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Miss Whippy
Bloody Limeys
3
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Posted - 2012.01.04 09:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is really a question about your attitude to Micro Transactions. Personally I hate MT think it is something Eve can do without. I think it's fine for games where players have accepted the fact that you can pay more for extras, but Eve is a different animal to most other online games, and its players are here BECAUSE Eve is a different animal. For me, the trouble with MT is:
- 1 - I hate the fact that I have to pay extra to get full access to the content of a game I'm already paying for.
- 2 - It creates a diving line between the 'Haves' and the 'Have nots.' Players who can't afford the extras are alienated and like second rate customers.
- 3 - As far as I'm aware it makes no sense from an RPG point of view.
- 4 - It's would be an extra ball ache.
- 5 - It stinks of corporate greed over simply providing a great game made by people we can trust, because it's not just about milking a cash cow.
- 6 - It is completely set aside from the sandbox and the player driven economy, and so clashes with the philosophy of the game.
So, to get back to the original question. Would you prefer:
- 1- Have Aurum in the game as a means to paying extra for things like clothes, ship paint jobs, etc.
- 2 - Increase the subscription charge to cover extra content, as you understand that this new content needs payig for somehow.
- 3 - Neither as you feel that you are already entitled to new content at the price you are currently paying.
I'm personally voting 3. But if CCP explained itself well enough and convinced me that this extra content HAD to be financed somehow, then I would choose 2.
Interested to hear thoughts. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1242
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Posted - 2012.01.04 09:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
1. as i dont really care. As far as i am concerned they can sell pirate faction BPC at NeX for aur. What is an difference in shooting NPCs and buying it from NeX.. there is one, one takes a lot more time, aka game-play, other is payed for removing that game-play, person who chose the NeX lost potential game-play, i care not. |
Avensys
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
82
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Posted - 2012.01.04 09:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
3 |
Ai Shun
State War Academy Caldari State
106
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Posted - 2012.01.04 09:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
1.
That way I can choose if I want to buy fluffy crap. Under your option 2 I would be forced to pay for something I do not want, do not enjoy and so forth.
I dislike your option 3 as well, because I recognize that there is additional effort that went into this. It is a new revenue stream and I don't mind rewarding a company that provides a service I enjoy. I am already grateful that CCP provides us with free expansions, a fantastic game and the ability to play with no cost to ourselves (Although others do pay for us)
The way things are now, with Aurum as an optional extra makes it a user choice element.
I prefer choice over the politics of envy and an enforced levy to subsidize you for the needless fluff you are unwilling to pay for.
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Wacktopia
Sicarius. The Kadeshi
135
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Posted - 2012.01.04 09:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Miss Whippy wrote:
- 1- Have Aurum in the game as a means to paying extra for things like clothes, ship paint jobs, etc.
- 2 - Increase the subscription charge to cover extra content, as you understand that this new content needs payig for somehow.
- 3 - Neither as you feel that you are already entitled to new content at the price you are currently paying.
3... or 2.
I do not want to see higher subs as it is already an expensive game to play, considering that if you have a Capital you pretty-much will have an alt too.
I know that we kind of have P2W already with PLEX but I just do not like the whole Aurum / MT in EVE. I especially do not like the idea that you can buy benefits that you cannot acquire by other means (e.g The dreaded Faction-Towers-In-Nex prediction). When you die your ship gets blown to tiny, burning pieces. There's no "corpse run", no "respawn". You're dead. That's it. You just lost everything you were flying, perhaps even your body. Worse still you may have lost the space you controlled or resources you were gathering.-áTake that away and EVE is no longer EVE. TL;DR: Fix war decs. |
Miss Whippy
Bloody Limeys
3
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Posted - 2012.01.04 10:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:1.
That way I can choose if I want to buy fluffy crap. Under your option 2 I would be forced to pay for something I do not want, do not enjoy and so forth.
Surely that's the standard risk you have with a normal subscription? |
Shivus Tao
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
274
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Posted - 2012.01.04 10:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
I don't feel I need purely cosmetic additions to play the full game. If people want to shell out money in some way for them, great, but I don't really care.
