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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
146
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Posted - 2012.01.03 15:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello and a happy new year!
We are getting back to work and this is high time to evaluate how the Player Owned Customs Office feature worked out and potentially address any rough edges. Needless to say, we have been monitoring the developments for any major issues, and several defects were fixed during the past month. With this thread we want to collect your impressions and learn how you are using the feature and how you believe it has impacted EVE.
Here are a few questions if you need help to get started. Please remember that constructive feedback is more likely to lead anywhere.
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
Best regards CCP Omen Game Designer Team Pi |
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Velicitia
Open Designs
426
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Posted - 2012.01.03 15:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
1. Interbus hates us ... so we blew up their offices 2. I've seen a little more action, usually the "really, why are they ALWAYS here when i'm in a hauler" type action though. 3. Depends on what we're defining "small to mid size" as. But, I think so. 4. I think it's about the same. It'll take a little more time (and possibly the fuel block switchover) to really tell. 5. Nothing "Player Owned" yet (have just shot Interbus so far).
edit -- first! |
Xearal
SOL Industries Black Thorne Alliance
226
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Posted - 2012.01.03 15:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
I have not managed one(yet), but afaik, it's only possible to use corporate standings to determine someone's tax level. Maybe individual standings or something should be added as well, as PI is done by individuals not corporations.
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
I've seen/heard quite a bit of action regarding the new POCO's. My personal main concern is that they don't have any basic defenses of their own, so there's nothing there to stop the initial attack.
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
TBH, I think there's a big danger here of large blobs taking over 'prime' systems where there's good planets in low sec or npc space and making it impossible for the little people to do their PI properly. Also, referring to 2, it means that setting up their own POCO is raising a big flag asking to be blobbed.
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
More relevant. As more and more of the PI infrastructure is given to player control, the impact of these goods becomes more apparant. More uses for PI products would be nice though. As well as other forms of PI. For more on this, I would highly recommend reading the PI Proposal in the assembly hall, if you haven't already done so.
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
Not a very exciting one, but I was in a low sec system somewhere, and I saw a big alliance taking down an interbus POCO to set up their own, and asked howmuch they'd charge a smalltimer like me for use of their POCO. They were quite friendly, and while I had no intention of setting up PI on that planet, somethign I told them on the outset, a good deal was made anyway.
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Also Aswell
Apple Industries Inc. Surely You're Joking
4
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Posted - 2012.01.03 16:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Well the biggest problem with POCOs isn't a POCO problem. It's the stupid storage silo mechanics. 700MW of power? For what? And it stores a pitiful 5000m3 of material.
So the end result is nobody uses them. Nobody has 700MW free so instead of buffering excess P0 material in a silo we're instead shooting it up to the POCO (and paying a tax) and then bringing it back down (and paying the tax again). If anything, use another launchpad and at least double the storage space.
This is really the biggest limitation I have with PI right now. Storage. Using the POCO as a buffer is a workaround for another problem entirely.
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Halin Damal
Vexillum Muto
5
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Posted - 2012.01.03 16:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible? This doesn't really concern me (yet), but I heard some corporations that want to monitor the PI activity of their POCO's of their members are forced to set the tax-rate to 0.1%. I think they should be able to do this without asking any tax at all.
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature? Yes, I think this change is in favor PvP seeking pilots, but not necessarily a bonus feature for Industrial players. Again it doesn't really affect me, so I am not too concerned.
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations? Definitely yes
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE? Yes, the highseccers just turn over a bit less ISK then before, the rest has an opportunity to gain more ISK more taking more risk.
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office? Sorry, nothing comes to mind.
Not directly related to questions above. I think there is still a lot of opportunities to explore regarding PI. Today it is just a click-fest to generate some passive income. Some actions should become simpeler though, having to go through each processor and repeat the same actions to change the production is really daft. Being able to group processors should be a major improvement (in my eyes this would be a quick-win for CCP). Also when I build an extractor, create a link to a structure that has a container and install an extraction program, why do I still need to manually route the P0 product to the only obvious outlet?
I would love some more actions to be done to increase my PI production. Just to think outside the box for a moment, wouldn't it be fantastic to have a transport tycoon type of mini-game on planets that affect the PI production? If Dust 514 is doable, I am sure an TT clone would be doable aswell.
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Humphreys Stig
State War Academy Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.01.03 16:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
1. Where do I start.....
No better place than with planetary launches. Currently PI launches allow for 500m3 of PI to be launched. This I say needs to be altered. Not to some silly level m3 but to a level which are actually X times the volume of items produced. E.G. P2, 3 & 4 items are 1.5, 6 & 100m3 respectively. 500m3 is not a multipal of any PI item. 150, 300, 600, 900, 1200m3 are and seem to make more sense.
Taxes. With all the whining and resulting CCP HTFU responses I was somewhat intersted in jumping into PI to see what PI was actually like. That was an eye opener.The current NPC tax levels are not really an enticement for High Sec Bears to venture into low sec as I'm sure CCP wanted. (Though I could be proved wrong on this). Considering that during my low sec roams looking for suitable PI oppertunities the standard POCO tax rate appears to be 12%
2. I've been in low sec quite a bit over the Christmas and very rarely seen a POCO in reinforcement. Then again there seems to be very few of them outside of 0.1 sec systems.
3. Probably. However more oppertunity does not mean more people will try it. CCP we need more enticements to enter into PI.
4. Less. And the reasoning. PI on the planet (currently) is a single person activity. However it takes in my opinion several people to be able to destroy an interbus and replace with a POCO. You could do it solo if you had several hours to spare. I'm sure some people have managed to destroy them solo but as it stands there is no real enticement to kill them unless you want to place a POCO of your own. Now if they were to drop items/loot/BPC's then that would be a different story.
5. No stories and I've not been enticed to start PI even though the forum tears and trolls were wonderful.
God I hate forum trolls. |
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
168
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Posted - 2012.01.03 16:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:Hello and a happy new year! 1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
Inability to pay taxes from corporate wallet. Lots of fiddling with ISK when doing PI for a corporation. Need tickbox somewhere to use corp wallet...
Would also like the tax system to use a moving average of some sort for tax calculations. While the quick hack fix of using fixed market-related values for tax calculations was a vast improvement over the loltaxes of pre-Crucible, the system really needs to automatically adjust over time to actual market prices. Naturally use long enough timescales and averages so your average little market manipulation doesn't affect taxes, but at least a quarterly tax modification is very much needed. And yeah, it should be automated :)
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Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
73
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Posted - 2012.01.03 16:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
only problem is the time it takes to replace a interbus POCO for one of our own, we have to kill hundreds in our space! we want to replace them all, but 15M hitpoints each doesn't help!
Allow us to petition their removal from space we have sov (0.0). a director makes a petion, at downtime all Interbus pocos petitioned are removed and we then go and anchor new ones. everybody is happy.
or change the hitpoints of a interbus Poco for something smaller like 2M or something... this is becaming a pain in the ass, for more than one month we are kiling interbus POCOS, not even half is done in our sov space,
Allow us to change characters of the same account without the need to logout and put the password again. |
Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
73
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Posted - 2012.01.03 16:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
a couple more things:
- sometimes we warp to them and get stuck and can't warp out, what is happening? - In the custom office window, If do not want to export some products because the tax set is to high (like 100%), can you provide a way to destroy those products, since I need space down in the planet and exporting them out is the only option to clear them at this moment... thanks Allow us to change characters of the same account without the need to logout and put the password again. |
pmchem
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
185
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Posted - 2012.01.03 16:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote: 1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
1. Something broken: Interbus COs were a late design addition, presented as a cushion so that the changeover to POCOs would not have severe backlash or market effects - they should be removed by CCP in lowsec/WH/nullsec now that people understand POCOs and gantries are widely available. Their continued existence negatively affects player-driven POCO gameplay.
Something terrible: POCOs may sit around untouched for months unless shot at, and it's impossible to tell at a glance if anyone still uses them (unlike POS, which must be fueled). Maybe there should be a way to tell how frequently an Interbus CO or POCO has imports/exports? This would help pvp scouting (active places for fights), industry scouting (this POCO is abandoned, let's kill it and take it over), and user scouting (hey this place is not used much, it probably isn't depleted. or the inverse). I'd say add a form of upkeep by making POCOs use energon cubes, but that adds a layer of effort which is unfun.
You could also make POCO shield resists related to, say, the amount of taxes collected? That'd provide another way to differentiate POCOs on activity, and make more valuable/capitalistic ones harder to kill.
2. Has the amount of PVP changed? Yeah, I've heard of fights over these, and scouted several nullsec targets myself.
3. I'm not involved with mid-size corps, but I have seen POCOs owned by them, so I'd guess yes.
4. Definitely more relevant. PI is now providing noticeable alliance income for GSF, so any turf-holding group should be examining them as a way to pay for corp/alliance programs. The new taxes also make efficient PI installation planning more important, and further differentiate highsec vs POCO optimal setups. |
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Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
329
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Posted - 2012.01.03 17:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
Nothing is really so broken that it needs urgent fixing, but some minor stuff. First, as mentioned, not using the corp to char standings is annoying. Many PI alts are in NPC corp.
Also, POCO income is still a bit too low compared to their cost, so many people don't really try to defend theirs. Increasing taxes further would hurt the economy too much, and lowering gantry cost would make them less likely to be defended. So I think you should encourage more colonies per planet instead, via the depletion/abundance mechanics.
Finally, I feel the level of commitment it takes to attack a POCO in lowsec should be raised somehow. Right now it's too easy to attack in "invulnerable" ships, such as bombers or stabbed BS, and just cloak/run away at the first sign of defenders. More HP is not the answer, but perhaps some automated locking/tackle from the POCO would help.
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
Definitely yes. Small engagements, with people unrelated to the POCO showing up. Even the Interbus COs have created some fun situations.
Making the timer visible system-wide was a stroke of genius So was making them so easy to repair to reset the timer.
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
Yes. Plenty of lowsec POCOs are owned by small/medium corporations. I have even helped defend them from larger entities successfully. Their low cost/low value actually helps even out the odds.
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
I don't think this has changed much, except by raising awareness among non-PIers.
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
I don't know. For example, this one, about how a fight over a handful of POCOs escalated to a 60 man fight with multiple carriers involved. In a region where 15 man gangs are a rare sight.
The time we interrupted a bomber gang shooting an Interbus CO, then finished it off ourselves and anchored our own? Or the carrier that was delegating fighters to his POCO-bashing gang from a safespot and got caught and killed? Or the 0.0 alliance that decided to hit our POCO in stabbed ravens and was chased off by a gang of t1 cruisers.
But the sweetest has to be this one. One of the most outspoken critics of POCOs (from the devblog thread), recently showed up in my corp wallet. As "export duty from XXXX". What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
329
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Posted - 2012.01.03 17:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
Maybe CCP can check how much PI is being done through Interbus offices at the moment? If the number is low enough, removing them would make sense.
And if it's mostly exports with few imports, a more permanent solution of bumping up CC and launch capacity to 1.5-2k m3 would keep harvesting without a POCO viable. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
gfldex
252
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Posted - 2012.01.03 17:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
1) Taxes are fine. There used to be a tax nobody cared about but couldn't do anything about either. Now you need and can care about taxes. I didn't do PI before the change was first announced because prices where driven down by fellow players that skilled up 8 chars on 3 accounts to farm planets. That has changed. Nice income is nice. :)
2) A lot. Plenty of carriers where ganked by a certain group of players. Don't ask me why you would want to have a carrier sitting next to a Interbus CO.
3) It does. You can get your tax down to 0 and gain a big advantage if you do reactions. Yet it comes with the risk to lose those COs and thus your profits. Reactions where basically forced out of Perimeter into some lowsec or 0.0 systems. You don't really want to do that in a one-man-army-corp.
4) That heavyly depends where you are coming from. For one-man-corps it may have lost relevance. For well organised corps it for sure matters more nowadays. It's a true asset because you gain something economically while at the same time have to care about on the warfare level. Yet you don't put more boring stress on your worker bees ... err directors.
5) I don't do awesome, I do profits.
As a side node I agree with the notion that storage on planets can be a problem. If you are just a paying customer you may end up not being able to retrieve your good from the planet (that little rocket is a joke). It can take a few days to sort the situation. In that time you have to pause production simply because you have no way to stash stuff away for a few days. Makes you wonder what kind of engineer designed those structures.
Edit: Don't forget to iterate on the PI mechanics. Small corps got a boost but their players can't really work together to build planetary networks. A planet market is if great need and provides another opportunity to glue a structure next to a planet. Another thing to fight over and to gain taxes from for small or not so small corps. Merry crisis and a happy new fear! |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
207
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Posted - 2012.01.03 17:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
Linking this thread as well, improved notifications customs offices.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=574341 CCP Nullarbor | Exotic Dancer |
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pmchem
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
185
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Posted - 2012.01.03 17:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jack Dant wrote: Also, POCO income is still a bit too low compared to their cost, so many people don't really try to defend theirs. Increasing taxes further would hurt the economy too much, and lowering gantry cost would make them less likely to be defended. So I think you should encourage more colonies per planet instead, via the depletion/abundance mechanics.
I like almost all of your post, but would disagree with the idea that raising taxes further would hurt the economy (I bet you're not surprised!). PI prices in Jita indicate that a large part of the pre-patch bubble was speculation and POS fuel stockpiling for cube creation, and that bubble has largely receded now. Tax fearmongerers have been proven totally wrong. That means there is plenty of room for another increase of the tax reference values, which would further encourage POCO placement and differentiate highsec from riskier places. Something like an "isk upkeep" for POCOs, where the "npc workers on POCOs" claim a PLEX's worth of isk / month in "salary" (this could be done via a ccp-set npc tax on imports/exports), would be a way to put an isk sink on the non-highsec POCOs (if desired).
Nice stories at the end, btw. |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
187
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Posted - 2012.01.03 17:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
Don't think there has really been enough time for everything to settle into a pattern yet.
What I would say is broken (well perhaps not broken but against the grain at least) is a couple of things.
1. You just handed on a gold plater null sec alliances a bonus 10% on there already larger share of PI profit.
2. Your system seems to try and encourage people to hold and defend property in low sec, something no-one is really going to undertake as the rest of the tools a null sec alliance have for these purposes aren't available. Discouraging people from taking that 'risk it for a biscuit route' and basically doing the oppossite of what you seem to have intended.
3. The overall effect therefore was a nerf to high sec ops and a buff for the already phenominally rich null sec alliances, plus added another complication for those who want to dip there toe in riskier ventures.
All in all a nice idea, when implemented doing almost the complete opposite of what was intended, pretty much par for the course really.
Just the way I see things of course your milage may vary.
/edit- thanks for asking though
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Camios
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
40
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Posted - 2012.01.03 17:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
No
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
In lowsec I know there have been some engagements around them, I have seen many reinforcements timers. I can't say if POCOs are reinforced just to get a fight or to really get planets; I would like to compare the amount of PVP around starbases with the amount of PVP around POCOs. The POCOs are something new. A new "warp to when **** is the fan", and a thing you place it a 0 km on planet warpins so that it decloaks people. People are going to camp them with bubbles in critical areas of 0.0.
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
I like the idea of having something "public", and that you can profit from it giving access to strangers; I think this has created new opportunities (it's a bit like putting up a POS, but with reduces hassle and benefits). I think there should be more "stuff" in EVE with private ownership & public usage (the POPU concept).
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
In EVE Economy I don't think that PI has become more relevant. It is good that the PI system has become now more complex and deep, but this change has possibly reduced the people that run PI and the increase in POS components probably has caused some POSes to be shut down (thus marginally reducing the economical relevance of PI in EVE).
In EVE balance of power PI is a great way to make money because it's passive income. Like moons, but on a personal level, and this means that in the balance of power it does not count very much. Until the moment there will be more involvement in PI on a corporate and alliance level, PI will be pretty marginal in the balance of power. POCOs do something in this direction, though.
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
No awesome stories. But one story.
Back in november I contacted all the people who shared a planet with me and asked them what were we going to do with the upcoming release of POCOs. They were mainly from Russia. I crafted a fine evemail in my finest English only to get a response like "I didn't understand anything". I contacted their ceo, who said "no problem, we'll take care of it, we have the firepower for taking the Interbus down". The interbus COs are still there after a month. |
MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
68
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Posted - 2012.01.03 18:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible? -What is happening makes sense to me and seems viable so far. There are a lot of calls in here to remove the Interbus offices by CCP's hand but I think that should be avoided and let nature take its course instead. Eventually they will all fall or be worthless.
-There needs to be a way of deleting materials from the storage silos on the planet rather than launching them. Charge a small environmental impact fee if you need to, but give us a way to address the messes that sometimes happen.
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature? -Personally no. Sneaking around as a hauler is still sneaking around as a hauler. Until some sort of auxiliary cruiser is added to the game, I don't think there is going to be much change, at least in the small arena.
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations? -Not really. PI is a solo event with other players joining for a short period to set up the POCO, after that it is back to being a solo event. Except for a few specific planets in areas, I don't know how many people are going to invest in any sort of large scale warfare with a small group instead of just moving over a little (there are as many planets as players logged in).
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE? -It is still relevant, but it is much more of a later game mechanic than it was originally once you include POCOs. Then again, even with the higher taxes you still make money in high-sec.
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office? -Nope. Yes, I only have a Vigil, I've had a bad bit of luck Ok? |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
329
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Posted - 2012.01.03 18:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
pmchem wrote:I like almost all of your post, but would disagree with the idea that raising taxes further would hurt the economy (I bet you're not surprised!). PI prices in Jita indicate that a large part of the pre-patch bubble was speculation and POS fuel stockpiling for cube creation, and that bubble has largely receded now. Tax fearmongerers have been proven totally wrong. That means there is plenty of room for another increase of the tax reference values, which would further encourage POCO placement and differentiate highsec from riskier places. I don't know how much goonswarm is making per planet, but the numbers I'm seeing are around 1 to 4 mil/day for actively used planets (with a couple total failures). To really increase the income to the point where people really form up to defend, you'd have to double or triple that income. I hope you'd agree, raising the taxes that much would be traumatic.
Quote:Something like an "isk upkeep" for POCOs, where the "npc workers on POCOs" claim a PLEX's worth of isk / month in "salary" (this could be done via a ccp-set npc tax on imports/exports), would be a way to put an isk sink on the non-highsec POCOs (if desired). As a tax on top of the tax, could work. But with a fixed amount, it would end badly What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate
5
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Posted - 2012.01.03 18:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
You need the ability to select which corp wallet the taxes are paid into.
I would honestly like to remove the ability for capitals to engage a POCO in lowsec. It's really hard to defend the initial reinforcement (ie get a fight) when a pair of dreads can drop in, siege one cycle, and leave before you can get there. We had a POCO reinforced the other night and we responded in about 7 minutes but the attackers were already gone. I think the sweet spot for taking down a POCO is a 10-20 man fleet, not a pair of dreads. I also think this may help keep the larger powers out of the lowsec POCO realm, as it will be too tedious to take over large numbers of POCOs.
