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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Luna Rossa Corporation SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.22 23:57:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Sunabi Linky
That's badass. I'd fly that.
There are certain things that really annoy me about some of the ships which I am very enthusiastic about CCP fixing - their ridiculous, impractical, illogical and inexplicable fear of symmetry, for example. The Rokh should be symmetrical. It really should, but they have to put that stupid little thing on one side that serves no purpose except breaking the symmetry. Also, the Atron totally, totally needs to be symmetrical. It would look immensely badass if it had wings on both sides rather than on just one.
They also need to stop covering Caldari ships in those ridiculous spires. They are completely impractical and would almost definetely just snap off at the smallest provocation. Take them off, CCP.
They also need to make the Exqueror out of the same stuff all their other ships are made of, rather than that odd mossy organic stuff. They also need to make it less fugly.
----- I think it's little enough to ask that every Amarrian roll over and die so I can live in my vision of a perfect world. |
DubanFP
Caldari Four Rings D-L
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Posted - 2007.07.22 23:59:00 -
[32]
Edited by: DubanFP on 23/07/2007 00:03:04 Personally though my favorate ship in looks is the Raven. It looks like the very pinnical of technology without emotion. Although it doesn't have the grace of the amarr ships or the symmetry of the gallente, the raven just exudes grandure at it's greatest.
And then the Phoenix, boy that thing looks like it doesn't know the meaning of mercy or looks. It looks like hi! OMG I'M DEAD!!!
It has it's flunks "Moa, osprey, griffon", but like i said the ships that suceed exude grandure if you're ready to appreciate it "Kestrel, Caracal, Raven, Phoenix, Merlin". ______________________
DubanFP> I stopped capitalizing the g in goonswarm a little while back. I find they no longer deserved the little bit of extra effort required to press the shift key. |
Stitcher
Caldari legion of qui Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.23 00:00:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Stitcher on 23/07/2007 00:03:05 Edited by: Stitcher on 23/07/2007 00:01:15
Originally by: Dubious Drewski
Originally by: Stitcher I think the Raven especially must have had at least SOME measure of thought put into it prior to creation. ...
I don't think it was utterly unplanned - it's simply not possible to just sit down and create such a unique design without first putting in some planning time.
You're taking what I said waay too literally.
People might have grown accustomed to the way it looks, they might even like it. That's ok. It's also ok that it is blocky and asymetrical. My point is that it should be obvious that the Raven *PIC* looks much less professional than the Myrmidon for example: *PIC*
Now, I'm not saying that they should make the Raven look like the Myrmidon!. I say keep the Raven's bulky, deadly styling. Just redesign the thing so that these "Caldari ships are ugly" threads stop popping up all the time.
Okay, I'll actually concede the point. But I think that the development is down largely to CCP's expansion and increasing professionalism as a games developer rather than a lack of talent in the first place. As they've advanced and grown so too has the vision of EVE been refined and improved.
With four years of evolution between the creation of the Raven and the creation of the Myrmidon, I think it only fair to say that the Raven is never going to look quite as nice as the myrmi and its contemporaries do without undergoing an extensive overhaul of its own. (Also: please note that the primary reason that the myrmidon is so much better-looking than the Raven is that it has a higher-resolution texture. In terms of the actual modelling, it's not that much more intricate...)
Lucky us, that's just what we're getting.
btw: you might want to convert those IMG tags to just straight links. ***
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syphurous
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.07.23 00:03:00 -
[34]
In space it doesn't matter how you ship looks, it doesn't have to contend with atmospheres or anything that would cause drag. It's simply a collection of parts that work together. Us Gallente just like to make things pretty. ______________________________
The best way to predict the future is to invent it. |
Arkios Odymei
Incarnation of Evil Karnal Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.07.23 00:10:00 -
[35]
You forgot the Moa... ------------------------------------------------------------------
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Stitcher
Caldari legion of qui Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.23 00:10:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
There are certain things that really annoy me about some of the ships which I am very enthusiastic about CCP fixing - their ridiculous, impractical, illogical and inexplicable fear of symmetry, for example. The Rokh should be symmetrical. It really should, but they have to put that stupid little thing on one side that serves no purpose except breaking the symmetry. Also, the Atron totally, totally needs to be symmetrical. It would look immensely badass if it had wings on both sides rather than on just one.