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Joshua Aivoras
Tech IV Industries Pandorum Invictus
185
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Posted - 2012.01.04 10:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP actually uses the fact that you get access to all future expansions and content for free as a selling point for EVE. So CCP already said themselves it was three. |
Kietay Ayari
Rogue Elements.
314
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Posted - 2012.01.04 10:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Wacktopia wrote:
I do not want to see higher subs as it is already an expensive game to play, considering that if you have a Capital you pretty-much will have an alt too.
1 hour of RL work per character for a month of playtime is an expensive game?
I think the choice should be between option 1 and 2. Personally it doesn't matter to me which of those they pick. Though if they did pick 2 I would hope they actually spend the money on additional workforce to make the extra content and not just backlog real content and pocket the extra money.
Ferox #1 |
W1rlW1nd
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.01.04 11:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
1)
I don't give a crap about custom clothing as a paying subscriber, but if anyone else richer than me wants to give CCP extra cash to dressup and help fund further game developement then please do so.
Since custom clothing and ship paintjobs etc. have no effect whatsoever on the gameplay, it is not something that should be required inside the subscription price, it's an unnecessary OPTIONAL extra. And if not having a certain pair of shiny shoes suddenly makes you unable to justify playing a spaceship game anymore, there is something wrong with you.
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Skydell
Space Mermaids
87
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Posted - 2012.01.04 11:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:1. as i dont really care. As far as i am concerned they can sell pirate faction BPC at NeX for aur. What is an difference in shooting NPCs and buying it from NeX.. there is one, one takes a lot more time, aka game-play, other is payed for removing that game-play, person who chose the NeX lost potential game-play, i care not.
Using the support of Plex for ISK because you don't want to grind ISK. The part not mentioned is, someone grinded the ISK and made a trade for your plex. With drop loot in Aurum nobody is grinding and all drops become only as rare as the size of your wallet. If you make ISK selling Dramiel BPC's and tommorow I can buy a drami on Aurum shop, you are pretty much screwed.
Having more people in EVE or a game CCP makes is the inevitable best answer but I can never bring myself to entice people in to EVE because I know most people don't belong here. |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
189
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Posted - 2012.01.04 11:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
4. There not developing EVE as much as they should be considering what we are all paying them, given they have just invested in 2 new projects.
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1177
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Posted - 2012.01.04 11:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Miss Whippy wrote:
1- Have Aurum in the game as a means to paying extra for things like clothes, ship paint jobs, etc. Absolutely not. Especially because this function is economically-meaningless next to the Plex/isk conversion that happens already when anything extra for isk comes into the game.
Miss Whippy wrote:
2 - Increase the subscription charge to cover extra content, as you understand that this new content needs payig for somehow. If this was the only option then sure, but it isn't, and its not even the best option. CCP have shown us that Eve itself is extremely profitable as is - its limits are simply that it doesn't make quite enough profit to fund the entirety of 2 entirely different games at the same time. Scale back the expenditure on non eve stuff (as they have) and the funding problem goes away. Concentrate on improving Eve properly and more subscriptions will be gained further increasing profits (and available development budget)
Miss Whippy wrote:
3 - Neither as you feel that you are already entitled to new content at the price you are currently paying.
Well we ARE entitled to new content for the price we are paying because that is the agreement between CCP and its customer base. Our subs get us access to the game world + continuing expansion of the game client/world. If that agreement was ever to change then I suspect last autumn's unsubscription crisis would look like damp squib compared to the firestorm of fury that would mark the new eden armageddon.
But the important point here is that WE (as paying customers) should not be trying to rationalize micro transactions as a funding methodology to perniciously subdivide subscription-game content between $ haves and have nots. Its CCP's responsibility to balance their books and ensure they have appropriate budget to maintain and develop Eve Online to keep the user base enthused and numbers growing. The last few years finished in a fiasco because CCP management FAILED to understand basic business finance and overextended themselves while allowing their sole income source to be threatened by underfunding and mismanagement. The solution to this crisis is not rationalizing microtransactions and justifying a two-tier eve segregated by tawdry little $ paywalls, but to return to a climate of continual improvements for Eve Online that keep the eight year old game fresh and attractive for new and existing subscribers. This is not optional, its mandatory. Once CCP get subscriptions back on an upward trend and stop spending all the eve subs money on pointless rubbish then all these problems go away.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Errant Alaois
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.01.04 12:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
W1rlW1nd wrote:1)
I don't give a crap about custom clothing as a paying subscriber, but if anyone else richer than me wants to give CCP extra cash to dressup and help fund further game developement then please do so.
