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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.18 12:36:00 -
[1]
I lived in 0.0 for the last year. First in scalading pass, then in venal and finally ended in geminate. Im doing alot of pvp and pvp is an expensive hobby;) I just never manage to earn enough isk in 0.0 so I always have to go back to empire to run lvl 4's to earn some decent isk. I really liked to be able to skip the empire part completely so this are my suggestions for making it viable living in 0.0 23/7:
1. Outpost can hire mission agents 2. Much higher spawn rate in belts 3. Higher officer chance 4. Onboard scanner can read npc ships again
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DubanFP
Caldari Four Rings D-L
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Posted - 2007.07.18 12:40:00 -
[2]
This is what i'm talking about ______________________
DubanFP> I stopped capitalizing the g in goonswarm a little while back. I find they no longer deserved the little bit of extra effort required to press the shift key. |
Xtreem
Gallente Golden Orb Technology inc
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Posted - 2007.07.18 12:41:00 -
[3]
higher officer chance would incease the amount of officer loot available which would lower the cost and make it much like faction, and then common, then when common not worth yoru while again.
0.0 is meant to be an ars3 to survive in, thats why most people dont go there. I love the fact that in 0.0 u stop a few ships and they have to scrimp and save to get anywhere again, its a way to win a war!
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.18 12:42:00 -
[4]
prolly you do not have anythng to complain cuz you live in dev space?;)
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.18 12:45:00 -
[5]
Quote: 0.0 is meant to be an ars3 to survive in, thats why most people dont go there. I love the fact that in 0.0 u stop a few ships and they have to scrimp and save to get anywhere again, its a way to win a war!
im fine with that if empire would be much more of an arse then:)
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Ulii
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Posted - 2007.07.18 12:47:00 -
[6]
Originally by: d026
Quote: 0.0 is meant to be an ars3 to survive in, thats why most people dont go there. I love the fact that in 0.0 u stop a few ships and they have to scrimp and save to get anywhere again, its a way to win a war!
im fine with that if empire would be much more of an arse then:)
it is... if you lose ships. the same goes for 0.0. althou for 0.0 it is hard to avoid losing a few
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Gutsani
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.18 12:49:00 -
[7]
then go run lvl4 missions for all i care .. lol
1 hour of ratting, in a decent region gives you AT LEAST 30m, and probably closer to 70m, isk an hour. if you lose ships/isk at a higher rate, i advice you to stop pvping.
now on the other hand, try ratting in lowsec, that makes you what? 2m isk an hour? and the risk there is way higher.
this thread fails to deliver.
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.18 12:50:00 -
[8]
No! Empire is overpowered and its to easy to earn isk there. So either buff 0.0 or nerf empire.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.07.18 12:51:00 -
[9]
humm... but most of 0.0 is pretty safe... sure, there are the camps at null-sec entrances and maybe a very few jumps further until the the first mentionable crossing. from then on it's mostly calm. sure, they might bubble up a direct route or close down a dead end behind you but that's it. if you own a piece of space it's fairly easy money. granted, not as much as in low-sec mission running but quite a bit easier.
but yeah, 0.0 could be a lil more sexy -.- -
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.18 12:54:00 -
[10]
Quote: if you own a piece of space it's fairly easy money
Yeah its easy money but not nearly as much as i can do in my pimped cnr in a nice 0.5 system witha q 18 agent without any risk.
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Gutsani
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.18 12:57:00 -
[11]
Originally by: d026
Quote: if you own a piece of space it's fairly easy money
Yeah its easy money but not nearly as much as i can do in my pimped cnr in a nice 0.5 system witha q 18 agent without any risk.
hence why they should move all lvl4 agents to lowsec, problem solved. in a good 0.0 region, you could easely make 70m isk an hour .. try doing that with agent running.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.07.18 13:08:00 -
[12]
Originally by: d026 1. Outpost can hire mission agents
maybe a lil too easy... but i'd like hireable R&D agents =) (r&d corps according to outpost type mayhap blahblah) -
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Shenko Minara
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Posted - 2007.07.18 13:23:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Gutsani hence why they should move all lvl4 agents to lowsec, problem solved. in a good 0.0 region, you could easely make 70m isk an hour .. try doing that with agent running.
Sorry, but realistically, using a single character, and including travelling time between belts, gates, stations and any loot storage cans you have, and excluding any faction/officer/hauler spawns, you will make 20-30 mil/hour tops. It's slightly more than you'd get running missions in NPC 0.0, and also slightly more risky. But you won't earn 70m isk/hour. -- 99% of Eve-o posters should stop posting. This probably includes me, but definitely includes you. |
Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Riggers Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.07.18 13:32:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Jaketh Ivanes on 18/07/2007 13:32:08
You don't have to go to empire and run missions if you really don't like it. You can just stay in 0.0.
But, if the choice is between buffing 0.0 or nerfing empire, i go for nerfing empire. It will keep you out of PVP even longer than now, because you will not earn all that super easy risk free isk for your PvP toys.
