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John Dean
The Black Fleet Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.06.11 19:20:00 -
[1]
Pretty self-explanatory dont you think?
If you guys at CCP dont stop nerfing the **** out of everything everytime some carebear cries about it, there is not going to be many ships that will be combat worthy.
Which means, loss of subscriptions due to pirates and normal PvPers not being able to fly a ship correctly.
STOP LETTING CAREBEARS RUN THE GAME AND LET PVP REIGN SUPREME!!! ---------------------------------------------- THE BLACK FLEET
Killing the galaxy one ship at a time.
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John Dean
The Black Fleet Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.06.11 19:26:00 -
[2]
Anyone else have a comment on this? ---------------------------------------------- THE BLACK FLEET
Killing the galaxy one ship at a time.
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l3lind Man
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.11 19:27:00 -
[3]
what is being nerfed..?
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John Dean
The Black Fleet Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.06.11 19:32:00 -
[4]
This time its the drake. Last time it was the myrmidon. The time before was the typhoon.
Also, they are nerfing energized adaptive nano membranes due to amarr having trouble against armor tanks.
The solution: making the EANM cpu more so its harder to fit INSTEAD OF just giving amarr ANOTHER DAMAGE TYPE.
You know CCP could give amarr something called a 'Particle Accelerator' and give amarr some kinetic damage. Or just modify ships so you can have launchers on there too for more damage types. ---------------------------------------------- THE BLACK FLEET
Killing the galaxy one ship at a time.
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Karlemgne
The Black Fleet Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.06.11 19:35:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Karlemgne on 11/06/2007 19:34:53 Yep, those nanophoons really needed the nerf bat though.
But the EANM thing, its ridiculous. Its already hard enough to fit any tank on a blaster boat, now they want to make it impossible.
There are a number of solutions here besides nerfing everyones armor tank. You an reduce the EM bonus given by an EANM, you can add another damage type to Amarr, etc, etc...
-Karl
Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free. |
Neener
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Posted - 2007.06.11 20:55:00 -
[6]
Originally by: John Dean Pretty self-explanatory dont you think?
If you guys at CCP dont stop nerfing the **** out of everything everytime some carebear cries about it, there is not going to be many ships that will be combat worthy.
Which means, loss of subscriptions due to pirates and normal PvPers not being able to fly a ship correctly.
STOP LETTING CAREBEARS RUN THE GAME AND LET PVP REIGN SUPREME!!!
You can shove that angst against carebears up your *bleep*.
Carebears dont take part in PvP, so they have absolutely zero reason to whine about your uber pvp ship. So if you want to point fingers about ship nerfs, you might start looking at your fellow pirates first.
Sometimes nerfs happen, live with it.
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John Dean
The Black Fleet Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.06.11 21:03:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Neener
Originally by: John Dean Pretty self-explanatory dont you think?
If you guys at CCP dont stop nerfing the **** out of everything everytime some carebear cries about it, there is not going to be many ships that will be combat worthy.
Which means, loss of subscriptions due to pirates and normal PvPers not being able to fly a ship correctly.
STOP LETTING CAREBEARS RUN THE GAME AND LET PVP REIGN SUPREME!!!
You can shove that angst against carebears up your *bleep*.
Carebears dont take part in PvP, so they have absolutely zero reason to whine about your uber pvp ship. So if you want to point fingers about ship nerfs, you might start looking at your fellow pirates first.
Sometimes nerfs happen, live with it.
Carebears dont have a say in nerfs.... RIIIIIIIIGHT!!!!
When they buffed scan probes, you crybaby ass carebears doing missions in high sec cried about it.
Everytime something gets buffed you filthy carebears whine and cry and raise your nerf bats high in the air until CCP caves in and nerfs the request.
So you can stuff THAT up your ASS! ---------------------------------------------- THE BLACK FLEET
Killing the galaxy one ship at a time.
