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Slyton Silur
Caldari NorCorp Security Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.14 19:38:00 -
[1]
What's your opinion on the smaller T2 ships in the game? How are they in PvP? and whats their role in fleets/gangs?
I'am wondering about training for an interceptor or assault ship or something like that. I'am not sure if i like flying around in those bigger ships like BS because they feel so slow, but of course i like that they dish out high damage but. Also got the feeling that the smaller ships got a bit better survivability because of their faster speed and that they are in general harder to hit for bigger ships.
Like what kind of ships can a interceptor and a assault ship take on?
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Juha85
Beasts of Burden YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.07.14 19:43:00 -
[2]
Assault ships can take on any t2 frigate or t1 cruiser. Same for the interceptors. ---------------------------------------
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Litus Arowar
Amarr Obsidian Asylum Pure.
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Posted - 2007.07.14 19:49:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Juha85 Assault ships can take on any t2 frigate or t1 cruiser. Same for the interceptors.
this is simply not true, I'm not sure how you define "take on"
interceptors are great, they're largely used for tackling, with speed tanks... AFs can tank quite a bit, and do some decent damage, but are generally outdone by cheaper cruiser setups... they're still fun and I enjoy them, but good cruiser pilots will spank em
still, small ships have a role, and that's mobility... nothing quite like a roaming frig gang, but I'd still rather bring an inty than an AF in one of those EVE Acronym Guide |
Mitsuko Anari
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Posted - 2007.07.14 19:57:00 -
[4]
Intys for tackling, AF's role is a bit meh. They can work as anti frigate or heavy tacklers but generally there is another ship that can do that role better and for less isk. Thats the main problem with AF's.
Ceptors and Dictors are very good at there role, and with a skilled pilot I'm sure pretty much any gang would be happy to have you along if you fly one.
As for AF's easily taking on T1 cruisers, sorry, but no. Maybe taking on noobs in cruisers but no decent cruiser pilot should lose to an AF.
The cruiser has more dps, bigger tank, more cap, medium nos, drones and in allmost all cases just as much speed.
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PKlavins
Caldari Twisted Attitude Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.07.14 21:32:00 -
[5]
Well...as always T2 beats T1 if applied to the right size. An AF COULD beat a cruiser if the cruiser was a noob and the AF guy had 50mill sp. But usually, if the AF has tackler stuff and speed mod...it'd be (in terms of firepower): AF > inty > T1 frig.
I've used AF's as tacklers with MWD and web and scram, and they PWN frigs and inties, if you can pin them down. Inties can outspeed anything and so can speed tank, and usually have slightly more firepower than T1 frigs due to bonuses being at 25% due to frig lvl5.
But mostly...T2 weapons are what decides it, but that applies for any class. You put T2 autos on a rifter, and go against a Wolf with T1 autos, it'll be close.
Roles in gang...inties are very useful as scouts, or just the pod-catchers and other-quick-ship catchers. AF's are less so, but like I mentioned they can be used as heavy tacklers if fit correctly.
So...yea. Inties are useful in gangs, more so than AF's. but AF's will kick every frig to high heaven. Only a fully T2-fitted T1 frig can hope to stand up against an AF.
first -eris
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Foulis
Minmatar Chosen Path FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.14 22:21:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Juha85 Assault ships can take on any t2 frigate or t1 cruiser. Same for the interceptors.
That is a flawed statement on so many levels. If an assault ship can take on any t2 frig, that means it can take on itself. Which doesn't work because itself can take on its.... you get the point.
Second of all, HAVE YOU EVER FLOWN AN ASSAULT FRIGATE NEAR A CRUISER?
You. Die.
Unless your opponent is mining or ratting or anything non pvp, you will die.
1 web. You dead. 1 nos. You dead. Missiles. Dead...
Or maybe drones?
Guess what? DEAD! ----
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari NO WORDS IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE ARE SPELLED WITH THE NUMBER "8" IN THEM GODDAMNIT!
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.07.14 22:26:00 -
[7]
Agree with Foulis there.
The problem is, a Cruiser is damn good at dispatching frigates, as it should be. A battleship will probably have more trouble with an AF than a cruiser though.
Interceptors are very useful, so are interdictors (especially the sabre). AF's are not worth it, due to them being too expensive atm :( They'd need to cost about equal amount of isk to a cruiser and be more agile.
