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Gank Bait
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Posted - 2007.06.20 10:42:00 -
[1]
Is this actually acceptable? I only mention this because Asking a GM will take a week in which would be 6 days too late for an answer
How fair is it when you download your patch and wait in cue to get onto the server you find out you have a war that starts in 50 minutes?
Your corp happens to have a Hi-sec POS that would require the anchoring of hardener arrays, ECM batteries, anti battleship Turrets and all that jazz
But due to the unfair advantage engineered by the wardecing corp its hard to do that when their already firing on your POS
Unable to wardec back, or Hire help for another 24 hours the fight would be over in hours anyways. And this 1 sided fighting is condoned? Unable to deploy any defenses due to the exposure to a fleet. Not to mention 10 minutes between starting an anchoring proccess and the structure actually coming online.
I honestly can not believe this kind of exploitive play is allowed.
thoughts anyone?
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Allialla
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Posted - 2007.06.20 10:47:00 -
[2]
k I dont usualy post but i cant get away frm the irony of this. You'r named Gank Bait and your complaining about being wardeced?? troll
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Nicole KholdStare
Gallente QUANT Corp. Southern Connection
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Posted - 2007.06.20 10:50:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Nicole KholdStare on 20/06/2007 10:49:28 Well it sure shows a lack of sportsmanship but I don't think it can be classified as an exploit - if only for the precedent it would create.
It sucks but not as much as your opponents...I'd say be the better man about this, take the loss and then work on payback...and you know revenge is best served cold
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Lady Trade
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Posted - 2007.06.20 10:53:00 -
[4]
how in gods name is this an exploit?
you can simply wardec them back... you just should have thought of this before patchday (like they obviously did).
i never heard of any rules that would forbid you to do things before patchday or DT for that matter so is it an exploit? most certainly not... is it forbidden anywhere? i doubt it... is it "kind" and "friendly" and "hellokittyonline'ish"? not exactly. |
Mastin Dragonfly
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.06.20 10:54:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Lady Trade how in gods name is this an exploit?
you can simply wardec them back... you just should have thought of this before patchday (like they obviously did).
i never heard of any rules that would forbid you to do things before patchday or DT for that matter so is it an exploit? most certainly not... is it forbidden anywhere? i doubt it... is it "kind" and "friendly" and "hellokittyonline'ish"? not exactly.
Well, the 24 hour warning period is there for a reason, not being able to do anything during that warning period kindda defeats the purpose of it.
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Lady Trade
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:00:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Lady Trade on 20/06/2007 11:00:13 yeah i agree with you there but since they didn't actually do anything out of the ordinary game mechanics i really don't see the problem.
if i'm fighting an austrailian corp then i might also try and gank their POS when they are at work or asleep.. and if i wardect them then i'd also try and plan it so it's a practical time for me and a ****ty one for the hostiles.
if CCP thought it was an illegal trick then they could simply pause the 24h period during DT. |
Bizz Lizz
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:03:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Bizz Lizz on 20/06/2007 11:03:09 Quite lame in my eyes to use a patch deployment as a way that the enemy doesn't get the 24 hours to prepare, especially to start attacks on pos, before the enemy can adapt to the changes in the patch. War'deccing right before a 24h patch makes the intention really obvious. The 24h are there because CCP wanted it that way and said so and not to find a way how to get around it. Yes, bad sportsman ship.
If I was GM I'd declare the war'dec invalid and say: 'Try again in 24 hours !' just to make clear that abusing such things won't be tolerated.
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jamesw
Omniscient Order
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Gank Bait Is this actually acceptable? I only mention this because Asking a GM will take a week in which would be 6 days too late for an answer
How fair is it when you download your patch and wait in cue to get onto the server you find out you have a war that starts in 50 minutes?
Your corp happens to have a Hi-sec POS that would require the anchoring of hardener arrays, ECM batteries, anti battleship Turrets and all that jazz
But due to the unfair advantage engineered by the wardecing corp its hard to do that when their already firing on your POS
Unable to wardec back, or Hire help for another 24 hours the fight would be over in hours anyways. And this 1 sided fighting is condoned? Unable to deploy any defenses due to the exposure to a fleet. Not to mention 10 minutes between starting an anchoring proccess and the structure actually coming online.
I honestly can not believe this kind of exploitive play is allowed.
thoughts anyone?
And using alts to repair the POS, knowing full well they are not being criminally flagged towards the aggressor is not exploitive?