The station manager role is overloaded, I'd like to see a POCO specific security role. Giving that one title is putting too many eggs in one basket. I'd also like to be able to password protect the configuration and transfer options on a per-POCO basis so a single person cannot steal all your POCOs. Only a director/CEO can recover the PW.
Also, editing POCO configuration while not in the same system seems to be broken. The only way I seem to be able to edit the tax rates is by flying out to the same grid as the POCO. Is this intentional?
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
Yes, it gives people in lowsec something to fight over that doesn't require a monster force to take down (ie POS).
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
Yes, but see #1. CCP needs to keep an eye on this and make changes to keep the large null-sec entities from steam rolling all the lowsec POCOs.
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
More. I just started doing PI myself after POCOs were introduced so see what it is all about. It also gives incentives for corps to encourage PI, as they can make some passive isk from it.
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
Not directly yet, but I've seen some pretty big battle reports over POCOs. |
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Velicitia
Open Designs
426
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 19:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
You need the ability to select which corp wallet the taxes are paid into.
I would honestly like to remove the ability for capitals to engage a POCO in lowsec. It's really hard to defend the initial reinforcement (ie get a fight) when a pair of dreads can drop in, siege one cycle, and leave before you can get there. We had a POCO reinforced the other night and we responded in about 7 minutes but the attackers were already gone. I think the sweet spot for taking down a POCO is a 10-20 man fleet, not a pair of dreads. I also think this may help keep the larger powers out of the lowsec POCO realm, as it will be too tedious to take over large numbers of POCOs.
2 dreads is effectively 10-20 battleships... |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
329
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 19:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:[quote=Andre Vauban]2 dreads is effectively 10-20 battleships... His point is that 2 dreads can reinforce a POCO and then vanish (cyno out) in just 5 minutes. The equivalent fleet in battleships can be detected before it engages, or caught as it leaves. It all comes down to the commitment issue I mentioned earlier.
But I personally think dreads are balanced against POCOs, because during those 5 minutes, the dreads are at a big risk. And, given how easy it is to repair a POCO to 25% and reset the timer, I'm not sure that tactic would achieve much. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Velicitia
Open Designs
427
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 20:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jack Dant wrote:Velicitia wrote:2 dreads is effectively 10-20 battleships... His point is that 2 dreads can reinforce a POCO and then vanish (cyno out) in just 5 minutes. The equivalent fleet in battleships can be detected before it engages, or caught as it leaves. It all comes down to the commitment issue I mentioned earlier. But I personally think dreads are balanced against POCOs, because during those 5 minutes, the dreads are at a big risk. And, given how easy it is to repair a POCO to 25% and reset the timer, I'm not sure that tactic would achieve much.
Sure, it's possible to snag a 20-man BS crew on the way out ... but it took them seven minutes to get there. The BS crew would have RF'd the PCO, and likely safed up in a nearby hi-sec system by the time the defenders showed up. The only difference is that with the dreads, you have ~3 billion in ships/fittings, as well as a GIANT ******* BEACON telling people you're incoming.
If there are two or more gates in the lowsec system, and they weren't being continuously watched, someone could *easily* slip a 10-20 BS crew into the system and RF the PCO (whilst having a cap or two on standby). |
Camios
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
40
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 20:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ah, BTW: before POCOs I was able to buy some leftovers in the market (you know, that 5000 unit of something you need to make your network running if you missed a timer on an extraction control unit). Now there aren't any leftovers in my market region (Molden Heath).
So I gess that there has been a big restructuring in the PI ecosystem. |
Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 20:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jack Dant wrote:Velicitia wrote:[quote=Andre Vauban]2 dreads is effectively 10-20 battleships... His point is that 2 dreads can reinforce a POCO and then vanish (cyno out) in just 5 minutes. The equivalent fleet in battleships can be detected before it engages, or caught as it leaves. It all comes down to the commitment issue I mentioned earlier. But I personally think dreads are balanced against POCOs, because during those 5 minutes, the dreads are at a big risk. And, given how easy it is to repair a POCO to 25% and reset the timer, I'm not sure that tactic would achieve much.
I 100% agree on your commitment comment. I don't know what the best solution is either, but CCP should look for one.
A few random ideas with very little thought put into them:
1. Capitals cannot aggress a POCO in lowsec 2. POCOs have 10 infinite point disruptors with infinite grid range range that will tackle anything that aggresses it. You need to either burn off grid or reinforce the POCO to get free. POCOs still has no weapons, but you're stuck there for a little bit vulnerable while you are attacking. 3. Something else :)
|
pmchem
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
185
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 21:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
Reacting to a reinforcement attempt is difficult for anyone and ya'll really shouldn't focus on that. You're not even meant to necessarily catch people bringing big gangs or stealthy or high dps ships coming to reinforce a POCO. That's the whole point of a TIMER, which is controlled by the owner.
Someone reinforces your POCO? Check the mail for who it was, sit back, and get ready to defend at your chosen time for it to exit reinforced. CCP doesn't expect people to be on 23/7 to formup gangs to defend things, so they have timers which favor the defender.
Working as intended. |
Camios
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
40
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 21:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
I actually made a calculation today and I see that Interbus with 17% taxes takes 37% of profit away from me (considering the fact that I have to export and import between different planets to get things done). Time to get these interbus COs destroyed. |
Jan'tor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
21
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 21:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
The only story I can share about PCOs is how running the math on them keeps making me want to reference the Laffer Curve, as flawed as that concept can often be.
I'm personally in a situation where my taxes paid would multiply tenfold if my tax rates were lower, and I'm prevented from using more aggressive setups because they just aren't financially viable in the climate I'm in. The fact that tax rates cannot be set by product or by product tier (p1, p2, etc), is stifling my projects quite severely. I know pmchem asked for this a number of times pre-crucible and it would really be helpful. Being able to set different rates on import versus export would also make some of the old setups viable again. |
Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 23:09:00 -
[29] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:Hello and a happy new year!
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
Best regards CCP Omen
1. Ya the POCO's themselves. They are way to expensive to put up, and way to easy for someone to take down. In the system that several of us were using some random corps/alliances came in and blew up the POCO's in a low-sec area. We thought eh they will just put some up and we will pay the tax to them, fair enough. Nope. They blew them up and left, now there is nothing. Someone tried putting some up in the system, they were promptly blown up, and still nothing in the system. The corps/alliances have no interest in putting in POCO's (they have stated this), they just want to blow stuff up, target practice for their dreads I think. They simply want to keep the POCO's off line. The alliance doing it is huge, and there is no one around who is going to stop them from doing it. So nearly every system in this area has no POCO's or CO's period.
2. No at least not in our area. Due to the alliance blowing up all the POCO's most of the people have moved out and we no longer have anyone to hunt as they try to move haulers in and out with escorts. Really sad and hurt the areas low-sec PvP fun.
3. Absolutely not, you have in fact done the opposite and killed off any hope of a small or mid size corp of having anything at least where we are. All the small guys left, gone poof on to greener pastures ....... west I heard.
4. PI was relevant the moment you took those goods out of the NPC market and made it up to the player base to make and provide them, POCO's had nothing to do with it.
5. See answer number one. POCO's have hurt our fueling operations for out POS's and killed off any small or mid size corps that we used to PvP against. Now it's either fight the blob alliances (which we won't) or go 35 jumps to find a fight (boring). |
Garr Earthbender
Quantum Cats Syndicate
30
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 23:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
Toku Jiang wrote:Big low sec alliance blew up my POCOs
Seems like a little local market manipulation to me. |
|
pmchem
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
186
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 01:00:00 -
[31] - Quote
I have a hard time believing pretty much anything Toku Jiang said, as it's wildly divergent from other lowsec reports and his character / corp have absolutely no public killboard history. Obvious alt posting in self-interest or troll is obvious.
edit -- he also previously said this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=286944#post286944 "I don't run missions or rat any more, I only do PI for money and I do it all in high sec 0.5 systems. Essentially I have little risk of pirates, and I can do it all in one or two systems. I use 4 characters 4 with level 4 skills 1 with level 5 and crank out PI materials in large doses. My monthly income is a little over 1 billion per month, it takes about 2 hours every few days to reset the PI setups and haul the materials to a central location."
In other words, he's a highsec extractor who is all angry that he's getting hit by taxes, and is just making stuff up about lowsec since he's unhappy about highsec extraction in the patch. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1125
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 01:04:00 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
1. The Interbus HP makes me Cry, having only done 8-9 so far, but whatever.
More importantly, the inability for non-Sov holding (but Blue Standings) alliance members to drop colonies. The fact that there are bands of alliances that set each other Blue is never going to change, but right now, if you want to let some friends drop Command centers on a planet in your Sov, you either can't, or must have them corp hop to do it. A setting on the POCO (or iHub, or whatever) that would allow standings to affect someones ability to place command centers would be lovely.
2. Dunno about NPC Null and Low, but in Sov space, I don't imagine these being taken down until it's time for mop up operations.
3. Not in Sov space
4. Backbone of the T2 Economy, just like before these. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
581
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 02:08:00 -
[33] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
There needs to be a way to setup courier contracts to haul goods to/from the POCO/CO to a station. Which would let you farm out your pickups to other people. Which would also allow it to be more of a corporate thing rather then a loose collection of members who happen to make use of low/null POCOs.
POCOs still need a minor fuel requirement (30 days of fuel capacity and about 3M ISK/mo).
Planets still need to have their refill rates adjusted upwards, to support larger numbers of harvest colonies packed onto a single planet without completely trashing the resources harvested for everyone. POCOs encourage people to congregate onto fewer planets then before.
Command Center PG/CPU needs to be boosted so that we can get more out of existing planets, especially if we train up to CCU IV/V skill levels.
Storage facilities on the planet's surface are still inferior to Launchpads, except in the rare case where you are CPU-constrained (harvest planets are always PG-constrained). They need to be bumped to hold 30k m3 and cost about 1/3 the current PG/CPU to make them worth using.
Command center launches need to be boosted to 300-500 m3 per level of the CCU skill, topping out at around 2000-3000 m3 per launch with a top-level Command Center.
CCP Omen wrote:4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
Not without more items requiring PI goods for production or for use as fuel. There are still NPC sold goods out there (such as Electronic Parts). And there are still a lot of PI goods which don't have much use in other components. |
spookydonut
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
84
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 08:09:00 -
[34] - Quote
As the person in Goonswarm who's been primarily managing our POCOs;
Holy christ allow me to configure every POCO in a system at the same time.
Some sort of feedback when your own corp drops a POCO would be great.
Some sort of feedback when someone destroys the interbus CO in your sov, including who it was. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1129
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 08:51:00 -
[35] - Quote
spookydonut wrote:As the person in Goonswarm who's been primarily managing our POCOs;
Holy christ allow me to configure every POCO in a system at the same time.
Some sort of feedback when your own corp drops a POCO would be great.
Some sort of feedback when someone destroys the interbus CO in your sov, including who it was.
Yes
Yes
Yes (But not Who and probably best an hour or two after the fact) |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
332
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 10:21:00 -
[36] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:2. POCOs have 10 infinite point disruptors with infinite grid range range that will tackle anything that aggresses it. You need to either burn off grid or reinforce the POCO to get free. POCOs still has no weapons, but you're stuck there for a little bit vulnerable while you are attacking. Too much. But something like a 1-2 randomly switching infinipoints in the 30-40km range would force you to make a decision. Do you want to go close range, max gank, but be somewhat vulnerable? Or long range, lower DPS, but safer? Right now you don't have to choose, you can be max gank and pretty much invulnerable. Also make the POCO lock any attackers (so they can't cloak). What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
332
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 10:39:00 -
[37] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:POCOs still need a minor fuel requirement (30 days of fuel capacity and about 3M ISK/mo). Can't support this. The "fire and forget unless shot at" aspect of POCOs is important to let smaller/less organized corps deploy them. Also, you would end with a repeat of the offline towers that must be shot down scenario.
Quote:Planets still need to have their refill rates adjusted upwards, to support larger numbers of harvest colonies packed onto a single planet without completely trashing the resources harvested for everyone. POCOs encourage people to congregate onto fewer planets then before. Agreed.
Quote:Not without more items requiring PI goods for production or for use as fuel. There are still NPC sold goods out there (such as Electronic Parts). And there are still a lot of PI goods which don't have much use in other components. IIRC, some devs have already mentioned they wanted to "bite the bullet" with technetium and re-do the reaction/T2 production chain to rebalance moon mins. This would be a good chance to integrate more P2-P3 items into the chain. Right now most of them are just intermediate products, so their market is very volatile, much like the simple reaction market. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1130
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 11:24:00 -
[38] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote: Planets still need to have their refill rates adjusted upwards, to support larger numbers of harvest colonies packed onto a single planet without completely trashing the resources harvested for everyone. POCOs encourage people to congregate onto fewer planets then before.
Sounds like you've got two competing forces striving for equilibrium.
Low yield due to competition results in diaspora. High costs to set up and maintain a POCO encourage centralization. The market will determine where the balance lies.
I see no problem there. Moving is relatively painless, due to being able to scan quickly and easily for concentration, while knowing what you're going to get.
I think it's basically what you're asking to happen to Moon Goo. Moving hotspots of value with high logistical and startup costs to catch them. Except that scanning planets isn't a mechanic made of the distilled hatred of an Elder Being. |
|
CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
146
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 11:38:00 -
[39] - Quote
Thanks for your feedback! Keep it coming.
We are organizing a list of potential actions =)
Regards Omen Game Designer Team Pi |
|
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
169
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 12:26:00 -
[40] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:Thanks for your feedback! Keep it coming.
We are organizing a list of potential actions =)
Regards Omen
What is this?
You are CCP. You are supposed to roll out a new feature (POCOs) and then discard it and leave it unfinished for 3 years while you do more :awesome: features (all obviously released half-finished).
You are confusing me. I'm scared. |
|
Neo Agricola
BLACK-MARK
184
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 14:26:00 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:...
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
1.) No Comment 2) No 3) see 2) 4) that Question is BS! sorry. Someone has to do PI for PosFuel and so on. and currently it is a PitA (aka. clickfest) which takes a lot of time to set up... 5) see 2) DISSONANCE is recruiting Members: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=70361#post70361 Black-Mark Alliance Recruitment: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6710 |
pmchem
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
188
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 15:02:00 -
[42] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Scrapyard Bob wrote: Planets still need to have their refill rates adjusted upwards, to support larger numbers of harvest colonies packed onto a single planet without completely trashing the resources harvested for everyone. POCOs encourage people to congregate onto fewer planets then before.
Sounds like you've got two competing forces striving for equilibrium. Low yield due to competition results in diaspora. High costs to set up and maintain a POCO encourage centralization. The market will determine where the balance lies. I see no problem there. Moving is relatively painless, due to being able to scan quickly and easily for concentration, while knowing what you're going to get.
Yeah, I do not think planets need refill rates adjusted up. The universe is a big, big place and too little of it is fully utilized. If one planet is too heavily used, then people should just go elsewhere. Make a different product. Set up a new POCO. Not have CCP make it so everyone in a region is using the same plasma planet or whatever. Increasing refill rates will also make PI goods more common due to increased production, lowering prices, making POCOs less important, etc.
No need to increase refill rates. |
trianna Ekanon
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 15:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
I would say that PI demand needs to go way up. The only market thats somewhat robust is the Pos fuel market. Having POCO's use P4 was great but that was only a temporary boom with a small residual market.
Perhaps its time to start need electronics to make spaceships. |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
334
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 17:06:00 -
[44] - Quote
trianna Ekanon wrote:I would say that PI demand needs to go way up. The only market thats somewhat robust is the Pos fuel market. Having POCO's use P4 was great but that was only a temporary boom with a small residual market.
Perhaps its time to start need electronics to make spaceships. Yes, the PI market is just not liquid enough at the moment. Working from CCP's market data from last year (and it's about time more recent data was released), the daily trade for most PI items in Jita is absurdly low.
Except for stuff used for POS fuel or T2 components, each P2 or P3 item moves 200-800m isk a day, while P4 do just 2-4b/day. For comparison, most complex reactions move around 10-12b isk a day.
Giving all those items a place in T2 production would make for a much healthier market and encourage more people to do PI. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
121
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 17:37:00 -
[45] - Quote
My biggest issues at the moment are:
1) Once I've set up my planets, if I want to change the materials I'm extracting I need to reconfigure the extractors and heads, the routing to storage, the processing from that storage, and the routing to launch. It's very tedious. I would love to be able to set up the processors to process any good, as long as it had the full set of ingredients (preferably with a prioritized list).
That way I can set up 3 basic processors and 2 advanced processors and their routing chains that will process anything that's available to them, without having to delete and reroute everything each time. All I need to do is introduce any new goods into the chain (by extraction or import) and it'll fire up.
2) Storage requires a stupid amount of power for a trivial amount of space. Either the requirements need to go way down or the storage way up (possibly both).
3) I have several planets that produce P2 goods from P0. I would love to have more info on the base UI about how much each extractor was pulling. At the moment, I have to flip back and forth between the extractor's program menus to make sure that I'm getting more of the one I'm short on.
4) Remembering the scanner sensitivity for each extractor would be a great boon. I rarely change what I'm extracting, so instead of having to reconfigure the scanner 12 times every time I restart my extractors, it'd be nice to only have to do that once in a long while if I'm changing what I'm looking for.
Some general ideas:
1) The ability to process resources at a POS would be quite interesting. I would expect that it would need BPOs (or BPCs produced through PI) and take longer than on planet production, but it adds more options and flexibility without increasing the passive income of a player by allowing them to have more planets.
2) The ability to link command centers to share resources. (Potentially one link per level of command center). |
spookydonut
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
86
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 21:06:00 -
[46] - Quote
Callic Veratar wrote:My biggest issues at the moment are:
1) Once I've set up my planets, if I want to change the materials I'm extracting I need to reconfigure the extractors and heads, the routing to storage, the processing from that storage, and the routing to launch. It's very tedious. I would love to be able to set up the processors to process any good, as long as it had the full set of ingredients (preferably with a prioritized list).
That way I can set up 3 basic processors and 2 advanced processors and their routing chains that will process anything that's available to them, without having to delete and reroute everything each time. All I need to do is introduce any new goods into the chain (by extraction or import) and it'll fire up.
2) Storage requires a stupid amount of power for a trivial amount of space. Either the requirements need to go way down or the storage way up (possibly both).
3) I have several planets that produce P2 goods from P0. I would love to have more info on the base UI about how much each extractor was pulling. At the moment, I have to flip back and forth between the extractor's program menus to make sure that I'm getting more of the one I'm short on.
4) Remembering the scanner sensitivity for each extractor would be a great boon. I rarely change what I'm extracting, so instead of having to reconfigure the scanner 12 times every time I restart my extractors, it'd be nice to only have to do that once in a long while if I'm changing what I'm looking for.
Some general ideas:
1) The ability to process resources at a POS would be quite interesting. I would expect that it would need BPOs (or BPCs produced through PI) and take longer than on planet production, but it adds more options and flexibility without increasing the passive income of a player by allowing them to have more planets.
2) The ability to link command centers to share resources. (Potentially one link per level of command center).
