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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Hauler's Gal
Cirrius Technologies O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:15:00 -
[1801]
Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos
Quote: I want to know if MSN is an authorized 3rd party programme in relation to the game. If not I want whomever reported the ISD incident to CCP banned as they have broken the rules of player conduct. :)
Such statements are disclaimers, used in the same way that laws like "Breach of the Peace" are in the UK - as a preventative measure to ensure that they do have the power to eject individuals lawfully from the game should it come to light that they are using software that gives them an ADVANTAGE within the game.
If there is misconduct through MSN, then it's not the software that causes this but the individuals relationship. If you are to follow your post to it's conclusion, the use of our web browsers to access this site infringes upon the disclaimer you mentioned, as would the use of ANY application on your machine that was not developed by CCP.
Now, I know this statement was made in good humour, but there's enough people misinterpreting things in this incident that even this requires clarification.
Sorry I didn't realize I was being as vague as it turned out. What I meant to say was that if they are using MSN instead of the petition system to contact people outside of the chain of the petition system then surely using MSN in that context is a breach of the player conduct rules.
Now the web browser can be used to create a petition and has been designed to do so by CCP, so that is within the chain of the petition system. But if only a select few can use the batphone to Oveur or whomever it was then surely that is a staggering abuse of privilege, essentially saying that the petition system is for the poor people, we uber types can just chat with the devs when we want an issue resolved.
Assuming that it was true that this happened.
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Karlemgne
The Black Fleet Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:17:00 -
[1802]
Originally by: Svaha Norbu
Originally by: Hauler's Gal
Originally by: Svaha Norbu
You know, I would agree with you, but looking over the notes for the last couple of patches, I have to wonder how much net benefit we actually receive from CCP actively playing the game alongside regular players. ... It leads me to wonder if it would be more productive if CCP spent more time actually writing code and investigating problems rather than pewpewing around with their alliance buddies.
Good point - especially when the GM's turn round and say that there is no such thing as lag in Jita or Saila. They need to play the game on every level if they are going to play, not just sit with their BoD mates in 0.0. No lag in Jita? LMFAO - it's like saying there isn't any atmosphere on this damn planet... I undocked one evening, went to bed, woke up the next day and it was still a black screen. Eight fricking hours. But of course that's not lag... my ar*e.
Yeah. If the whole premise behind ccp playing alongside alliances is to identify and squash bugs, then they are failing miserably by any reasonable measure. I haven't been in EvE for as long as many people, (5-6 months) but there have been glaring, obvious, frequently identified, and totally reproducible bugs that have persisted through the entire time I have played. Camera reset bug anyone? How about drones? The lag infested buggy fleet system? rats spawning inside asteroids and shooting off the grid at 6km/s?
Shooting through PoS shields and bumping through shields with supercaps is now a "feature" and not a bug, you say? It reeks of a total lack of effort.
I would be more convinced that the we were getting something useful out of CCP playing in alliances if there was actually some sort of tangible benefit in bug fixes, but sadly this does not seem to be the case. I can look at the last few patches and they look a positively anemic effort in comparison to the legions of easily reproduced bugs that persist for months or even years in this game.
The whole premise is not that CCP needs to play the game to find bugs. If CCP is anything like any other MMO company (and it is or EVE wouldn't work period) there is a full-time QA staff numbering at least 30 who do nothing but look for bugs.
I think the argument is, not to give it merit because I disagree with it, that CCP needs its staff to play the game so they can have first hand information about game balancing, as well as putting themselves in a better position to understand how they'd like to change and improve the game in the future.
-Karlemgne
Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free. |
Pehova Mindtriq
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:17:00 -
[1803]
I think CCP is trying to be emo, why else would they try to inflict so much damage to themselves.
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Kasean
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:17:00 -
[1804]
I consider myself a pretty nuetral person. Everything I do, I do in Empire space. I mostly lvl 4 mission run, and sometimes I mine and arbitrage. I know I have a minor impact on this game. I have never joined a corp with anyone other then a small group of RL friends. I have no bias towards or against BoB or anyone else.
