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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Javadude
Java Industrial Services
0
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Posted - 2012.01.06 14:27:00 -
[61] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:Hello and a happy new year!
We are getting back to work and this is high time to evaluate how the Player Owned Customs Office feature worked out and potentially address any rough edges. Needless to say, we have been monitoring the developments for any major issues, and several defects were fixed during the past month. With this thread we want to collect your impressions and learn how you are using the feature and how you believe it has impacted EVE.
Here are a few questions if you need help to get started. Please remember that constructive feedback is more likely to lead anywhere.
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
Best regards CCP Omen
First and foremost, I would like to thank you guys for all the hardwork you've been doing in PI, I'm running 50 planets so I'm not exdactly thrilled everytime you guys come out with a change that forces me to rethink or even re-do my planets and I do grumble but after that shakeout, I do appreciate the direction you are trying to go with it.
1. My alliance assumed all ownereship of all poco's in the sov and set the rate at 15%, which actually I'm ok with, I have a serious problem with CCP at the fact that the charigng point is a static rate pulled out of the air when prices were up because people were stock piling. It would really be nice if that tax rate was recalculated on the first of each month or something based on a resample snap shot.
The problem with this is even within any corporation or alliance, you'll never get someone to go around and re-adjust things. The reason why (a) greed; (b) lazy; (c) PI to them is one step below mining. If you floated the tax rate against a weighted market average rather than a static grab, none of us would be so pissed about the fact that you forced socialist mechanisms of failed economies into the game. You only made big alliances richer with the tax rates and stuck it to the guys who do all the work.
2. No
3. Allliances are loving CCP for this, as the greedy @sshats who usually only login to stuff thier pockets and log out, they thank you. What is this corp profit you speak of? You know all the alliances are calling POCO ownership the new techmoon income.
4. More now that the Big Alliances are taking it all over in Null Sec. You guys really thought this would benefit small corporations? LOL you didn't factor in an inherent trait of eve, greedy RMT stuffing pocket alliances leaderships leeching on to one more revenue stream they can convert to real currency. All alliance learders are dirty, plain and simple. Expect more honesty from a User Card Dealership when you plan your next move.
5. Thought it was funny warping around a fleet of 5 supers and 3 carriers swapping out POCO's, seemed like a good use of time lol.
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Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
338
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 15:07:00 -
[62] - Quote
Javadude wrote:4. More now that the Big Alliances are taking it all over in Null Sec. You guys really thought this would benefit small corporations? LOL you didn't factor in an inherent trait of eve, greedy RMT stuffing pocket alliances leaderships leeching on to one more revenue stream they can convert to real currency. All alliance learders are dirty, plain and simple. Expect more honesty from a User Card Dealership when you plan your next move. Alliances putting up POCOs in their space sounds about the normal, expected behaviour. The chances for smaller corps are where they have always been, in lowsec and npc 0.0.
I'm curious what the situation looks like in Syndicate and Curse. Are there POCOs there? Who owns them? What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Lyra Blazing
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.01.06 16:44:00 -
[63] - Quote
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
Well PI is mostly a Click fest and boring as hell. I also dont like the fact that you have to watch you planets every day or loose output. Only Reason i have to do PI at all is running a pos and some T2 production. If it gets any worse like more products needing PI i am going to quite doing it and just buy off the market.
All said i preferred buying that stuff from npcs and would love to get back to that.
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
Well i heard of ppl taking down Interbus COs not exactly sure if thats pvp.
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
ATM i am running 5 planets for POS fuel. If the COs are removed by someone i am going to quit doing PI and buy the stuff from the Goons or some other large Alliance.
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
Well you need that crap for pos fuel and some T2 so its not like anybody has a choice
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
Well i saw 4 of 5 in lowsec not sure if thats qualifies as a story.
Btw can we get the old forums back ? This was my first post on the new forums and eve gate sucks. |
Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
309
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 16:45:00 -
[64] - Quote
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
The fact that corp->char standings are not considered, inability to adjust tax rates for P0, P1, P2, P3, P4s etc and finally planetary launches should be a viable option for producing P1s.
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
Yes, but not significantly.