Heres someone who didn't read the OP at all.
How does any of that have to do with Player Owned Customs Offices? |
non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
734
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 00:06:00 -
[47] - Quote
The only thing I'd say is that it'd be nice if the Interbus CO had less shield HP. Maybe half the shields (and maybe half the armor as well) would be great. I would start replacing more of them if the Interbus CO were easier to kill. I do of course realise that it is mainly for bigger corps, who have more people and can defend the new POCO, to replace the old Interbus CO. |
Gyges Skyeye
Five Taxes Guardians Templar of Draconis
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 04:01:00 -
[48] - Quote
1. I think that the POCO system could be much more user friendly if there was a way to more easily set aside the PI tax revenue. Having it necessary for someone to go and tally up all PI tax entries in the corp wallet or even create a program for it is not really fun, nor in my opinion a worthwhile barrier to have.
As these new features are added, it will help if you iterate on some of the older features on which they rely. I'm sure that most of the space accountants would love to have more than Seven wallet divisions, or even better have separate revenue streams be directed into their own piles.
I presume that much of the original wallet features were created with the game in 2003 and was possibly as much as 32 bit chips could handle. But you know, were in 2011 now and it would be nice for Eve to kind of catch up. People can go out and buy software programs to do their taxes for them now. We can handle having a more powerful suite of tools at our disposal to manage our space empires.
3. Provided mid to small corps have the firepower and time to take down the interbus ones, yes.
2. I haven't noticed a big increase in pvp activities, but I live in a wormhole. My big thought on this is: If it was your intent to have conflict originate over Customs offices, I feel that has largely failed. I say this because to begin with the customs office as it stands is kind of antithetical to conflict. Customs offices right now are industrial facilities and small ones. Customs offices are never the vital installation owned by residents. (Maybe they will be once they are tied into Sov but not currently) If you own a null sec system Sovereignty is your most valuable asset. If you live in W-space your POS is your most valuable asset. If you live in Lowsec you are probably crazy or a pirate and also probably rely on high sec. If you live in high sec, well NPCs own everything there anyway. That I find to be your problem.
My suggestion is allow player corporations to gain license to operate customs offices in high sec. Think of it as CONCORD franchising out the customs offices if you will. The current tax rates remain the base rate. The 20%* tax that currently exists continues to be paid to CONCORD. Player corporations may charge additional fees beyond this 20% tax rate and keep the margin for themselves.
Because the current war system kind of sucks, I am going to propose a relatively simple system to encourage combat focused on these structures. In order to gain ownership, corps can either place a bid to concord on a customs office or blow it up and place one down the old fashioned way. A sample bidding system would be a mandatory 25 million isk minimum bid, minimum auction time of 48 hours after an opening bid on a customs office is received, and a 6 hour shotgun rule on bids finishing the auction. If a planet in high sec has no customs office at downtime, concord simply places a new one there under its ownership. (Queing the whole bidding process to start over again.) (I envision bids being public knowledge. No silent auctions)
Now in order to destroy a customs office, instead of the default war system, I propose these mechanics. A corp or alliance may file a right of claim petition with CONCORD over ability to destroy a customs office for 5 million isk, or over an entire system for 25 million isk. A corp may only have 10 planetary claims or 2 system claims active at once. (Basically nothing exceeding 50million isk in value, at which point a normal war dec will suffice for such larger ventures) These claims function for a weeks time regardless of if they now own the customs office in question.
This should be pretty similar to the war system except allow for a more focused approach allowing an actual industry to spring up around owning the customs offices. The claim would basically allow for unrestricted hostilities between the claimant and the current owner on the grid of the customs office only. People can adapt their fighting methodologies thusly.
Thoughts?
4. I think with rising PI product prices comes rising awareness of their origin. PI is still most entirely avoidable for all but the largest groups of players.
*or whatever % it is
(Sorry if there is a double post. Internet is futzy today) |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1138
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 04:59:00 -
[49] - Quote
That is an absurdly overcomplicated system. In Hisec, you don't get to own public infrastructure. Full stop. You get POSes and that's it.
As for the combat only allowed on Grid, you know you can easily build Grid walls and the like to keep your Logi safe and let you pop back and forth across grids, right? Making neutral RR even sillier?
Grid-Fu Guide.
Some of it's been ruled naughty, most of it's still nice. Santa's not going to bother checking it twice.
Second thought on that, if you want to shoot someone in Hisec, Wardec them (CCP fix the DecShields so I stop sounding like an ass for suggesting that people do something that can't help) |
Souchek Lehman
Ten Thousand Years
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 13:58:00 -
[50] - Quote
Good afternoon. I am a fairly new player and the CEO of a small company. Not exactly the best at S&I, however I thought I would chip in my two isk. We were recently involved in a struggle for control over a particular systems POCOs. In the end we ended up on the losing side, however I can say that during that week I had some of the highest and lowest moments of my trip through EVE. It was a wild ride, I probably learned more about low sec politics in that week than in the preceding three months. At times I got fairly stressed but in the end I had more fun sitting docked with thirteen chat windows open then I ever had in WoW progression raiding. Hell, I even got my first two kills. I think in the end it was a great idea, and with a little tweaking will work out just fine. All the corps and alliances involved in our conflict were mid to small sized. Keep it coming and give us some more space toys to set up and tear down. Its things like this that made me want to play this game and I have been very pleased with your work since the new xpac. Thank you and hope you had a good holidays. S.L. |
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RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1138
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 14:47:00 -
[51] - Quote
Souchek Lehman wrote:Good afternoon. I am a fairly new player and the CEO of a small company. Not exactly the best at S&I, however I thought I would chip in my two isk. We were recently involved in a struggle for control over a particular systems POCOs. In the end we ended up on the losing side, however I can say that during that week I had some of the highest and lowest moments of my trip through EVE. It was a wild ride, I probably learned more about low sec politics in that week than in the preceding three months. At times I got fairly stressed but in the end I had more fun sitting docked with thirteen chat windows open then I ever had in WoW progression raiding. Hell, I even got my first two kills. I think in the end it was a great idea, and with a little tweaking will work out just fine. All the corps and alliances involved in our conflict were mid to small sized. Keep it coming and give us some more space toys to set up and tear down. Its things like this that made me want to play this game and I have been very pleased with your work since the new xpac. Thank you and hope you had a good holidays. S.L.
You sir, Win at being an EVE neophyte. I tip my hat to ye. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
247
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 17:37:00 -
[52] - Quote
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
For me the main issue is that not only was the tax increased, but the cost basis for the tax was massively increased. The way it is now it really increases the cost of operating my factory planets. Fortunately the market price for what I make has gone way up, so Im still making excellent profit. For now.
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
Ive heard it has, but have had little personal involvement.
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
We set some up, but last I heard the income was pathetic, and the payback will be years.
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
For me, more relevant as I'm making more money.
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
Not awesome, but: We cleared out all the COs from a low sec system and set our own. Used several carriers, battleships, and a Nyx. The local pirates noticed the Nyx, but did nothing. A few days later they knocked 3 POCOs into reinforced. We got our plans together and went in. The pirates were shooting some of the POCOs to get our attention. We brought in several BS's, several carriers and a smattering of other ships. They all hid or logged, except for one Drake that they sacrificed to us. A few triage cycles later all the POCOs were repped up. We have had no issues since. CCP employees should never proclaim a feature to be awesome. Only subscribers should. Subscribers can never answer a question posed to CCP. Only CCP can. |
Kagan Storm
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
42
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 19:03:00 -
[53] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:Hello and a happy new year!
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
Best regards CCP Omen
1. taxes are fine just enough to make you wana do something and not be terribly bothered if you cant 2. no 3. yes. A LOT 4. CSAA are made from it.. lol... and poses for moongoo :) Relativ yes. Controllable like moons no. 5. no
MY questions back
1. why does planet view show position of Customs office?
2. WHY NO DISCOUNT FOR PEOPLE WITH HIGH CONCORD STANDING. Would make sense
3. Why POCO dosent use ISK for operating? i mean there is people on it.. people I have shoot and killed... you know... you flip stations.. kill a few and all go back to work... POCO you blow up. Make it use atlase a Janitor or some exotic dancers or something Custom office official. When you blow it up i tahs 50% chance of dropping it CONCORD sells them
4. Shoot POCO. POCO drops PI? Why no? My ego is the the size of my carriers jump range. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1141
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 19:57:00 -
[54] - Quote
Kagan Storm wrote:2. WHY NO DISCOUNT FOR PEOPLE WITH HIGH CONCORD STANDING. Would make sense 3. Why POCO dosent use ISK for operating? i mean there is people on it.. people I have shoot and killed... you know... you flip stations.. kill a few and all go back to work... POCO you blow up. Make it use atlase a Janitor or some exotic dancers or something Custom office official. When you blow it up i tahs 50% chance of dropping it CONCORD sells them 4. Shoot POCO. POCO drops PI? Why no?
2. Since it's trivial to get up to 5 Sec, it would remove much of the tax incentive to go to a POCO from a IBCO. Also Interbus != CONCORD
3. If you mean fuel, no structure in EVE that can not be picked up and carted away uses fuel. In essence, the cost (since it's non-recoverable, it's a cost rather than an asset [like a POS is]) to run the POCO is the cost to set one up amortized over how long you can keep it alive.
4. Yeah, Why no PI drops from POCOs? That seems silly to me as well. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
394
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 22:51:00 -
[55] - Quote
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible? Players should be able to set the base prices, not just the taxation amount. Or merge the two into one, and make it a flat amount by type.
Taxation by individual standings would also be a good idea.
Storage silos in PI have been broken since day one: they are useless for their small capacity and high requirements.
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature? It has increased. But I doubt it is anything to brag about.
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations? Depends on the definition, but I'd suggest the answer is no.
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE? Many players have stopped doing PI in hisec. It is no longer really useful to new players or hisec dwellers.
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office? Can't tell if you are being serious or not. They are unexciting defenseless structures. |
Mandarani
The High and Mighty
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 03:04:00 -
[56] - Quote
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
Nah, refinement is always nice, but nothing is terribad
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
Yes This is exactly what LowSec needs, have Kill mails to prove it (yay for silly dreads).
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations? Most certainly, profits are nothing to write home about, but this brings more fights
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE? Dunno, POCOs didn't really change anything in that regard.
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office? Fights are good, to reinforce someone's POCO, then make friends and end up recruiting them is awesome! |
Miiikka
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 11:09:00 -
[57] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:Don't think there has really been enough time for everything to settle into a pattern yet. What I would say is broken (well perhaps not broken but against the grain at least) is a couple of things. 1. You just handed on a gold plater null sec alliances a bonus 10% on there already larger share of PI profit. 2. Your system seems to try and encourage people to hold and defend property in low sec, something no-one is really going to undertake as the rest of the tools a null sec alliance have for these purposes aren't available. Discouraging people from taking that 'risk it for a biscuit route' and basically doing the oppossite of what you seem to have intended. 3. The overall effect therefore was a nerf to high sec ops and a buff for the already phenominally rich null sec alliances, plus added another complication for those who want to dip there toe in riskier ventures. All in all a nice idea, when implemented doing almost the complete opposite of what was intended, pretty much par for the course really. Just the way I see things of course your milage may vary. /edit- thanks for asking though
Pretty much this.
Most of the large Sov holding Alliances are tearing down the Interbus Offices and erecting their own, thus adding to their already substantial income stream.
The Offices in lowsec have had some activity surrounding them, but are for the most part untouched.
Small Corps who do not have the means to destroy/defend these offices are being shut out, by the added complication of increased charges for their members who carry out PI to offset the costs of towers etc.
So, as predicted another additional income stream for large Alliances, another blow for the small corps/individuals trying to make a little profit out of PI.
My 4 characters continued with PI for a week after this change was implimented to see how things went, but then I stopped them on all 20 planets. The higher initial charges, along with the reduced profit (which was not that much anyway) makes it not worth the time invested anymore.
Its a shame, but not entirely unexpected. |
Toshiro GreyHawk
137
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 14:03:00 -
[58] - Quote
First off, I'd like to point out that there was more than one aspect to the game play modification that created the POCO's - which was the one that turned the Hi Sec ones over to Concord and drastically increased the taxes on imports and exports.
So - if you only want to hear about Low/Null Sec POCO's and don't give a damn about the impact of the taxes on Hi Sec PI (where I suspect most of the people doing PI are) - then the OP should have been written such and #1 shouldn't just refer to "PI Taxes" but to "POCO Taxes".
Now - as to trying to get people to go down to Low Sec by taxing them into doing it - that can have some effect but for the most part - the taxes will not get people who are Hi Sec Care Bears down into Low Sec - they will simply cease whatever activity you're penalizing if the penalties become to onerous. To really encourage people to go down to Low Sec - you'd need to raise taxes on EVERYTHING in Hi Sec. As long as they can just change occupations - that's mostly what they're going to do. Of course - a number are going to quit the game before they go down to Low Sec ... so that's something else you'll have to deal with if you do tax everything in Hi Sec at a higher rate.
Now on to the questions as they effect Hi Sec PI, much of which has already been said - but is being repeated here for emphasis.
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
a) The remarks made by others concerning the storage situation are to the point. In the past - a work around to the near usless nature of the storage silos - was to use the CO for the over flow. Now - you're not only getting taxed to send it up there - you're getting taxed to send it back - and then - getting taxed again to finally export your finished product. Thus - as mentioned - the drastically increased taxes on import/export through the CO have had a negative effect on this work around and high lighted the flaw in the design of the Storage Silos. Most people don't use them. While they cost about a third of the price of another Launch Pad - initial set up costs are not the biggest problem - Power Grid is. Given that the initial surge at the begining of an extraction cycle can over flow the small capacity of a Storage Silo - it has no real use. For newer players - the extra cost of using Launch Pads as Storage Silos - is not only counter intuitive - but much more expensive.
b) Whether the taxes are terrible or not - depends on how much money you've already got. For most people who have spent some time already playing the game - the increased taxes are a real irritant - but not crippling. However - for newer players just getting into PI - they raise the bar on what is needed to get started. As is - with skill costs and infrastructure there is a real cost to setting up a colony - and if you are setting up multiple colonies that ... multiplies those costs.
c) There are different PI strategies that depend on what it is you want to do and what's available to you to do it with. The creation of Factory Planets - where materials are exported from one planet to be imported to another - is heavily effected by the increase in taxes - especially for individuals or small corporations that don't have a lot of money to get their PI efforts started.
d) As mentioned - the fact that you cannot use a corporate Wallet to pay these taxes - means that you've got to manually move money from the individuals corporate wallet to their personal wallet - which is a pain in the ass. Before - since the taxes were then trivial - it wasn't as big a problem since you didn't have to do it as much. Now it is. Given all the other pain in the ass stuff associated with this - it would be nice if this was fixed. Currently, PI is done by individuals - not corporations. There is for example no corporate access to the CO or the Launch Pad.
e) As to trying to get around paying taxes through manual launches from the Control Center ... I've not seen that as very workable using expedited transfers due to the low storage capacity of the CC and the lag between transfers but I've not tried routing to the CC ... *shrug* ...
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
Don't know.
|
Toshiro GreyHawk
137
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 14:05:00 -
[59] - Quote
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
That is hard to say - especially since PI is in fact done by individuals rather than corporations ...
As mentioned above - for individuals seeking to start in PI - it's raised the bar. Once you get your colonies going and making money it's not that bad - but it makes the start up harder - as you are paying taxes on something you haven't sold yet. We pay taxes in the Market Place on goods we have sold - but then we already have the money from the sale to pay the taxes. With PI - you are paying the taxes just to import and export goods - before you've gotten anything out of them. Then of course - you have to pay taxes AGAIN - when you actually sell them.
So it depends on what you mean by "small and mid-sized". If they've got the money to deal with the start up costs then it's not that bad. If they don't ... they're going to have to come up with it before they can do anything really worth while - and do it properly. With low skills and little money - you can go **** around with PI but it's mostly not going to be worth your trouble. The other factor in this - AGAIN - is that ... since PI is an activity of individuals - the amount of corporate support they can draw on is a major factor in a PI start up. If the Corporation is behind them and willing to pony up the start up costs - then "mid-sized" corporations should have no problem ... depending on how many people they are trying to get started at a time and what their other finnacial obligations are. The "small" corporations ... especially the one man corporations ... are going to have a much rougher time with startups.
Another factor here is what is meant by "opportunities". In the realm of PI - no - it hasn't created any new opportunities and has made PI itself harder. For those seeking to exploit or blow up people - yeah - there it may have created opportunities. I personally have no trouble believing that people would just go around blowing up Interbus CO's without putting up their own - just for the joy of destruction and to mess with other players. I mean ... this is EVE ... of course they would do that. How long they'd keep it up - would be one thing - but then - Interbus isn't reseeding those CO's ... so if no one puts up a POCO ... and defends it ... CC launches are all anyone trying to do PI on that planet has or is going to have.
In any case - as has been pointed out - the larger the corporation - the more they are in a position to take advantage of what the POCO's have to offer in terms of exploitation as well as in denying resources to those weaker than they are. Maybe they have all the POCO's they can defend - but that doesn't stop them from destroying the ones someone else might use.
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
I would imagine it was about the same. The market for PI products hasn't changed - and since you can't get these products anywhere other than PI - nothings changed there.
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
I have no awesome stories. Just stories about what a pain in the ass it is to manually juggle money and try to come up with on better on site storage (at the expense of production) since the work around of using the CO as over flow has become less desirable. For me - the entire POCO evolution has been nothing but a negative ... except for the increased prices I'm getting but then we'll have to see what happens with that. If it stays the way it is - then the increase in prices I'm getting will have made up for the increased irritations. Of course ... you might want to ask the people who are paying those increased prices how they feel about it. Some of them may well be able to just pass the price increase on - but somewhere - someone - is going to be paying for the extra money I'm getting for my goods. However ... if it doesn't stay where it's at or go up some more ... if I end up getting about what I was getting before and have to deal with all the aggravation then I'll be the one who's not happy.
*shrug*
|
Gustavus Adolphus
Croatoan Enterprises The Silent One's
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 14:08:00 -
[60] - Quote
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
If the stated goal was to punish PvE types or provide LOL's for griffers, itGÇÖs been achieved. PI taxes really donGÇÖt matter at all, you could raise them over 1,000% or even 1,000,000%, they just get amortized into the final production costs and passed on to the end consumer, hello ISK sink.
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
Not really, no one cares, griffers blow up Interbus CO and POCOs alike; but it is nice to see the one sided care for PvP types being posted in a PvE forum.
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
Thanks for the LOL's, oh sorry, was that meant to be a question or a sarcastic joke?
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
Its part of a production chain for many items, PI will always be in stasis per the importance or demand of the final item(s).
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
Yeah, one time at Band CampGǪ..
|
|
Javadude
Java Industrial Services
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 14:27:00 -
[61] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:Hello and a happy new year!
We are getting back to work and this is high time to evaluate how the Player Owned Customs Office feature worked out and potentially address any rough edges. Needless to say, we have been monitoring the developments for any major issues, and several defects were fixed during the past month. With this thread we want to collect your impressions and learn how you are using the feature and how you believe it has impacted EVE.