First I think CCP really messed up how they dealt with the T20 incident. But their human and everyone is allowed to make mistakes. Were I think the real problem lies is that they didn't put anything in place to prevent it happening with BoB again. It seems to me that you guys hugely profited from the BPOs and information enough so that it tipped the scales in your favor. So be it. But CCP should have had any employees who had ties with BoB move somewhere else. Yes, BoB could be innocent, but once your caught with your hand in the cookie jar, you will always be suspected of doing it. Cry all you want about accusations against you, but when you were caught the first time, you opened yourself up to this.
Also Bob, just a word of advice, if you said something like 'an unfortanate incident occured and were going to get to the bottom of this and remove anyone who has been cheeting or whatever from BoB.' I would have been happy and not cancled my accounts.
Again, I have no dillusions of my impact in this game. But I do know that I can impact CCPs bottom line, and hopefully they will realise they need to take a harder approach to these situations.
Just thought I would post the thoughts of someone who isn't tied to any organisations invovled.
3 Accounts canceled
ps. BoB, just a word of advice(from someoen who ran a endgame guild in another game), I would advice you to have your members shutup. Everytime they respond they just dump gas on the fire, even if they are well thought out constructive arguments. Nothing you can say here will help you, trust me on that one.
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express Frontier Trade League
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:18:00 -
[1805]
This is most disturbing.
The damage is already spreading throughout the internet and I had to go look around to see what the fuss was about this time.
It is clear that CCP Sharkbait did indeed make himself a member of a player corporation. It is fact that he also made himself a director. For what purpose we can't be sure. It has been stipulated that he was working on a petition, however the corporation in question has said they had no petitions concerning their POSs in operation. So if a petition did exist it was not by the owning corporation, which is possible. CCP Sharkbait has done similar operations in the past citing it as a more efficient method to gain information. It is deplorable that the CEO's petition asking about this situation was summarily deleted. That SHarkbait ignored efforts by the CEO of the corporation to find out what was going on. What I find most interesting is he's made no public ascertion that he indeed was working on a petition, or a bug report. He has remained silent. That is perhaps the biggest mistake. I'm still willing to give him a bit of the benefit of the doubt but it does look on the surface to be somewhat suspicious.
The next problem has been established as fact in this very thread by Dianabolic, a member of the Band of Brothers. It is clear by his posts early on in this thread that members of the Band of Brothers have MSN contact information for members of the development and ISD staff. This is inappropriate. Noone, certainly not a group that represents less than 2% of the game population, should have a means to circumvent normal tools provided to the player base.
It is also clear that this information has been used to circumvent the normal system. There is enough evidence to support such, and Dianabolic's post also cast little doubt that such has happened.
From what previously was established after t20 incident, it is clear that this is a violation of revealing identity information on the part of CCP staff and volunteers. Anyone that has established such a communication link needs to be removed, they have compromised the trust of the player base. Caused an even greater rift than existed beforehand.
Evidence some ask for. Well most corporations monitor your email and your im use from their computers. There should be logs if any such contact occured. Only a matter of someone pulling them from the company network. Shouldn't take more than a day. That's assuming adequate protocols were introduced after the previous incidents which we were assured they had been.
Any player found to have circumvented normal petition or bug reporting, or to have received inappropriate information through this communication link, needs to be removed from the game. It'll be in those same logs if CCP did as they promised last time and introduced appropriate measures to monitor their employees.
It is the existance of this communication link that has really caused the most damage. It is possible that it was done originally in the most innocent terms. That it was indeed meant for friendly banter, but if it is being used in a manner that allows an advantage for a group that constitues less than 2% of the player base then it is clearly wrong and exploitive.
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. |
Wylker
Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:18:00 -
[1806]
Originally by: "HankMurphy" Science and win.