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Drazin DawnTreader
The Elear
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Posted - 2007.06.11 21:17:00 -
[8]
Add a potential Increase to CPU needs of Passive Shield Regen Modules. Now my Passive tanked Jaguar and Rifter are history. Despite my Corpmates desires, I have been a strict Frigate pilot. If they take away my favorite ship setup (Passive Jaguar) I am going to be really bummed.
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dragonofearth
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Posted - 2007.06.11 21:46:00 -
[9]
I agree just saw to new nerf ideas in ideas forum. ONe i didn't read the other wanted to nerf itheron 5 saying they have to much room. Instead of nerfing one ship just bring all the other ships up to the same lvl.Also how does nerfing a ship make any sense. If one race makes a ship there not going to say." hay lets play fare and make our ship crudy so everyone else will be at the same lvl." ya right. There going to make the biggest and badest ship they can so they can win. there not going to make the playing field even.
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madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.06.11 22:02:00 -
[10]
im pretty sure it arent the carebears that whined about the drake. Its the amarr, to be specific: the armageddon that couldnt break a drakes tank. _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.11 22:06:00 -
[11]
I fly a Drake all the time. Passively. It's way overpowered.
Because I said so...
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Neener
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Posted - 2007.06.11 22:18:00 -
[12]
Originally by: John Dean Carebears dont have a say in nerfs.... RIIIIIIIIGHT!!!!
When they buffed scan probes, you crybaby ass carebears doing missions in high sec cried about it.
Everytime something gets buffed you filthy carebears whine and cry and raise your nerf bats high in the air until CCP caves in and nerfs the request.
So you can stuff THAT up your ASS!
Youre obviously wee bit too angry to even think straight
What exactly scan probes have to do with high sec mission running, lol.
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Kerik Igan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.11 22:23:00 -
[13]
also note that the caldari have horrible dps all around, cant tank worth &**)(& and their ships are worthless in pvp except as vape bait for pirates.
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w33b0b
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Posted - 2007.06.11 22:35:00 -
[14]
One thing the origional poster got right Is that CCP is nerfing the game ship by ship I fly Drake as well as other ships Drake was good but so are other ships it wasn't totally overpowered as some suggest yes it had a good shield but at the expense of taking most of your slots and that's all it had Passive shield was a good anti Nos setup now passive shield has been nerfed Nos will need a nerf When Nos has been nerfed then other stuff that Nos balances will need nerfed. And so it goes on In the name of balance all ships will end up balanced but nothing will be worth playing cos they'll all be so nerfed
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Drazin DawnTreader
The Elear
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Posted - 2007.06.11 22:45:00 -
[15]
Originally by: murder one I fly a Drake all the time. Passively. It's way overpowered.
<scratches head>
Lets see here... Drake Firepower: 350-400DPS Drake Tank: 800-1300DPS (passive, omni) Drake Ewar: None Drake Speed: 180m/s
Myrmidon Firepower: 700-800DPS Myrmidon Tank: 500-700DPS (dual rep, omni) Myrmidon Ewar: Web + Scramble Myrmidon Speed: 388m/s (AB II)
So a Myrms Tank is quite good with great DPS. Has Ewar capability and Speed Capability. Downside: Cap dependent Drakes Tank is exceptional with no Cap dependence. Downside: Low DPS, No Ewar capability, No Speed Capability.
Looks balanced to me...
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Karlemgne
The Black Fleet Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.06.11 22:59:00 -
[16]
Originally by: murder one I fly a Drake all the time. Passively. It's way overpowered.
Originally by: murder one I fly a Drake all the time. Passively. It's way overpowered.
I actually agree with this. Some of the ship balancing I'm okay with, its the trying to balance racial types by nerfing a whole tank type that I'm really on about recently.
-Karlemgne
Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free. |
John Dean
The Black Fleet Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.06.11 23:00:00 -
[17]
Edited by: John Dean on 11/06/2007 23:04:50 Edited by: John Dean on 11/06/2007 23:03:39
Originally by: Neener
Originally by: John Dean Carebears dont have a say in nerfs.... RIIIIIIIIGHT!!!!