Here are a few questions if you need help to get started. Please remember that constructive feedback is more likely to lead anywhere.
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
Best regards CCP Omen
First and foremost, I would like to thank you guys for all the hardwork you've been doing in PI, I'm running 50 planets so I'm not exdactly thrilled everytime you guys come out with a change that forces me to rethink or even re-do my planets and I do grumble but after that shakeout, I do appreciate the direction you are trying to go with it.
1. My alliance assumed all ownereship of all poco's in the sov and set the rate at 15%, which actually I'm ok with, I have a serious problem with CCP at the fact that the charigng point is a static rate pulled out of the air when prices were up because people were stock piling. It would really be nice if that tax rate was recalculated on the first of each month or something based on a resample snap shot.
The problem with this is even within any corporation or alliance, you'll never get someone to go around and re-adjust things. The reason why (a) greed; (b) lazy; (c) PI to them is one step below mining. If you floated the tax rate against a weighted market average rather than a static grab, none of us would be so pissed about the fact that you forced socialist mechanisms of failed economies into the game. You only made big alliances richer with the tax rates and stuck it to the guys who do all the work.
2. No
3. Allliances are loving CCP for this, as the greedy @sshats who usually only login to stuff thier pockets and log out, they thank you. What is this corp profit you speak of? You know all the alliances are calling POCO ownership the new techmoon income.
4. More now that the Big Alliances are taking it all over in Null Sec. You guys really thought this would benefit small corporations? LOL you didn't factor in an inherent trait of eve, greedy RMT stuffing pocket alliances leaderships leeching on to one more revenue stream they can convert to real currency. All alliance learders are dirty, plain and simple. Expect more honesty from a User Card Dealership when you plan your next move.
5. Thought it was funny warping around a fleet of 5 supers and 3 carriers swapping out POCO's, seemed like a good use of time lol.
|
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
338
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 15:07:00 -
[62] - Quote
Javadude wrote:4. More now that the Big Alliances are taking it all over in Null Sec. You guys really thought this would benefit small corporations? LOL you didn't factor in an inherent trait of eve, greedy RMT stuffing pocket alliances leaderships leeching on to one more revenue stream they can convert to real currency. All alliance learders are dirty, plain and simple. Expect more honesty from a User Card Dealership when you plan your next move. Alliances putting up POCOs in their space sounds about the normal, expected behaviour. The chances for smaller corps are where they have always been, in lowsec and npc 0.0.
I'm curious what the situation looks like in Syndicate and Curse. Are there POCOs there? Who owns them? What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Lyra Blazing
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 16:44:00 -
[63] - Quote
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
Well PI is mostly a Click fest and boring as hell. I also dont like the fact that you have to watch you planets every day or loose output. Only Reason i have to do PI at all is running a pos and some T2 production. If it gets any worse like more products needing PI i am going to quite doing it and just buy off the market.
All said i preferred buying that stuff from npcs and would love to get back to that.
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
Well i heard of ppl taking down Interbus COs not exactly sure if thats pvp.
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
ATM i am running 5 planets for POS fuel. If the COs are removed by someone i am going to quit doing PI and buy the stuff from the Goons or some other large Alliance.
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
Well you need that crap for pos fuel and some T2 so its not like anybody has a choice
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
Well i saw 4 of 5 in lowsec not sure if thats qualifies as a story.
Btw can we get the old forums back ? This was my first post on the new forums and eve gate sucks. |
Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
309
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 16:45:00 -
[64] - Quote
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
The fact that corp->char standings are not considered, inability to adjust tax rates for P0, P1, P2, P3, P4s etc and finally planetary launches should be a viable option for producing P1s.
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
Yes, but not significantly.
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
Yes, so long as null sec alliances continue to ignore low-sec POCOs. If a null sec alliance decides to just steam roll POCOs in low sec "for the lulz" then these new opportunities will quickly disappear.
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
PI has always been relevant so long as POS fuels are dependent upon it. Many people have made enough money off of PI alone to PLEX their account.
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
In the first week after Crucible, a wormhole spawned in the low sec loop. The local pies, whom i had befriended despite being a massive carebear, scouted the wormhole and found two oracles bashing an Interbus CO in their wormhole system. The pies invited me to the bash and I took them up on the offer. I brought an Oracle of my own to the fleet. It was a text book maneuver: we jumped in, warped to the targets, lit them up, looted, pillaged and jumped out.
|
Nyrak
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 20:30:00 -
[65] - Quote
I will start with three points:
One - I am a high security planet farmer and cultivator (or at least role-play).
Two - As a paradox to this game, I am more the creator type of player than the destroyer type.
Three - While most players seem to accept PI (closer to borderline despise), I actually like running my planets.
So when the POCOs were announced, I really did not give it much thought. My small group of planets off the beaten path in high security space did not seem to have been noticed by the general populance, so doing my own little thing was not stressful. While I was not making top ISK farming planets, I made enough that slowly expanding my number of planets and the bases on each planet was not running me dry. At one point, I considered building and saving enough pieces of combined planetary goods to create my own station if someday I desired. Then the POCOs were released.
The first issue I noticed was just how expensive everything became from building nothing into something. Instead of each item having its own taxing price, all the goods were clumped by their tiers. Thus items that barely had a market presence would cost just as much to take it off a planet as items like station fuels that always sold. So I started to consider tooling everything towards stuff that constantly sold and hope I could make a meager profit. But then what would I do to my planets that were already established and not tooled towards station fuels only?
The second issue I noticed was how all these station fuels were going to stabilize into the eventual price per fuel block and wondered if I should push everything into that direction. Without the accessible means to gain these prints and make them perfect, in time I would loose ISK by waste of items. I understand the concept of the "haves" to the "haves not" and was not demanding any special treatment. But looking towards the future, I saw how it was going to be very difficult to keep pace in the play style I have been using (casual).
The third issue I noticed was mentioned by another poster above me - using the floating CO above the planet as an oversized storage container was running my wallet dry. So I pondered either running into the red and go all out whenever I struck a good vein on the planet or curtail extractions and let the bases have periods of idling as I drain materials into the highest tier of product. Either route would not be bringing in the ISK.
The fourth issue I noticed was I suddenly had neighbors, and plenty of them on my nice, quiet planets. My good veins on a planet were drying faster than I was extracting and became quite annoyed at these interlopers. Perhaps these players were low security runners that got scared of the new potential owners and quickly ran into high security space for safety. For me, I suddenly had a temporary change of heart and did an 180 degree turn and wanted to destroy them. I looked into the Dust game as a means of removing them but realized high security space would not be affected. Fortunately, it seems these neighbors were not fond of my planets and have departed, leaving me to toil away in peace once again. But I still have an urge every now and then of blasting someone else's planetary base even though such games are not something I would considered playing previously.
The fifth and most recent issue I noticed has been the stabilization of the markets once again with people playing the 0.01 ISK game. Unfortunately I do not have the time nor patience to baby sit my orders. So as I set up sell orders and then wait and wait and wait until I finally get to check upon it to find it is the highest costing order. Meanwhile, the taxes from moving goods back and forth on a planet are taking its toll. While it is mere pocket change for most, nearly 42 million just in taxes are taking its toll on the dwindling market.
So I will have to start a main profession (probably missions) since I will have to delegate planetary interaction into a secondary means of support instead of my primary means of having fun creating something in a destructive game.
Please do not take this as a whining post, but as a high security player's perspective upon the release of the POCOs. |
Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 21:54:00 -
[66] - Quote
pmchem wrote:I have a hard time believing pretty much anything Toku Jiang said, as it's wildly divergent from other lowsec reports and his character / corp have absolutely no public killboard history. Obvious alt posting in self-interest or troll is obvious. edit -- he also previously said this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=286944#post286944"I don't run missions or rat any more, I only do PI for money and I do it all in high sec 0.5 systems. Essentially I have little risk of pirates, and I can do it all in one or two systems. I use 4 characters 4 with level 4 skills 1 with level 5 and crank out PI materials in large doses. My monthly income is a little over 1 billion per month, it takes about 2 hours every few days to reset the PI setups and haul the materials to a central location." In other words, he's a highsec extractor who is all angry that he's getting hit by taxes, and is just making stuff up about lowsec since he's unhappy about highsec extraction in the patch.
Yes this is an alt. Yes this is an alt corp specifically for industry so ya no kills, And yes doing PI in lowsec was making a lot of money. And yes the corp where I keep my "main" account liked to roam in that particular lowsec area, but no longer. Now the lowsec area is dead that we were utilizing. Have recently moved to another lowsec area where an alliance has taken over and managed the POCOs and taxes are 10% and things are slowly getting back to normal and we can find fights. As to highsec I never did PI in highsec the yields were never high enough to bother in my opinion.
I still think the POCO's are a **** poor idea and have only been implemented to accommdate DUST, which I hope the game dies off quickly |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
247
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 22:44:00 -
[67] - Quote
CCP, I never considered using the CO for buffer storage. But apparently others have, and the high taxes have hit them hard. A possible addition to PI that would help this situation is to allow launchpads to be upgraded to have more storage. Each upgrade would have a cost about equal to a warehouse, but unlike adding a warehouse PIN you do not need to worry about getting the routing right, or doing expedited transfers.
CCP employees should never proclaim a feature to be awesome. Only subscribers should. Subscribers can never answer a question posed to CCP. Only CCP can. |
Dal Thrax
Consolidated Munitions
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 18:58:00 -
[68] - Quote
I agree with the poster who suggested a planetary marketplace. Individual in game planetary market bulletin boards (similar to craigslist) might help to create a sense of community/place for major planets.
While tax rates are fine, the depletion mechanic needs to be examined by an economist to make sure that both high sec and null have a comparative advantage to engage in planetary trade.
Could you add a list of all CCs on a planet so that I donGÇÖt have to hunt each one down it I want to see that playerGÇÖs setup. Also, it would be nice of the PI interface under the science in industry tab would list the number of extractors each planet has, how long each has on its cycle and the contents/m3 of each storage structure.
To make silos more useful increase the bandwidth of links between a spaceport and a silo to 60,000m3/hour and between silos to 10,000m3/hour. If IGÇÖm understanding mechanics right this would allow me to have one spaceport , drop 10,000m3 into it and have the factories immediately pull the landed materials into silos. This means that I only need to have once spaceport on a factory world and the routing will automatically sort any landed PI products into the correct storage area.
|
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
244
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 21:43:00 -
[69] - Quote
All I have to say is CCP ripped away one successful business opportunity that I had going.
Even broke down and disbanded my Low Sec PI Corp - Bison - Placid PI.
Casual players don't have the time devotion to defend the near 'defenseless' POCO's.
THIS was seriously the worst, most unnecessary utter-mechanics change idea in awhile for the game, TBH. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
jakejekel
Night Breed Pack Spectrum Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 23:25:00 -
[70] - Quote
TL;DR other then first page. so sorry if it has been said, but
we need a way to change the corp wallet that the taxes go into.
also, an idea might be to allow us to anchor guns and e-war like at a pos? |
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1152
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 20:41:00 -
[71] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:All I have to say is CCP ripped away one successful business opportunity that I had going.
Even broke down and disbanded my Low Sec PI Corp - Bison - Placid PI.
Casual players don't have the time devotion to defend the near 'defenseless' POCO's.
THIS was seriously the worst, most unnecessary utter-mechanics change idea in awhile for the game, TBH.
1. Anything outside of Hisec is EVE's group play mode. Find someone willing to defend the POCOs for a reasonable fee (tax)
2. Deathstar POSes die all the time. Without a fleet, everything that's nailed down gets lit on fire.
3. Just because you can't adapt ... blah blah blah, adapt or die, etc. |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 21:41:00 -
[72] - Quote
I would really like some form of container that would fit in a cargohold that I could type in a certain number of m3 and it would create a stack of exactly that number of m3 of contents. Actually for that matter why don't we just have an option to split stacks by m3 (either in general or at the customs office)?
Using a calculator is OK but a bit time consuming especially when things are getting hot.
Actually a 10,000m3 Titanic Secure Container would probably be best (thought would quickly get used to expand hauler capacity if it offered a compression). |
Aries Darkstar
Hades' Vanguard
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 01:15:00 -
[73] - Quote
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
You need to be able to set CORP to INDIVIDUAL standings for tax rates. In 0.0 corp to corp is not an issue, but if you want to "rent out" better PI tax levels (which im trying to do) you NEED to be able to adjust PI tax to individuals, as whole corps will not always want to do PI in low sec.... |
Mesh Marillion
Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 01:35:00 -
[74] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
Haven't really played around it much.
Quote:2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
Yes, definitely. We see a lot of opportunities for fights coming from publicly visible timers or just from catching people shooting a poco. There is not a single week since their introduction where there hasn't been a conflict around pocos in the area we tend to keep tabs on.
Quote:3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
At least in low sec most pocos seem to be run by local corps, so i'd answer with a yes. It gives smaller corps an opportunity to stake a claim and to defend it. If if the big entities come and take the pocos down for the lulz as some said, they won't keep doing that (bit too much effort) and nobody will move bigger fleets around just for the sake of defending a poco thats worth less than 2 t2 fitted BS.
Quote:4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
It has become more dynamic probably, more player driven. Which is good i think.
Quote:5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office? We've had a couple of nice fights that originated from a conflict about the ownership of a poco. What makes them special is that you quite often get three- or fourways out of them because its pretty easy to notice the timer compared to lets say a pos timer.
Overall its a great feature that encourages people to work together and is pretty much spot on at least regarding risk vs income vs reward of defending it.
|
pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
259
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 08:46:00 -
[75] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:Hello and a happy new year!
We are getting back to work and this is high time to evaluate how the Player Owned Customs Office feature worked out and potentially address any rough edges. Needless to say, we have been monitoring the developments for any major issues, and several defects were fixed during the past month. With this thread we want to collect your impressions and learn how you are using the feature and how you believe it has impacted EVE.
Here are a few questions if you need help to get started. Please remember that constructive feedback is more likely to lead anywhere.
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
Best regards CCP Omen
I remember when CCP published the first blog about POCO you asked for feedback
you had a 90 page or so thread feedback where the overwhelming majority of people spoke out against the idea but you just didn't listen you just went ahead and introduced a very biased game mechanic that basicly locks out smaller corporations and newer players from PI You told us that it would improve player co operation and friendship , i am still convinced that you know nothing about the game or even less about economics and what competition in industry actually means
If this is CCP first step into forcing high sec dwellers into nulsec , , don't bother just nerf whole high sec to death now effect will be the same only second will have faster results end result is you CCP losing customers
I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Lara Dantreb
New Horizons
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 09:59:00 -
[76] - Quote
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
- PI Taxes are fine, market do adapt. 0.0 and lowsec taxes are varied, from 0 to 20% from my experience - 35.000 m3 of storage in the custom ofice is not enough since 1) it's destructible 2) taxes are expansive 3) it could be convenient to store preemptively stuff or to let materials accumulate in the POCO - Cooldown timers for the paperwork when importing/exporting materials is annoying, as timers for onlining stuff in POS were... - a corporate storage could be convenient...
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
-Yes
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
-Yes of course
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
- Yes it has become much more relevant, it was a very good idea to implement POCOs
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
- Not yet but I've read some good ones in these forums
6. Happy New Year too
----á-á Buying T2 ship bpos since 2005-á --- |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
346
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 10:04:00 -
[77] - Quote
pussnheels wrote: but you just didn't listen you just went ahead and introduced a very biased game mechanic that basicly locks out smaller corporations and newer players from PI You told us that it would improve player co operation and friendship , i am still convinced that you know nothing about the game or even less about economics and what competition in industry actually means
How exactly are smaller corps and new players locked out?
If it's the POCOs, I've yet to see a single lowsec office that's not open to the public. Most of them have rates of under 10%. So, just because you can't anchor and defend your own POCO, it doesn't mean you can't use someone else's. That's what the devs meant by co-operation, and it's what I'm seeing.
And, if you meant the taxes, the average for a harvest planet seem to be 3-400k a day. Compared to the setup costs of a few million, that's peanuts and will be easily recouped. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
180
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 10:14:00 -
[78] - Quote
Nyrak wrote: The second issue I noticed was how all these station fuels were going to stabilize into the eventual price per fuel block and wondered if I should push everything into that direction. Without the accessible means to gain these prints and make them perfect, in time I would loose ISK by waste of items. I understand the concept of the "haves" to the "haves not" and was not demanding any special treatment. But looking towards the future, I saw how it was going to be very difficult to keep pace in the play style I have been using (casual).
Be aware that you can buy pre-researched ME40 (perfect, no material loss) fuel block prints from contracts - there are people in EVE who have the spare research slots and do business in producing researched blueprint originals. For any small time production it is rarely cost-effective to do your own blueprint research (station slots are always full and research POS running costs are considerable if all you are looking to do is to research a few blueprints)
Perfectly researched fuel block BPO is about 15-25 million ISK (depends a bit on the day as to what the cheapest are going for, but usually under 20 mil) compared to bit under 10 million for unreseached one, this is a fairly small cost to pay in order to be able to produce POS fuel blocks and it is one-time investment which can be re-sold back to someone else via contracts if you no longer want to build fuel blocks. And yes, it could be a good market to be in if you already produce all the PI components - just buy the ice components off the market and manufacture blocks at some station. It will be a high volume market come 24th of January. It won't have massive margins (if blocks cost a lot more than components, POS runners just keep buying fuel components and manufacture the blocks themselves) but it is a way to sell your PI as a more refined finished good.
You would have to set up some spreadsheets and do the math carefully tho - the market is bound to be choppy early on and you wouldn't want to sell blocks below the cost of the materials required to produce them.
You could even go one stop further and train ice refining skills and get suitable hauling capacity and instead of buying isotopes, heavy water and liquid ozone, you could go and buy unrefined ice from ice miners. Then refine, add PI products, produce blocks...
Plenty of ways to do industrial operations in EVE, you just have to think a bit as to what to do yourself, what to "outsource" (buy on the market/contracts) and how to ensure that the final stuff you offload to the market leaves something "under the line" for your troubles.
Oh and a little tip; If you are unable to keep up with 0,01 ISK games, consider selling the finished product at a less traveled market hub. While Jita has by far the greatest trade volume, it also has many dedicated station traders that do nothing but fight 0,01 ISK games all day selling products that they bought using cheaper buy orders. While you may hate them when you are selling something on a sell order, they are also very nice to have whenever you are buying something off a sell order - without constant market price wars, prices you pay would be higher.
Heck, as a mass producer I usually just use the buy order price to determine profitability - meaning that I won't even consider manufacturing something unless I can just sell the finished goods to standing buy orders at a profit. That way I can completely ignore the 0,01 ISK games and just sell. The time saved can be used for something more productive.
(...and if what you are making isn't making a profit at all unless you use sell order and fight 0,01 ISK games, may I suggest that what you are making is offering too low profit margin and it may be time to look at something else...)
|
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
346
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 10:19:00 -
[79] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible? I nearly forgot, but there is one annoying bug with repairing customs offices (maybe other structures too). The shield HP on your target icon does not update when you rep, or at least not regularly. You have to shoot the CO to get an HP update.