Will you marry me?
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Cheng
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:18:00 -
[1807]
Edited by: Cheng on 26/05/2007 17:19:14
Originally by: Pudgy d'Noob
Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it.
They could fire all of their customers I guess. But, it would make more sense to just ban you.....
How does it make more sens to ban BL? On what grounds? And why on earth fire their customers? - WTF Are you talking about?
Don't act more stupid than you already are. - Why don't you post with your alliance ticker on?
--- Reikoku for the motherf00kin life. |
Mortamas
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:19:00 -
[1808]
goons are loosing and iron has already lost so bob must be cheating..... seams to be all ime seeing out of goons. really do we beleve everything ccp says ? then why beleve anything goons say there just getting ****ed that there cheats dont work anymore.
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Jonas Vance
Orion's Nebula
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:21:00 -
[1809]
Originally by: Shivalla
Originally by: Stahlregen
Originally by: Viktor Bout Goons go and play POTBS. In POTBS you have a Dev whos a member of SA/Goons. You are searching for an excuse to leave eve coz you ruined nearly every mmporg youve joined exept eve. You assimilated nearly every corp in your area and you still cant win this game. You cant win by blobbing and you cant win by leaving drama bombs. Zerg away...
NO DAMNNIT!
We're going to ruin this game if it's the last thing we do!
Hmmm... And now I can see it all clearly.
You are RUINING THE GAME for us all. Stop. Please.
And by "Us all" you mean BoD. Cry more pleaze. Your tears make me laugh. |
REALITY X
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:21:00 -
[1810]
They wouldn't be working for the U.S. Justice Department or the Bush Administration too, would they? Because then this would all make sense...
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Tanaka Kharn
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:21:00 -
[1811]
Quote:
Now the web browser can be used to create a petition and has been designed to do so by CCP, so that is within the chain of the petition system. But if only a select few can use the batphone to Oveur or whomever it was then surely that is a staggering abuse of privilege, essentially saying that the petition system is for the poor people, we uber types can just chat with the devs when we want an issue resolved.
Assuming that it was true that this happened.
For me this is the nail right on the head.
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General Xenophon
Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:24:00 -
[1812]
I think it should be very clear by the response of the play base, that this issue needs to be addressed. This kind of thing will only hurt Eve's image overall, and will NOT help attract more business to the game. The stockholders in CCP should also seriously consider this issue, as it undermines their very investment potential. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men." - Boondock Saints |
Jonas Vance
Orion's Nebula
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:31:00 -
[1813]
Originally by: AngryCanuk Someone suggested this in another forum....and the more i Think about it, the more I like the idea...
Format the database, and start everything over. Who knows how much corruption has allowed for this game to be skewed in favor of certain people.....
/signed |
Weatherman
Gallente Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:31:00 -
[1814]
My roommate works in the video game industry and I was just talking with him about this whole situation. We both feel really bad for the guy who was probably just doing his job who now has a bunch of children from the something awful forums screaming for him to be fired.
I mean, just take a step back and realize that a dude is probably worried about losing his job right now because there are some sore losers posting on alt accounts. I mean, I'm competitive when it comes to games, but that's messed up.
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ElweSingollo
Starlancers Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:31:00 -
[1815]
Ignoring the BoB are cheaters 1110110 angle etc which even if the actions in this case were proved to be wrong doesn't constitute that my own feeling on the matter is this.
ElweSingollo > if I was going to quit it would have been over the T2o fisasco
ElweSingollo > now I basically put it as read that some of the dev's/GM's/ISD are going to take the **** and cheat but I am past caring
Being honest I am sad that it hjas to be that way but hey wtf you going to do I either play this game and enjoy what parts of it I can't or don't.
CCP and Eve Online... It's not a bug, it's a feature
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Khorian
Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:32:00 -
[1816]
There is something wrong. CCP needs to control their Dev/GM commands better. The new IA seems to work as crime prevention and also they will now investigate this case. what I can see this case is not about BoB.