Isn't it funny how you never hear people complaining about the Millennium Falcon's asymmetrical design, but all the A/S ships in EVE catch flak for it near-constantly...? ***
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Dubious Drewski
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Posted - 2007.07.23 00:12:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Stitcher I think that the development is down largely to CCP's expansion and increasing professionalism as a games developer rather than a lack of talent in the first place. As they've advanced and grown so too has the vision of EVE been refined and improved.
Yup, I think you're right about that. I suppose that explains things. Looking at the overhaul screens also gives me a bit of hope.
Originally by: Stitcher btw: you might want to convert those IMG tags to just straight links.
Good idea. Done.
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Hannobaal
Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.07.23 00:19:00 -
[38]
How can you not like the Caracal? To me it's one of the more beautiful space ship designs in Eve. It at least looks like freaking combat space ship.
The Dominix looks more like a shoe than a space ship. And that's a problem I have with a lot of Gallente ships - they look so damn cheesy. A frigate that looks like a fish, another that looks more like a giant flying robot than anything else, and a cruiser (which otherwise could have been so good) with big droopy eyes on it.... What the hell??? ------------------
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GPerson
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2007.07.23 00:21:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Sunabi I had a go at redesigning the Raven a while back. I tried to keep the same general appearance while bearing in mind the style of the new Caldari ships like the Drake. Naturally my model's fugly and blocky but you should be able to see my general idea:
Linky
AAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!! >.< That design just awoke very bad memories from an oldish game. I now hate you.
~~~Sig Stuffs Here~~~ I highly recommend drunken posting. This sig has been unhighjacked since 2005. |
psylenz
Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.23 00:27:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Stitcher Edited by: Stitcher on 22/07/2007 23:01:49
The Moa, on the other hand, is the ugliest thing ever to fly.
Agreed. I sold mine almost right after buying it. It sucked (or my gunnery skills did) but I couldn't take flying it anymore.
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Lord Evangelian
Gallente LEAP Corp United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2007.07.23 00:35:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Lord Evangelian on 23/07/2007 00:34:53 Look at the EVE online vid here the scorpian at '00:23' is the new design, that vid was made '2006-05-10' (before it was announced to comunity) showing they have been workign on the ship designs for a while.
New Scorp Old Scorp
Check the one in the video, you'll see im not wrong I noticed it a while ago but this seems the apropiate place to tell people so there ya go ------------------------------------------
One day I'll show you...and then you will bow down... |
gpYUAN29
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Posted - 2007.07.23 00:41:00 -
[42]
Similar to several other posters in this thread I have also studied the graphic arts and have an Advanced Diploma in that regard with a focus on 3D modelling. I don't work in the field but I have the skill, qualification and experience necessary to offer contrived and bitter remarks about how utterly **** that kind of work and how bad it is as a profession. You can make more money breaking a sweat and working half the hours. What? Huh?
Anyway, I digress.
There is beauty in asymmetry. You can't polish a turd. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Some might think the Raven is ugly. I think it's original, unique, sharp and intimidating. It displays an idea of design that sits above the plane of cliched pedestrian spaceship objets d' art.
Caldari designs also generally reflect on the story of their race. Each race in Eve is supposed to be completely different and (in an aesthetic sense) that is represented in the style of their ships. The Raven's design is perfectly suited to the Caldari. Caldari are all about efficiency, and hiring a fruity Gallente to design their ships does not truly represent their philosophy.
The design fits the story. CCP have done an excellent job with the Raven. Keep up the good work.