When they buffed scan probes, you crybaby ass carebears doing missions in high sec cried about it.
Everytime something gets buffed you filthy carebears whine and cry and raise your nerf bats high in the air until CCP caves in and nerfs the request.
So you can stuff THAT up your ASS!
Youre obviously wee bit too angry to even think straight
What exactly scan probes have to do with high sec mission running, lol.
Well lets see, um maybe it was all the crying you filthy carebears were doing about people scanning out your g@y missions and stealing the objective item necessary for a certain "fetch me this" mission, making it impossible to finish the mission. I know, I've done it.
So once again, shut your filthy carebear mouth. ---------------------------------------------- THE BLACK FLEET
Killing the galaxy one ship at a time.
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Karlemgne
The Black Fleet Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.06.11 23:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: w33b0b One thing the origional poster got right Is that CCP is nerfing the game ship by ship I fly Drake as well as other ships Drake was good but so are other ships it wasn't totally overpowered as some suggest yes it had a good shield but at the expense of taking most of your slots and that's all it had Passive shield was a good anti Nos setup now passive shield has been nerfed Nos will need a nerf When Nos has been nerfed then other stuff that Nos balances will need nerfed. And so it goes on In the name of balance all ships will end up balanced but nothing will be worth playing cos they'll all be so nerfed
NOS is wonderful as is, and never should be nerfed. Okaythnxsbye.
-Karlemgne
Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free. |
Karlemgne
The Black Fleet Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.06.11 23:02:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Drazin DawnTreader Edited by: Drazin DawnTreader on 11/06/2007 22:46:00
Originally by: murder one I fly a Drake all the time. Passively. It's way overpowered.
<scratches head>
Lets see here... Drake Firepower: 350-400DPS Drake Tank: 800-1300DPS (passive, omni) Drake Ewar: None Drake Speed: 180m/s
Myrmidon Firepower: 700-800DPS Myrmidon Tank: 500-700DPS (dual rep, omni) Myrmidon Ewar: Web + Scramble Myrmidon Speed: 388m/s (AB II) or 1,031m/s (MWD II)
So a Myrms Tank is quite good with great DPS. Has Ewar capability and Speed Capability. Downside: Cap dependent Drakes Tank is exceptional with no Cap dependence. Downside: Low DPS, No Ewar capability, No Speed Capability.
Looks balanced to me...
I still don't think that a Battlecruiser...
should be able to tank capital ships.
Sorry.
-Karlemgne
Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free. |
Neener
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Posted - 2007.06.11 23:03:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Neener on 11/06/2007 23:03:51
Originally by: Drazin DawnTreader
<scratches head>
Lets see here... Drake Firepower: 350-400DPS
Dunno where you got that 350-400 dps though.
Using damage calc found in eve-o missile guide, drake dps with 7 (arbalest) heavy launchers is around 200 (against slow moving battleship with zero resists).
If kinetic missiles are used, then its bit more.
If target is moving and has lower sig radius than battleship, its lot less.
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John Dean
The Black Fleet Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.06.11 23:04:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Drazin DawnTreader Edited by: Drazin DawnTreader on 11/06/2007 22:46:00
Originally by: murder one I fly a Drake all the time. Passively. It's way overpowered.
<scratches head>
Lets see here... Drake Firepower: 350-400DPS Drake Tank: 800-1300DPS (passive, omni) Drake Ewar: None Drake Speed: 180m/s
Myrmidon Firepower: 700-800DPS Myrmidon Tank: 500-700DPS (dual rep, omni) Myrmidon Ewar: Web + Scramble Myrmidon Speed: 388m/s (AB II) or 1,031m/s (MWD II)
So a Myrms Tank is quite good with great DPS. Has Ewar capability and Speed Capability. Downside: Cap dependent Drakes Tank is exceptional with no Cap dependence. Downside: Low DPS, No Ewar capability, No Speed Capability.
