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Tista
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Posted - 2007.05.23 01:36:00 -
[1]
Ok, now many people get confused when the term "stacking" is used, they seem to think that all modules that have a bonus and are "penalized" are in some way worse than before.
This is incorrect.
As an example of a stacking effect when you use multiple Energized Adaptive Nano Membranes (EANM) you do get a significant loss in module efficiency.
For example:
60% resistance this resistance with 1x 25% mod will infact turn out to have 25% more resistance in the small 40% portion left resulting in 70% (which is a 25% increase of the remaining 40%)
Another module of the same sort will then have it's effect reduced further meaning it will only get a 25% bonus from the remaining 30%. This also applies to Rate of Fire decreases and Capacitor Regeneration/sheild Regeneration.
Now that bit most people already understand, so here comes the bit that people don't get.
This is the part where you no longer get a bonus for multiple modules of the same kind, by this i mean if you use multiple modules you will ALWAYS recieve the same bonus as the first one.
So let's say you have:
100 capacitor 2x 25% increase in capacitor
The first one will give you 125 total capacitor.. this is to be expected, but as most people think the second one will not give you 25% more than 125.. it infact gives you the same bonus.
So you get 2x 25% increase from 100%
100 capacitor + cap increase 1 = 125 capacitor + cap increase 2 = 150 Capacitor.
Skills are uneffected by this so you get 25% more from skill which gives 125 Capacitor then with 2x modules you then get 50% of 125 added which should come out at around 182.5 Capacitor.
In effect this is not so much of a "stacking" nerf. Other examples would be sheild amount increase modules or damage mod increase modules.
This is also a good reason to train skills rather than attempting to short-cut them with modules.
-------------------- "this is the templar fighter used by carriers" Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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Marquis Dean
Demise and Vestige 9th Fleet
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Posted - 2007.05.23 02:09:00 -
[2]
16:04:57 Notify The fact that SMC rigs and cap batteries aren't stacked and never have been pwns your argument for lol damage.
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Originally by: korrey Marquis I have to admit, without you there wouldn't be much laughter in these forums.
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Gor Kraon
Minmatar Red Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.23 02:20:00 -
[3]
Your first example isn't even right as you forgot to apply "stacking nerf" to it. EANM is "stacking nerf" penalized just like hardeners, damage mods, range mods, boost mods, etc. Only the first module gives 100% effect, the next one about 81%, then 50 some...
The second example is also wrong if you are meaning SMCI rigs. They stack (but no "stacking nerf") fully, as in 100 cap +15% +15% would be 132.25 cap not 130 (as you say). Its simple math, 100 * 1.15 * 1.15 = 132.25.
Stacking =/= stacking nerf.
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill
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Posted - 2007.05.23 04:29:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 23/05/2007 04:31:46 Sorry Tista you fail at explaining the difference between stacked and stack nerfed.
If you decrease a value percentage wise, like with cap rechargers, the attribute is NOT stacking penalized, but it appears as if the absolute changes are getting smaller.
20% reduction of 100 is 20. 20% reduction of 60 is 'only' 15, but it still is a 20% decrease! This s an example of stacking with percieved 'penalty', but it is NOT the 'stacking penalty'.
Stacking means all effects are applied fully.
Stacking nerfed means, that after the first module, each subsequent mod that affects the same attribute will be PENALIZED in doing so. This is done by CCP to prevent imba setups.
Example:
Resistances are stacking penalized. If you fit multiple 50% hardening mods, the effectiveness is as follows:
1st mod:1x 50% = 50% 2nd mod: .87 * 50% = 43.5% 3rd mod: .57 * 50 = 28.5% 4th mod: .28 * 50 = 14% 5th+: negectable
CCP, clean up your act. |
Arkios Odymei
Incarnation of Evil
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Posted - 2007.05.23 04:53:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Arkios Odymei on 23/05/2007 05:02:46 I didnt see Sokratesz's post above me (which is pretty much correct btw), But I had already written this so im gonna post it anyways ;p
As Tista said, the +25% resists of the EANM (and any other hardener) only affect the remaining unresisted portion of a specific damage type (ie: 100% - Your resistance).
What Tista didnt mention was that there is an additional "stacking nerf" that is applied to the modules as more and more are affecting the same attribute, In this case resistance.
These "stacking nerf multipliers" also applies to ROF, Lock range/time, and Damage. I believe it does not effect Capacitor/Shield recharge or amount in any way.
Stacking nerf works something like this: (I believe there are about the correct multipliers) 1st mod = 100% effectiveness (1.00 multiplier) 2nd mod = ~87% effectiveness (0.87 multiplier) 3rd mod = ~58% effectiveness (0.58 multiplier) 4th mod = ~27% effectiveness (0.27 multiplier) 5th mod = ~7% effectiveness (0.07 multiplier) 6th mod = Dont bother wasting a slot to fit it.
All hardeners (with the exception of "Damage Control" type modules) suffer from this stacking nerf, and it is important to note that the stacking order of 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc is ordered from greatest magnitude to least.