It's about a GM who handled his job poorly. He should have done it invisible to the players. Or he should have informed the Ceo if the corp. We don't know what he did so we can not argue about that. Logical thinking leads me to belive that it was nothing harmful and infact just his job, because he was visible to the Ceo. That is all about that part of the open letter.
ISD Events.... well. I have never been in one, but I would guess CCPs story department sets a rough outline for the events, concerning the outcome. So they can move the story in the direction they want it to go.
BoB members have MSN contact to CCP, so they say. Maybe some do, maybe they don't. I know as much as you about this (nothing). My last petition took 5 days to be handled, but it was handled in a good professional way. CCP CS is very good compared to other games btw. Who knows what other Alliances have contact to ex-players in CCP? We don't know and probably will never know. BoB is definately not the only alliance from which players became CCP volunteers / employes.
I agree that CCP needs to monitor Dev/GM commands better. From what I can see it seems to work lately. This "affair" seems to consist mostly of hot air. There are some accusations, but no real proof.
Avon is right when he says there are certain procedures to follow when dealing with crimes in game as in real life. Else we would live in anarchy and mayhem and drumhead court-martial. Like in the Middle Ages when they burned poor women and men as witches for shady reasons.
Please, please wait what comes out of this. CCP will investigate and inform us about what happened. Then make your decisions about leaving or staying. If this game is no fun to you there really is no point in playing.
Lastly I would like to point out that I am a lowly BoB grunt, since often people mistake the postings of BoB members as the general opinion of BoB as a whole. I want a cheat free game just as the next guy. --------------------- This is the signature
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eleuthereus
Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:34:00 -
[1817]
Originally by: HankMurphy The series of events that led up never needed to occur, but its not like they logged on and deleted someones fleet... the guy just picked a bass ackwards way of fixing something.
He did? That's all that happened? He just "picked a bass ackwards way of fixing something." Where did you read this in an offical response from CCP? Or, did Darkstar 1 just recieve some notification from CCP this is what Sharkbait was officially doing and he simply forgot top tell someone he was doing it? I was under the imporession as of 17:30 GMT that no offcial reply had been made by CCP and that Darkstar 1 had still not received an answer as to why Sharkbait had infiltrated the corp. Thanks in advance for supplying us with your information and its source. If you were referring to something else, please specify. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
SaIIy
Minmatar X1 Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:34:00 -
[1818]
From the information I have seen on Goon forums their whole game is basedon believing they are hard done by because they started playing the game late. They truly believe that others have a major advantage over them becuase they had a chance to win T2 BPOs, or theystarted the game 2 years earlier than they did.
If they were sensible and actually played as a cohesive unit then they could of easily made enough isk with their numbers to have the best T2 BPO library in the game. Instead of doing it the hard way they just accuse everyone else of impropriety and constantly demand that the elements of the game that require some effort to achieve are nerfed.
Best thing any goon could do in my opinion is log into character selection and choose "Terminate" for all their characters ... come back a day later and confirm for each too, then ask mummy and daddy to stop paying for the account.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:34:00 -
[1819]
Originally by: Weatherman My roommate works in the video game industry and I was just talking with him about this whole situation. We both feel really bad for the guy who was probably just doing his job who now has a bunch of children from the something awful forums screaming for him to be fired.
I mean, just take a step back and realize that a dude is probably worried about losing his job right now because there are some sore losers posting on alt accounts. I mean, I'm competitive when it comes to games, but that's messed up.
Your roommate working in a particular industry makes you an authority on nothing. I don't really care who's concerned about their job righ tnow any more than I'd care about some guy who broke any particular law being worried about going to jail. If you're not prepared to accept the consequences of your actions then don't do them. You'd know this of course, being an "adult" and all.
