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Guillame Herschel
Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2007.07.17 00:30:00 -
[1]
What's not to like about falloff rigs?
1. They are dirt cheap. Made from common salvage parts that can drop from lots of different NPCs. You can buy the salvage to make one off the market for a couple million. If you salvage missions, you probably have enough on hand to make one right now.
2. They have no stacking penalty.
3. They boost primarily --- wait for it -- Minmatar ships!
Three falloff rigs on a Minmatar cruiser or BC with medium autocannons gets you 22km falloff with Trajectory Analysis 5. All Minmatar cruisers and BC can easily fit their best autocannon and have plenty of PG left over to cover the drawback, even with level 1 Projectile Rig skill.
Dare I mention it? Does the Ambit Extension amount to a stealth boost for Minmatar?
-- Guile can always trump hardware -- |
Terianna Eri
Amarr STK Scientific M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.07.17 00:40:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Terianna Eri on 17/07/2007 00:39:56 shush i use them don't get them nerfed please :D __________________________________
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Kua Immortal
RSP Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.17 00:50:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Kua Immortal on 17/07/2007 00:50:20 Compared to a gyro they're really not adding much dps. Yes you can hit a little further out, but you can already hit outside web and (to a certain extent) medium nos range.
Add to that the fact that your turrets need more PG to fit. I'm not sure any of the weapon rigs are worth fitting. Weapon upgrades are so much better and there are better uses for those rig slots.
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Jei'son Bladesmith
Bladesmith Mining and Development Consortium
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Posted - 2007.07.17 01:08:00 -
[4]
never occured to me to try em with ACs. May play around with that on my next machariel.
Otherwise I've never much liked weapon rigs as I always seem to be strapped for grid. Personally I like rigs that enhance my capacitor or tank, seems to give more bang for my buck, tho my corpmate always sweared by his damage rigs for his siege raven.
☼☼☼ Don't even THINK about it rookie...I have all my capacitor and more hit points than you can POSSIBLY imagine. ☼☼☼
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Mortuus
Minmatar Viper Squad Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.17 04:00:00 -
[5]
I love them. Also love slapping 2 tracking rigs on a 220mm 'cane and popping ceptors left and right....without a need for a web.
ex-Occassus Republica <3 |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.17 09:45:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kua Immortal Edited by: Kua Immortal on 17/07/2007 00:50:20 Compared to a gyro they're really not adding much dps. Yes you can hit a little further out, but you can already hit outside web and (to a certain extent) medium nos range.
Add to that the fact that your turrets need more PG to fit. I'm not sure any of the weapon rigs are worth fitting. Weapon upgrades are so much better and there are better uses for those rig slots.
ACs have very low powergrid usage, most minmatar AC ships can fit falloff rigs without sacrificing anything else in the setup. And you can't really compare falloff rigs with damage mods. For one thing one is a rig and the other a mod, for the other they can be used both at the same time with no penalty. Just because you have damage mods doesn't mean you can't have falloff rigs.
So lets do 2 comparisons. First with take a hurricane with 220mm ACs, and no damage mods. On one we put 3 falloff rigs, on the other 2 rof and 1 damage rig (best combination for pure dps). The falloff rig version will start outdamaging the rof/damage rig version at 10km if you use t1 ammo and 16km if you use barrage.
Then we put 2 damage mods as well on them. Now there is no contest, because of stacking penalty the falloff version will outdamage the rof/damage version at 7 and 11km respectively.
But for the record lets do your comparison. 3 damage mods vs 3 falloff rigs. With t1 ammo the falloff rigs will out damage the damage mods from 12km with t1 ammo and 19km with barrage.
In age of heavy nos and 24km scramblers these numbers looks very good for the falloff rigs if you ask me. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Cpt Branko
Guardian Heroes
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Posted - 2007.07.17 10:28:00 -
[7]
Both the damage rig and the ROF rig essentially suck, especially compared with tanking rigs. That's one of the things which makes tank>>gank ;P
A Gyro beats a damage rig or a ROF rig - you need both to work as one Gyro II (actually a tad worse, I believe), what costs quite a bit of powergrid and 30+ mil.
Anyway, falloff rigs give you something unique (what you can't get with a module).
First, they push out your engagement range with all short-range guns which have a larger falloff then optimal (read, ACs).
Second, they increase the damage you do in falloff due to increased to hit chance.
The thing why it's so good on Minmatar and not Gallente is that blasters have half the falloff of ACs, and blaster users don't have Barrage, alongside with the simple fact that blaster users can't fit any energy weapon rigs because they couldn't fit their ships anymore due to too high PG requirements *..
Of course, you have to take into account that Minmatar BCs / Cruisers rarely fit their highest tier guns and fit lowest or mid tier instead because the tracking loss outweighs the minor DPS increase, hence having a very decent amount of powergrid left.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.07.17 10:44:00 -
[8]
Positive posts about minmatar makes me worried, because last time that happened, hurricane lost a turret.
---
Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
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Santa Anna
Caldari Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.17 11:04:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Of course, you have to take into account that Minmatar BCs / Cruisers rarely fit their highest tier guns and fit lowest or mid tier instead because the tracking loss outweighs the minor DPS increase, hence having a very decent amount of powergrid left.
Minmatar ships don't have spare grid because they fit 220's over 425's, btw. They have spare grid with AC's because of artillery. If a ship can be used effectively with artillery, it will have a little extra grid with AC's. The spread between 425's and 720's (121) is much larger than the analogous spread between neutrons and 250's (24).