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
Yes, so long as null sec alliances continue to ignore low-sec POCOs. If a null sec alliance decides to just steam roll POCOs in low sec "for the lulz" then these new opportunities will quickly disappear.
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
PI has always been relevant so long as POS fuels are dependent upon it. Many people have made enough money off of PI alone to PLEX their account.
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
In the first week after Crucible, a wormhole spawned in the low sec loop. The local pies, whom i had befriended despite being a massive carebear, scouted the wormhole and found two oracles bashing an Interbus CO in their wormhole system. The pies invited me to the bash and I took them up on the offer. I brought an Oracle of my own to the fleet. It was a text book maneuver: we jumped in, warped to the targets, lit them up, looted, pillaged and jumped out.
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Nyrak
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.01.06 20:30:00 -
[65] - Quote
I will start with three points:
One - I am a high security planet farmer and cultivator (or at least role-play).
Two - As a paradox to this game, I am more the creator type of player than the destroyer type.
Three - While most players seem to accept PI (closer to borderline despise), I actually like running my planets.
So when the POCOs were announced, I really did not give it much thought. My small group of planets off the beaten path in high security space did not seem to have been noticed by the general populance, so doing my own little thing was not stressful. While I was not making top ISK farming planets, I made enough that slowly expanding my number of planets and the bases on each planet was not running me dry. At one point, I considered building and saving enough pieces of combined planetary goods to create my own station if someday I desired. Then the POCOs were released.
The first issue I noticed was just how expensive everything became from building nothing into something. Instead of each item having its own taxing price, all the goods were clumped by their tiers. Thus items that barely had a market presence would cost just as much to take it off a planet as items like station fuels that always sold. So I started to consider tooling everything towards stuff that constantly sold and hope I could make a meager profit. But then what would I do to my planets that were already established and not tooled towards station fuels only?
The second issue I noticed was how all these station fuels were going to stabilize into the eventual price per fuel block and wondered if I should push everything into that direction. Without the accessible means to gain these prints and make them perfect, in time I would loose ISK by waste of items. I understand the concept of the "haves" to the "haves not" and was not demanding any special treatment. But looking towards the future, I saw how it was going to be very difficult to keep pace in the play style I have been using (casual).
The third issue I noticed was mentioned by another poster above me - using the floating CO above the planet as an oversized storage container was running my wallet dry. So I pondered either running into the red and go all out whenever I struck a good vein on the planet or curtail extractions and let the bases have periods of idling as I drain materials into the highest tier of product. Either route would not be bringing in the ISK.
The fourth issue I noticed was I suddenly had neighbors, and plenty of them on my nice, quiet planets. My good veins on a planet were drying faster than I was extracting and became quite annoyed at these interlopers. Perhaps these players were low security runners that got scared of the new potential owners and quickly ran into high security space for safety. For me, I suddenly had a temporary change of heart and did an 180 degree turn and wanted to destroy them. I looked into the Dust game as a means of removing them but realized high security space would not be affected. Fortunately, it seems these neighbors were not fond of my planets and have departed, leaving me to toil away in peace once again. But I still have an urge every now and then of blasting someone else's planetary base even though such games are not something I would considered playing previously.
The fifth and most recent issue I noticed has been the stabilization of the markets once again with people playing the 0.01 ISK game. Unfortunately I do not have the time nor patience to baby sit my orders. So as I set up sell orders and then wait and wait and wait until I finally get to check upon it to find it is the highest costing order. Meanwhile, the taxes from moving goods back and forth on a planet are taking its toll. While it is mere pocket change for most, nearly 42 million just in taxes are taking its toll on the dwindling market.
So I will have to start a main profession (probably missions) since I will have to delegate planetary interaction into a secondary means of support instead of my primary means of having fun creating something in a destructive game.