P.S. I vote for the Myrmidon/Harbinger as the Ugliest And Most Likely To Be Designed By 3rd Year Student ships in Eve.
Ta.
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Luna Rossa Corporation SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.23 00:43:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Stitcher Isn't it funny how you never hear people complaining about the Millennium Falcon's asymmetrical design, but all the A/S ships in EVE catch flak for it near-constantly...?
The Millenium Falcon can do asymmetry WELL, though. You should either do asymmetry awesomely or not do it at all. There are very few truly asymmetrical ships (things like the Rokh, Hurricane, Drake, Phoenix etc. don't REALLY count in this particular example because they're mostly symmetrical) that actually look any good. I'd say there's the Tempest, the Ferox and the Heron, and they're about the only decent asymmetrical ships I can find.
The rest are... ahem, ASSymmetrical.
Originally by: GPerson AAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!! >.< That design just awoke very bad memories from an oldish game. I now hate you.
Was it by any chance one of the Descent games?
----- I think it's little enough to ask that every Amarrian roll over and die so I can live in my vision of a perfect world. |
Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.23 01:57:00 -
[44]
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It's not a science. One can say "I think it's beautiful" and be right, one can even say "This is symmetrical, balanced, and follows the norm in design today". But don't be so nanve to say it's some objective truth, nor that all prominent designers would agree with you.
I think both the caracal and the raven look fine, and I'm also a third year designer student. Though that ethos is pointless, there will always be some designers who hold something in high regard, and classify something else that another designer loves as complete crap.
Matters of taste is the worst subject to discuss, as 95% of it is posturing. So let's just stop and end it at "you don't like it", mmm'kay?
- Recruitment open again-
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codex09
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.07.23 02:13:00 -
[45]
You think those ships are fugly take a good look at most if not all the mimatar ships!
The typhoon looks like something that broke off a station some place, some of the smaller ships look like they were put together from bits of scrap metal that was floating around in space.
However when it comes down to it the ships aren't made to look good they are made as gears of war and as long as they do the job they are supposed to do what does it matter what they look like?
I mean would you rather have the looks or the fighting power?
In The Beginning Man Lived Just Like The Animals & For Some Nothing Has Changed!?! |
Hannobaal
Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.07.23 03:00:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It's not a science. One can say "I think it's beautiful" and be right, one can even say "This is symmetrical, balanced, and follows the norm in design today". But don't be so nanve to say it's some objective truth, nor that all prominent designers would agree with you.
I think both the caracal and the raven look fine, and I'm also a third year designer student. Though that ethos is pointless, there will always be some designers who hold something in high regard, and classify something else that another designer loves as complete crap.
QFT ------------------
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2007.07.23 03:27:00 -
[47]
I'd rather have all the hack designers in the world make new ships than let the guy who engineered the Dominix back behind the drawingboard... *looks over the Hyperion* God damnit!
Also Known As |
Tarron Sarek
Gallente Endica Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.23 03:30:00 -
[48]
I like the design of the Raven, although I don't fly one. As somebody else pointed out, it's pretty unique. The only ugly thing about it is the rear. The front looks great. Well ok, the texture could also be redone, but that applies to many ships.
The Caracal looks good imho. Don't know why so many people have a problem with it.
If all ships would be Symmetrical and sleek, that'd be quite boring, and generic.
_________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well.. - |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.23 03:45:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Steve Holt Ow so i guess you have a better one to show us, a much more professional and better looking model lets see then.... No?
oh so now we cant critique professionals unless we can do better than them? quit posting
____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
F'nog
Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
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Posted - 2007.07.23 03:55:00 -
[50]
Originally by: syphurous In space it doesn't matter how you ship looks, it doesn't have to contend with atmospheres or anything that would cause drag. It's simply a collection of parts that work together. Us Gallente just like to make things pretty.
Not really true. You still have to deal with center of mass. This is what really annoys me about the Blackbird. Do you realize how much computing power would have to go into keeping all those engines firing at the correct force to keep the ship from tearing itself apart.