So you will be repping for 10 minutes without any effect. Then someone shoots at the thing, and you see the HP jump up 10%. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
259
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 10:20:00 -
[80] - Quote
Jack Dant wrote:pussnheels wrote: but you just didn't listen you just went ahead and introduced a very biased game mechanic that basicly locks out smaller corporations and newer players from PI You told us that it would improve player co operation and friendship , i am still convinced that you know nothing about the game or even less about economics and what competition in industry actually means
How exactly are smaller corps and new players locked out? If it's the POCOs, I've yet to see a single lowsec office that's not open to the public. Most of them have rates of under 10%. So, just because you can't anchor and defend your own POCO, it doesn't mean you can't use someone else's. That's what the devs meant by co-operation, and it's what I'm seeing. And, if you meant the taxes, the average for a harvest planet seem to be 3-400k a day. Compared to the setup costs of a few million, that's peanuts and will be easily recouped.
3-400k a day from a average of 150 to 200 k a day thats 100% increase CCP devs are programmers not economist , did you had a look at fuel prices for a pos ?? no together with the upcoming hukageddon even a small pos will be almost unaffordable
and not only that just the whole concept is horrible and smells to favoritism towards larger alliaces and the small independent corporations are left in the cold and unable to compete in industry with the bigger ones Or are you one of those who is willing to sell your soul and give up everything you work for to join a larger alliance I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
|
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
180
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 10:34:00 -
[81] - Quote
If "small pos is unaffordable" you are not using the POS for anything productive.
Personally I more than cover the fuel bill of one small POS entirely through blueprint research and copying. Small POS costing about 90 mil to run per 30 days, a single battlecruiser blueprint being copied for BPCs (taking one copyslot of one laboratory) covers that much... granted, you first have to invest in a BPO and research it, but beyond that, it is fairly little effort to make ISK out of POS ownership.
Now if your POS is just a toy floating in space and it isn't doing anything that produces ISK, yeah, it is a drain on your wallet. Why keep such a POS around?
|
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
346
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 10:57:00 -
[82] - Quote
pussnheels wrote:3-400k a day from a average of 150 to 200 k a day thats 100% increase CCP devs are programmers not economist , did you had a look at fuel prices for a pos ?? no together with the upcoming hukageddon even a small pos will be almost unaffordable Fuel prices have gone up because of the increase in taxes and the stockpiling for fuel blocks. They are up anywhere from 15 to 30%, which more than compensates the tax increase, so PI is as profitable as ever. Why, then, do you say small corps are locked out?
Yes, towers have become a bit more expensive to run. But all of mine are still making a profit, buying fuel from the market.
By the way, it has to be one or the other. Either you are complaining about PI not being profitable, or fuel prices going up.
Quote:and not only that just the whole concept is horrible and smells to favoritism towards larger alliaces and the small independent corporations are left in the cold and unable to compete in industry with the bigger ones Or are you one of those who is willing to sell your soul and give up everything you work for to join a larger alliance Why are you unable to compete? People in large alliances are also paying taxes, to the alliance. Personally, my small, independent corporation, working together with a couple other small, independent corporations, is having a blast fighting over lowsec POCOs. For us, it has provided an entirely new aspect to lowsec gameplay. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
259
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 11:11:00 -
[83] - Quote
Jack Dant wrote:pussnheels wrote:3-400k a day from a average of 150 to 200 k a day thats 100% increase CCP devs are programmers not economist , did you had a look at fuel prices for a pos ?? no together with the upcoming hukageddon even a small pos will be almost unaffordable Fuel prices have gone up because of the increase in taxes and the stockpiling for fuel blocks. They are up anywhere from 15 to 30%, which more than compensates the tax increase, so PI is as profitable as ever. Why, then, do you say small corps are locked out? Yes, towers have become a bit more expensive to run. But all of mine are still making a profit, buying fuel from the market. By the way, it has to be one or the other. Either you are complaining about PI not being profitable, or fuel prices going up. Quote:and not only that just the whole concept is horrible and smells to favoritism towards larger alliaces and the small independent corporations are left in the cold and unable to compete in industry with the bigger ones Or are you one of those who is willing to sell your soul and give up everything you work for to join a larger alliance Why are you unable to compete? People in large alliances are also paying taxes, to the alliance. Personally, my small, independent corporation, working together with a couple other small, independent corporations, is having a blast fighting over lowsec POCOs. For us, it has provided an entirely new aspect to lowsec gameplay. you made a good point tho i stick with my opinion and views , POCO was unwanted and there was no need for them
Next thing CCP is going to claim that they now added a whole new dimension to FW by making the POCO bpc available only in FW and concord LP shops I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Dragon E
Solaris Holding The Ancients.
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 12:21:00 -
[84] - Quote
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible? - Raise the Taxes on Interbus and ad a fuel requirement for POCO's - Make Re-Inforcement cycle Strongtium bases. No re-fueling, no new Re-Inforcement timer. - Let people ad guns, for an additional fuel requirements. - Interbus Office not used by any player for 30 days should selfdestruct. No need to have them around.
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature? No. Because the POCO owner can run them remotely.
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations? Yes. many do PI as an extra income.
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE? Same.
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office? No.
Please ad destroyed/Reinforces POCOS to system wind where we also can see ships destroyd last 24 hours. This would ad attention and creaty more game dynamics. |
Dragon E
Solaris Holding The Ancients.
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 12:34:00 -
[85] - Quote
Miiikka wrote:Professor Alphane wrote:Don't think there has really been enough time for everything to settle into a pattern yet. What I would say is broken (well perhaps not broken but against the grain at least) is a couple of things. 1. You just handed on a gold plater null sec alliances a bonus 10% on there already larger share of PI profit. 2. Your system seems to try and encourage people to hold and defend property in low sec, something no-one is really going to undertake as the rest of the tools a null sec alliance have for these purposes aren't available. Discouraging people from taking that 'risk it for a biscuit route' and basically doing the oppossite of what you seem to have intended. 3. The overall effect therefore was a nerf to high sec ops and a buff for the already phenominally rich null sec alliances, plus added another complication for those who want to dip there toe in riskier ventures. All in all a nice idea, when implemented doing almost the complete opposite of what was intended, pretty much par for the course really. Just the way I see things of course your milage may vary. /edit- thanks for asking though Pretty much this. Most of the large Sov holding Alliances are tearing down the Interbus Offices and erecting their own, thus adding to their already substantial income stream. The Offices in lowsec have had some activity surrounding them, but are for the most part untouched. Small Corps who do not have the means to destroy/defend these offices are being shut out, by the added complication of increased charges for their members who carry out PI to offset the costs of towers etc. So, as predicted another additional income stream for large Alliances, another blow for the small corps/individuals trying to make a little profit out of PI. My 4 characters continued with PI for a week after this change was implimented to see how things went, but then I stopped them on all 20 planets. The higher initial charges, along with the reduced profit (which was not that much anyway) makes it not worth the time invested anymore. Its a shame, but not entirely unexpected.
Miika wrote: Pretty much this. Most of the large Sov holding Alliances are tearing down the Interbus Offices and erecting their own, thus adding to their already substantial income stream.
Have you looked at LOWSEC recently?? Nothing there support your theory. Tons of Interbus Offices ready to be replaced with POCOs.
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Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
180
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 13:50:00 -
[86] - Quote
Indeed. In the lowsec systems that I use (for other purposes) all POCOs are still Interbus. This is a downer for me as I could do some small time PI on the side but not at 17% tax rate (so I do it at my highsec "home" system under CONCORD 10% tax). Not doing enough PI to care about replacing the POCOs myself (too much effort and too much ISK required) or to travel to other systems where I otherwise have no productive business going on.
But hey, if someone else did replace them and allow usage at a competitive tax rate, I'd probably shift my PI stuff over to those lowsec systems that I constantly visit anyway for other purposes. "Competitive rate" in this case would be 10% or below. I might even pay 11-12% if I get some kind of "spacehonour word" from the POCO owner that the rate is going to stay put and the POCO is being defended so I don't end up with bunch of PI structures on a planet with no POCO (or with a POCO set at ripoff tax rate). I would have no problem paying all that export tax to the owner of the POCO. FREE ISK PRINTER! Look! Here!
I say there is plenty of market available for "POCO landlords" in lowsec. The biggest hurdle is probably to find some way to set it all up and advertise it to potential PI "bears" without attracting the attention of a Bigger Fish that might drop some caps to blow up the POCOs for "teh lulz".
I guess at this point the only practical way is to just set up some POCOs, do some own PI (at 0% rate for yourself, naturally) and set up a competitive tax rate for others and see if the "PI bear honeypot" brings people to the planets with your POCOs. It also helps if you don't try to shoot their haulers...
Perhaps EVE needs some kind of "search for POCOs by tax rate" style in-game way to browse and search planetary infrastructure in the region / in the universe. A way to set up infrastructure for others to use without making forum posts or other "noise" that might attract evil people. Naturally this is something someone could do by setting up a web service or something where people can post their "available for public" lowsec POCOs with tax rates etc. |
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 14:33:00 -
[87] - Quote
I personally like the idea of POCO's as something else that pilots can build and run themselves. It adds something more to the the world of New Eden. Although it does seem to be another buff for the nul-sec community.
I am not in favour of the massive hike in PI taxes. We were deceived initially by CCP into thinking the tax was going to be doubled. If it had been openly explained at the offset that tax would be increased by hundreds of percent as they have been that would have been more honest. BUT then you would have had another furore on the scale of the NEX Store debacle. With the relatively puny amounts of material that can be obtained by doing PI in high-sec i would say doubling the PI tax would have been fairer than the present situation.
Also the current PI tax in high-sec will prevent new pilots in New Eden from getting involved in Planetary Interaction while they stay in high sec to learn the game. |
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
184
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 15:27:00 -
[88] - Quote
Celgar Thurn wrote: We were deceived initially by CCP into thinking the tax was going to be doubled. If it had been openly explained at the offset that tax would be increased by hundreds of percent as they have been that would have been more honest.
This was CCP fail - they didn't realize that their initial plans would mean practical tax that was something like 1% - not worth setting up POCOs. So they at the last minute revised the taxable value of PI goods (while still doubling the taxes) and that caused bit of a double-whammy. It was unavoidable and needed - without it nobody would build POCOs as the benefit over the "17% interbus tax" would be in reality less than 2%.
Quote: Also the current PI tax in high-sec will prevent new pilots in New Eden from getting involved in Planetary Interaction while they stay in high sec to learn the game.
Nope. PI is still profitable even with the taxes. Do the math. In EVE you cannot avoid doing the math. Google Docs spreadsheets for the win.
|
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
346
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 15:28:00 -
[89] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Indeed. In the lowsec systems that I use (for other purposes) all POCOs are still Interbus. This is a downer for me as I could do some small time PI on the side but not at 17% tax rate (so I do it at my highsec "home" system under CONCORD 10% tax). The Interbus COs are a big deterrent to deploying your own POCOs, especially in busy lowsec (where other people would notice them). Look at Amamake, where all COs are still Interbus. The same applies to other hotspots. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 17:27:00 -
[90] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:Hello and a happy new year!
Here are a few questions if you need help to get started. Please remember that constructive feedback is more likely to lead anywhere.
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
Best regards CCP Omen
1. I think over all it works pretty well. PI is still profitable in high sec but now much more appealing in low/null
2. I have not seen much PVP as a result of the POCO's. definitely more fleet ops to clear the way for alliances to put up there own POCO's but the only POCO's I have seen fall were pirate targets in active low sec area's. Why put one there in the first place.
3.not really. even with high taxes it takes forever for a POCO to repay the costs to put it up. definitely more of a benefit to large corps/alliances that are not burdened by the costs.
4. No. PI is a requirement as it is the only real source now for needed components for manufacturing. low/null POCO's definitely have an advantage over high sec PI which is as it should be. But PI demand is still controlled by manufacturing and POS fuel demands.
5. NO but I do believe they were a big step in the right direction.
On a side note it does seem we need something more to increase the appeal of putting up a POCO. the profits alone do not seem to be enough as it takes so long to repay the investment that you will possibly lose your POCO before you even break even. Reducing the costs would not work as they would be even less worth defending. increasing the tax does not work as it would hurt the game economy to much. I thought it would be cool to be able to upgrade the POCO's. Have an upgraded POCO give bonuses to command center power grid ,CPU, and link capacity, even storage silo capacity. This would make them far more valuable and worth defending (to protect upgrades) increasing related PVP and POCO value without drastically increasing cost or taxes. |
|
Esunisen
Les Tueurs de Killer Une Pour Tous
61
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 19:02:00 -
[91] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible? Taxes are too expensive, but oh well, they always are, right ? Anyway, having to pay a fixed tax on a variable price item sounds wrong.
CCP Omen wrote:2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature? No idea. Probably significant in null sec since you can break your enemy's PI supply, or at least slow it down.
CCP Omen wrote:3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations? Small (tiny) corps can't destroy Interbus CO. I tried on Sisi with a Rattlesnake with heavy T2 drones + Manticore with torps + 5 Med T2 drones from Orca, gave up after like 2 hours, shield was at like 40%...
CCP Omen wrote:4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE? More revelant for big corps since they can put a POCO and have a tax free import/export for themselves. For people like me running their PI+POS alone, we got doomed. I stopped all PI and gonna shutdown my POS.
CCP Omen wrote:5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office? 90% chances i'm gonna quit the game since my gameplay is ruined.
|
ILeone
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 19:32:00 -
[92] - Quote
Posted this elsewhere, but its probably more relevant here :
We are a small corp and have so far put up 8 POCO's in 0.4 systems the oldest being around 4 weeks old, the newest 2 weeks.
The TOTAL income from all POCO's over that period of time has been 75m isk for an investment of close to 1 billion isk taking into account the time to take down the Interbus co's, ammo, replacing 2 destroyed co's and getting ganked while killing the Interbus co's.
All in all, its a pretty terrible return on investment.
Two suggestions :
- Some method of judging your income before you take down a CO. - Some method of attracting players to your planet.
And to the poster above, our 3 man corp takes down CO's in around an 90 mins with 3 x T3 battlecruisers with t2 blasters. |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 19:36:00 -
[93] - Quote
pussnheels wrote:CCP Omen wrote:Hello and a happy new year!
We are getting back to work and this is high time to evaluate how the Player Owned Customs Office feature worked out and potentially address any rough edges. Needless to say, we have been monitoring the developments for any major issues, and several defects were fixed during the past month. With this thread we want to collect your impressions and learn how you are using the feature and how you believe it has impacted EVE.
Here are a few questions if you need help to get started. Please remember that constructive feedback is more likely to lead anywhere.
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
Best regards CCP Omen I remember when CCP published the first blog about POCO you asked for feedback you had a 90 page or so thread feedback where the overwhelming majority of people spoke out against the idea but you just didn't listen you just went ahead and introduced a very biased game mechanic that basicly locks out smaller corporations and newer players from PI You told us that it would improve player co operation and friendship , i am still convinced that you know nothing about the game or even less about economics and what competition in industry actually means If this is CCP first step into forcing high sec dwellers into nulsec , , don't bother just nerf whole high sec to death now effect will be the same only second will have faster results end result is you CCP losing customers
I's just like to chime in on this. Low Sec mechanics actively discourage large scale player cooperation. Players who wish to develop the area cannot project force without sec hits eventually shutting them down (that and gate gun mechanics favor the aggressor not the defender). Pirate gangs don't generally care about their sec status, but also normally can't organize a large enough number of people to claim an area. The result of this is that you have the barbarians come through a blow up the POCOs looking for fights - and nobody rebuilds them. Eventually most low sec will have no COs and no POCO's making development there not worth it.
The benefits of POCO's go to players in WH and 0.0 space. I suppose organized infrastructure in low sec might arise from POCOs. I expect in the long term industry in low sec only makes sense as an exception, not a rule. |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
347
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 20:38:00 -
[94] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:I's just like to chime in on this. Low Sec mechanics actively discourage large scale player cooperation. Players who wish to develop the area cannot project force without sec hits eventually shutting them down (that and gate gun mechanics favor the aggressor not the defender). Pirate gangs don't generally care about their sec status, but also normally can't organize a large enough number of people to claim an area. The result of this is that you have the barbarians come through a blow up the POCOs looking for fights - and nobody rebuilds them. Eventually most low sec will have no COs and no POCO's making development there not worth it. Are you speaking from experience or theorycrafting? Because everywhere I've looked, it was the pirates putting up the POCOs and defending them. The last POCO I anchored has already been reinforced twice, giving us 2b worth of kills from attackers. It's the best bait ship 100 mil can buy.
There's a risk your scenario will become true. But the only thing it takes to avoid it is a better ROI on POCOs. If they paid for themselves in a month, instead of three, more people would risk deploying and trying to defend them.
PS. You may want to check the link in my sig if sec status mechanics annoy you. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Esunisen
Les Tueurs de Killer Une Pour Tous
61
|
Posted - 2012.01.10 13:26:00 -
[95] - Quote
ILeone wrote:And to the poster above, our 3 man corp takes down CO's in around an 90 mins with 3 x T3 battlecruisers with t2 blasters.
I can't do this, i don't have skills for any T2 large gun. Can't fly a thanatos either. |
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
192
|
Posted - 2012.01.10 13:53:00 -
[96] - Quote
Esunisen wrote:ILeone wrote:And to the poster above, our 3 man corp takes down CO's in around an 90 mins with 3 x T3 battlecruisers with t2 blasters. I can't do this, i don't have skills for any T2 large gun. Can't fly a thanatos either.
It is true that Tech 2 guns and carriers have better DPS than Tech 1 noob thingys. You do know that you can fix this with the skill queue and some time, right?
|
Denidil
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
254
|
Posted - 2012.01.10 15:26:00 -
[97] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
1) yes, the entire player owned system is crap 2) i don't know - i refused to engage in PI after the new system came out 3) absolutely not, not even a chance. the big corps and alliances just come in and clear them out if they want 4) it's become a serious inflation pressure on the cost of tech 2 items 5) no, because POCOs are not awesome. Bored in 0.0?-á reset all standings.
|
pmchem
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
190
|
Posted - 2012.01.10 16:12:00 -
[98] - Quote
Jack Dant wrote:Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Indeed. In the lowsec systems that I use (for other purposes) all POCOs are still Interbus. This is a downer for me as I could do some small time PI on the side but not at 17% tax rate (so I do it at my highsec "home" system under CONCORD 10% tax). The Interbus COs are a big deterrent to deploying your own POCOs, especially in busy lowsec (where other people would notice them). Look at Amamake, where all COs are still Interbus. The same applies to other hotspots.
Yeah, the Interbus COs need to have their HP drastically reduced or just be outright removed by CCP. I mention them as my "something broken" much earlier in this thread. They were a solution for a problem which no longer exists (ensuring continued PI supply and market stability when POCOs were first introduced).