Please do not take this as a whining post, but as a high security player's perspective upon the release of the POCOs. |
Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 21:54:00 -
[66] - Quote
pmchem wrote:I have a hard time believing pretty much anything Toku Jiang said, as it's wildly divergent from other lowsec reports and his character / corp have absolutely no public killboard history. Obvious alt posting in self-interest or troll is obvious. edit -- he also previously said this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=286944#post286944"I don't run missions or rat any more, I only do PI for money and I do it all in high sec 0.5 systems. Essentially I have little risk of pirates, and I can do it all in one or two systems. I use 4 characters 4 with level 4 skills 1 with level 5 and crank out PI materials in large doses. My monthly income is a little over 1 billion per month, it takes about 2 hours every few days to reset the PI setups and haul the materials to a central location." In other words, he's a highsec extractor who is all angry that he's getting hit by taxes, and is just making stuff up about lowsec since he's unhappy about highsec extraction in the patch.
Yes this is an alt. Yes this is an alt corp specifically for industry so ya no kills, And yes doing PI in lowsec was making a lot of money. And yes the corp where I keep my "main" account liked to roam in that particular lowsec area, but no longer. Now the lowsec area is dead that we were utilizing. Have recently moved to another lowsec area where an alliance has taken over and managed the POCOs and taxes are 10% and things are slowly getting back to normal and we can find fights. As to highsec I never did PI in highsec the yields were never high enough to bother in my opinion.
I still think the POCO's are a **** poor idea and have only been implemented to accommdate DUST, which I hope the game dies off quickly |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
247
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 22:44:00 -
[67] - Quote
CCP, I never considered using the CO for buffer storage. But apparently others have, and the high taxes have hit them hard. A possible addition to PI that would help this situation is to allow launchpads to be upgraded to have more storage. Each upgrade would have a cost about equal to a warehouse, but unlike adding a warehouse PIN you do not need to worry about getting the routing right, or doing expedited transfers.
CCP employees should never proclaim a feature to be awesome. Only subscribers should. Subscribers can never answer a question posed to CCP. Only CCP can. |
Dal Thrax
Consolidated Munitions
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 18:58:00 -
[68] - Quote
I agree with the poster who suggested a planetary marketplace. Individual in game planetary market bulletin boards (similar to craigslist) might help to create a sense of community/place for major planets.
While tax rates are fine, the depletion mechanic needs to be examined by an economist to make sure that both high sec and null have a comparative advantage to engage in planetary trade.
Could you add a list of all CCs on a planet so that I donGÇÖt have to hunt each one down it I want to see that playerGÇÖs setup. Also, it would be nice of the PI interface under the science in industry tab would list the number of extractors each planet has, how long each has on its cycle and the contents/m3 of each storage structure.
To make silos more useful increase the bandwidth of links between a spaceport and a silo to 60,000m3/hour and between silos to 10,000m3/hour. If IGÇÖm understanding mechanics right this would allow me to have one spaceport , drop 10,000m3 into it and have the factories immediately pull the landed materials into silos. This means that I only need to have once spaceport on a factory world and the routing will automatically sort any landed PI products into the correct storage area.
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Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
244
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 21:43:00 -
[69] - Quote
All I have to say is CCP ripped away one successful business opportunity that I had going.
Even broke down and disbanded my Low Sec PI Corp - Bison - Placid PI.
Casual players don't have the time devotion to defend the near 'defenseless' POCO's.
THIS was seriously the worst, most unnecessary utter-mechanics change idea in awhile for the game, TBH. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
jakejekel
Night Breed Pack Spectrum Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 23:25:00 -
[70] - Quote
TL;DR other then first page. so sorry if it has been said, but
we need a way to change the corp wallet that the taxes go into.
also, an idea might be to allow us to anchor guns and e-war like at a pos? |
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RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1152
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 20:41:00 -
[71] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:All I have to say is CCP ripped away one successful business opportunity that I had going.
Even broke down and disbanded my Low Sec PI Corp - Bison - Placid PI.
Casual players don't have the time devotion to defend the near 'defenseless' POCO's.
THIS was seriously the worst, most unnecessary utter-mechanics change idea in awhile for the game, TBH.
1. Anything outside of Hisec is EVE's group play mode. Find someone willing to defend the POCOs for a reasonable fee (tax)
2. Deathstar POSes die all the time. Without a fleet, everything that's nailed down gets lit on fire.
3. Just because you can't adapt ... blah blah blah, adapt or die, etc. |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 21:41:00 -
[72] - Quote
I would really like some form of container that would fit in a cargohold that I could type in a certain number of m3 and it would create a stack of exactly that number of m3 of contents. Actually for that matter why don't we just have an option to split stacks by m3 (either in general or at the customs office)?
