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Lais Eron
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Posted - 2008.01.11 12:03:00 -
[361]
I get slightly annoyed every time I miss skill training. Achievement is important to me as far as my enjoyment of games goes. I understand that not everyone cares to achieve, some people play to socialize or to role play, or do whatever else. I would not call either approach more mature than the other. It is just that people are different and have different goals in game and some are more focused on leveling up than others.
With other games where skill training progresses according to what you do at least I did not feel forced to log on to level myself up. In EVE I have to log on at specific times throughout the day in order to level up according to game mechanics. This I do not like and thus I support a one skill queue because it would give me more freedom.
I should be able to log in when I want - not when the game wants. CCP please give us a 1-skill queue!
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b1zz
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Posted - 2008.01.12 10:25:00 -
[362]
Originally by: Johnnie Procyon
However I'd support a limited 'backup' skill activation, perhaps with a total running time of no more than a couple of hours. Just enough to bridge the inconvenient gaps that crop up fairly frequently. After the running time has run out, the character of course going back to 'No Skill in Training' status.
Well, I can't say I've ever been affected by any unexpected downtimes in the time I've been playing. There was that one 4 hour extended downtime shortly after Trinity was released, but that did not affect me because I always set long training skills between playing sessions. Maybe that's why I'm not quick to encourage the addition of another addendum rule to a system that, for me anyway, works fine in its vanilla form. The only time I've lost training time is when I've been afk and just forgotten to get back to the keyboard by a certain time, and in these instances it's been my own fault and I would not expect any assistance from CCP.
You guys are making it sound like these unexpected downtimes are happening every second day but that's not my experience. Have I just been lucky to start playing in a period when everything was running smoothly?
If they do add a skill queue I hope it's an in-game skill of advanced level.
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Epicurean Ian
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Posted - 2008.01.12 11:53:00 -
[363]
Originally by: Dimagus Edited by: Dimagus on 21/06/2007 09:13:33 I wouldn't mind a queue for the next skill only to automatically start training, just so we don't have to lose time or switch to another halfway because a skill will complete during downtime or when we're not home.
We would still be required to log in for every skill to put next in the queue, but it'd be at a time that's convenient, and not whenever the timer happens to run out.
Simply put, agreed.
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Andre Coeurl
Gallente TOHA Heavy Industries Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.01.14 18:49:00 -
[364]
Originally by: b1zz
Originally by: Johnnie Procyon
However I'd support a limited 'backup' skill activation, perhaps with a total running time of no more than a couple of hours. Just enough to bridge the inconvenient gaps that crop up fairly frequently. After the running time has run out, the character of course going back to 'No Skill in Training' status.
Well, I can't say I've ever been affected by any unexpected downtimes in the time I've been playing. There was that one 4 hour extended downtime shortly after Trinity was released, but that did not affect me because I always set long training skills between playing sessions. Maybe that's why I'm not quick to encourage the addition of another addendum rule to a system that, for me anyway, works fine in its vanilla form. The only time I've lost training time is when I've been afk and just forgotten to get back to the keyboard by a certain time, and in these instances it's been my own fault and I would not expect any assistance from CCP.
You guys are making it sound like these unexpected downtimes are happening every second day but that's not my experience. Have I just been lucky to start playing in a period when everything was running smoothly?
If they do add a skill queue I hope it's an in-game skill of advanced level.
b1zz I have indeed to say I'm sorry because I have gone a little too "far" in my reply to you, honestly it was a kind of reaction to the arguments you gave which seemed a bit "pretestuous" to me.
Since you're fairly new to the game (in my POV at least, 2 months are a relatively short time in EVE, since I consider myself still a nOOb in most fields) you may have indeed "missed" some periods in which unexpected downtimes were a bit too frequent, and many ppl (me among them) lost more than a few hours training time because of that. Maybe the point you got wrong here is that the damage caused by an unexpected server crash is NOT the same for all players, since some will be hitten heavily, others less, others not at all. That's because when you log in to play, you may switch on to a short time skill to train in the meanwhile, and if the server unexpectedly and without previous warnings crashes then, your training stops. As well, that will damage all the players who need to log later to change a skill which have finished training in the meanwhile, they will be unable to launch a new skill. Players who have a long skill going on the other hand will get unaffected by this, so as you see the problem is not "democratic" at all, even if it's just chance-based. The other fact is, if you have the time to log on as soon as the server goes up again (sometimes it has been several hours later) you just miss that time, otherwise, if it's late night or if you have RL issues, you are going to log maybe one day later, maybe much more, so this can be quite an upsetting thing for a paying customer of course.