Looks balanced to me...
A-F**KING-MEN!!!!! ---------------------------------------------- THE BLACK FLEET
Killing the galaxy one ship at a time.
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Rule2k
Fate.
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Posted - 2007.06.11 23:06:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Drazin DawnTreader Edited by: Drazin DawnTreader on 11/06/2007 22:46:00
Originally by: murder one I fly a Drake all the time. Passively. It's way overpowered.
<scratches head>
Lets see here... Drake Firepower: 350-400DPS Drake Tank: 800-1300DPS (passive, omni) Drake Ewar: None Drake Speed: 180m/s
Myrmidon Firepower: 700-800DPS Myrmidon Tank: 500-700DPS (dual rep, omni) Myrmidon Ewar: Web + Scramble Myrmidon Speed: 388m/s (AB II) or 1,031m/s (MWD II)
So a Myrms Tank is quite good with great DPS. Has Ewar capability and Speed Capability. Downside: Cap dependent Drakes Tank is exceptional with no Cap dependence. Downside: Low DPS, No Ewar capability, No Speed Capability.
Looks balanced to me...
and what happens when the Myrms cap runs dry?
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John Dean
The Black Fleet Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.06.11 23:08:00 -
[23]
Edited by: John Dean on 11/06/2007 23:07:26
Quote: and what happens when the Myrms cap runs dry?
Well, in the case of a 1v1, the myrm warps out due to the lack of drake Ewar ---------------------------------------------- THE BLACK FLEET
Killing the galaxy one ship at a time.
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Karlemgne
The Black Fleet Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.06.11 23:12:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Rule2k
Originally by: Drazin DawnTreader Edited by: Drazin DawnTreader on 11/06/2007 22:46:00
Originally by: murder one I fly a Drake all the time. Passively. It's way overpowered.
<scratches head>
Lets see here... Drake Firepower: 350-400DPS Drake Tank: 800-1300DPS (passive, omni) Drake Ewar: None Drake Speed: 180m/s
Myrmidon Firepower: 700-800DPS Myrmidon Tank: 500-700DPS (dual rep, omni) Myrmidon Ewar: Web + Scramble Myrmidon Speed: 388m/s (AB II) or 1,031m/s (MWD II)
So a Myrms Tank is quite good with great DPS. Has Ewar capability and Speed Capability. Downside: Cap dependent Drakes Tank is exceptional with no Cap dependence. Downside: Low DPS, No Ewar capability, No Speed Capability.
Looks balanced to me...
and what happens when the Myrms cap runs dry?
Not to disagree with John here, but I agree. I don't think that its "balanced" when a Myrmidon, no matter how its fit, has to warp out of a fight with Drake. That's its choice, it can't win, just must warp away.
-Karl
Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free. |
Drazin DawnTreader
The Elear
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Posted - 2007.06.11 23:25:00 -
[25]
What happens when a Myrm's tank runs dry? Depends on who he is fighting.
If he is fighting a strong passive tank with low DPS and no Ewar and he can't break the tank before his cap breaks, he warps off. If he is too stupid to warp off before he is completely out of cap, he deserves to die.
If he is fighting an Active tank ship, hopefully his DPS breaks the enemy tank and pops it before he runs out of cap booster charges. The Setup I am basing my numbers off of can run all of its modules minus the MWD/AB for 110 seconds using only 5 cap booster 200 charges. That includes both reppers. Carry more charges, fight longer.
Almost 2 minutes of cap with only 5 booster charges is a long time for 700+ DPS to chew on someone.
At the core of this discussion, there is Diversity. That is what makes EvE what it is. Having so many options to set up your ship for so many different roles is why I like EvE. Nerf Diversity - Kill EvE online.
Is Passive tanking overpowered? No. Is a Passive tank overpowered? Yes. Know the difference?