Using a calculator is OK but a bit time consuming especially when things are getting hot.
Actually a 10,000m3 Titanic Secure Container would probably be best (thought would quickly get used to expand hauler capacity if it offered a compression). |
Aries Darkstar
Hades' Vanguard
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 01:15:00 -
[73] - Quote
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
You need to be able to set CORP to INDIVIDUAL standings for tax rates. In 0.0 corp to corp is not an issue, but if you want to "rent out" better PI tax levels (which im trying to do) you NEED to be able to adjust PI tax to individuals, as whole corps will not always want to do PI in low sec.... |
Mesh Marillion
Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 01:35:00 -
[74] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
Haven't really played around it much.
Quote:2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
Yes, definitely. We see a lot of opportunities for fights coming from publicly visible timers or just from catching people shooting a poco. There is not a single week since their introduction where there hasn't been a conflict around pocos in the area we tend to keep tabs on.
Quote:3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
At least in low sec most pocos seem to be run by local corps, so i'd answer with a yes. It gives smaller corps an opportunity to stake a claim and to defend it. If if the big entities come and take the pocos down for the lulz as some said, they won't keep doing that (bit too much effort) and nobody will move bigger fleets around just for the sake of defending a poco thats worth less than 2 t2 fitted BS.
Quote:4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
It has become more dynamic probably, more player driven. Which is good i think.
Quote:5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office? We've had a couple of nice fights that originated from a conflict about the ownership of a poco. What makes them special is that you quite often get three- or fourways out of them because its pretty easy to notice the timer compared to lets say a pos timer.
Overall its a great feature that encourages people to work together and is pretty much spot on at least regarding risk vs income vs reward of defending it.
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pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
259
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 08:46:00 -
[75] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:Hello and a happy new year!
We are getting back to work and this is high time to evaluate how the Player Owned Customs Office feature worked out and potentially address any rough edges. Needless to say, we have been monitoring the developments for any major issues, and several defects were fixed during the past month. With this thread we want to collect your impressions and learn how you are using the feature and how you believe it has impacted EVE.
Here are a few questions if you need help to get started. Please remember that constructive feedback is more likely to lead anywhere.
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
Best regards CCP Omen
I remember when CCP published the first blog about POCO you asked for feedback
you had a 90 page or so thread feedback where the overwhelming majority of people spoke out against the idea but you just didn't listen you just went ahead and introduced a very biased game mechanic that basicly locks out smaller corporations and newer players from PI You told us that it would improve player co operation and friendship , i am still convinced that you know nothing about the game or even less about economics and what competition in industry actually means
If this is CCP first step into forcing high sec dwellers into nulsec , , don't bother just nerf whole high sec to death now effect will be the same only second will have faster results end result is you CCP losing customers
I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Lara Dantreb
New Horizons
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 09:59:00 -
[76] - Quote
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
- PI Taxes are fine, market do adapt. 0.0 and lowsec taxes are varied, from 0 to 20% from my experience - 35.000 m3 of storage in the custom ofice is not enough since 1) it's destructible 2) taxes are expansive 3) it could be convenient to store preemptively stuff or to let materials accumulate in the POCO - Cooldown timers for the paperwork when importing/exporting materials is annoying, as timers for onlining stuff in POS were... - a corporate storage could be convenient...
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
-Yes
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
-Yes of course
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
- Yes it has become much more relevant, it was a very good idea to implement POCOs
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
- Not yet but I've read some good ones in these forums
6. Happy New Year too
----á-á Buying T2 ship bpos since 2005-á --- |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
346
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 10:04:00 -
[77] - Quote
pussnheels wrote: but you just didn't listen you just went ahead and introduced a very biased game mechanic that basicly locks out smaller corporations and newer players from PI You told us that it would improve player co operation and friendship , i am still convinced that you know nothing about the game or even less about economics and what competition in industry actually means
How exactly are smaller corps and new players locked out?