EDIT: Removed bad comment
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Gutsani
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.18 13:53:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Shenko Minara
Sorry, but realistically, using a single character, and including travelling time between belts, gates, stations and any loot storage cans you have, and excluding any faction/officer/hauler spawns, you will make 20-30 mil/hour tops. It's slightly more than you'd get running missions in NPC 0.0, and also slightly more risky. But you won't earn 70m isk/hour.
Unless you can give me accurate chances for all npc spawns to appear, i believe my own chances.
3 * 1.8m = 5.4
=> profit from a 3 * 1.8m bs spawn = 5.4m
chance of finding a 3 * 1.8m spawn in faction controlled 0.0 space: between 13% and 17%
(all) chances seem to increase after long times ratting in the same system(s)
=> +- 8 belts = 5.4m
0.5 minutes max to scout a belt +- 3 minutes to kill a 3 * 1.8m spawn 1 minute to change system once you scouted all the belts
ratting 8 belts = 8 * 0.5 + 3 = 4 + 3 = +-7 minutes
=> each 7 minutes you make 5.4m isk
60/7 * 5.4m = 46 m isk
=> each hour you make 46m isk without scooping loot or salvaging
46m isk without any faction spawns, 24m more and i'm at 70m isk. I'm pretty sure you can make that an hour.
If you only make 30m an hour? Then you probably lose isk by scooping loot and/or salvaging the wrecks and/or by killing other npc spawns that reduce your profit and/or you are npcing in a crap system or region and/or your npc ship is just crap.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.18 14:08:00 -
[16]
0.0 ratting not good nuff? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.18 14:13:00 -
[17]
Quote: 0.0 ratting not good nuff?
no
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tarisai hsaun
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.18 14:28:00 -
[18]
0.0 ratting is fine. nothing needs buffed, nothing needs nerfed.
i'm really unsure if what you are asking is in the spirit of the game i.e making hundreds of millions a day in the most quiet areas of the galaxy to outfit a small personal fleet...
many people have already made their billions, and did so without having anything changed to their specifications.
you want mega bucks? look to new avenues of income...
i make all my money 0.0 ratting: and although i'm by no means rich, i've always enough to replace a loss.
my signature is post-modernist in nature. it's cool before cool was cool. |
Dietes Marcellus
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Posted - 2007.07.18 14:32:00 -
[19]
Originally by: d026
2. Much higher spawn rate in belts
No
for the miners
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.18 14:37:00 -
[20]
Quote: i make all my money 0.0 ratting: and although i'm by no means rich, i've always enough to replace a loss.
i make all my money in empire and i am rich.
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baaaaal
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Posted - 2007.07.18 14:40:00 -
[21]
Quote: humm... but most of 0.0 is pretty safe... sure, there are the camps at null-sec entrances and maybe a very few jumps further until the the first mentionable crossing. from then on it's mostly calm. sure, they might bubble up a direct route or close down a dead end behind you but that's it. if you own a piece of space it's fairly easy money. granted, not as much as in low-sec mission running but quite a bit easier.
you sound as though your suggesting 0.0 is to safe so the money there should be worse than empire but its only safe because alot of people work hard spending alot of time and money keeping it that way.
lets face is the ammount of money you can make in empire compared to the ammount u can make on average in 0.0 is far out of proportion compared to what it was when eve first entered retail.
empire money making got bugged a hell of alot over the years. 0.0 got buffed a little
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tarisai hsaun
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.18 14:45:00 -
[22]
Originally by: d026 i make all my money in empire and i am rich.
seems like your eve life is just peachy then. no? you want 0.0 to be buffed so that you don't need to make a trip to empire to stay rich?
my point is, you will always make enough money in 0.0 to continue to PVP. you don't want enough money to PVP, you want to stay rich and PVP: so i'd say the way things are currently seems about right...
in RL you make the big bucks in the commercial hubs working your way to the top, or coming up with a genious and cunning plan.
you do not make the big bucks out in the wilderness, alone.
it all makes alot of sense.
my signature is post-modernist in nature. it's cool before cool was cool. |
Sabian Treehugger
Minmatar 54th Knights Templar O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.07.18 14:50:00 -
[23]
Originally by: d026
1. Outpost can hire mission agents
This would so fix the drone regions in so many ways . It's so annoying when all the fighters are in empire doing missions to make isk.
But this is too smart for CCP so it will never happen.
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Hannobaal
Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:03:00 -
[24]
Fly cheaper ships. ------------------
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Dez Affinity
Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:37:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Hannobaal Fly cheaper ships.
Good idea and while he's at it you can ask his enemies to fly t1 frigates too?