As it stands, they cost 3x more than a t1 cruiser and get beaten by one/are not much more agile than one, so it does not make any sense from a efficiency based standpoint to fly them.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.07.14 23:09:00 -
[8]
Smaller T2 ships? Coverts: Great. Scan probing ships, and finding exploration sites. And moving around cloaked. In all ways awesome. Interceptors: Fast. Good damage. Fragile, but can be flown to avoid things that will break you. Interdictors: also great. Bubble blowers are nice, but so is 'quite fast' and a bit more firepower than an inty. Stealth Bombers: A bit niche. Quite impressive firepower, but fat, slow and fragile. Cloaking is rather funky, but then you realise it doesn't actually help all that much. It's not that they're _bad_ exactly, it's just they're trying to do something that other ships do better. Bomb launchers are cool, but ludicrously expensive to use, so probably not worth it unless you're really sure. (20mil per shot is a lot, and it won't be very effective without a fleet to take advantage of some bombing)
Most of these will have a hard time killing a BS. (It's more or less impossible against a good BS pilot, in a well fitted BS, but there's rather a lot that don't fall into this category).
Assault ships? Mostly disappointing. In theory, they're tougher, more damaging frigates.
In practice, they trade this for being slower and easier to hit. Tanking a frigate is almost an exercise in futility - if something can kill you, e.g. with noses, drones or a web, then you're going to die regardless. If it can't, then the tank's academic anyway. Your AF, being slower than a 'normal' frigate, or interceptor, is also more likely to get caught and eaten by a larger ship.
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VJ Maverick
Caldari Maverick Specialized Services
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Posted - 2007.07.14 23:20:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ryysa
AF's are not worth it, due to them being too expensive atm :(
STFU!! They're fun to fly and come with a free ticket to the clone chamber.
Originally by: Marquis Dean As with most threads in Ships & Mods, it ended up with Ryysa yelling at everyone.
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LeMoose
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.07.14 23:34:00 -
[10]
i agree that af's mostly suck
but a pimped jaguar with snakes and gist mwd is rather sexy...
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Xoduse
Gallente Beasts of Burden YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.07.15 00:11:00 -
[11]
I agree with everyone that AFs suck...hard. Simply not worth the isk.
But interceptors are highly useful in that they can tackle to a level no other ship can match. --------------------------------- Your signature image exceeds the maximum level of awesomeness allowed. -Sahwoolo Etoophie |
Chainsaw Plankton
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Posted - 2007.07.15 01:02:00 -
[12]
after seeing some peoples set ups I'm sure you can take out some drakes with an assault frig (I've seen some bad setups). in my drake i cant break the tank of a well fit ishkur, but then again the ishkur cant break mine either.
my harpy is probably one of my best ships for dps, side note my skills are ****,
i love my inty makes a great shuttle :D can also put a warp scrambler on someone rather quickly, although a web or nos = dead.
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Foulis
Minmatar Chosen Path FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.15 06:02:00 -
[13]
I still like AFs folks. Won't be much changing that either.
I love af's because they have so much character as ships, more than any other ship I fly they each have a unique personality and style to their fighting. They cost more, they frankly suck in comparison to a cruiser, but I will continue to fly them.
Interceptors fill a strong role in pvp, but I find I enjoy flying them so much less than assault ships. Covops just aren't fun, even with bombs now.
I think that Afs need a boost of some sort, to make them a more interesting factor in combat. As it stands they are more powerfull than anything smaller than a cruiser. But I think that if they were to be made more powerfull than a cruiser it would be things greatly out of wack. As I said before, I like Afs because they are interesting in combat, I don't want them to be solo pwn mobiles.
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Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari NO WORDS IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE ARE SPELLED WITH THE NUMBER "8" IN THEM GODDAMNIT!
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Cpt Branko
Guardian Heroes
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Posted - 2007.07.15 11:28:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 15/07/2007 11:32:35 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 15/07/2007 11:28:42
Originally by: LeMoose i agree that af's mostly suck
but a pimped jaguar with snakes and gist mwd is rather sexy...
Yeees, if you like flying a 100+mil frig with a couple of billion worth of pod in it. That's very, very expensive to lose ;P
My Jaguar setups have a lose cost of about 23 mil now, what's not that bad, but still not nearly as expendable as the 2ish mil Rifter, which can still do quite a lot. The problem is, of course, that the Jaguar (the fastest, most agile AF there is) weighs 1750000kg, and the Rifter weighs 1100000kg, the Jaguar weighs about 60% more. Meaning, less speed boost, less agility, less everything. Even a Rifter with 200mm plate is much more agile and ultimately faster. Plus, unlike the other T2 ships, AFs get only three bonuses. If I were to fit an artillery setup, a Rifter would do better with the 7.5% tracking/level ;P
That's what the problem (and it would be nice if it were fixed) is with the lil buggers. I still love them, and keep flying them, and keep training up for them to improve performance, but after quite a bit of experimentation, they either die against properly fit cruisers (AC-based setups) or can't kill them / get chased off by drones (artillery setups).