Minmatar also generally are one or two guns short of a full rack (sometimes more) and need grid for their other high slots. This means their guns contribute a smaller percentage of total grid usage and thus an extra 8% is more easily absorbed. _____ Heat Warfare |
Aversin
Gallente Order of the Holy Crustulum Giant Space Amoeba
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Posted - 2007.07.17 11:10:00 -
[10]
I fully support this thread.
Originally by: Razner Cerizo They will never quit. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
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Cpt Branko
Guardian Heroes
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Posted - 2007.07.17 11:21:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Santa Anna
Minmatar ships don't have spare grid because they fit 220's over 425's, btw. They have spare grid with AC's because of artillery. If a ship can be used effectively with artillery, it will have a little extra grid with AC's. The spread between 425's and 720's (121) is much larger than the analogous spread between neutrons and 250's (24).
Yeah, that as well. Haven't really considered it so far because I primarily cram short range guns on my ships ;P
Anyway, let's not say that out loud a lot, else they'll nerf AC fittings!
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Tanox
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Posted - 2007.07.17 11:30:00 -
[12]
Time to campaign for a stacking penalty on falloff rigs!
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Santa Anna
Caldari Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.17 11:35:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tanox Time to campaign for a stacking penalty on falloff rigs!
The best way to prevent the overuse of falloff rigs is just to give minmatar more turret hardpoints. That would make it much harder to put multiple turret rigs on the ship. _____ Heat Warfare |
Tanox
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Posted - 2007.07.17 11:37:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Santa Anna
Originally by: Tanox Time to campaign for a stacking penalty on falloff rigs!
The best way to prevent the overuse of falloff rigs is just to give minmatar more turret hardpoints. That would make it much harder to put multiple turret rigs on the ship.
Why bother? Just slap a stacking penalty on the rigs, like there should have been in the first place.
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Santa Anna
Caldari Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.17 11:42:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tanox
Originally by: Santa Anna
Originally by: Tanox Time to campaign for a stacking penalty on falloff rigs!
The best way to prevent the overuse of falloff rigs is just to give minmatar more turret hardpoints. That would make it much harder to put multiple turret rigs on the ship.
Why bother? Just slap a stacking penalty on the rigs, like there should have been in the first place.
*nudge*
No, I think you mean the Hurricane needs another turret.
*nudge* _____ Heat Warfare |
Tanox
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Posted - 2007.07.17 11:45:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Santa Anna
Originally by: Tanox
Originally by: Santa Anna
Originally by: Tanox Time to campaign for a stacking penalty on falloff rigs!
The best way to prevent the overuse of falloff rigs is just to give minmatar more turret hardpoints. That would make it much harder to put multiple turret rigs on the ship.
Why bother? Just slap a stacking penalty on the rigs, like there should have been in the first place.
*nudge*
No, I think you mean the Hurricane needs another turret.
*nudge*
Yes, about as much as the world needs websites like www.sexydonkeyandgranny.com.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2007.07.17 11:45:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Santa Anna
Originally by: Tanox Time to campaign for a stacking penalty on falloff rigs!
The best way to prevent the overuse of falloff rigs is just to give minmatar more turret hardpoints. That would make it much harder to put multiple turret rigs on the ship.
Yes! Please! Nerf minmatar! Nerf, nerf, nerfity, NERF! Nerf them with another turret point! Bad, ugly, naughty minmatar. Their ships smell like old cheese... Smite them with another turret hardpoint!
For some reason that made me think of Castle Anthrax...
------------------- WE'RE SORRY, SOMETHING HAPPENED |
Santa Anna
Caldari Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.17 11:48:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Roy Batty68
Originally by: Santa Anna
Originally by: Tanox Time to campaign for a stacking penalty on falloff rigs!
The best way to prevent the overuse of falloff rigs is just to give minmatar more turret hardpoints. That would make it much harder to put multiple turret rigs on the ship.
Yes! Please! Nerf minmatar! Nerf, nerf, nerfity, NERF! Nerf them with another turret point! Bad, ugly, naughty minmatar. Their ships smell like old cheese... Smite them with another turret hardpoint!
For some reason that made me think of Castle Anthrax...
That's what I was going for, hehe. _____ Heat Warfare |
Cpt Branko
Guardian Heroes
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Posted - 2007.07.17 11:54:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Tanox Time to campaign for a stacking penalty on falloff rigs!
You lose. If Minmatar are so overpowered, why do you fly Gallente then?
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Santa Anna
Caldari Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.17 12:07:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Tanox Time to campaign for a stacking penalty on falloff rigs!
I'd be fine with a stacking penalty on falloff rigs if we got a module that increased falloff range. (Or if tracking comps/tracking enhancers were modified to improve falloff as well) _____ Heat Warfare |
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Tanox
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Posted - 2007.07.17 13:02:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Tanox Time to campaign for a stacking penalty on falloff rigs!
You lose. If Minmatar are so overpowered, why do you fly Gallente then?
Actually, I fly both.
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Sin Stylejr
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Posted - 2007.07.17 13:22:00 -
[22]
Dont think it will be nerfed. Powergrid is also needed for tank. Falloff rigs are wonderfull i use them alot myself and have been for a while. Slapped one on my sleipnir and i can hit 60% outside of 27km. Puts me outside NOS and keeps me inside faction disruptor range. Avoiding NOS is a wonderfull thing :)
Close range setup able to hit from far away and STILL able to track close range. It does play into the balancing though as you do lose some tank for the luxuary.
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