If it's the POCOs, I've yet to see a single lowsec office that's not open to the public. Most of them have rates of under 10%. So, just because you can't anchor and defend your own POCO, it doesn't mean you can't use someone else's. That's what the devs meant by co-operation, and it's what I'm seeing.
And, if you meant the taxes, the average for a harvest planet seem to be 3-400k a day. Compared to the setup costs of a few million, that's peanuts and will be easily recouped. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
180
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 10:14:00 -
[78] - Quote
Nyrak wrote: The second issue I noticed was how all these station fuels were going to stabilize into the eventual price per fuel block and wondered if I should push everything into that direction. Without the accessible means to gain these prints and make them perfect, in time I would loose ISK by waste of items. I understand the concept of the "haves" to the "haves not" and was not demanding any special treatment. But looking towards the future, I saw how it was going to be very difficult to keep pace in the play style I have been using (casual).
Be aware that you can buy pre-researched ME40 (perfect, no material loss) fuel block prints from contracts - there are people in EVE who have the spare research slots and do business in producing researched blueprint originals. For any small time production it is rarely cost-effective to do your own blueprint research (station slots are always full and research POS running costs are considerable if all you are looking to do is to research a few blueprints)
Perfectly researched fuel block BPO is about 15-25 million ISK (depends a bit on the day as to what the cheapest are going for, but usually under 20 mil) compared to bit under 10 million for unreseached one, this is a fairly small cost to pay in order to be able to produce POS fuel blocks and it is one-time investment which can be re-sold back to someone else via contracts if you no longer want to build fuel blocks. And yes, it could be a good market to be in if you already produce all the PI components - just buy the ice components off the market and manufacture blocks at some station. It will be a high volume market come 24th of January. It won't have massive margins (if blocks cost a lot more than components, POS runners just keep buying fuel components and manufacture the blocks themselves) but it is a way to sell your PI as a more refined finished good.
You would have to set up some spreadsheets and do the math carefully tho - the market is bound to be choppy early on and you wouldn't want to sell blocks below the cost of the materials required to produce them.
You could even go one stop further and train ice refining skills and get suitable hauling capacity and instead of buying isotopes, heavy water and liquid ozone, you could go and buy unrefined ice from ice miners. Then refine, add PI products, produce blocks...
Plenty of ways to do industrial operations in EVE, you just have to think a bit as to what to do yourself, what to "outsource" (buy on the market/contracts) and how to ensure that the final stuff you offload to the market leaves something "under the line" for your troubles.
Oh and a little tip; If you are unable to keep up with 0,01 ISK games, consider selling the finished product at a less traveled market hub. While Jita has by far the greatest trade volume, it also has many dedicated station traders that do nothing but fight 0,01 ISK games all day selling products that they bought using cheaper buy orders. While you may hate them when you are selling something on a sell order, they are also very nice to have whenever you are buying something off a sell order - without constant market price wars, prices you pay would be higher.
Heck, as a mass producer I usually just use the buy order price to determine profitability - meaning that I won't even consider manufacturing something unless I can just sell the finished goods to standing buy orders at a profit. That way I can completely ignore the 0,01 ISK games and just sell. The time saved can be used for something more productive.
(...and if what you are making isn't making a profit at all unless you use sell order and fight 0,01 ISK games, may I suggest that what you are making is offering too low profit margin and it may be time to look at something else...)
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Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
346
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 10:19:00 -
[79] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible? I nearly forgot, but there is one annoying bug with repairing customs offices (maybe other structures too). The shield HP on your target icon does not update when you rep, or at least not regularly. You have to shoot the CO to get an HP update.
So you will be repping for 10 minutes without any effect. Then someone shoots at the thing, and you see the HP jump up 10%. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
259
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 10:20:00 -
[80] - Quote
Jack Dant wrote:pussnheels wrote: but you just didn't listen you just went ahead and introduced a very biased game mechanic that basicly locks out smaller corporations and newer players from PI You told us that it would improve player co operation and friendship , i am still convinced that you know nothing about the game or even less about economics and what competition in industry actually means
How exactly are smaller corps and new players locked out? If it's the POCOs, I've yet to see a single lowsec office that's not open to the public. Most of them have rates of under 10%. So, just because you can't anchor and defend your own POCO, it doesn't mean you can't use someone else's. That's what the devs meant by co-operation, and it's what I'm seeing. And, if you meant the taxes, the average for a harvest planet seem to be 3-400k a day. Compared to the setup costs of a few million, that's peanuts and will be easily recouped.