Come on
Pot. Kettle. Black.
oh.. and post with your main(s)
--
Latest Vid: Domination! |
Gank Bait
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:12:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Lady Trade yeah i agree with you there but since they didn't actually do anything out of the ordinary game mechanics i really don't see the problem.
if CCP thought it was an illegal trick then they could simply pause the 24h period during DT.
Well the 24 hour period is there to give someone time to react is it not? Now what are the odds of me knowing it was coming if they timed it so close to downtime that I wouldn't have even seen the concord eve mail before eve closed everyone out for the patch?
I certainly would not have had the time to hire help or deploy the correct pos layout 3 seconds before downtime when the wardec was formed. Now could I?
I think thats far beyond ordinary game mechanics, thats taking a long walk around them.
with no way to shed the damage or deploy anything that could hold them off, they had a whole 24 hour head start. they only need about 12 to kill the pos.
And guess what else, due to yet another POS bug, you're not flagged to the wardecer's when you're remote shielding the pos from any other corp.
Which means a GM comes by and forces you to stop, now it would have been alot more fair if the flagging worked and you take your chances agianst the enemy while trying to remote the pos.
So now all the cards are in the attackers hands, via using a patch to run down the 24 hour warning of wardec
and a bug that means a gm will have to ban anyone trying to aid the pos.
Yup really fair.
Btw what is with the cheap insult about my name? its an alt name of course.
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GingerBeef
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: jamesw
And using alts to repair the POS, knowing full well they are not being criminally flagged towards the aggressor is not exploitive?
Come on
Pot. Kettle. Black.
oh.. and post with your main(s)
Actually no alts were used, In aiding this pos.
And where does it say there is a bug present with the pos?
Did patch notes say "oh by the way flagging for aiding a pos at war isn't working guys"?
No it did not.
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Arcane Mystery
Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:19:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Gank Bait
Originally by: Lady Trade yeah i agree with you there but since they didn't actually do anything out of the ordinary game mechanics i really don't see the problem.
if CCP thought it was an illegal trick then they could simply pause the 24h period during DT.
Well the 24 hour period is there to give someone time to react is it not? Now what are the odds of me knowing it was coming if they timed it so close to downtime that I wouldn't have even seen the concord eve mail before eve closed everyone out for the patch?
I certainly would not have had the time to hire help or deploy the correct pos layout 3 seconds before downtime when the wardec was formed. Now could I?
I think thats far beyond ordinary game mechanics, thats taking a long walk around them.
with no way to shed the damage or deploy anything that could hold them off, they had a whole 24 hour head start. they only need about 12 to kill the pos.
And guess what else, due to yet another POS bug, you're not flagged to the wardecer's when you're remote shielding the pos from any other corp.
Which means a GM comes by and forces you to stop, now it would have been alot more fair if the flagging worked and you take your chances agianst the enemy while trying to remote the pos.
So now all the cards are in the attackers hands, via using a patch to run down the 24 hour warning of wardec
and a bug that means a gm will have to ban anyone trying to aid the pos.
Yup really fair.
Btw what is with the cheap insult about my name? its an alt name of course.
Just wondering... why is it CCP's or the attackers fault that your POS had no defensive measures in the first place?
I know that before the patch there was a bug making anyone attacking a POS in high sec get concorded even though it was a wartarget POS but the patch notes has been out for a while.
You had plenty of time to arm your POS before the patch deployment. Your ignorance about security doesn't make it an exploit when someone decide to declare war on you.
Disclaimer: As usual my statement is mine and does not represent the opinion of my corporation or alliance.
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GingerBeef
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:28:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Arcane Mystery
Just wondering... why is it CCP's or the attackers fault that your POS had no defensive measures in the first place?
Once again.. because we should have had 23 hours to redeploy. instead of less than 1 hour.
CCP doesn't pause the wardec timer during patch deployment, but now there is a good reason for it to be done.
Originally by: Arcane Mystery
I know that before the patch there was a bug making anyone attacking a POS in high sec get concorded even though it was a wartarget POS but the patch notes has been out for a while.
How does that relate to people no longer getting flagged when aiding a pos? that obviously a different problem all together meaning when a GM asks you to stop its pretty much the death sentence for what you're trying to protect.
quite simple really, what was deployed was just for show, we had what was needed for defense in storage ready to deploy, we never got more then 50 minute warning so we didn't get much up.