I sincerely hope my explanation will be useful to show my POV on the issue, it's not like me and many others want a fancy new feature, we just want an emergency "parachute", meant for a limited purpose, no more and not to be expanded in the future at all, because that would make it a "feature", and we don't mean it that way! --- --- ---
Trinity: best content release ever, totally obscured by the worst nerf ever |
NyarghNia
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Posted - 2008.01.14 23:48:00 -
[365]
I have to speak as a new player here. As someone who has spent a long time playing (and still does play) World of Warcraft, I have to admit that I REALLY REALLY LIKE the skill system here in EVE!!
If you want mind-numbing booring, try levelling up fishing in WoW, standing there for hours and hours one end mashing two keys, or making 5000 pairs of pants to level up tailoring... yech.
Seriously, nothing is worse than skill grinding.
Toon farming would be rife if you could set long queues of skills, people would open up dozens of accounts, wait 6 months, then EBay em for a very nice profit!
But, a skill queue would be VERY nice for those who are still participating, but will be AFK for some time (ie those in defence forces). How about a paid service? Ie, you pay a nominal fee depending on the length of the time you want queues skills to be used, also only allow training if account is paid up. Put an upper limit on it and maybe that would be a nice compromise?
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Leora Nomen
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.01.15 01:16:00 -
[366]
Edited by: Leora Nomen on 15/01/2008 01:16:08
Originally by: NyarghNia Toon farming would be rife if you could set long queues of skills, people would open up dozens of accounts, wait 6 months, then EBay em for a very nice profit!
read the rest of the thread - it has already been covered that it's not going to happen
in short: it is not like farmers cannot farm characters already, but they don't do it because it is hardly as profitable for them to farm characters as compared to farming ISK - the profit per character that you would make per month is miserable compared to how much ISK they farm from game's resources, and demand is low
guide to game time codes |
Saarjuk Khan
Caldari Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.01.16 15:51:00 -
[367]
Originally by: Steyr Daghan /thread
This thread is an epic fail for reasons that have been mentioned already.
CCP: Skill system is fine. Queue would do more harm than good. Don't listen to the whiners.
This answer sounds like a frustrated long time player, that would hate to see the queue because he always wanted it when he had 1hour skills to train. but now is stuck at skills that take 30+days so he doesnt bother anymore =)
*hands Steyr a kleenex* Anger is a Gift |
Ines Sastre
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Posted - 2008.01.17 18:08:00 -
[368]
just a few hours ago we suffered another unexpected and unscheduled problem, which is causing me more than 4 hours of training. and i am sure many more people are also affected.
please, some of the intelligent players saying we dont need a queue tell me how to not loose training time when CCP fails at patching.
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Lara Muklach
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Posted - 2008.01.18 11:47:00 -
[369]
Ladies and Gents boys and Girls,
I dont often reply to forum threads. I'm a fan of watching from the sidelines silently cheering, but not getting into the game of forum trolling. This topic however has peaked my intrest enough to put forward my 2c worth.
There has been alot said on this topic from Char farmers, to people being too lazy to log in to change skills, to people being way too busy to log in to change a skill every few days. I dont really want to drag up all this stuff again, but as I said, I want to have my say on the topic.
Having a skill cueing system removes the effort required to build a character from Noob ship to Shrike. To build a toon to a carrier/jump freighter/Rorqual level takes time, and the ability to plan your skill training. If you can cue skills, how easy does the skill training in this game become? It's easy enough as it is.
If you work, have a family, have another hobby/wife/mistress that prevents you from changing a skill at the required time, good. It shows you have an interest outside a computer game and the time you invest in that will bring you more pleasure/payback and reward than playing this MMO ever will. You have also probably learned by now to plan your skill training so you always have long skills available for when you are away. I know I have.
To everyone else, I like this game. Please dont try and push for a system that removes the only reason why char farmers aren't (more) rife. And more importantly, I enjoy the challange of planning my skills around when I can be online. If you don't or you can't, then maybe a game where you only advance when you are online is more suited to your lifestyle.
Oh, and as for Technical issues, you win some and lose some. Take the times when the cluster is up 30 mins to half a day earler than scheduled as payback for the time you lose once in a blue moon (in my experience, latley) when we lose the server.