3-400k a day from a average of 150 to 200 k a day thats 100% increase CCP devs are programmers not economist , did you had a look at fuel prices for a pos ?? no together with the upcoming hukageddon even a small pos will be almost unaffordable
and not only that just the whole concept is horrible and smells to favoritism towards larger alliaces and the small independent corporations are left in the cold and unable to compete in industry with the bigger ones Or are you one of those who is willing to sell your soul and give up everything you work for to join a larger alliance I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
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Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
180
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 10:34:00 -
[81] - Quote
If "small pos is unaffordable" you are not using the POS for anything productive.
Personally I more than cover the fuel bill of one small POS entirely through blueprint research and copying. Small POS costing about 90 mil to run per 30 days, a single battlecruiser blueprint being copied for BPCs (taking one copyslot of one laboratory) covers that much... granted, you first have to invest in a BPO and research it, but beyond that, it is fairly little effort to make ISK out of POS ownership.
Now if your POS is just a toy floating in space and it isn't doing anything that produces ISK, yeah, it is a drain on your wallet. Why keep such a POS around?
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Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
346
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 10:57:00 -
[82] - Quote
pussnheels wrote:3-400k a day from a average of 150 to 200 k a day thats 100% increase CCP devs are programmers not economist , did you had a look at fuel prices for a pos ?? no together with the upcoming hukageddon even a small pos will be almost unaffordable Fuel prices have gone up because of the increase in taxes and the stockpiling for fuel blocks. They are up anywhere from 15 to 30%, which more than compensates the tax increase, so PI is as profitable as ever. Why, then, do you say small corps are locked out?
Yes, towers have become a bit more expensive to run. But all of mine are still making a profit, buying fuel from the market.
By the way, it has to be one or the other. Either you are complaining about PI not being profitable, or fuel prices going up.
Quote:and not only that just the whole concept is horrible and smells to favoritism towards larger alliaces and the small independent corporations are left in the cold and unable to compete in industry with the bigger ones Or are you one of those who is willing to sell your soul and give up everything you work for to join a larger alliance Why are you unable to compete? People in large alliances are also paying taxes, to the alliance. Personally, my small, independent corporation, working together with a couple other small, independent corporations, is having a blast fighting over lowsec POCOs. For us, it has provided an entirely new aspect to lowsec gameplay. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
259
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 11:11:00 -
[83] - Quote
Jack Dant wrote:pussnheels wrote:3-400k a day from a average of 150 to 200 k a day thats 100% increase CCP devs are programmers not economist , did you had a look at fuel prices for a pos ?? no together with the upcoming hukageddon even a small pos will be almost unaffordable Fuel prices have gone up because of the increase in taxes and the stockpiling for fuel blocks. They are up anywhere from 15 to 30%, which more than compensates the tax increase, so PI is as profitable as ever. Why, then, do you say small corps are locked out? Yes, towers have become a bit more expensive to run. But all of mine are still making a profit, buying fuel from the market. By the way, it has to be one or the other. Either you are complaining about PI not being profitable, or fuel prices going up. Quote:and not only that just the whole concept is horrible and smells to favoritism towards larger alliaces and the small independent corporations are left in the cold and unable to compete in industry with the bigger ones Or are you one of those who is willing to sell your soul and give up everything you work for to join a larger alliance Why are you unable to compete? People in large alliances are also paying taxes, to the alliance. Personally, my small, independent corporation, working together with a couple other small, independent corporations, is having a blast fighting over lowsec POCOs. For us, it has provided an entirely new aspect to lowsec gameplay. you made a good point tho i stick with my opinion and views , POCO was unwanted and there was no need for them
Next thing CCP is going to claim that they now added a whole new dimension to FW by making the POCO bpc available only in FW and concord LP shops I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Dragon E
Solaris Holding The Ancients.