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Jonas Vance
Orion's Nebula
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:34:00 -
[1820]
Originally by: Khorian There is something wrong. CCP needs to control their Dev/GM commands better. The new IA seems to work as crime prevention and also they will now investigate this case. what I can see this case is not about BoB.
It's about a GM who handled his job poorly. He should have done it invisible to the players. Or he should have informed the Ceo if the corp. We don't know what he did so we can not argue about that. Logical thinking leads me to belive that it was nothing harmful and infact just his job, because he was visible to the Ceo. That is all about that part of the open letter.
ISD Events.... well. I have never been in one, but I would guess CCPs story department sets a rough outline for the events, concerning the outcome. So they can move the story in the direction they want it to go.
BoB members have MSN contact to CCP, so they say. Maybe some do, maybe they don't. I know as much as you about this (nothing). My last petition took 5 days to be handled, but it was handled in a good professional way. CCP CS is very good compared to other games btw. Who knows what other Alliances have contact to ex-players in CCP? We don't know and probably will never know. BoB is definately not the only alliance from which players became CCP volunteers / employes.
I agree that CCP needs to monitor Dev/GM commands better. From what I can see it seems to work lately. This "affair" seems to consist mostly of hot air. There are some accusations, but no real proof.
Avon is right when he says there are certain procedures to follow when dealing with crimes in game as in real life. Else we would live in anarchy and mayhem and drumhead court-martial. Like in the Middle Ages when they burned poor women and men as witches for shady reasons.
Please, please wait what comes out of this. CCP will investigate and inform us about what happened. Then make your decisions about leaving or staying. If this game is no fun to you there really is no point in playing.
Lastly I would like to point out that I am a lowly BoB grunt, since often people mistake the postings of BoB members as the general opinion of BoB as a whole. I want a cheat free game just as the next guy.
Wow. A BoB guy without an ego? I must be dreaming. Please tell more BoB members like you to post. The one's we have now are broken. |
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BuckWild
The Arrow Project
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:35:00 -
[1821]
Perception = Reality, but not necessarily the Truth.
Regardless of the truth, CCP needs to address the Perception.
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Red Gabba
Use Of Weapons
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:35:00 -
[1822]
Originally by: Etien Aldragoran
Originally by: Jack Target Goonfleet are hypocrites because they have a bad reputation.
They thought of a way of lagging the server during battle by typing in local "ofofofofofofo..."
You're an idiot. Fofofofo was a victory cry that other idiots used as an excuse to petition the Swarm when they lost, because they couldn't handle being beaten.
Was a victory cry, but used many times by the swarm during battle, which in turn is flooding local and considered a exploit.
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Karlemgne
The Black Fleet Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:36:00 -
[1823]
Edited by: Karlemgne on 26/05/2007 17:35:06
Originally by: Jack Target Goonfleet are hypocrites because they have a bad reputation.
They thought of a way of lagging the server during battle by typing in local "ofofofofofofo..."
That doesn't even make sense. Goonfleet are hypocrits because they have a bad reputation? What is the causal link between having a bad reputation and being a hypocrit?
Just curious, I mean, I can see how being a hypocrit can cause you to have a bad reputation, but I'm kind of lost about how a bad reputation makes you a hypocrit.
Please explain.
-Karlemgne
Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free. |
Dyeadmheet
Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:36:00 -
[1824]
Originally by: Avon The lynch mob mentality is not a sign of a civilised society, and it is something to be frowned upon. It is not cool, or clever, or helpful to think that just because you don't like the system you have the right to take the law in to your own hands. The correct action here would have been to raise your concerns with the IA department, and to wait for an investigation to be carried out.
But that is not the goal here, is it?
Not really, no. I'm not sure I really care to see this investigated or anyone punished. I just want to see the system changed such that there is no longer a conflict of interest because developers and other "insiders" are no longer allowed to play the game. Or, if they are, their characters are publically identified as belonging to CCP employees or ISD members and are not allowed to be in corporations or alliances that have normal non-CCP/ISD people in them.