So if you have a 55% active hardener, a 45% passive hardener and a 25% passive hardener, the 55% one would be stacked first at 100% effectiveness. The 45% hardener would be second functioning at 87% effectiveness, and the 25% one would be third at 58% effectiveness.
So with Tista's first example of EANM II stacking with Max comp. skills (+25% or +.25 multiplier to resist), Here is how the stacking would ACTUALY work:
Stock EM armor resist = 60%
+1st EANM II = 100 - 60% = 40 40 * 0.25(EANM II resists) * 1.00(stack nerf)= +10% resist 60% + 10% = new resist of 70%
+2nd EANM II = 100 - 70% = 30 30 * 0.25(EANM II resists) * 0.87(stack nerf) = +6.525% 70% + 6.525% = new resist of 76.525%
+3rd EANM II = 100 - 76.525% = 23.475 23.475 * 0.25(EANM II) * 0.58(stack nerf) = +3.404% 76.525% + 3.404% = new resist of 79.929%
+4th EANM II = 100 - 79.929% = 20.071 20.071 * 0.25(EANM II) * 0.27(stack nerf) = +1.355% 79.929% + 1.355% = new resist of 81.284%
+5th EAMN II = 100 - 81.284% = 18.716 18.716 * 0.25(EANM II) * 0.07(stack nerf) = +0.328% 81.284% + 0.328% = new resist of 81.612%
Originally by: Marcathonas Moros + huginn + bubble = super happy carnage time.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.05.23 04:57:00 -
[6]
My signature link perfectly strikes Tista's OP, wrecking for 99% logic damage. _ MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Tista
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Posted - 2007.05.23 05:05:00 -
[7]
i don't care tbh.. i just like posting crap. -------------------- "this is the templar fighter used by carriers" Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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Arkios Odymei
Incarnation of Evil
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Posted - 2007.05.23 05:08:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tista i don't care tbh.. i just like posting crap.
We love you anyways!
Originally by: Marcathonas Moros + huginn + bubble = super happy carnage time.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.05.23 05:11:00 -
[9]
BTW, in your "+25% capacitor" example, it's not 100->125->150, it would be 100->125->156.25 (not that such a high value module/rig exists, highest I know of is SMC-II with +20%, but if it would exist)
With 2xSMC-IIs (20% each) and 1xSMC-I (15%) rigs, plus let's say 3x PDS-II (5% each), you'd get: 100 -> 120 -> 144 -> 165.6 -> 173.88 -> 182.574 -> 191.7027 _ MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Tista
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Posted - 2007.05.23 05:12:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Arkios Odymei
Originally by: Tista i don't care tbh.. i just like posting crap.
We love you anyways!
<3 you too -------------------- "this is the templar fighter used by carriers" Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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Tista
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Posted - 2007.05.23 05:15:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Tista on 23/05/2007 05:14:59 Also i found a suitable solution to my bordem with playing eve.. or lack of playing eve as it were.
Starcraft II
lol i love blizzard for this game :P canny wait! -------------------- "this is the templar fighter used by carriers" Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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isk beggar
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Posted - 2007.05.23 05:51:00 -
[12]
Next time you don't care and feel like posting crap, write a lil note at the bottom saying 'But in the end, I'm a moron and all that I just posted is false.'
Just so newbies won't get confused.
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Tista
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Posted - 2007.05.23 07:04:00 -
[13]
Originally by: isk beggar Next time you don't care and feel like posting crap, write a lil note at the bottom saying 'But in the end, I'm a moron and all that I just posted is false.'
Just so newbies won't get confused.
That is trolling don't you know, and yes you are a moron for saying that. -------------------- "this is the templar fighter used by carriers" Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill
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Posted - 2007.05.23 07:44:00 -
[14]
gtfoplzkthx
your lack of contribution to the human race as a whole has been noted and you will be collected for reprocession in to biomass shortly.
CCP, clean up your act. |
Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.05.23 09:16:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tista
Originally by: isk beggar Next time you don't care and feel like posting crap, write a lil note at the bottom saying 'But in the end, I'm a moron and all that I just posted is false.'
Just so newbies won't get confused.
That is trolling don't you know, and yes you are a moron for saying that.
Imho posting completely false info and not even caring about it is worse trolling than anyone critcizing you for it...
Thank you SkyFlyer!
There is no 'n' in tur |
smallgreenblur
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.23 10:20:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tista
Originally by: isk beggar Next time you don't care and feel like posting crap, write a lil note at the bottom saying 'But in the end, I'm a moron and all that I just posted is false.'
Just so newbies won't get confused.
That is trolling don't you know, and yes you are a moron for saying that.
I did actually think your post would be useful before I started reading it. Having a detailed knowledge of the game mechanics and still being unable to understand wtf you are on about is probably not a good thing.
The dude that you called a'moron' has a good point, in that if you are just going to write a load of rubbish it would be nice to have a disclaimer at the bottom. Or failing that go post in CAOD or something.
Idiot.
sgb
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Aioa
Planetary Assault Systems
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Posted - 2007.05.23 10:56:00 -
[17]
Originally by: smallgreenblur Idiot.
qft
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Ivan Kirilenkov
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.05.23 11:05:00 -
[18]
Locked, please don't let criticism decend into personal attacks.
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