0
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Posted - 2012.01.09 12:21:00 -
[84] - Quote
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible? - Raise the Taxes on Interbus and ad a fuel requirement for POCO's - Make Re-Inforcement cycle Strongtium bases. No re-fueling, no new Re-Inforcement timer. - Let people ad guns, for an additional fuel requirements. - Interbus Office not used by any player for 30 days should selfdestruct. No need to have them around.
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature? No. Because the POCO owner can run them remotely.
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations? Yes. many do PI as an extra income.
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE? Same.
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office? No.
Please ad destroyed/Reinforces POCOS to system wind where we also can see ships destroyd last 24 hours. This would ad attention and creaty more game dynamics. |
Dragon E
Solaris Holding The Ancients.
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 12:34:00 -
[85] - Quote
Miiikka wrote:Professor Alphane wrote:Don't think there has really been enough time for everything to settle into a pattern yet. What I would say is broken (well perhaps not broken but against the grain at least) is a couple of things. 1. You just handed on a gold plater null sec alliances a bonus 10% on there already larger share of PI profit. 2. Your system seems to try and encourage people to hold and defend property in low sec, something no-one is really going to undertake as the rest of the tools a null sec alliance have for these purposes aren't available. Discouraging people from taking that 'risk it for a biscuit route' and basically doing the oppossite of what you seem to have intended. 3. The overall effect therefore was a nerf to high sec ops and a buff for the already phenominally rich null sec alliances, plus added another complication for those who want to dip there toe in riskier ventures. All in all a nice idea, when implemented doing almost the complete opposite of what was intended, pretty much par for the course really. Just the way I see things of course your milage may vary. /edit- thanks for asking though Pretty much this. Most of the large Sov holding Alliances are tearing down the Interbus Offices and erecting their own, thus adding to their already substantial income stream. The Offices in lowsec have had some activity surrounding them, but are for the most part untouched. Small Corps who do not have the means to destroy/defend these offices are being shut out, by the added complication of increased charges for their members who carry out PI to offset the costs of towers etc. So, as predicted another additional income stream for large Alliances, another blow for the small corps/individuals trying to make a little profit out of PI. My 4 characters continued with PI for a week after this change was implimented to see how things went, but then I stopped them on all 20 planets. The higher initial charges, along with the reduced profit (which was not that much anyway) makes it not worth the time invested anymore. Its a shame, but not entirely unexpected.
Miika wrote: Pretty much this. Most of the large Sov holding Alliances are tearing down the Interbus Offices and erecting their own, thus adding to their already substantial income stream.
Have you looked at LOWSEC recently?? Nothing there support your theory. Tons of Interbus Offices ready to be replaced with POCOs.
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Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
180
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 13:50:00 -
[86] - Quote
Indeed. In the lowsec systems that I use (for other purposes) all POCOs are still Interbus. This is a downer for me as I could do some small time PI on the side but not at 17% tax rate (so I do it at my highsec "home" system under CONCORD 10% tax). Not doing enough PI to care about replacing the POCOs myself (too much effort and too much ISK required) or to travel to other systems where I otherwise have no productive business going on.
But hey, if someone else did replace them and allow usage at a competitive tax rate, I'd probably shift my PI stuff over to those lowsec systems that I constantly visit anyway for other purposes. "Competitive rate" in this case would be 10% or below. I might even pay 11-12% if I get some kind of "spacehonour word" from the POCO owner that the rate is going to stay put and the POCO is being defended so I don't end up with bunch of PI structures on a planet with no POCO (or with a POCO set at ripoff tax rate). I would have no problem paying all that export tax to the owner of the POCO. FREE ISK PRINTER! Look! Here!
I say there is plenty of market available for "POCO landlords" in lowsec. The biggest hurdle is probably to find some way to set it all up and advertise it to potential PI "bears" without attracting the attention of a Bigger Fish that might drop some caps to blow up the POCOs for "teh lulz".