To be honest, ratting is so boring, I manage to do it for maybe an hour or two then that's it I have to leave EVE or go PvP. This usually nets me about 15 million not including loot. I don't rat everyday, I have to replace losses, buy ships in new places and at marked up prices. I have trouble buying battleships because I spend my money on other ships (lower class) just so I can afford to replace them and not spend my entire time on EVE. _______________
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Shenko Minara
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:46:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Gutsani
---->8---- *snip* a lot of dodgy maths ---->8--- 46m isk without any faction spawns, 24m more and i'm at 70m isk. I'm pretty sure you can make that an hour.
If you only make 30m an hour? Then you probably lose isk by scooping loot and/or salvaging the wrecks and/or by killing other npc spawns that reduce your profit and/or you are npcing in a crap system or region and/or your npc ship is just crap.
Okay, without making a mess of point-on-point rebuttal, I'll explain where you're wrong. I had written a long winded mathematical explanation where I trimmed and altered your assumptions based on more real world input for an 'average' player. However, I realised where your argument falls apart is quite simple.
According to your analysis (and disregarding your assumptions that 'seem' to occur) you have a 13-17% chance of getting a top-tier triple spawn. That gives you a 83-87% chance that it won't be. Don't forget that each time you have an 83-87% chance of having to waste 4 or 5 minutes clearing a smaller spawn that you don't want and aren't geared towards dealing with in haste. I'm sure there are people that can explain the part of Probability maths to point out the the result of your 'roll of the dice' won't affect the following one. I haven't the energy anymore.
The 46million isk you are quoting is perhaps feasible given uber skills and perfect circumstances, but in a real-world situation, you have to deal with annoying lower-tier spawns, chains being broken by other ratters, gankers, rats de-spawning, travelling for more ammo (lol amarr) and other factors such as lower lock times for those fitting cloaks (to protect from gankers) and the need for ****-breaks. :D
I'm not saying you aren't managing it with 5 or 6 hours of straight ratting (and the time to set up good chains), but for avarage Joe with a couple of hours to kill, sorry, you're wrong. Realistically, for an above average ratter, barring faction spawns, you will make slightly more than the average mission runner. But when you then balance the LP shop against the chance of faction spawns, it all evens out.
-- 99% of Eve-o posters should stop posting. This probably includes me, but definitely includes you. |
Gutsani
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.18 16:54:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Shenko Minara
complete bull****
lol
you do realise there is no reason to kill everything in the belts, right? and as for lost time in a not so perfect world; you have enough ammo to rat +- 5 hours in a deimos, and if you dont rat on a pipe system the chance of getting ganked is also pretty low. my calculations are correct (or close to), you just fail to implement em...
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Alpine 69
Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.07.18 17:16:00 -
[28]
Originally by: d026
Quote: i make all my money 0.0 ratting: and although i'm by no means rich, i've always enough to replace a loss.
i make all my money in empire and i am rich.
Then shut up.
Besides, if you can't make more in 0.0 then you can in empire then you are stupid.
Sweet love for the ones that mod my sig <3 From her? You're on. -Rauth |
Ginger Lynn
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Posted - 2007.07.18 17:29:00 -
[29]
In a -0.9 system I expect after having some good chains up to make after a couple hours of setting good spawns up close to 30m if perfect conditions:all spawns 1.5m+ x3 and atleast 3-4 of thoose setup as chains during any given time, considering despawning and warping to other belts for the chains and no bloody dire spawns I'am considering 25m to be just about the top of 0.0 ratting/hour.
Since your making 46m/hour at the least I'am more then interested in knowing your setup and more in detail how you go about it since I'am obvously making only 60% of what I could be.
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Shenko Minara
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Posted - 2007.07.18 21:13:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Gutsani
Originally by: Shenko Minara
complete bull****
lol
you do realise there is no reason to kill everything in the belts, right? and as for lost time in a not so perfect world; you have enough ammo to rat +- 5 hours in a deimos, and if you dont rat on a pipe system the chance of getting ganked is also pretty low. my calculations are correct (or close to), you just fail to implement em...
You know, you could do yourself a favour and fully read my post, comprehend it, then post a reply. I'm fully aware of the fact you don't have to kill everything at a belt, hence my mentioning 'chains' which is a term an expert ratter like you should know. But if you don't kill a worthless spawn, you have to wait 20-25 minutes for it to de-spawn followed by a delay of an empty belt before facing another shot at getting the top-tier spawn. And if you were the ace-ratter you say you are, you'd know your chances of changing the spawn type go up if you wipe a spawn, and go down if you 'chain' it (i.e. keep the frig rats alive).
I'd lay the ISK from an hour of my ratting against the ISK from an hour of your ratting that most people will agree the average you can get from ratting (barring faction spawns) is 20-30mil/hour. That's a long way from your original claim of 70mil ISK and even a way from your quite lunatic 46mil.
And despite your objections, your calculations are incorrect, and all you've done to back them up is say "well the likely hood of this is low". I really don't care if you believe you are making 46m/hour ratting, but I don't want to see newbies go off and waste hours trying to replicate that situation, because it won't happen.
-- 99% of Eve-o posters should stop posting. This probably includes me, but definitely includes you. |
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