There's no drag, but there's still inertia. This is why just about all space ships you'll see in realistic movies and shows about ships that could travel to another planet in our lifetimes are symmetrical. It's much easier to make them fly in a "straight" line and turn or rotate without putting undue stress on them if they're mostly symmetrical, or at least have their center of mass in the actual center, along with most of that mass.
I used to get It. Then It changed. Now I don't even know what It is.
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Jacques Danton
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.07.23 11:25:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Jacques Danton on 23/07/2007 11:26:38
Originally by: F'nog
Originally by: syphurous In space it doesn't matter how you ship looks, it doesn't have to contend with atmospheres or anything that would cause drag. It's simply a collection of parts that work together. Us Gallente just like to make things pretty.
Not really true. You still have to deal with center of mass. This is what really annoys me about the Blackbird. Do you realize how much computing power would have to go into keeping all those engines firing at the correct force to keep the ship from tearing itself apart.
There's no drag, but there's still inertia. This is why just about all space ships you'll see in realistic movies and shows about ships that could travel to another planet in our lifetimes are symmetrical. It's much easier to make them fly in a "straight" line and turn or rotate without putting undue stress on them if they're mostly symmetrical, or at least have their center of mass in the actual center, along with most of that mass.
Well, said. For me most of the Caldari ships are ugly visually, but are even more ugly from a logical point of view. They are overcomplicated for no apparent reason, no functional reason and are asymmetrical seemingly *just* for the sake of it. No sane engineer would design a machine of war to look like the Moa - it's like a bad joke, that "neck" makes for a perfect weak point allowing for a well aimed shot to "behead" the crew, while the body is made to look like a brick of metal - pure absense of logic and a shape made just to fit a silly name...
War machines are not designed to look like the animals they are named after. War machines are all about functionality, performance, cost and ease of production/maintenance. Caldari ships for the most part fail at all those points - they are made as complicated as possible, dysfunctional at best and operating them must be hell just for the sake of the odd appearance - as pointed out - just calculating the thrust vectors to navigate them must have been the reason Caldari became so good at CPU technology, otherwise the ship's CPU would have been devoted just at piloting those bricks of ugliness...
That's what's bugging me - the designs were made with zero forethought of logical functional design, but instead along the lines of pointlessly spiky and most "importantly" asymmetry "just because". Additionally some of the gun hardpoints are just idiotic - if you have a look at where the Moa places the guns you might get an idea - that thing realistically would not be able to fire forward even, not with most of the guns that is - the design is *that* dysfunctional...
Asymmetrical designs can be functional, logical and even beautiful but they require a lot more talent to be pulled off properly - designing asymmetrical ships just for the sake of it by people without the proper talent doesn't do it. I cannot say that CCP doesn't have any talent at all as most of the Gallente designs are absolutely brilliant as far as I'm concerned, the textures are not enough of that military-straight-to-the-matter type for some, but the designs themselves are pure beauty and still imply functionality and still look intimidating. Even with Gallente you can see where the artificial "guidelines" to make the ships asymmetrical took over to screw an otherwise good designs though...
Caldari with their blocky design philosophy should have been in theory a lot easier to pull off, but CCP have failed in so many ways designing those... even screwing good designs seemingly in the last moment *just* for the sake of making parts of them asymmetrical as the Cormorant/Ferox - a silly decision...
I would *really* appreciate if some ships gets an overhaul
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Steini OFSI
Gallente Minigame
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Posted - 2007.07.23 11:30:00 -
[52]
Each race has their style and their artist. I like the models for what they are, sorry to say but this is the most logical designe ever, fitting for Caldari, raw and devoid of unnessecary curves and decorations, does it job and is a baddass.