There's no bickering. There's no lynch mob. No need for investigation. Just fix the conflict of interests! It's simple!
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Apple Boy
Gallente Duragon Pioneer Group GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:36:00 -
[1825]
This thread is so
can any dev post a a brief summery at the beginning with some Q&A for those that don't have time to read 69 pages of text?
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Camilo Cienfuegos
Caldari EP0CH
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:38:00 -
[1826]
Quote: What I meant to say was that if they are using MSN instead of the petition system to contact people outside of the chain of the petition system then surely using MSN in that context is a breach of the player conduct rules.
/Signed
If the direct contact between players and developers is resulting in a benefit to the player, then there should be a flat policy that CCP employees cannot disclose any insider information (much like the competition laws in the UK) on the game in any way shape or form through all out-of-game forms of communication on the threat of dismissal.
It'd be deeply unfair to enact such a policy retroactively, but I'd like to see that line drawn in the sand. As I've made clear, I think this is a storm in a teacup - but such actions would go a long way to mitigate the damage caused by the short sighted so-called "whistleblowers" here and would help bring back the trust within the eve community as a whole.
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Jonas Vance
Orion's Nebula
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:38:00 -
[1827]
Originally by: Apple Boy This thread is so
can any dev post a a brief summery at the beginning with some Q&A for those that don't have time to read 69 pages of text?
That picture is win. |
Factor Benz
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:38:00 -
[1828]
Edited by: Factor Benz on 26/05/2007 17:38:35
Originally by: Red Gabba
Originally by: Etien Aldragoran
Originally by: Jack Target Goonfleet are hypocrites because they have a bad reputation.
They thought of a way of lagging the server during battle by typing in local "ofofofofofofo..."
You're an idiot. Fofofofo was a victory cry that other idiots used as an excuse to petition the Swarm when they lost, because they couldn't handle being beaten.
Was a victory cry, but used many times by the swarm during battle, which in turn is flooding local and considered a exploit.
Fofofo was not used during battle, but rather as a victory cry. Believe whatever you want but it's been proven and said time and time again that talking in local has no impact on lag, regardless. I suppose those of you that have lost can keep telling yourself it's because of some text you saw in local after the battle. Nevermind that during combat the only text you will usually see in local is from whomever you're fighting.
You should probably stick to the topic so you can not only post in a fashion that belings in this thread, but maybe with the subject matter so fresh in your mind you can acheieve a small degree of factual accuracy. Just sayin'
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Etien Aldragoran
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:39:00 -
[1829]
Originally by: Red Gabba
Originally by: Etien Aldragoran
Originally by: Jack Target Goonfleet are hypocrites because they have a bad reputation.
They thought of a way of lagging the server during battle by typing in local "ofofofofofofo..."
You're an idiot. Fofofofo was a victory cry that other idiots used as an excuse to petition the Swarm when they lost, because they couldn't handle being beaten.
Was a victory cry, but used many times by the swarm during battle, which in turn is flooding local and considered a exploit.
No moron, we got told not to use it anymore after a sandy vaginaed moron petitioned it, and some other idiot took his whining at face value. It never was an exploit intended to flood local because the mechanics of chat don't work like that anyway, and only idiots ever believed that. Still we took the high road and stopped, because its pretty obvious, especially from you and your comrade that the general game public will believe anything about "goons."
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Slykette
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Posted - 2007.05.26 17:39:00 -
[1830]
This game has been flawed by in game "rule and policy makers" for some time. Everyone knows it and nothing does anything about it. The fact that you can not talk to CCP in ANY way is beyond stupid. I have called CCP's office, the "receptionist" hangs up on you. Funny eh? We pay these people money and can't discuss injustice being done in game with anyone other than in game GM's. Needless to say my days playing this are numbered unless the rules are applied evenly and you have a method of going over in game GM's when there is an issue with a serious matter in the game you are PAYING for.
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