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Drazin DawnTreader
The Elear
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Posted - 2007.06.11 23:35:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Karlemgne
Not to disagree with John here, but I agree. I don't think that its "balanced" when a Myrmidon, no matter how its fit, has to warp out of a fight with Drake. That's its choice, it can't win, just must warp away.
-Karl
So its fair that a drake, set up to active shield tank with close range HAM's still can't break a Myrmidon's Tank and can't warp away?
Think about it for awhile. There is a HUGE tradeoff for being hard to kill.
So is it unfair that my Drake -can't- kill, well... pretty much anyone, but a Myrmidon can? Even my Jaguar can Tank my Drake.
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Shadowraven213
Caldari Madison Industrial Co. Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.12 00:48:00 -
[27]
Originally by: John Dean Pretty self-explanatory dont you think?
If you guys at CCP dont stop nerfing the **** out of everything everytime some carebear cries about it, there is not going to be many ships that will be combat worthy.
Which means, loss of subscriptions due to pirates and normal PvPers not being able to fly a ship correctly.
STOP LETTING CAREBEARS RUN THE GAME AND LET PVP REIGN SUPREME!!!
i totally agree BOOST ALL SHIPS CCP!! then you will have to boost their HP more as they get even more powerful!!
dont you just love the !!
infact you could just scrap the whole "balance" thing and make every ship that i pilot totally unkillable and devastateing to anything else that floats in space so i will never again have to think when i PvP
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Drazin DawnTreader
The Elear
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Posted - 2007.06.12 02:17:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Neener Edited by: Neener on 11/06/2007 23:03:51
Originally by: Drazin DawnTreader
<scratches head>
Lets see here... Drake Firepower: 350-400DPS
Dunno where you got that 350-400 dps though.
Using damage calc found in eve-o missile guide, drake dps with 7 (arbalest) heavy launchers is around 200 (against slow moving battleship with zero resists).
If kinetic missiles are used, then its bit more.
If target is moving and has lower sig radius than battleship, its lot less.
Thats Raw DPS. T2 Heavy Launchers - Max skills With Drones. My low tank,3 BCU fit nets me 309dmg per missile @ 6.83sec RoF. My High tank, 1 BCU fit only gets me 263dmg per missile @ 8.00sec RoF. Factor in T2 drones and possibly T2 missiles and a High tank Drake is capable of 350-400 Raw DPS.
But this isn't really about drakes. I'm more worried about my Jaguar and Rifter not being able to fit a Passive shield tank if CCP raises the CPU needs of Passive shield modules.
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Callthetruth
Caldari Logical Logtistics
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Posted - 2007.06.12 02:32:00 -
[29]
CCP will make changes and balances, its to encourage small gangs with supporting ships complimenting each other it discourages solo PVP a bit or target selection.
Overall its pretty balanaced
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John Dean
The Black Fleet Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.06.12 02:39:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Drazin DawnTreader What happens when a Myrm's tank runs dry? Depends on who he is fighting.
If he is fighting a strong passive tank with low DPS and no Ewar and he can't break the tank before his cap breaks, he warps off. If he is too stupid to warp off before he is completely out of cap, he deserves to die.
If he is fighting an Active tank ship, hopefully his DPS breaks the enemy tank and pops it before he runs out of cap booster charges. The Setup I am basing my numbers off of can run all of its modules minus the MWD/AB for 110 seconds using only 5 cap booster 200 charges. That includes both reppers. Carry more charges, fight longer.
Almost 2 minutes of cap with only 5 booster charges is a long time for 700+ DPS to chew on someone.
At the core of this discussion, there is Diversity. That is what makes EvE what it is. Having so many options to set up your ship for so many different roles is why I like EvE. Nerf Diversity - Kill EvE online.
Is Passive tanking overpowered? No. Is a Passive tank overpowered? Yes. Know the difference?
Enlighten us please. ---------------------------------------------- THE BLACK FLEET
Killing the galaxy one ship at a time.
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