sakes. 5 - Put an "I WIN" button somewhere on my HUD.
Since none of those things are going to happen, guess what, The Gallente are NEVER going to be OP. The Minmatar are universally OP, and the Angel Ships are also universially OP, Serpentes boats comming in second on the OP for pirate ships.
And the whole bit about the AF taking over the Inty role? Get real. An AF will -never ever ever- INTERCEPT better than an Interceptor does.
Last but not least, Blasters, magical as they are with void, are seriously out classed by AC's. If you can change damage types guess what, you can find a hole and fill it with DPS. And if you're going Gal hunting (and I know you fags do it) you know perfectly well that faction Fusion will put me in a pod every god damned time even if I am dumb and dont omni tank my pvp boat. So get the **** over it. The Blasters are fine and the null buff isn't going to OP them. |
Hungry Eyes
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
336
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Posted - 2012.01.14 19:43:00 -
[89] - Quote
agreed. unfuck my rails. thanks. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
267
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Posted - 2012.01.14 19:46:00 -
[90] - Quote
Renge Ukyo wrote:Forgive my ignorance, but what in the sam hell does FOTM mean?
flavor of the month. minute or moment as well.
basically the **** everyone uses, usually with a decent reason. |
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