Since custom clothing and ship paintjobs etc. have no effect whatsoever on the gameplay, it is not something that should be required inside the subscription price, it's an unnecessary OPTIONAL extra. And if not having a certain pair of shiny shoes suddenly makes you unable to justify playing a spaceship game anymore, there is something wrong with you.
^^ I agree 100% ! ^^ |
Jorn Isu
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2012.01.04 12:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
1, as long as everything RMT-related can also be bought and sold for ISK (or at least the "gold ammo" or whatever).
edit: I "prefer" 3, but I don't see 1 as being a significant detriment, or hurting me any. I see 2 as hurting me, somewhat. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1182
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Posted - 2012.01.04 12:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
W1rlW1nd wrote:1)
I don't give a crap about custom clothing as a paying subscriber, but if anyone else richer than me wants to give CCP extra cash to dressup and help fund further game developement then please do so.
Since custom clothing and ship paintjobs etc. have no effect whatsoever on the gameplay, it is not something that should be required inside the subscription price, it's an unnecessary OPTIONAL extra. And if not having a certain pair of shiny shoes suddenly makes you unable to justify playing a spaceship game anymore, there is something wrong with you.
What about Engine Trails, enhanced ship models, nebulas and cyno animations? Those also have "absolutely no effect whatsoever on gameplay" - so why do you think those things should be required inside the subscription price where incarna content and ship customization is not?
By your logic (unless I am misunderstanding you) shouldn't ccp have charged us aurum to see the new graphic effects since they were not gameplay altering?
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
212
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Posted - 2012.01.04 12:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
3.
You may have missed the developer recently talking about subscription MMO's running anywhere up to a 70% profit margin without other revenue schemes like added microtransactions. CCP wouldn't have had to polute EVE with the NeX if they hadn't tried to develop two other games rather than completing and releasing one additional game at a time.
Nex (Cash Shop)-á/ Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna. Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future. |
Dane El
Daneco Inc.
41
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Posted - 2012.01.04 12:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
We really need to stop jumping to the worst possible conclusions regarding the NEX store. I'm not a fan of dressing up my avatar nobody ever sees so I've never used it but as long as it stays purely cosmetic items, I have no issue with it existing. Has there been any announcements that the NEX will carry something that actually affects gameplay or is this another thread lamenting a problem that does not yet exist?
I choose 1. Why would I want to pay for expansions or more monthly for something I'm not using? Let the fashion hounds buy their PLEX and convert it to Arum for their shiny shoes. I don't want to pay for it. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1183
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Posted - 2012.01.04 12:54:00 -
[19] - Quote
Dane El wrote:We really need to stop jumping to the worst possible conclusions regarding the NEX store. I'm not a fan of dressing up my avatar nobody ever sees so I've never used it but as long as it stays purely cosmetic items, I have no issue with it existing. Has there been any announcements that the NEX will carry something that actually affects gameplay or is this another thread lamenting a problem that does not yet exist?
I choose 1. Why would I want to pay for expansions or more monthly for something I'm not using? Let the fashion hounds buy their PLEX and convert it to Arum for their shiny shoes. I don't want to pay for it.
Question then. On the argument you've just made would it be reasonable for a market trading jita alt to argue that he or she shouldn't be paying for enhanced ship graphics, engine trails, cyno animations and nebulas on the grounds that they don't actually undock to play the game?
Their game is entirely station bound and yet you see fit to say they should pay extra to customize the avatar that is the only thing they ever see.
Why shouldn't they suggest YOU pay extra for graphic tweaks to spaceships they never see?
You see the point. Segregating content to "vanity only" simply because YOU don't want to use it is a very dangerous route to go down.
Why shouldn't hisec dwellers start arguing that they don't want to pay for development of 0.0 sovereignty mechanics that they will likely never interact with?
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4276
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Posted - 2012.01.04 13:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
I'd prefer neither (3) over paying a higher sub (2), seeing as how I don't see why paying more should be needed seeing as how they've been able to do far more for far less.