I have a pretty thick skin to, so flame away. It's my opinion, what I think/feel on the subject. if you disagree, thats awesome. I love a good (rational) debate from time to time!!
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Aphrodite Whiterose
Amarr Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.01.18 12:07:00 -
[370]
I think having a queuing system would be good as long as you can only train for a paid account. As for farmers theres nothing really stopping them from just changing skills manually as it is atm anyway so i dont think thats too much of an issue.
Alternatively being able to swtich skills from the EVE-Online.com webstite would be good as people can access a website from a lot more places than they can access the actual game and then manually switch it to a different skill via your account on the website.
----------------------------------------------- Amarr - Playing EVE in Hardcore Mode since 2007 |
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Panch0Villa
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.01.18 18:11:00 -
[371]
Come on CCP! Plz w/ cherry on top!
I need to set my skills to train that 2H 13M 10S skill and then move on to Cruiser V omw out the door. Surely if CCP didn't work @ Eve, they'd know this was inconvenient. I have school and work, 2 hr and .5 hr window during weekdays to change skills, 16 hours apart. I can only work these skills on weekends, but I pay to use Eve every single day
Surely it's not too much to ask
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Pearljammer 5657
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Posted - 2008.01.19 12:04:00 -
[372]
Hi, everyone, im brand new to Eve, this is my first MMO. I love it and I love the skill system, eventually ill be training level 5 learning will take about 7 days where im at now, but still working on focus. Im training this skill gives me time off from this very addictive game, I used to play poker at the casinos all the time my last day at the casino was my first day on Eve.
Skills that take days will get me away from my pc, hang out with the GF, see my friends. I feel all for who cant always login, because you need that certain level to use whatever!! Train the long skill, if youre away from PC you will have learning 5,etc eventually.
I just wanted to put my 2 cents in, from a MMo rookie. Eve rocks.
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Mr Azrael
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Posted - 2008.01.20 09:44:00 -
[373]
All for it Should've been implemented long time ago Read all 13 pages of this thread and really haven't heard any good argument against it. Part from 'I play this game this way so everyone should play eve this way'. Sad
But go CCP give me the queue thingy!
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Aindrias
Amarr Labteck Corporation LTD. Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.01.20 10:30:00 -
[374]
My thought on queues is this and I dunno if this has been suggested in the previous 13 pages, but here I go.
You may set one skill in the queue. If you forget to queue a skill, it will go to the next level of the the skill you are currently training, if you just finished a lvl 5 skill, it will jump to the next skill in the list that isn't lvl 5 and begin training that.
With this, you will be able to have some Queue Control (tm), let people be lazy and forget (but not necessarily train what YOU want next) but miss out on ANY training.
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The Rain
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Posted - 2008.01.20 16:25:00 -
[375]
And what do the people who can switch skills on time get? (Hint: it rhymes with "nothing"). Just like any other game, if you can't make time for it you don't receive the in-game rewards whether it's better items, more money, or higher skills.
Also, in case the readers haven't noticed, this thread was started in June of '07 and is only one of the more recent ones on this topic. The people at CCP are well aware of the idea of a skill queuing system, have weighed its pros and cons, and decided long ago that it is not a desirable game mechanic. I'm not saying they always choose the right ways to go. What I am saying is that if skill queuing was going to be in the game, it already would be.
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Sedontane
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Posted - 2008.01.20 16:39:00 -
[376]
Edited by: Sedontane on 20/01/2008 16:39:13 EVEMon + Logitech G15 = Easy skill tracker w/o logins
Problem sorted now you cant forget that that skill is on and will end in 25s . . . 23s . . . Ok I will login and change it
cya o7
EDIT: spelling correction
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Belmarduk
de Prieure Enuma Elish.
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Posted - 2008.01.20 18:50:00 -
[377]
Originally by: Sedontane Edited by: Sedontane on 20/01/2008 16:39:13 EVEMon + Logitech G15 = Easy skill tracker w/o logins
Problem sorted now you cant forget that that skill is on and will end in 25s . . . 23s . . . Ok I will login and change it
cya o7
EDIT: spelling correction
So you have your G15 with you all the time (work and whereever? ) and you can loggin with only the G15 then? Oh wait CCP Please give us casual players a Skill-Queue !
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Belmarduk
de Prieure Enuma Elish.