SCREW ARTISTS AND BRING IN THE ENGINEERS AND GIVE ME A MISSILE BOAT
As caldari as it gets and the "artist" got that right
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Ares Lightfeather
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.07.23 11:46:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 23/07/2007 11:46:55
Originally by: Stitcher
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
There are certain things that really annoy me about some of the ships which I am very enthusiastic about CCP fixing - their ridiculous, impractical, illogical and inexplicable fear of symmetry, for example. The Rokh should be symmetrical. It really should, but they have to put that stupid little thing on one side that serves no purpose except breaking the symmetry. Also, the Atron totally, totally needs to be symmetrical. It would look immensely badass if it had wings on both sides rather than on just one.
Isn't it funny how you never hear people complaining about the Millennium Falcon's asymmetrical design, but all the A/S ships in EVE catch flak for it near-constantly...?
That is probably because the Millenium Falcon overall shape IS symetrical. Face it, and draw an horizontal line to convince yourself...
-- Siggie ! Come back here ! --
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job
Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstra |
Edey
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.07.23 12:02:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
Originally by: Sunabi Linky
That's badass. I'd fly that.
Me too. Looks better then present Raven :) __________________________________________________
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Suboran
Gallente Sphinx Inc Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.07.23 12:14:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Dubious Drewski
There are plenty of ugly ships in Eve (Domi, for example)
anyway i always imagines the wings on a raven are shield extenters or something. caldari ships seem to be designed with function in mind and not exessive polish like gallente
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Jacques Danton
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.07.23 12:27:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Suboran
Originally by: Dubious Drewski
There are plenty of ugly ships in Eve (Domi, for example)
anyway i always imagines the wings on a raven are shield extenters or something. caldari ships seem to be designed with dysfunction in mind and not exessive polish like gallente
There - fixed it for you...
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2007.07.23 13:01:00 -
[57]
I like the raven and caracal tbh. The raven looks alot like the shadow vessels from babylon 5, and they were pretty damn cool, so even though it's not the same I like to think it's just as badass sometimes ;)
As for the caracal, It's supposed to look like a 'flimsy missile ship',,, flimsy definately comes into it's design, and I actually kinda like it too, got a look to it like some of the old ships in Thunder Force. Improve Market Competition! |
Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
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Posted - 2007.07.23 13:18:00 -
[58]
Caracal looks alright, raven is kind of ugly, but if you want really messed up check out the scorp, moa, and celestis. Seems they got a new ship artist cause all the new ships added in patches actually look like spaceships and not some kind of abstract art project.
I doubt the ship models are going to be significantly redesigned though, just get more detail and stuff hanging off and such. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
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Plentimon
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.07.23 13:35:00 -
[59]
Originally by: MotherMoon
haven't you seen the model gallery yet?
There's a gallery somewhere? Link please?
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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.23 13:39:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Dubious Drewski Hey all, just wondering what all your opinions are on this topic: The ugliness of the Caracal Cruiser and the Raven BS.
I don't just mean ugly as in aesthetically unpleasing. There are plenty of ugly ships in Eve (Domi, for example) The difference is that the Domi looks professionally designed.
The Raven, on the other hand, is a very unproffesional design. It is ugly not only because it was probably meant to be, but the design itself is actually very amateur. There doesn't appear to be any thought put into in the layout or shape of the ship. Just big, chunky random blocks stuck together in a sort of bird-like shape.
I'm a 3rd year new media student, I sometimes make bad designs like this when I design vehicles, but that's why I'm still a student. The Caracal and especially the Raven look like the kind of thing a student hands in at the last-minute hoping to get at least a C grade on the project.
I propose they get a new design when CCP introduces these graphical upgrades in the future. Don't change their functionallity at all, just give them a visual overhaul, please.
Now the Drake, that's an ugly, but super sexy design!
Your opinion. Nice.
A little retort though, at some of your 'design' reasoning. It's in space. It can't land. To some extent, the designers realised this, and literally did just get all the bits they needed, then tried to weld them in a vague shape. There is no streamlining needed.
I'd have thought as a design student, you would have realised that. :-)
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