Maybe I'll menage to make a kiting setup with some better skills/setup and hardwirings, it's the best thing I can think of regarding attacking cruisers - short range just doesn't work, unless it's a noob ratter in a cruiser (and you can find plenty of these) which will, of course, just die.
Edit: I need to try flying a Hawk, though, they *might* work. If they weren't so damn slow and heavy ;P
Originally by: Foulis
I love af's because they have so much character as ships, more than any other ship I fly they each have a unique personality and style to their fighting. They cost more, they frankly suck in comparison to a cruiser, but I will continue to fly them.
This is quite likely the best explanation why I (and a number of people) fly AFs ;)
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band0fdevs
Gallente Band of Dev's
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Posted - 2007.07.15 14:03:00 -
[15]
easy to train uesless against Nos drone Web in PVP
great for PVE (esp ishtar and the enyo) the ishtar as far as ECM light drones go can be useful in packs * 5afs with 25 light ECM drones against 1 or 2 BS can be fun ( slow to kill but ive seen it done)
useless tho with smartbombs going off aything else tho can be interesting
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Foulis
Minmatar Chosen Path FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.16 05:28:00 -
[16]
The pricepoint isn't the real issue I think. They are on par with the HAC/cruiser ratio. It's the fact that with a hac you are getting an effective ship.
I had hoped that with the introduction of carriers (and the carrying of ships therein) a smaller yet more powerfull ship would have a more significant place in combat.
Looking at it, I can't think of a single AF that's role can't easilly be filled by a cheaper ship.
Harpy - Cormorant can do the same thing, for less (by roughly 25 mill, expensive 150mms make it less). Hawk - Does anyone even fly these in pvp? Retribution - Punisher does it better (mid slots folks), coercer does the same with a slight weakness to cruisers. Vengeance - Don't even get me started, one of those t2 ships that sells at almost it's build cost. Jaguar - Rifter, oh my rifter. Hell, there are situations where the rifter is BETTER than a jaguar (due to the tracking bonus) which is quite frankly ****** up. Wolf - Thrasher makes a more than decent replacement, and you don't need to deal with gaping resistance holes. Enyo - The incursus is a going to replace it if you fly it in a tackly role, in a gank role the catalyst will beat it out. Ishkur - THE ONLY ONE WITHOUT A SIGNIFICANT FRIGGY/DESSY PARRALEL. But guess what? I hate flying ishkurs. Just. Hate. It. I own 2, fully rigged. They sit in empire and do NOTHING. ----
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari NO WORDS IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE ARE SPELLED WITH THE NUMBER "8" IN THEM GODDAMNIT!
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hellsknights
Phoenix Navy Chaos Incarnate.
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Posted - 2007.07.16 05:48:00 -
[17]
I would have to say that AF's are great ships, some more then others.
They just have to be used in the right way, a small group of AF's [3 or 4] can rain terror on almost any opponent. You will say any small group of ships will rain terror on most opponents. This is true but the AF gang to me is a lot more enjoyable/fun,i would even say rewarding.
Ive taken down HAC's with the above group {3 to 4} AF, let me tell you it makes for one unhappy HAC pilot. Hells
Let me liberate you of your T2 mods. T2 mods are dropping in price, because of invention?? No its because of pirates. |
Foulis
Minmatar Chosen Path FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.16 05:56:00 -
[18]
Yes, the Af's will be more entertaining, I'm not arguing that on any level. It's where I'd rather be.
A group of t1 cruisers would still be more effective.
2x rupture/thorax 2x Blackbird
Maybe replace 1 ship with a stabber.
And holy crap, you can kill any ship in the game barring capitals and INSANELY passive tanked CS. ----
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari NO WORDS IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE ARE SPELLED WITH THE NUMBER "8" IN THEM GODDAMNIT!
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.16 06:12:00 -
[19]
Originally by: LeMoose i agree that af's mostly suck
but a pimped jaguar with snakes and gist mwd is rather sexy...
Totally cool... until you meet ghetto t2 sabre -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
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