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Posted - 2008.01.20 18:53:00 -
[378]
Originally by: The Rain And what do the people who can switch skills on time get? (Hint: it rhymes with "nothing"). Just like any other game, if you can't make time for it you don't receive the in-game rewards whether it's better items, more money, or higher skills. Wrong You ever compared mmo systems carefully? With this system its a MUST to skill ALL time...
Also, in case the readers haven't noticed, this thread was started in June of '07 and is only one of the more recent ones on this topic. The people at CCP are well aware of the idea of a skill queuing system, have weighed its pros and cons, and decided long ago that it is not a desirable game mechanic. I'm not saying they always choose the right ways to go. What I am saying is that if skill queuing was going to be in the game, it already would be. The take it off the f.... drawing board for Christ Sakes !
CCP Please give us casual players a Skill-Queue !
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RIP Wash
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Posted - 2008.01.20 19:14:00 -
[379]
X me up for this.
I like this idea, If I'm paying the fee but cant log in for some reason let me keep training.
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Xydros
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Posted - 2008.01.20 20:09:00 -
[380]
I'm for the queuing 1 skill idea.
Okay, I am a sub 2 million SP Pilot. I started playing Eve to hang out with some friends in a very, very small corp that is more concerned with the consumption of beer than doing any serious playing :)
The skill system is an interesting concept, it kills the normal grind present in normal MMOs, but it instead has its own strengths (and weaknesses). The biggest one I see is the fact that I have to be online the minute a skill ends. Now I know some pilot when 5 million plus skill points is going to come out and call me a newb, but ultimately a company needs to balance pleasing the hardcore crowd with keeping their game accessible to noob pilots like me.
I know this is a huge sin on these boards, but you know why WoW is the most popular MMO in the world? It's the most polished. It took everything every other MMO before it did well and improved on it and made it better.
Now, Eve is a pretty decent game in some ways its the best MMO I've ever played (I've played every major MMO starting with UO) but in others its just bad. The game isn't well explained (the tutorial explains almost nothing and the newb help chat is a spam fest I never was able to get anything answered in there) and the interface isn't very polished. Most MMO players don't like having to log on at a certain time of day to do something, having to do that to continue leveling something you have to do is very, detrimental to Eve's growth. Allowing a single skill to queue would help to eliminate this and would fix the number one compliant about the game I've heard from most of the people Ive talked to (ignoring whining to nerf ship x or buff ship y of course :p).
The OMG what about the account farmers argument is stupid.
If you consider I can run 3 instances of the new engine with everything on high with a web browser and music player going, imagine what a 2-3 man isk farmer team (24 hours round the clock) could do considering how "macro" friendly mining is. They are probably already farming on the accounts they are planning to sell anyway. As they are online 24/7 anyway any kind of queuing system wouldn't benefit them.
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Ceseuron
PRIMOS LOCOS The Red Skull
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Posted - 2008.01.20 21:49:00 -
[381]
This morning I logged in at 5am PST-ish and noted over 30,000 players online. Assuming that the average monthly rate for all these players is about $13 a month, and assuming within a months time the average active user base with paying accounts in the game is 30,000 you wind up with about $400K in gross monthly income.
The point? CCP isn't going to implement something that even remotely stands to interfere with the continued income from it's player base. If you log in and realize you forgot to set skill training, that time you lost translates into more time you have to stay subscribed to train that skill to completion. And that means more money you put into their coffers. Odds are good that CCP actually wants you to forget to cycle skill training from time to time. I'm sure CCP and a number of players want you to believe that the lack of common-sense implementations like the skill queue system, or even (mums the word) a respecialization system, is intended to prevent ISK farmers and character farmers from being able to peddle their ill-gotten gains for real-world money.
The reality of the situation is that a skill queue system will never be implemented. Not because it's a bad idea, or because of any real concern over the ISK or charcater farmer. It's just not a good idea from an economical standpoint. Why do you think they stopped allowing skills to continue training on an account with an expired subscription?
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Dimagus
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Posted - 2008.01.20 23:32:00 -
[382]
^^^ Your argument is that people will delay canceling subscription just to finish a skill because they had time wasted?
Stop. Panic. Your common sense is failing.
Players aren't going to pay for some extra months to get their characters to where they already should be, then mysteriously stop playing afterwards. The decision to quit will be made, and the payment will cease right then and there. The lack of accessibility and convenience in skill training is a factor that encourages players to quit sooner, and thus cost CCP money.