Even one jump from goonswarm's capital, there are still dozens of Interbus COs remaining unshot because of the sheer effort needed to POCO-ize a constellation. |
Esunisen
Les Tueurs de Killer Une Pour Tous
61
|
Posted - 2012.01.10 17:53:00 -
[99] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:It is true that Tech 2 guns and carriers have better DPS than Tech 1 noob thingys. You do know that you can fix this with the skill queue and some time, right?
I don't even have gunnery V, but i can use heavy T2 drones, i always use drone boats. DPS isn't though to down the CO shield.
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:If POCOs were any more fragile than they are now, they would be constantly shot at for fun by bored pirates. Structures have to have enough HP to make them unfeasible to take down with just 1-2 pilots.
True for POCO, but Interbus CO are too painfull to kill |
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
193
|
Posted - 2012.01.10 18:25:00 -
[100] - Quote
Hmm, I do agree that it may be that Interbus thingies could be more fragile while player deployed POCOs could take bit more beating?
|
|
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
352
|
Posted - 2012.01.10 18:45:00 -
[101] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Hmm, I do agree that it may be that Interbus thingies could be more fragile while player deployed POCOs could take bit more beating? Player ones are close to perfect. More HP only raises the amount of people you need to shoot or rep them, and that hurts small corp involvement. If anything, I would support moving some of the shield HP to armor. Easier to reinforce, easier to repair, harder to kill.
As I said at the start of the thread, if you increase the command center launch capacity, you could just delete the Interbus COs. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1168
|
Posted - 2012.01.10 20:14:00 -
[102] - Quote
Esunisen wrote:Jarnis McPieksu wrote:It is true that Tech 2 guns and carriers have better DPS than Tech 1 noob thingys. You do know that you can fix this with the skill queue and some time, right? I don't even have gunnery V, but i can use heavy T2 drones, i always use drone boats. DPS isn't enough to down the CO shield.
A structure bashing domi costs ~80m, is insurable for ~40, and puts out ~900dps between it's rack of lasers and its drones. T1 (low meta) guns. Once you do your bashing, you can refit it into a repdomi, with 6 large shield reps running cap stably to help repair it (which takes forever with well more than 3 people, enjoy that)
Also, 3 people isn't a small corp, that's a me-and-my-alts-sized corp. |
Raven Ether
Republic University Minmatar Republic
101
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 11:30:00 -
[103] - Quote
The input may not contain HTML. FFS can't reply |
Matalino
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 23:13:00 -
[104] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible? I have not seen any significant problems.
CCP Omen wrote:2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature? I have not seen any change with my experience. However, I expect that others might have seen an increase.
CCP Omen wrote:3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations? The POCO in the low-sec constellation where I live have all been established by a 600-700 player alliance. From my experience, POCO's appear to be another cash cow for large alliances. There might be some new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations, but I have not seen any in my corner of low-sec.
CCP Omen wrote:4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE? There is a slight increase in relevance as corporations establish and defend passive income from POCO's.
CCP Omen wrote:5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office? Nope. It has been business as usual.
|
Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial Revival Of The Talocan Empire
431
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 03:12:00 -
[105] - Quote
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
No, not really.
I've cleared a number of systems now ... removing those accursed interbus invaders ... and installed our own offices.
For small groups (such as mine) the interbus installations are painfully tough, but that's prolly just me being greedy and impatient.
The reinforcement timer on the self-install guys is a bit ambiguous and out-of-sync with that of a POS tower.
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
Not that I have seen.
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
Yes. As a w-space denizen running a number of systems I'm wondering how to approach the eventual onselling of some of our systems.
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
I hate PI! It's the most tedious click-fest aspect of my eve-experience. Having said that, I have cleared several systems and installed my own customs offices and I do run PI from many planets.
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
Not yet.
OTOH: I love, love, love the corp-bookmark tab and wish it would accommodate more bookmarks.
We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Raven Ether
Republic University Minmatar Republic
101
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 11:30:00 -
[106] - Quote
Too expensive, make them cheaper. |
|
CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
148
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 13:53:00 -
[107] - Quote
I just wanted to post an update on what we are doing with your feedback.
DONE - Waiting for deployment (probably in January)
- Boost storage capacity of the "storage pin" to 12000 m3 from 5000 m3
- Increased the granularity of the standing check so that the standing of the user is checked on an individual and alliance level as well. The personal standing towards the owner corp takes precedence over the corp that in its turn takes precedence over alliance standing. Please keep in mind that it is still the owner corporation's standing that it is checked towards.
ON BACKLOG - things that we are planning to do that will be released in point releases
- Allow owner of Customs Office to set standing check on behalf of own Alliance
- Allow owner of Customs Office to choose which wallet taxes are paid to
IN INVESTIGATION - Things we aren't sure about but are considering for the future
- Remove the alliance only restriction on placing command centers in sov space
- Changes to the Jet Can
- Changes to the InterBus CO hp
Thank you for your feedback! Regards Omen Game Designer Team Pi |
|
Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
80
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 15:21:00 -
[108] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:I just wanted to post an update on what we are doing with your feedback. DONE - Waiting for deployment (probably in January)
- Boost storage capacity of the "storage pin" to 12000 m3 from 5000 m3
- Increased the granularity of the standing check so that the standing of the user is checked on an individual and alliance level as well. The personal standing towards the owner corp takes precedence over the corp that in its turn takes precedence over alliance standing. Please keep in mind that it is still the owner corporation's standing that it is checked towards.
ON BACKLOG - things that we are planning to do that will be released in point releases
- Allow owner of Customs Office to set standing check on behalf of own Alliance
- Allow owner of Customs Office to choose which wallet taxes are paid to
IN INVESTIGATION - Things we aren't sure about but are considering for the future
- Remove the alliance only restriction on placing command centers in sov space
- Changes to the Jet Can
- Changes to the InterBus CO hp
Thank you for your feedback! Regards Omen
Nice!
Changes to the InterBus CO hp <--- prio 1 for this please
Questions:
Can you allow the possibility to destroy materials in the storage or in the launch pad that we do not want to export or launch? Can you allow people to see in the inventory window the materials people have in POCOs all over Eve like we see it today for Stations? Allow us to change characters of the same account without the need to logout and put the password again. |
Gempei
Siberian Khatru. Shadow Operations.
25
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 15:29:00 -
[109] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote: Changes to the InterBus CO hp this, shooting npc structures is boring
|
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
604
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 15:34:00 -
[110] - Quote
Good change to the storage PIN, lowering its PG cost too by about 1/3 or even 1/2 would still be needed to bring it in line with its purpose as "better storage then the LP". |
|
pmchem
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
192
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 15:39:00 -
[111] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:IN INVESTIGATION - Things we aren't sure about but are considering for the future
- Changes to the InterBus CO hp
Cutting their HP in half would be 5 minutes of effort for 25 pages of praise on patch day. No game-breaking side effects. Your call. |
KelShanique TiAndre JaLarion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 15:54:00 -
[112] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:
Changes to the InterBus CO hp
Yeah Buddy - Dj Pauly D |
charlene charlottes
Kriegsmarinewerft Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 15:54:00 -
[113] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:
- Changes to the InterBus CO hp
please do this NOW. InterBus CO should be replaced as fast as possible by players to encourage player interaction, no reason for them to be that sturdy. Maybe reduce the current hp to 10%. The first rush is over, make it easy now please. |
Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
81
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 15:55:00 -
[114] - Quote
One more thing:
Can you drag someone that works in the API and ask if the POCOs and PI information will ever be available, and if the answer is yes, when can we expect it to be ready for us to access?
Corps:
- POCOs List -> location, taxes, standingsGǪ
Players:
- Command Centers List -> location, number of structures in planet, POCOs taxes applied to us in each planet
- For each Command Center -> List of structures in each planet
- Information on each structure ->
- Extractors: number of heads, program status (running/stopped), program length, expect end time of program and the summary information like the total resource yield and average yield
- Industrial facilities: schematic in use, status (running/stopped)
- Silos and Spaceports: contents stored, space available
Command centers: contents stored, space available, cpu and power usageGǪ
Allow us to change characters of the same account without the need to logout and put the password again. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
503
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 18:55:00 -
[115] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:I just wanted to post an update on what we are doing with your feedback. DONE - Waiting for deployment (probably in January)
- Boost storage capacity of the "storage pin" to 12000 m3 from 5000 m3
- Increased the granularity of the standing check so that the standing of the user is checked on an individual and alliance level as well. The personal standing towards the owner corp takes precedence over the corp that in its turn takes precedence over alliance standing. Please keep in mind that it is still the owner corporation's standing that it is checked towards.
ON BACKLOG - things that we are planning to do that will be released in point releases
- Allow owner of Customs Office to set standing check on behalf of own Alliance
- Allow owner of Customs Office to choose which wallet taxes are paid to
IN INVESTIGATION - Things we aren't sure about but are considering for the future
- Remove the alliance only restriction on placing command centers in sov space
- Changes to the Jet Can
- Changes to the InterBus CO hp
Thank you for your feedback! Regards Omen no updated notifications for CO users? a new bounty system for eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Strawberry Fields
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.13 00:58:00 -
[116] - Quote
Nthing my support for a reduction in interbus HP. No one has any stake in these, no one really wants them, as far as I know it is CCP's intent for PI to be a totally player owned and run section of the economy. So help us lose the interbus pocos. For large alliances its a pain in the backside to knock down hundreds and hundreds of them, for small corps its a pain to knock down a few because they don't have the firepower. |
discordigant
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.13 04:40:00 -
[117] - Quote
Unforgiven Storm wrote:One more thing: Can you drag someone that works in the API and ask if the POCOs and PI information will ever be available, and if the answer is yes, when can we expect it to be ready for us to access? Corps:
- POCOs List -> location, taxes, standingsGǪ
Players:
- Command Centers List -> location, number of structures in planet, POCOs taxes applied to us in each planet
- For each Command Center -> List of structures in each planet
- Information on each structure ->
- Extractors: number of heads, program status (running/stopped), program length, expect end time of program and the summary information like the total resource yield and average yield
- Industrial facilities: schematic in use, status (running/stopped)
- Silos and Spaceports: contents stored, space available
Command centers: contents stored, space available, cpu and power usageGǪ
A goon i can finally agree with, err umm this can't be good.
Posted in a goon thread!!!!! |
No La
Greased Lightning Engineering
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.13 09:32:00 -
[118] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:Good change to the storage PIN, lowering its PG cost too by about 1/3 or even 1/2 would still be needed to bring it in line with its purpose as "better storage then the LP".
And decreasing th Interbus HP
I would also like to see more usage of P4 materials. There just isn't enough demand for P4's.
|
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
200
|
Posted - 2012.01.13 09:38:00 -
[119] - Quote
No La wrote:Scrapyard Bob wrote:Good change to the storage PIN, lowering its PG cost too by about 1/3 or even 1/2 would still be needed to bring it in line with its purpose as "better storage then the LP". And decreasing th Interbus HP I would also like to see more usage of P4 materials. There just isn't enough demand for P4's.
So extend your manufacturing chain; manufacture items that use P4s and sell them? |
No La
Greased Lightning Engineering
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.13 10:10:00 -
[120] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:No La wrote:Scrapyard Bob wrote:Good change to the storage PIN, lowering its PG cost too by about 1/3 or even 1/2 would still be needed to bring it in line with its purpose as "better storage then the LP". And decreasing th Interbus HP I would also like to see more usage of P4 materials. There just isn't enough demand for P4's. So extend your manufacturing chain; manufacture items that use P4s and sell them?
I'm guessing the demand for those items is low as well. Look at Sterile Conduits, they are used in POS modules and Capital stuff mostly. Apparently not enough POS's get destroyed
As it is now, I could (with 3 chars) completely crash the sterile conduit market if i wanted to.
I don't know how many people produce P4's, but it only takes a few to saturate the market. One character with 6 factory planets can produce 864 Sterile Conduits a day. With an average turnover of about 5000 a day in Jita, that Char produces 17 percent of the market.
I'm not saying that would be practical, but the point is that it doesn't take a lot of people doing PI to kill the P4 market. |
|
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
356
|
Posted - 2012.01.13 10:20:00 -
[121] - Quote
No La wrote:I don't know how many people produce P4's, but it only takes a few to saturate the market. One character with 6 factory planets can produce 864 Sterile Conduits a day. With an average turnover of about 5000 a day in Jita, that Char produces 17 percent of the market.
I'm not saying that would be practical, but the point is that it doesn't take a lot of people doing PI to kill the P4 market. And a single character could crash the market for 2-3 POS modules. POS guns and ewar sell 50-100 units a day, and each line produces 10-20 units in that time (times 10 lines per char). What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
606
|
Posted - 2012.01.13 14:26:00 -
[122] - Quote
PI items really need to be added to the manuf needs of any newly introduced T2 & above item. And ideally with a broader selection then the handful which are used currently in T2 production.
|
MarlboroRedFT
YA SQUAD GREATER ITAMO MAFIA
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.14 11:21:00 -
[123] - Quote
6. anything else about custom offices Ever since the patch, i keep getting stuck on the custom offices when trying to warp to the next custom office in the system. Have to disengage warp, fly away from the custom office at hauler speed, then warp to the next one. (basically doulbled the total time spent doing PI in a system) |
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
207
|
Posted - 2012.01.14 11:42:00 -
[124] - Quote
I wouldn't be too shocked if CCP plan is to use P4s for Dust-related stuff. Planets need to be valuable to be cared about (currently they are not) and one way could be to make P4s very much in demand. Well, that and otherwise modify PI in some way that causes you to care on which planet you do PI (customs offices are, I guess, a start)
However, risk is that such changes could drive up POS running costs to the moon unless a lot of tweaks are made. Possible, but this being CCP I'm always bit wary of anything like this.
|
Xenuria
Marcabian 5th Invasion Fleet
145
|
Posted - 2012.01.14 18:28:00 -
[125] - Quote
I personally feel that the Standings a player has with the corporation that owns the office should effect the tax rate.
For example...
I do PI in high sec and I have a 10.00 Federation Navy Standing. I should be able to pay 0% tax on any office owned or operated by Federation Navy.
|
Nyrak
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.14 19:00:00 -
[126] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:I personally feel that the Standings a player has with the corporation that owns the office should effect the tax rate.
Unless I am mistaken, as a high security planet farmer, haven't you noticed that all the floating containers are owned by Concord and no corporations? |
Nyrak
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.14 19:15:00 -
[127] - Quote
Re: Jarnis McPieksu
Thanks for the various pieces of advice in post #78! Now I have some ideas to develop my future game. |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
56
|
Posted - 2012.01.15 12:09:00 -
[128] - Quote
Feedback from low sec militia pilot:
1. Interbus customs offices are an annoying time sink to kill. No pvp has really been generated killing them other than perhaps on day 1 or 2 after the patch.
2. PI is much less efficient/profitable without using a POCO which is annoying to all PI users since now unless
3. I'm glad I had friends to help me take one down over the space of a few hours. No pvp came of it, it was just more boring structure shooting THAT WE TOLD YOU WE HATE ABOUT POS. So thanks!
4. In militia if the enemy attacks/reinforces your POCO you can just transfer it to an alt corp in the enemy militia to stop them destroying it (without standing hit)....Which is really lame.
5. Alterable tax levels work surprisingly well I've noticed as some random red box took up PI at my POCO and it nets me a few mil each big export every few days. I was very surprised they used it, but I guess it is still cheaper than Interbus.
6. They badly need a corporate hangar, or the ability to host corporate contracts from peoples personal hangars at the POCO. I can only imagine the lack of this was a ******** oversight since they are CORPORATE structures. |
Gustavus Adolphus
Croatoan Enterprises The Silent One's
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.15 13:08:00 -
[129] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:I just wanted to post an update on what we are doing with your feedback. DONE - Waiting for deployment (probably in January)
- Boost storage capacity of the "storage pin" to 12000 m3 from 5000 m3
- Increased the granularity of the standing check so that the standing of the user is checked on an individual and alliance level as well. The personal standing towards the owner corp takes precedence over the corp that in its turn takes precedence over alliance standing. Please keep in mind that it is still the owner corporation's standing that it is checked towards.
ON BACKLOG - things that we are planning to do that will be released in point releases
- Allow owner of Customs Office to set standing check on behalf of own Alliance
- Allow owner of Customs Office to choose which wallet taxes are paid to
IN INVESTIGATION - Things we aren't sure about but are considering for the future
- Remove the alliance only restriction on placing command centers in sov space
- Changes to the Jet Can
- Changes to the InterBus CO hp
Thank you for your feedback! Regards Omen
WOW, what a FAIL of epic proportions, the hits just keep on coming. No wait, come to think of it, please just remove all the InterBus COs, why really worry about the casual player, Mega Corp PvP is the only way to go (please note the sarcasm). |
Miyamato
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.15 13:25:00 -
[130] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:I personally feel that the Standings a player has with the corporation that owns the office should effect the tax rate.
For example...
I do PI in high sec and I have a 10.00 Federation Navy Standing. I should be able to pay 0% tax on any office owned or operated by Federation Navy.
Yes, yes and more yes on this.
The current taxes on exportation is killing my early profits in PI. I am a new player so I basically have my entire forture in PI ( mainly because with a family, a 1 year old and a job, i do not have much time for anything too time consuming ) and manufactoring. PI could be a good profit maker but I recently moved 365 biocells out of my PI and it cost me 650k just to export the material. Add to that the other material I exported, it was ridiculous.
Better standing with the faction would be great if it helped with Taxes. Maybe not to 0% but perhaps at the highest standing you get a 5% tax break or something. Good thought anyway. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
224
|
Posted - 2012.01.15 13:27:00 -
[131] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:no updated notifications for CO users?
This is on the investigation list as well. CCP Nullarbor | Exotic Dancer |
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Omar Ser-Amon
Interstellar Ministeries United Homeworlds
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.15 15:31:00 -
[132] - Quote
I'm a fairly new player, I enjoy exploration and I'm interested in trying PI aswell.
I was entering a wormhole one day and I was thinking to myself that now I'm somewhere very far away from all the discovered / civilized world. And then I saw that at each single one of these barren, unforsaken planets, there is already a fully fitted customs office :)
Maybe it would be possible that you have to contact/ask Interbus to set these up, rather then putting them there by default? (If you don't want to / cannot build one yourself) This would increase the 'emptiness' of space and would be a bit more... realistic, if you understand what I mean.
In the meanwhile, we can be sure that even in outer space, you can always be sure about 2 things: death and proper customs administration. |
Rixiu
North Star Networks The Kadeshi
70
|
Posted - 2012.01.15 17:39:00 -
[133] - Quote
Omar Ser-Amon wrote:I'm a fairly new player, I enjoy exploration and I'm interested in trying PI aswell.
I was entering a wormhole one day and I was thinking to myself that now I'm somewhere very far away from all the discovered / civilized world. And then I saw that at each single one of these barren, unforsaken planets, there is already a fully fitted customs office :)
Maybe it would be possible that you have to contact/ask Interbus to set these up, rather then putting them there by default? (If you don't want to / cannot build one yourself) This would increase the 'emptiness' of space and would be a bit more... realistic, if you understand what I mean.