MT isn't even part of the equation unless they completely rebuild the game from scratch and take that business model into account when designing everything. If they want to invent new out-of-game services and charge for those to pad the budget, then that would work, but then we're not talking about MT any longer anywayGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
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Lexmana
Imperial Stout
159
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Posted - 2012.01.04 13:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:1. as i dont really care. As far as i am concerned they can sell pirate faction BPC at NeX for aur. What is an difference in shooting NPCs and buying it from NeX.. there is one, one takes a lot more time, aka game-play, other is payed for removing that game-play, person who chose the NeX lost potential game-play, i care not.
Showing your complete ignorance. Game-play is not primarily removed for the player that use NeX. It is removed for everybody else.
I know it is very hard to understand and you really need to think to get it. Maybe you should try that? Start with imagining EVE as a place were everything you wanted was spawned out of thin air at NeX. Would there be any miners, researchers, producers or haulers left in EvE? Would anyone fight over space in EvE? And where would mission runners sell their loot? |
Jorn Isu
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2012.01.04 13:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
edit: scratch that, I'm dumb. |
Skydell
Space Mermaids
87
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Posted - 2012.01.04 13:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:1. as i dont really care. As far as i am concerned they can sell pirate faction BPC at NeX for aur. What is an difference in shooting NPCs and buying it from NeX.. there is one, one takes a lot more time, aka game-play, other is payed for removing that game-play, person who chose the NeX lost potential game-play, i care not. Showing your complete ignorance. Game-play is not primarily removed for the player that use NeX. It is removed for everybody else. I know it is very hard to understand and you really need to think to get it. Maybe you should try that? Start with imagining EVE as a place were everything you wanted was spawned out of thin air at NeX. Would there be any miners, researchers, producers or haulers left in EvE? Would anyone fight over space in EvE? And where would mission runners sell their loot?
I made that same point back here. I just didn't feel the need to be quite as rude about it.
On the NeX and Vanity, I was more than willing to buy that stuff, had they not added all the Hillary Clinton wear and nothing else. People spazzed "no barbies in space" crap.
It's always been there. You just ignored it. I don't knoow why when money is involved it becomes something people can't ignore. |
Valei Khurelem
House Khurelem
108
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Posted - 2012.01.04 14:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
Higher subscription fees and micro-transactions are not necessary, CCP have obviously over-extended themselves by pissing away their money on two projects at once that aren't necessarily going anywhere when they only have one source of income. If they had been patient and simply built up their cash while giving people free content in EVE and working on one game, they wouldn't be in this position now.
The only reason they're trying to push these prices on us is because they're being greedy and shortsighted twats. |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
159
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Posted - 2012.01.04 14:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
Skydell wrote:Lexmana wrote:Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:1. as i dont really care. As far as i am concerned they can sell pirate faction BPC at NeX for aur. What is an difference in shooting NPCs and buying it from NeX.. there is one, one takes a lot more time, aka game-play, other is payed for removing that game-play, person who chose the NeX lost potential game-play, i care not. Showing your complete ignorance. Game-play is not primarily removed for the player that use NeX. It is removed for everybody else. I know it is very hard to understand and you really need to think to get it. Maybe you should try that? Start with imagining EVE as a place were everything you wanted was spawned out of thin air at NeX. Would there be any miners, researchers, producers or haulers left in EvE? Would anyone fight over space in EvE? And where would mission runners sell their loot? I made that same point back here. I just didn't feel the need to be quite as rude about it.On the NeX and Vanity, I was more than willing to buy that stuff, had they not added all the Hillary Clinton wear and nothing else. People spazzed "no barbies in space" crap. It's always been there. You just ignored it. I don't knoow why when money is involved it becomes something people can't ignore. I wasn't rude. I was being nice - trying to enlighten this poor chap who has been spamming the forums with his flawed ideas. He seems to have some difficulties understanding some basic principles of EVE. I tried to explain exactly what was wrong with his ideas. I even included a pedagogical imaginary experiment. Hopefully he will get it this time and stop posting crap. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1245
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Posted - 2012.01.04 14:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:1. as i dont really care. As far as i am concerned they can sell pirate faction BPC at NeX for aur. What is an difference in shooting NPCs and buying it from NeX.. there is one, one takes a lot more time, aka game-play, other is payed for removing that game-play, person who chose the NeX lost potential game-play, i care not. Showing your complete ignorance. Game-play is not primarily removed for the player that use NeX. It is removed for everybody else. I know it is very hard to understand and you really need to think to get it. Maybe you should try that? Start with imagining EVE as a place were everything you wanted was spawned out of thin air at NeX. Would there be any miners, researchers, producers or haulers left in EvE? Would anyone fight over space in EvE? And where would mission runners sell their loot?