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Raem Civrie
Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:37:00 -
[13]
Originally by: GingerBeef Stuffs
Sir, a question.
Strontium. Heard of it? It's an Ice mineral used by POS owners. ----
Fact #443: Everyone in EVE is someone's alt |
GingerBeef
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:44:00 -
[14]
got it, used it, that was quick
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Aftrime
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Posted - 2007.06.20 12:00:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Aftrime on 20/06/2007 12:01:52
Originally by: GingerBeef
Originally by: Arcane Mystery
Just wondering... why is it CCP's or the attackers fault that your POS had no defensive measures in the first place?
Once again.. because we should have had 23 hours to redeploy. instead of less than 1 hour.
Originally by: Arcane Mystery
the patch notes has been out for a while.
Let me repeat it again for you, patch notes have been out for a long time. You knew posses would become targets when the patch was deployed yet you did not act on that info.
I know I have spend a few hours befor the patches yesterday preping myself looking for the ebst buy-orders on implants and books ... And I got lucky couse people like you that don't act on the on info given to them weeks in advance.
All that is left to say is : Well done to those that wardeced GingerBeef (aliance/corp), good luck killing the first empire posses and taking over the researche industry.
You got your intell and u used it wisely (something we can't say about your opponent)
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Trak Cranker
Feral Tendency Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.20 12:01:00 -
[16]
You should not be able to circumvent the 24h warning by using a planned 20+h DT. The opposite is complete metagaming, and arguments on what the "victim" should have done or been prepared for/with, is assinine at best.
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Daedon
Minmatar Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2007.06.20 12:06:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Gank Bait
Unable to wardec back, or Hire help for another 24 hours the fight would be over in hours anyways. And this 1 sided fighting is condoned?
So wait.. Did you fail to realise that your POS could be attacked after downtime? If you didn't, there is propably no reason why you wouldn't have put enough stront in it to give you plenty of time to get help.
And what is this 'wardec back' and 'onesided fighting' you speak about? By all means, do shoot back at OMNOR. Did you actually think that you can't shoot back until you too have wardecced?
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GingerBeef
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Posted - 2007.06.20 12:08:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Aftrime Edited by: Aftrime on 20/06/2007 12:01:52
You knew posses would become targets when the patch was deployed yet you did not act on that info.
yea when a wardec is 23 hours out, you can act on it.
when its 50 minutes, you're a little cramped for time, but nice scapegoating, patch notes and all.
Yes I wonder how many empirepos's are running 100% defenses atm.
Originally by: Aftrime
Let me repeat it again for you
you said it once before? how many alts you using buddy? am I talking to one person?
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Santa Anna
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Posted - 2007.06.20 12:17:00 -
[19]
This made me chuckle.
Having a tower without stront anywhere is foolish. If nothing else it gives you some warning to decide whether it's worth defending against whoever is attacking.
Second, if you'd read the patch notes you'd know you can anchor guns after going into reinforced, allowing you to run out and drop some stront in the tower in the hour or so before fighting began if there wasn't any and go pick up whatever guns you can find to stick on there once the tower goes into reinforced. You also could have used the time to unanchor and remove any modules you wante to save (though not enough time for the tower).
Using the extended DT was clever on your attacker's part, but it's not like he used any information you didn't have access to. You should have been ready. |
Trak Cranker
Feral Tendency Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.20 12:19:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Aftrime
Let me repeat it again for you, patch notes have been out for a long time. You knew posses would become targets when the patch was deployed yet you did not act on that info.
Read this slowly: This has nothing to do with the changes that came with the patch - but a metagaming trick that was pulled on the wardec warning, using the extended DT as a cover. What was in the patch notes might have triggered the war dec - but using DT as a warning shortener has nothing to do with that.
If someone had declared war on that corp today, they would have 24h to reinforce the POSs, move stuff, fit ships - what have you. In this case they had a few hours, if that.
People scream for CCP to be fair and unbiased - and yet they applaud moves like this.
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Zyranyth
Minmatar Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.20 12:21:00 -
[21]
Hrm. You do realise that reinforced mode is there specifically to give you time to get help?
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Trak Cranker
Feral Tendency Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.20 12:25:00 -
[22]
Given the 24h they should have had, they might have been able to prepare or get help, avoiding reinforced mode in the first place?
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Trak Cranker
Feral Tendency Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.20 12:28:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Santa Anna Using the extended DT was clever on your attacker's part, but it's not like he used any information you didn't have access to. You should have been ready.