In the meanwhile, we can be sure that even in outer space, you can always be sure about 2 things: death and proper customs administration.
You have a good point, also having the WH-ones being the same size as the ones in the largest empite- PI hub is just silly, POCOS could use more diversity. |
Koen L
Galactic Defence Consortium United Pod Service
12
|
Posted - 2012.01.16 14:49:00 -
[134] - Quote
I dont want repeat all what has been already said, most of that was good for me, too.
IMHO what is crippled is that PI is an individual game, it should be a corp or alliance game. There should be a market ON the planet where you can sell and buy stuff from other players and you should have a storage for your PI which you want to give to your corp mates WITHOUT exporting it up. So this would decrease the costs of Importing and Exporting plus would make PI a Team Game.
I also would like to setup a mail once extractors are depleted or storage is full. Forwarding mails to your PI Leader Officer would be awsome. At least in 0.0 space it would make sense to fortify Pocos so that they arent that easy to kill. Let us be able to anchor some guns or hardeners plus a shield, something like Pos have, and of course this then should need some fuel, too.
I am also really curious about what DUST will do with PI. GÖ½ When your ship gets blown to bits GÖ¬ GÖ½ And you lose your Faction fits GÖ¬ \Gÿ+/ Don't worry GÖ¬ GÖ½ GÖ¬ GÖ½ GÖ½ GÖ¬ GÖ½ GÖ¬ Be Happy \Gÿ+/ |
pmchem
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
194
|
Posted - 2012.01.16 16:36:00 -
[135] - Quote
Miyamato wrote: The current taxes on exportation is killing my early profits in PI. I am a new player so I basically have my entire forture in PI ( mainly because with a family, a 1 year old and a job, i do not have much time for anything too time consuming ) and manufactoring. PI could be a good profit maker but I recently moved 365 biocells out of my PI and it cost me 650k just to export the material. Add to that the other material I exported, it was ridiculous.
Better standing with the faction would be great if it helped with Taxes. Maybe not to 0% but perhaps at the highest standing you get a 5% tax break or something. Good thought anyway.
Smells like an alt post of a greedy highsec carebear, perhaps your 3rd account dedicated solely to PI? Asking for standings so you can plex more accounts for minimal time investment and no interaction with other players?
Otherwise you surely noticed that the amount you sold your products for was much, much larger than the taxes paid, right? So taxes can't be "killing" you? |
Thawed Corpse
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 20:05:00 -
[136] - Quote
My two cents as a carebear who risked being destroyed daily to operate PI in nullsec before the addition of POCOs is this:
The changes have pretty much forced me to choose to join a large alliance. To join a small alliance is to place your PI assets into a setup where they really cannot be defended. So now all of nullsec basically belongs to whichever large alliance puts up their POCOs first.
If the POCO were easier to destroy, then no one would want to put them up. But by making the POCO too hard to destroy, then only a large alliance can cause the possession of planets to essentially change hands.
So now we have a situation where only large alliances control everything in nullsec (including unclaimable nullsec). This hardly seems the right way to encourage more small operators to move into nullsec. The net effect of adding POCOs in their present form has been to eliminate the remaining unclaimed nullsec, and effectively make it claimable; since only large alliances and corps can put up and defend POCOs.
I'd like to form up my own corp and put up my own POCO, but I know it would be just a matter of time before some large alliance stomps on my POCO and my large investment was wasted.
______________________
Two things could improve this situation. 1) Make POCO a lot cheaper to produce, and a lot easier to destroy. 2) Make it a lot easier to use launches to get products from planet surfaces (and avoid paying taxes) by putting a bigger flat fee on launches to account for costs of launch, and make those launches carry much larger payloads. Then the small operators could still operate PI where ever they wished, without having to belong to a giant alliance. |
Sutskop
PILSGESCHWADER Monkey Circus
39
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 13:18:00 -
[137] - Quote
Current annoyances:
- Bumping into the office when trying to leave is quite common now with slower haulers. This was not the case before. - Office window sometimes closes when confirming a move from a launchpad. This is new too. - Dragging items from the launchpad to the office and then dropping items into the office undos the first move. Why is that?
Overall I do think that the player owned nature improves conflict and thus PVP. At least it did in lowsec :) |
Droxlyn
TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate
44
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 16:06:00 -
[138] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote: Boost storage capacity of the "storage pin" to 12000 m3 from 5000 m3
This is a great thing. Some notes: An elite Command Center can have 20 Advanced Industrial Facility, 3 space ports, and 3 Storage pins. However, that leaves 7 AIFs per port/storage pair except one. Could it be adjusted so that 21 AIFs could fit and have a balanced burn? (94 hours between fill-ups) My current setup is 20 AIFs and 4 space ports. (65 hours between fill-ups)
The Expedited transfer cool-down is oppressive enough that for a factory planet, you cannot have more storage pins than space ports. If you do, you have to schedule fill-ups for the various storage pins at very odd intervals. The expedited transfer limit will also prevent filling the full 12k at once. (But the size is a boon to extraction planets.)
Could automatic expedited transfers be set up, so I can drop the contents of a storage pin into a space port and have it just move on its own? With the 4 space-port configuration, I don't have to visit the planet mode at all to get my production going, I just fill each up with the correct 26k p1 material and move on.
Could we rename spaceports, I'd love to label them like "Silicon 1" instead of XY-123? |
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 16:52:00 -
[139] - Quote
What's broken? The whole new concept. PI was fun, to a point. It was not a huge money maker, but it was fun smuggling my PI products out of low sec for sale in high sec. As it is now, the few PI people in my circles have simply stopped doing PI due to POCO changes.
The small fry have been iced out of PI which I think is a prefectly stupid idea. PI was started with realatively easy training requirements so new players could get involved (and here is the important part) and make some profits. The costs now do not allow any new players to utilize PI as an income source. I'm sure there are those who say you can make ISK from PI as a new player. Sure, but there are FAR better ways to spend your time and ISK with FAR better returns. PI is no longer a good choice if you have limited resources.
So I repeat, with the POCO changes, PI has been taken out of reach for new players and rendered unprofitable for other small fry. I don't see how this is a good thing at all. And frankly, this is just another way of losing newplayers and/or scaring off potentially new players. |
Droxlyn
TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate
44
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 20:11:00 -
[140] - Quote
The utility of the Command Center PIN itself is generally ignored. Consider helping by increasing their storage capacity and allowing greater export quantities: Basic Command Center: 500 m3 (same) Limited Command Center: 1,000 m3 Standard Command Center: 5,000 m3 Improved Command Center: 7,500 m3 Advanced Command Center: 10,000 m3 Elite Command Center: 12,500 m3
Consider boosting the Storage pin from the proposed 12,000 to 12,500 to make it an even 2.5 times bigger than it was.
Allowing larger capacities at the Command Center would allow you to evacuate a planet that has lost its POCO or possibly a lower "Tax" rate if the POCO is too high. (I don't know if the launch cost rate is based off of the POCO tax rate or the INTERBUS rate or completely independent.) |
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Mary Mercer
King Wholesaling
45
|
Posted - 2012.01.19 01:34:00 -
[141] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:Hello and a happy new year!
We are getting back to work and this is high time to evaluate how the Player Owned Customs Office feature worked out and potentially address any rough edges. Needless to say, we have been monitoring the developments for any major issues, and several defects were fixed during the past month. With this thread we want to collect your impressions and learn how you are using the feature and how you believe it has impacted EVE.
Here are a few questions if you need help to get started. Please remember that constructive feedback is more likely to lead anywhere.
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
Best regards CCP Omen
1.... Give us some weapons. Nothing major, but we should be able to upgrade these so customers can be protected from single target frigs and crap while doing pi deliver and drops. Maybe a single gun or two capability with about the same strength as gate guns, perhaps a little better. Nothing serious just a single or double frig pirate deterrence. Can't make it over powered.. but yeah.. upgradable to something like that would be slick.
Also, not sure if it's fixed but it would not allow a tax rate of 0.0. Needs to be fixed if it hasn't.
2. Some people have used it as a contention area in FW, but in reality I don't think it's caused major pvp engagements to increase.
3. only by the good graces of the big guys.. Which is very sad actually. Any large alliance wants to come in and take over a pi office and it can. Since there is no on-going maintenance there is no reason not to just hord a ton of planets. Small alliances/corps are not going to shoot down the goons offices for fear of major retaliation (an example). If the offices required fuel (say monthly like a pos) even a very small amount it would mean that they have to be upkept and would further make large groups disinterested in owning massive amounts of them.
4. It's used in some TII production, and pos's.. interest change from the offices themselves I don't think will matter. PI has gone up in price quite a bit, but that was expected I guess.
5. Nope. I think they were implicated as a complete passive income type deal for larger groups. It's silly that they don't require monthly maintenance. One alliance could literally take over an entire constellation without ever visiting the planet again.... That's silly. |
Garr Earthbender
Quantum Cats Syndicate
32
|
Posted - 2012.01.19 01:42:00 -
[142] - Quote
5. I've had only 1 [strike]good[/strike] fight over a POCO, and we ended up on the losing side. BIG TIME. Pirates did what they do best and waited till most people went to bed thinking nothing was incoming. Then they struck and took down a carrier. Sucked. Still, it's memorable and we won't be making that mistake again. |
Via Mortificare
Useful Implements Inc
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.19 14:19:00 -
[143] - Quote
It's absurdly complicated.
First of all it's a solo job. PI is not something you do on corp or alliance level. To get a corp op to shoot POCOs has proven to be impossible, and many dreads have been lost when people are forced to do it themselves (don't start a discussion about undocking a dread solo, it's not important).
In the start I would have had to invest over three billion just for the blueprints I need, now the price is about one billion. For just the blueprints for my production chains. Near-maximized skills on three toons, that's one planet for each raw material and three production planets.
As for the earlier "clicking" change, the idea was good and the implementation was horrible. To optimize production you now have to manually move each god damned extractor. Clicking has quadrupled, unless you don't care about your output at all.
In short, it's a corp or alliance level fix for a business that is done by individuals [yes, my main toons are in a big alliance]. I wish it wasn't an emoragequit post, but since I lived in NPC space I was practically forced to either stop doing PI (adapt, find other ways to get ISK) or move (quit alliance and everyone I've played with for years what's the point), and neither was an option so I just put EVE on hold, waiting for Diablo 3.
As for the UI improvements on customs offices and pads: Great job. |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 18:44:00 -
[144] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote: 1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
PI taxes are brutal, which no doubt encourages people to look to setup their own POCO's. Which at first i was pretty against, but i can see now that its creating another interesting avenue for people to explore, though i still think that this has mostly to do with Dust. The only issue i have is the excessive time it takes to destroy interbus custom offices. As this is likely what ccp wants from these changes, why not make it quicker and easier?
On a side note, IMPROVE THE SILOS! Only 5k? Makes it completely useless. Everyone uses spaceports instead!
CCP Omen wrote: 2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
Though personally i've not experienced this, i'm sure that it will lead to more pvp. POCO's are going to be giant floating bait, even more so considering they're relatively defenceless. Only larger alliances will have the ability to effectively defend many POCO's, and thus they'll be the ones to dominate it in low-sec.
CCP Omen wrote: 3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
Yes and no. Absolute no for low-sec and null, as only alliances will have the manpower and activity to defend their POCO's. Small corporations might find themselves being baited into defending their assets only to find "its a trap!". Though i would say that in wh space, it can prove to be a benifit, as the time it takes to take down a POCO is quite large, and thus not many fleets could be bothered to stay in a single wh for the extended periods required. Unless, of course, they have something against the corp, or are looking to take that wh from them. So perhaps for dedicated PI corps that feel they've been shafted by the changes, time to move to wh space!
Most of all though, small corporations can't even take them down! They require alot of shooty-shooty and time to do so, and many small corps won't be able to achieve this.
Though, individuals that used to make a quiet bit is isk from PI have been effected the worst. Completely screwed i'd say.
CCP Omen wrote: 4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
I guess this depends on what kind of player you are. PvP types and pirates are always going to slate PI, but industrialists can and do make alot of isk from it. With your own POCO, PI materials can be effectively free! Who can say 100% profit is a bad thing? Lots of other people were moaning about POS fuel prices changing, but im sure in time that will stablize again, if it hasn't already.
Personally, i'd say that the changes have made it more relevant, as people are now being forced to consider it more than before.
CCP Omen wrote: 5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
None i'd like to admit. |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
382
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 23:36:00 -
[145] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:Though, individuals that used to make a quiet bit of isk from PI have been effected the worst. Completely screwed i'd say. Im confused why people keep saying this. The prices of every PI item have gone up based on the highsec taxes. Even the lowest priced P1 items are up more than 50 isk/u compared to september prices. I have yet to see a lowsec POCO that didn't allow public access. And I have seen exactly one that had a tax rate above interbus, with most of them in the 5-10% range.
So why have individuals been screwed? What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Nekopyat
Nee-Co
16
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 01:50:00 -
[146] - Quote
Mary Mercer wrote: 1.... Give us some weapons. Nothing major, but we should be able to upgrade these so customers can be protected from single target frigs and crap while doing pi deliver and drops. Maybe a single gun or two capability with about the same strength as gate guns, perhaps a little better. Nothing serious just a single or double frig pirate deterrence. Can't make it over powered.. but yeah.. upgradable to something like that would be slick.
I would go one step further.
Something I have always found kinda out of sync in EvE is how NPCs can put up towers anywhere while players can only place them around moons. Here is an opportunity to introduce a new ancor point, planets, then allow POCOs to either be free standing or associated with a tower, which brings along all those defenses. |
Ultima Forsan
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 02:14:00 -
[147] - Quote
I finally found a use for Alt Slots. Just before the changes I started simple one planet PI with my 2 mains. I mostly forgot to re-start the extractors, and let the storage overflow.
WIth the changes, I took another look at PI. Finally, a reason to use the alt slots. I trained them up, dropped them in a WH, and figured I'd start replacing customs offices starting with the p4 planet and work backwards through biggest producers.
Only Problem, is zero chance of getting through the 17 million ehp.
I want my 2 months back! I wasted my time with this. Paying the full tax 2.5 times makes PI useless unless you can get the customs office down.
Any ideas on how to low skill siege of customs office? I could put 3 pilots on it. Maybe smartbombers? -={Ultima Forsan}=- |
Nekopyat
Nee-Co
16
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 03:37:00 -
[148] - Quote
Ultima Forsan wrote: Any ideas on how to low skill siege of customs office? I could put 3 pilots on it. Maybe smartbombers?
3 Ammar battleships with pulses would probably do the trick. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1255
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 04:11:00 -
[149] - Quote
Nekopyat wrote:Ultima Forsan wrote: Any ideas on how to low skill siege of customs office? I could put 3 pilots on it. Maybe smartbombers?
3 Ammar battleships with pulses would probably do the trick.
3x Domis with Pulse lasers and either heavies or rigged for sentries. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 14:08:00 -
[150] - Quote
Jack Dant wrote:Xen Solarus wrote:Though, individuals that used to make a quiet bit of isk from PI have been effected the worst. Completely screwed i'd say. Im confused why people keep saying this. The prices of every PI item have gone up based on the highsec taxes. Even the lowest priced P1 items are up more than 50 isk/u compared to september prices. I have yet to see a lowsec POCO that didn't allow public access. And I have seen exactly one that had a tax rate above interbus, with most of them in the 5-10% range. So why have individuals been screwed?
Simple really, the new system is heavily in the favour of big corps and alliances. They're going to be the ones that dominate the POCO's in low sec. Where before individuals could nip in and out for their PI stuff, now they're having to rethink all their plans. Finding one without crazy tax rates for a start, as well as the fact that any planets they setup could find the tax changed at anytime.
The only option left is doing it in high, where the planet resources are crap, and the interbus taxes are mental. Not that i'm saying they won't be able to make a profit, it just won't be anywhere near as much as it used to be.
You also have to consider the increased on-going price of PI now. I have many characters doing it, and the daily cost is quite staggering. I can spend like 100mill a day easily just on taxes, and thats before i've moved them anywhere. And thats assuming as well that you're the sort of player that makes PI stuff to just sell immediately on the market. Some of us like to make POS structures.
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Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
383
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 15:23:00 -
[151] - Quote
Quote:Simple really, the new system is heavily in the favour of big corps and alliances. They're going to be the ones that dominate the POCO's in low sec. Where before individuals could nip in and out for their PI stuff, now they're having to rethink all their plans. Finding one without crazy tax rates for a start, as well as the fact that any planets they setup could find the tax changed at anytime. You speak in the future tense, of a feature that has been deployed for 2 months now. Have you checked how is it working on TQ? I repeat again. I haven't found a single lowsec POCO closed to the public. In a quick check today, only one system had a tax over highsec levels (20% in Lantorn). Entire constellations in Heimatar and Molden Heath are at tax levels from 5% to 10%. In particular, the russians in Istodard have POCOed their entire constellation at 5% (they just joined an alliance, but they are a 30 man corp, hardly "big").
The risk of having the tax changed? How much is that? Setting up a colony costs under 10 mil. You can make that back in a week of unchanged tax. Besides, it doesn't happen all that often, especially to higher taxes.
Quote:The only option left is doing it in high, where the planet resources are crap, and the interbus taxes are mental. Not that i'm saying they won't be able to make a profit, it just won't be anywhere near as much as it used to be. The customers at my POCOs disagree that's "the only option". But how much has profit changed from before crucible? Take P1 harvesting as a base. Bacteria, the cheapest P1 right now, sold for around 100 isk/unit back in september (before the PI devblogs started affecting the market). All of that was profit, since taxes were negligible. Right now, the average is about 180 isk/u, with 50 isk/u of highsec tax. So profits actually went up by 30%. The more expensive P1s have gone up even more, in some cases even doubling their price.
So why are they not making "anywhere near as much"?
Quote:You also have to consider the increased on-going price of PI now. I have many characters doing it, and the daily cost is quite staggering. I can spend like 100mill a day easily just on taxes, and thats before i've moved them anywhere. And thats assuming as well that you're the sort of player that makes PI stuff to just sell immediately on the market. Some of us like to make POS structures. Well, yes, you are now required to have some starting capital for PI. But you can only reach those 100mil/day if you are talking about factory planets. And compared to the capital needed for any other industry, it's pretty low. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
bilingi
Ghosts of the Storm
23
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 16:29:00 -
[152] - Quote
Your also a lair...... Just how many Customers can use 1 planet.... You guys defending this must make crap load from Dev BJs.. |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
386
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 16:54:00 -
[153] - Quote
bilingi wrote: Your also a lair...... Just how many Customers can use 1 planet.... You guys defending this must make crap load from Dev BJs.. My also a lair?
One of my planets has had 14 unique customers since friday. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
632
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 18:16:00 -
[154] - Quote
Any way to tell whether all 14 are harvesting the same thing? Or are they factory planet customers? If the 14 harvesters are spread across at least 3 different raw materials, I could see that not being a big issue. |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
386
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 18:27:00 -
[155] - Quote
Not easily.