Answer is YES . It is unbelievable but some people indeed play the game for fun, and doing those stuff because they chose to. But unfortunately that fact somehow elude most of the "rage-quiters"
Also to think that all of the players suddenly start doing what they claim to hate, is somehow interesting.. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2551
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Posted - 2012.01.04 15:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
Miss Whippy wrote:This is really a question about your attitude to Micro Transactions. Personally I hate MT think it is something Eve can do without. I think it's fine for games where players have accepted the fact that you can pay more for extras, but Eve is a different animal to most other online games, and its players are here BECAUSE Eve is a different animal. For me, the trouble with MT is:
- 1 - I hate the fact that I have to pay extra to get full access to the content of a game I'm already paying for.
- 2 - It creates a diving line between the 'Haves' and the 'Have nots.' Players who can't afford the extras are alienated and like second rate customers.
- 3 - As far as I'm aware it makes no sense from an RPG point of view.
- 4 - It's would be an extra ball ache.
- 5 - It stinks of corporate greed over simply providing a great game made by people we can trust, because it's not just about milking a cash cow.
- 6 - It is completely set aside from the sandbox and the player driven economy, and so clashes with the philosophy of the game.
So, to get back to the original question. Would you prefer:
- 1- Have Aurum in the game as a means to paying extra for things like clothes, ship paint jobs, etc.
- 2 - Increase the subscription charge to cover extra content, as you understand that this new content needs payig for somehow.
- 3 - Neither as you feel that you are already entitled to new content at the price you are currently paying.
I'm personally voting 3. But if CCP explained itself well enough and convinced me that this extra content HAD to be financed somehow, then I would choose 2. Interested to hear thoughts.
The best way for CCP to increase their revenue is to increase the number of people who play the game. The marginal cost of supporting an extra player on TQ is far less than the cost of a subscription.
Now that CCP have returned to developing parts of the game that their customers are interested in, and player counts are increasing, we can hope that subs will increase too.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Garbad theWeak
61
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Posted - 2012.01.04 15:37:00 -
[28] - Quote
I won't pay a monthly fee and aurum. The moment aurum adds anything other than pretty pony clothes everyone mocks, my 4 subs will cancel (again).
I'd prefer they didn't start down the MT road at all. It adds nothing to me, tempts the devs to paytowin, wastes resources that could have given us crucible months ago, and generated a lot of bad press. And it will be back, and we all know this and are ready to protestagain. That's not good for the game that a lot of the playerbase is simply waiting to riot because we expect them to **** up.
They should have fired the CEO for nearly killing the golden goose as it is. The entire project should be scrapped as a sunk cost, or conversely, as a way to buy back good will. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4276
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Posted - 2012.01.04 15:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:Answer is YES . GǪas we can see by the immense number of people playing on Sisi. Oh wait. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Miss Whippy
Bloody Limeys
3
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Posted - 2012.01.04 16:21:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:W1rlW1nd wrote:1)
I don't give a crap about custom clothing as a paying subscriber, but if anyone else richer than me wants to give CCP extra cash to dressup and help fund further game developement then please do so.
Since custom clothing and ship paintjobs etc. have no effect whatsoever on the gameplay, it is not something that should be required inside the subscription price, it's an unnecessary OPTIONAL extra. And if not having a certain pair of shiny shoes suddenly makes you unable to justify playing a spaceship game anymore, there is something wrong with you.
What about Engine Trails, enhanced ship models, nebulas and cyno animations? Those also have "absolutely no effect whatsoever on gameplay" - so why do you think those things should be required inside the subscription price where incarna content and ship customization is not? By your logic (unless I am misunderstanding you) shouldn't ccp have charged us aurum to see the new graphic effects since they were not gameplay altering?
This. |
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