Aaah, so I am guessing the term we use for logoffski should be changed from "lame abuse of broken game mechanic" to "clever", too?
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DeODokktor
Caldari Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
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Posted - 2007.06.20 12:31:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Trak Cranker
Read this slowly: This has nothing to do with the changes that came with the patch - but a metagaming trick that was pulled on the wardec warning, using the extended DT as a cover. What was in the patch notes might have triggered the war dec - but using DT as a warning shortener has nothing to do with that.
If someone had declared war on that corp today, they would have 24h to reinforce the POSs, move stuff, fit ships - what have you. In this case they had a few hours, if that.
People scream for CCP to be fair and unbiased - and yet they applaud moves like this.
I think it all depends on the things you dont see or hear..
someone doing it just willy-nilly might be wrong in it, my pos has guns anchor'd just in case something like this happens.. I dont let the alt's do pos stuff in an alt corp while I run around doing naughty stuff in npc corps (where I cant be touched).. not saying it's like that, but your probably only hearing 50% of the story....
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Trak Cranker
Feral Tendency Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.20 12:38:00 -
[25]
Originally by: DeODokktor
I think it all depends on the things you dont see or hear..
someone doing it just willy-nilly might be wrong in it, my pos has guns anchor'd just in case something like this happens.. I dont let the alt's do pos stuff in an alt corp while I run around doing naughty stuff in npc corps (where I cant be touched).. not saying it's like that, but your probably only hearing 50% of the story...
That really only pertains to _why_ they were wardecced in the first place. And for all I know they had it coming. But that doesn't really change how a wardec should go down.
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Candyman Dyer
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Posted - 2007.06.20 12:50:00 -
[26]
Not sure on my thoughts here.
On one hand it was clever.
On the other it does seem to be an oversight by CCP. The idea that forces OUTSIDE the game can garner people IN GAME benefits is more than slightly disturbing.
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Raem Civrie
Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.20 16:10:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Gank Bait I honestly can not believe this kind of exploitive play is allowed.
OH BTW! According to GM's...
1) Deccing just before long patch hits = Slightly dodgy but not an Exploit 2) Repping your starbase in empire with neutrals = Exploit
Citing official sources, only one side exploited here. ----
Fact #443: Everyone in EVE is someone's alt |
Cecille
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Posted - 2007.06.20 16:19:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Raem Civrie
Originally by: Gank Bait I honestly can not believe this kind of exploitive play is allowed.
OH BTW! According to GM's...
1) Deccing just before long patch hits = Slightly dodgy but not an Exploit 2) Repping your starbase in empire with neutrals = Exploit
Citing official sources, only one side exploited here.
I'd escalate that to senior GMs, the purpose of the 24 hours is for war preporation. While it might seem slightly dodgy... it's an unintended use of the war dec system.
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Namingway
Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters
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Posted - 2007.06.20 16:23:00 -
[29]
This is and isn't an exploit.
The point of the 24 hours is to give you a warning and prep time, which you got, however you also didn't get it because of the 24hr downtime.
Petition and see what happens.
Originally by: CCP kieron If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.
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Nesa
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.20 16:32:00 -
[30]
Yeah actually this makes it much worse because if the flagging isn't working, and you don't get the 24 hrs to prepare, you can't even get help, because the help can't leave their corp within 24hrs to join yours due to roles.
The only thing that really could be said was the patch notes did indicate that High Sec POS's would be attackable, and that a good 36hrs stront probably should have been organised. Since you can now anchor guns and things in that time.
But it's actually one thing to use a patch's new features to attack someone, with the Extended DT as cover, then be all up in arms about neutrals remote repping POS's.... I mean, that's both sides taking advantage of the new patch, isn't it ;) Absolutely wreaks of bad sportsmanship...
Extended Downtimes mess up alot of things, you get POS's coming out of reinforced in them and all sorts of things. I bet it would be really hard to implement, but CCP really needs to wind the clock back to compensate for them. The upside is no POS's etc would use fuel, the downside is that mining ones wouldn't produce anything, no research would get done etc etc.
Kinda annoying.
With less than 24hrs to prepare I can't see how a GM can allow this and deny neutrals remote-repping. Since the neutrals are -unable- to make themselves flagged... (unless perhaps they could join a gang ? and be flagged that way ? ) If they can flag themselves and then join that removes half the problem. But then they can't shoot unless shot at first..
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