I can tell there is some processing going on the planet, because some people import. But imports are typically much smaller than the exports (10-20% of the value). I assume they are extracting some raw materials, then adding a bit extra to export a P3.
Obviously, there's a wild variation between export amounts. Some people do it clock-like every day, others take their time. One day I will do a proper analysis. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Havegun Willtravel
Mobile Alcohol Processing Units
44
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 22:52:00 -
[156] - Quote
Happy New Year to you and your team to Omen.
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
-- not sure, dont own one yet.
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
-- Definitely. It varies greatly by region but I've seen quite a few POCO's change ownership so they are definitely a conflict generator. The huge notification timer is nice to. Lets anyone roaming know that a fights coming which will undoubtedly create many interesting fights in the future.
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
Definitely. While certain regions might be dominated by large entities I've seen several instances of small and medium sized corps putting up one or three CO's on prime planets or splitting a system with new friends. While we are certainly at the beginning stages this feature show's excellent promise.
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
-- unchanged
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
-- not yet.
+1 for the boost to storage units and fixing the 'getting stuck' problem.
I can see where Interbus HP might be a PITA for null alliances but overall it seems to be working well in low sec and w space.
The timer is the best defense on a POCO so they really don't need guns or mods. Let people turn them into deathstars and you guarantee you need a blob to kill them instead of a small gang, so all is well here.
If it's not a major grind for you, perhaps reducing their sig rad would encourage more bs or bc oriented gangs instead of dreads/carriers. At the same time nothing brings people to a fight like cap km's so maybe it's fine as is.
To date I've been pleasantly surprised. None of the worst case scenarios seem to have come to play. In every instance that i've seen a CO getting ref'ed there was a genuine purpose to it. I cant recall seeing a single system where the co's had been popped and not replaced. And to my surprise I've seen a number of pirate corps become active in POCO ownership. So overall nice new feature with lots of mileage left to exploit on it. |
bilingi
Ghosts of the Storm
23
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 20:26:00 -
[157] - Quote
BS but keep posting it. Shows how low IQ for eve has dropped that they have to lie on forums. |
Ultima Forsan
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 02:41:00 -
[158] - Quote
How about some kind of siege weapon for taking down customs offices and abandoned pos? AFAIK, these tasks can't be effectively done without large fleets. How about an expensive siege weapon with no tank, no tracking. deploy/ anchor/ online and siege at 100 km. It could be easily taken down with a frigate, as it has no tracking, and no tank. left alone at 100km from a pos or customs office, it will take it down in a fair amount of time. Beacon comes up in local the whole time it is being onlined and operational. It could really only be used for abandoned pos and undefended customs offices. Anyone ever heard of an idea like this? -={Ultima Forsan}=- |
Nekopyat
Nee-Co
18
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 03:31:00 -
[159] - Quote
Ultima Forsan wrote:How about some kind of siege weapon for taking down customs offices and abandoned pos? AFAIK, these tasks can't be effectively done without large fleets. How about an expensive siege weapon with no tank, no tracking. deploy/ anchor/ online and siege at 100 km. It could be easily taken down with a frigate, as it has no tracking, and no tank. left alone at 100km from a pos or customs office, it will take it down in a fair amount of time. Beacon comes up in local the whole time it is being onlined and operational. It could really only be used for abandoned pos and undefended customs offices. Anyone ever heard of an idea like this?
You know, since they finally introduced 'true' battlecruisers... I could see them finally introducing some kind of 'field artillery' units that fit capital weapons but are pretty defenseless. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1282
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 04:10:00 -
[160] - Quote
Nekopyat wrote:Ultima Forsan wrote:How about some kind of siege weapon for taking down customs offices and abandoned pos? AFAIK, these tasks can't be effectively done without large fleets. How about an expensive siege weapon with no tank, no tracking. deploy/ anchor/ online and siege at 100 km. It could be easily taken down with a frigate, as it has no tracking, and no tank. left alone at 100km from a pos or customs office, it will take it down in a fair amount of time. Beacon comes up in local the whole time it is being onlined and operational. It could really only be used for abandoned pos and undefended customs offices. Anyone ever heard of an idea like this? You know, since they finally introduced 'true' battlecruisers... I could see them finally introducing some kind of 'field artillery' units that fit capital weapons but are pretty defenseless.
Like some kind of large battleship with a small number of very large guns? Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
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Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
391
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 09:00:00 -
[161] - Quote
A couple nights ago, we started seeding fights by reinforcing a couple POCOs, and one of the owners retaliated by reinforcing one of our friendly COs. All three timers finished yesterday within two hours of each other. The result was a lot of running around, one big gang brawl at one POCO, two careless dreads ganked at the other, and two offices dead (one on each side).
To quote a fellow pirate "these POCOs are the best thing CCP has done for lowsec in years". They create big fights away from gates and stations, which are more fun and more deadly.
The main problem with POCO combat that I see is how hard it is to defend them vs attacking them. This is a recurring problem with all structure fights.
If the defending fleet wants to repair the customs office, they have to bring shield transporters. This forces them to either bring a shield-only fleet, or somehow compromise their fighting ability by bringing shield logistics to an armor fleet. This doesn't matter much in a huge fleet, but for a small-medium one, it can be a huge deal.
Also, the unresisted HP is very rep unfriendly. A single T2 large transporter repairs 85 hp/s, so a logistics with 4 of them repairs 340 hp/s. A battleship, on the other hand will have around 2-3 times that dps. So repairing COs takes longer and is more boring than shooting them.
This leads more and more to winning the fight over the customs office, then not bothering to rep, which ends with the POCO dead a few hours later to a couple patient ships. Not a problem if you are using them to bait fights, as you can always just anchor a replacement, but can be an issue if you want to recover your investment (no, loot doesn't really count for that).
Fixing those issues for good would require a rethink of the structure siege model, I suspect. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Nekopyat
Nee-Co
19
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 14:56:00 -
[162] - Quote
Well, that kinda describes dreads in game already, well, at least dreads with no history. I imagine if EvE worked like the real world there would be all sorts of intermediate and prototype ship designs floating around.
Though now I am having happy memories of putting BS guns on my 'cane... simply because I could. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1285
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 15:17:00 -
[163] - Quote
Nekopyat wrote:Well, that kinda describes dreads in game already, well, at least dreads with no history. I imagine if EvE worked like the real world there would be all sorts of intermediate and prototype ship designs floating around. Though now I am having happy memories of putting BS guns on my 'cane... simply because I could.
Yeah, it does, doesn't it. Funny that. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
highonpop
Sucker Punch Industries
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 19:38:00 -
[164] - Quote
Small/Med size corps are at a greater disadvantage. Having a POCO is like painting a big target on your back for wardecs
I was going to launch on with my alt's indy corp. But thought better of it. |
Tierius Fro
Coronado's Cross
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 19:46:00 -
[165] - Quote
I do not like how the "cargo bay" works. I have factory planets that produced advanced items and with each load I sent down 10k M3 worth of mats. Before I do that I send up my advanced items and any leftover mats. If I have leftover mats in the custom office that i just brought up from the surface and I load my 10k M3 batch into the customs office (which I have to do because my hauler is just over 10K), then it automatically stacks everything. And so I cannot just send everything down because it is over 10k. I now have to juggle the mats back and forth between my hauler and the customs office, so nothing stacks and messes up my 10K batch.
Be nice if the customs office behaved just like cargo bay, in that it does not automatically stack.
Sorry, did not read this entire thread to see if this has been mentioned.
Fro |
corbexx
Aperture Harmonics K162
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 09:36:00 -
[166] - Quote
it has added a few options to wh space you have something to hit now if peopel pos up as a bit of a FU to them for not fighting and gives you the potential to wait and take them out or just chain collaspe leave a scanner in and come back next day |
Gustavus Adolphus
Croatoan Enterprises The Silent One's
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 11:29:00 -
[167] - Quote
CCP, any more updates for this FAIL, or is it just being quietly pushed aside, payoff for Mega Corp PVP, mission completed, mission success. |
Salcon Cliff
Aliastra Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 15:28:00 -
[168] - Quote
As a w-space corp, we have found the new POCOs to be quite nice. We have a fairly low tax rate (but not zero) which allows us to fund the POS fuel. The savings in taxes has been huge. So far, no one has tried to assault our POCOs, but we should have a significant force available to defend them if someone does. |
Red Teufel
Blackened Skies THE UNTHINKABLES
38
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 06:18:00 -
[169] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:Hello and a happy new year!
We are getting back to work and this is high time to evaluate how the Player Owned Customs Office feature worked out and potentially address any rough edges. Needless to say, we have been monitoring the developments for any major issues, and several defects were fixed during the past month. With this thread we want to collect your impressions and learn how you are using the feature and how you believe it has impacted EVE.
Here are a few questions if you need help to get started. Please remember that constructive feedback is more likely to lead anywhere.
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
Best regards CCP Omen
1. The NPC custom offices have too much ehp. it's not fun bashing them. TIMERs can be a huge issue and i'm usually asleep when they come out of rienforcment mode.
2. I personaly had several fights over them. I'd rather fight over a poco then a pos.
3. Yes i do.
4. PI I would say has become more relevent.
5. nope not here though some fights over them. |
VaMei
Meafi Corp
89
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 18:13:00 -
[170] - Quote
As an independent dealing in low-sec PI, it's been business as usual for me. The change in plan to implement the IB COs was key to keeping things running smoothly for me, thanks go out to CCP for that. No bugs to speak of, no camps of death waiting for me, but no epic stories to tell either.
2 of the 5 planets I work from have had the IB CO replaced with POCOs. One is offering a 10% tax rate, the other has a 17% tax rate. I've not run into any issues with having a planet's CO destroyed and not immediately replaced. |
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Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 15:02:00 -
[171] - Quote
Just a bump as I 'd like to continue seeing people post their opinions on this topic. |
Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 04:14:00 -
[172] - Quote
Seriously, give the POCOs some resists. It take about 3-4 orders of magnitude longer to repair a POCO than it does to reinforce it. |
Kile Kitmoore
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 19:01:00 -
[173] - Quote
POCO's are great, anything player made and destroyed is a good idea. Heck take it a step further and make Command Center's player made!
The one thing I really hate however is the absolute lack of communication about the status of a planet I am on which I don't own the POCO. If the POCO owner changes taxes, you are in the dark until you visit it. If the POCO is attacked, you can't even try to help the owner defend it. Some type of notification system would be helpful.
Let the owner name the custom office and maybe even give it a BIO type screen so the owner can leave messages for existing or future tenants.
While on the subject of PI, time to consider some new products PI can produce or more uses for the crap stuff that are hardly used.
|
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
739
|
Posted - 2012.03.10 09:17:00 -
[174] - Quote
Kile Kitmoore wrote: While on the subject of PI, time to consider some new products PI can produce or more uses for the crap stuff that are hardly used.
Such as implants!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=900908#post900908
Which would be a good way to create demand for a lot of the "biological" PI ingredients which don't get used for much else. Those blueprints should also pull in ingredients from other supply sources such as T1 salvage (more "unwanted" stuff that could use a boost in demand), advanced materials from moon (fullerides, carbides, etc) and even regular T1 minerals.
Nothing added down the road should ever pull from a single supply source. By pulling even trace amounts from other areas of the game you ensure that the market continues to be strange and wonderful.
(Implant blueprints should probably only be done as BPCs - which will allow them to be dropped as loot from rats / exploration or sold by the LP stores, without flooding the market long-term.) |
VaMei
Meafi Corp
90
|
Posted - 2012.03.10 12:22:00 -
[175] - Quote
Kile Kitmoore wrote: While on the subject of PI, time to consider some new products PI can produce or more uses for the crap stuff that are hardly used.
If we can't hope for new sources of demand for the out of favor PI products, then please let us reprocess them to make something useful. It's painful seeing the markets flooded with junk that'll never sell at the value of the inputs, and not being able to do anything to fix it.
On topic, another one of the IB COs I frequent has been replaced by a POCO with 10% tax, and I still have yet to run into a planet with no CO or one with a gank waiting for me. |
ROCK MELTER
GETCO Black Thorne Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.11 01:23:00 -
[176] - Quote
Kile Kitmoore wrote:POCO's are great, anything player made and destroyed is a good idea. Heck take it a step further and make Command Center's player made!
The one thing I really hate however is the absolute lack of communication about the status of a planet I am on which I don't own the POCO. If the POCO owner changes taxes, you are in the dark until you visit it. If the POCO is attacked, you can't even try to help the owner defend it. Some type of notification system would be helpful.
Let the owner name the custom office and maybe even give it a BIO type screen so the owner can leave messages for existing or future tenants.
While on the subject of PI, time to consider some new products PI can produce or more uses for the crap stuff that are hardly used.
Communication is key. Should get mails on everything you mentioned AND also when it is destroyed. One of my planets had it's POCO destroyed and there is no way for me to retrieve anything from the planet now. A mail on that would of been nice.
Naming the POCO just like a POS is a great idea!
Repping takes way to long. Needs to be shortened somehow. |
ROCK MELTER
GETCO Black Thorne Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.11 01:32:00 -
[177] - Quote
Vyktor Abyss wrote:Feedback from low sec militia pilot:
6. They badly need a corporate hangar, or the ability to host corporate contracts from peoples personal hangars at the POCO. I can only imagine the lack of this was a ******** oversight since they are CORPORATE structures.
Agreed! This would help out a lot with logistics.
|
Dograzor
The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
9
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 12:22:00 -
[178] - Quote
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
Taxes are horrid, as long as you are not in an alliance that actively holds space/sov that can defend their POCO's with taxes on 0%, you cannot make a decent profit out of PI. Price drop has also kicked in on materials on the market, so PI itself is now more worse then it was.
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
Yes, that is the positive side of the POCO's, more ways to **** people off = more fights.
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
Negative, it has turned out to be the opposite. The people who can fully benefit from this feature are the larger sized alliances who can defend their space at all time. I myself am more of a nomadic player in a medium sized corp, our corp moves from region to region, so defending poco's/space is not something we do.
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
Less, PI itself has become too much of a hassle now due to the taxes and the price drop on the market. I am running PI on my industrial character and I am considering letting it go because the prices are just not worth it.
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
Nope.
|
Kile Kitmoore
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 16:06:00 -
[179] - Quote
Dograzor wrote:1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
Taxes are horrid, as long as you are not in an alliance that actively holds space/sov that can defend their POCO's with taxes on 0%, you cannot make a decent profit out of PI. Price drop has also kicked in on materials on the market, so PI itself is now more worse then it was.
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
Yes, that is the positive side of the POCO's, more ways to **** people off = more fights.
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
Negative, it has turned out to be the opposite. The people who can fully benefit from this feature are the larger sized alliances who can defend their space at all time. I myself am more of a nomadic player in a medium sized corp, our corp moves from region to region, so defending poco's/space is not something we do.
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
Less, PI itself has become too much of a hassle now due to the taxes and the price drop on the market. I am running PI on my industrial character and I am considering letting it go because the prices are just not worth it.
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
Nope.
All good points, so the question is would anyone pay Dust merc's to defend their planets? |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
361
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 13:42:00 -
[180] - Quote
Kile Kitmoore wrote: All good points, so the question is would anyone pay Dust merc's to defend their planets?
Not unless CCP improves the actual PI game play (new products, new planetary structures, population control). Continuing to "sugar coat" a lacking feature with elements that add nothing to the feature itself, except making it more inconvenient, is a brain dead approach. Best exemplified by how you can operate and fight for a POCO and have fun with that without ever touching a planetary extractor or product.
The absurd situation will be enforced when DUST mercs get tones more fun and engaging game play out of wasting my planetary facilities than the puny amount I get out of pressing a button one time every week. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
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Avraham Avinu
Children of Noah
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 20:29:00 -
[181] - Quote
Quote:1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible? No, I the taxes provide a good incentive to move out of high-sec and for low, null sec to clame their own POCO.
Quote:2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature? I haven't been a part of any personally, but I hope to at some point. This new mechanic is awesome.
Quote:3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations? Yes, I love it. I think it's a great game mechanic that effects everyone to some extent and makes the game more immersive and enjoyable in a way that only Eve can provide.
Quote:4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE? I think it's becoming more relevant and I like that. I think it's a great addition to game mechanics.
Quote:5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office? No, but I'm sure I'll hear or be apart of a story in the future.
POCO's and P.I. is under-rated and I think it's a great mechanic for low-sec'ers. It also creates a great incentive to form a small low-sec corp and move to low-sec or even just solo. I believe this is the best feature of Crucible, right above the Tier III BC's. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
752
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 01:38:00 -
[182] - Quote
Avraham Avinu wrote: POCO's and P.I. is under-rated and I think it's a great mechanic for low-sec'ers. It also creates a great incentive to form a small low-sec corp and move to low-sec or even just solo. I believe this is the best feature of Crucible, right above the Tier III BC's.
That's one of the big issues at the moment, since it's introduction 20 months ago, it's never been iterated on. When was the last recipe added which consumed new PI products? The new T2 modules just used the same old PI materials which were already used by other T2 goods. The new Tier3 BCs were done as straight mineral recipes, with zero inputs from any other raw material pool.
For instance, why can't we make implants yet with a mix of PI-materials, traditional minerals, moon goo, T1 salvage, and Mykoserocin / Cytoserocin gas? Some of the "biological" PI goods seem tailor made to be used in the construction of implants. Adding stuff from the other resource pools would provide some dynamics to the market and could be used to boost demand for the "junk" stuff which everyone hates in those other resource pools. |
Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
74
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 19:32:00 -
[183] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible? Well when you put a PoCo into reinforce the other guys can't transfer ownership of it until it comes out of reinforce. Also you can't configure an office until it's all repped up. This seems a bit odd.
Also the highsec taxes are amazing, make them higher!
CCP Omen wrote:2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature? Yeah it's some nice scheduled pew pew. Granted I went to lowsec to get away from CTAs but they are a lot more fun when it's a 20 v 20 fight instead of 200 v 200.
CCP Omen wrote:3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations? YES!
Living in lowsec is now a totally viable option. If you set up a PoCo then you can dodge the 10% taxes that all the pubbies have to pay in highsec. If you set up a factory planet then you can always make that money that the carebears lose in taxes.
It's a great stream of income if you have a hauler alt that can fly into jita.
Also the taxes are nice too but you have to find a place where people are brave enough to fly into lowsec to do PI.
CCP Omen wrote:4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE? I dunno if there are enough blueprints that use PI stuff. I'd up their consumption a bit.
Other than that it's made lowsec a place that people can actually live in.
CCP Omen wrote:5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office? http://www.evenews24.com/2012/02/26/video-the-little-helios-that-could-kill-an-aeon/ The Aeon got killed because he was shooting at a PoCo. So TECHNICALLY customs offices help kill supers. |
non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
755
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 11:12:00 -
[184] - Quote
So I recently found out that when you set another corporations standings to anything other than -10, -5, 0, +5 and +10, they can't access the POCO at all. Yes, this is when you have the allow access with standings set on.
Is there going to be a change so corps only set standings with those 5 levels of standings like alliances do, or will POCO work when standings is set to something other than those 5 levels at some point?
Edit: Is CCP still reading this? |
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