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Ceseuron
PRIMOS LOCOS The Red Skull
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Posted - 2008.01.21 00:08:00 -
[383]
Originally by: Dimagus
The lack of accessibility and convenience in skill training is a factor that encourages players to quit sooner, and thus cost CCP money.
And yet, at the times I log in, there's not less than 20,000 people online. One or two or even a hundred people quitting the game over a lack of an out of game skill management feature isn't going to cause a notable impact on their income.
And no, as much as the perceived veil of anonymity of the Internet compels you to cast lame insults at me, my common sense is just fine. Clearly you misunderstood my original post as I did state that I agree with the implementation of such a feature. It's just not going to happen. Allowing people to get closer to the top faster and more efficiently will also cost CCP money as people will simply cancel subscriptions out of boredom.
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Dimagus
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Posted - 2008.01.21 01:39:00 -
[384]
I see what you did there. Well played distractionary measure sir, most people will never notice.
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Agif
Templar Republic R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.01.23 00:13:00 -
[385]
as long as the skill didn't exceed 24hrs and was a backup skill encase your primary skill ended. Also in case the server go's down unexpectedly and doesn't come up before you have to bail out the door to work or whatever then the secondary skill would start.
meh just a thought.
/agif ---------------
EvEmissions - Level 5 Missions - Updated 22/01/08 |
Kyra Felann
Gallente Elite Storm Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.23 17:16:00 -
[386]
Originally by: NyarghNia
Toon farming would be rife if you could set long queues of skills, people would open up dozens of accounts, wait 6 months, then EBay em for a very nice profit!
BTW, this game doesn't have "toons".
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Turlin
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Posted - 2008.01.24 10:41:00 -
[387]
A skill queue would be a boon to the new and intermediate player. However, it would need to be skillfully done so that it can not be used to go past the limits of what can be done currently without it. As it stands if you cancel your subscription the current skill will finish no matter what. Here is the best way I can of to implement the system so that it is used a gift to players with an active subscription or regular use of time cards.
Eligibility for use: 1)Currently active subscription to the game. If you account is set to cancel then you will lose the use of the skill queue. People that use Game Time Cards will be put into pend cancel if their time is 5 days away from ending with no new additional time added.
2)Accounts must have at least 1 paid month on their account before the skill queue becomes available. Skill queue is not usable during the trial or first 30 days that come with the game.
Here is how the skill queue will work. 1)The queue can queue up 24 hours worth of skills or a single multi-day skill. If you start a multi-day skill you will not be able to add additional skills until it is under 24 hours worth of time. Once under that 24 hours you can add additional skills so long as their combined total is not over 24 hours or a single multi-day skill to the queue. 2)Any skill rank or level can be added so long as all requirements for the skill to be trained are completed before the skill is to start training. 3)If at anytime you account enters pending cancel the queue will shutdown and the current skill will finish training with no other skills being started. 4)When an account enters active status again the queue will NOT automatically restart. The player will have to re-enter the game and setup the skills again.
The way I have setup how the queue will work it will allow both veterans and new players alike to maximize it's usefulness.
The point of the queue is not be able to train a lot of skills back to back without interacting in the game but rather to prevent loss of time due Real Life not allowing one to get into the game.
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Pontet Canet
Amarr en primeur
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Posted - 2008.01.24 10:45:00 -
[388]
**** happens.
I don't like the idea of a queue.
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Liu
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Posted - 2008.01.24 11:55:00 -
[389]
Originally by: Pontet Canet **** happens.
I don't like the idea of a queue.
what's wrong with a 1-skill queue that only works if the account is active?
Originally by: Apertotes tbh, boot.ini was overpowered and needed a nerf
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Ixiel
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Posted - 2008.01.24 20:46:00 -
[390]
Heh, the real problem: Escalation. People have been whining about this for ages; if they grant it what'll folks whine about next that'll seem like a travesty they don't have it in a few years? The functional upshot is pretty minimal when you think about it unless you're looking to have a higher coolness score than the guy next to you. Even then, that's a fixed sum endeavor. You won't gain unless the rest of folks lose, and the guy than whom you want to be cooler will get a queuer too. If they put it in I'll use it, but losing an hour or so between skills isn't going to decide the battle.
Oh and don't get me wrong: Nothing in this post should change what side someone's on. If the ancient skill queue war distracts the demos from interfering with stuff they can't understand but actually can change I say let the war continue.
Ix
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