I guess at this point the only practical way is to just set up some POCOs, do some own PI (at 0% rate for yourself, naturally) and set up a competitive tax rate for others and see if the "PI bear honeypot" brings people to the planets with your POCOs. It also helps if you don't try to shoot their haulers...
Perhaps EVE needs some kind of "search for POCOs by tax rate" style in-game way to browse and search planetary infrastructure in the region / in the universe. A way to set up infrastructure for others to use without making forum posts or other "noise" that might attract evil people. Naturally this is something someone could do by setting up a web service or something where people can post their "available for public" lowsec POCOs with tax rates etc. |
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 14:33:00 -
[87] - Quote
I personally like the idea of POCO's as something else that pilots can build and run themselves. It adds something more to the the world of New Eden. Although it does seem to be another buff for the nul-sec community.
I am not in favour of the massive hike in PI taxes. We were deceived initially by CCP into thinking the tax was going to be doubled. If it had been openly explained at the offset that tax would be increased by hundreds of percent as they have been that would have been more honest. BUT then you would have had another furore on the scale of the NEX Store debacle. With the relatively puny amounts of material that can be obtained by doing PI in high-sec i would say doubling the PI tax would have been fairer than the present situation.
Also the current PI tax in high-sec will prevent new pilots in New Eden from getting involved in Planetary Interaction while they stay in high sec to learn the game. |
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
184
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 15:27:00 -
[88] - Quote
Celgar Thurn wrote: We were deceived initially by CCP into thinking the tax was going to be doubled. If it had been openly explained at the offset that tax would be increased by hundreds of percent as they have been that would have been more honest.
This was CCP fail - they didn't realize that their initial plans would mean practical tax that was something like 1% - not worth setting up POCOs. So they at the last minute revised the taxable value of PI goods (while still doubling the taxes) and that caused bit of a double-whammy. It was unavoidable and needed - without it nobody would build POCOs as the benefit over the "17% interbus tax" would be in reality less than 2%.
Quote: Also the current PI tax in high-sec will prevent new pilots in New Eden from getting involved in Planetary Interaction while they stay in high sec to learn the game.
Nope. PI is still profitable even with the taxes. Do the math. In EVE you cannot avoid doing the math. Google Docs spreadsheets for the win.
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Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
346
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 15:28:00 -
[89] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Indeed. In the lowsec systems that I use (for other purposes) all POCOs are still Interbus. This is a downer for me as I could do some small time PI on the side but not at 17% tax rate (so I do it at my highsec "home" system under CONCORD 10% tax). The Interbus COs are a big deterrent to deploying your own POCOs, especially in busy lowsec (where other people would notice them). Look at Amamake, where all COs are still Interbus. The same applies to other hotspots. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 17:27:00 -
[90] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:Hello and a happy new year!
Here are a few questions if you need help to get started. Please remember that constructive feedback is more likely to lead anywhere.
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?
Best regards CCP Omen
1. I think over all it works pretty well. PI is still profitable in high sec but now much more appealing in low/null
2. I have not seen much PVP as a result of the POCO's. definitely more fleet ops to clear the way for alliances to put up there own POCO's but the only POCO's I have seen fall were pirate targets in active low sec area's. Why put one there in the first place.
3.not really. even with high taxes it takes forever for a POCO to repay the costs to put it up. definitely more of a benefit to large corps/alliances that are not burdened by the costs.
4. No. PI is a requirement as it is the only real source now for needed components for manufacturing. low/null POCO's definitely have an advantage over high sec PI which is as it should be. But PI demand is still controlled by manufacturing and POS fuel demands.
5. NO but I do believe they were a big step in the right direction.
On a side note it does seem we need something more to increase the appeal of putting up a POCO. the profits alone do not seem to be enough as it takes so long to repay the investment that you will possibly lose your POCO before you even break even. Reducing the costs would not work as they would be even less worth defending. increasing the tax does not work as it would hurt the game economy to much. I thought it would be cool to be able to upgrade the POCO's. Have an upgraded POCO give bonuses to command center power grid ,CPU, and link capacity, even storage silo capacity. This would make them far more valuable and worth defending (to protect upgrades) increasing related PVP and POCO value without drastically increasing cost or taxes. |
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