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Lord Frost
Minmatar The Crystal Method
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Posted - 2007.05.18 12:52:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Ki An
The Solution It's simple. Disallow freighters from entering high sec, just like all other capital ships. According to the item database, that is where freighters fall under, and as such they should be treated like what they are. This would allow trade in Empire to be undertaken by organized fleets of tanked industrials, making suicide gankers have a harder time finding profitable targets. It would also force alliance supply lines out into unsafe space, where they can be attacked, forcing protective measures to be undertaken.
It is a solution where everyone wins and everyone loses just as much. It's a balanced solution, and thus the only one as I see it.
Now feel free to discuss this. Hopefully you will see that this is the only way to please both sides of the fence.
/Ki
First of all... you can't just tell 1000s of frieghters to somehow move your ship to low sec. Second, other capital ships are capable of jumping... can frieghters do that? Third, this is the worst decision I ever heard. I don't see how you should make the victims here suffer.
The solution has been made. Concord will get a damage boost, and ganking will be far less cost effective. Bottom line, if profits can be made from suiciding, there's no point of pure combat then. Thus, no point of a actual combat oriented game.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2007.05.18 12:57:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 18/05/2007 12:56:04
Originally by: Ki An
Why does all trade have to go to Jita? I believe freighters are a big part of the Jita problem, and reading replies like yours strenghtens that belief.
/Ki
I edited the last two paragrpahs of my previous reply, this thread moves too fast.
It's not just Jita, it's any local trade hub. And it's not only the hubs either, just moving the ore/mins for production is a lot of moving.
You cannot get rid of hubs. People want conveniance, that means concentrating selling & buying. Jita is the biggest, but certainly not the only trade hub. However you would like things to be, there will always be one major hub, and many smaller ones.
For the record, I have traned up Caldari industrial all the way to 3, and will train it no further.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2007.05.18 13:02:00 -
[33]
I think Ki is just going for a "careful what you ask for" sort of solution. Maybe to teach the carebears they shouldn't whine so damn much.
Won't work though. 50 more lined up behind each one.
As to the freighter issue... There needs to be a problem in order for there to be a need for a solution. Only thing freighters need is some slots.
They "carebear up" the game any more, after nerfing Privateers... meh. Game gone stale I guess with craploads of carebears driving it faster in that direction under the guise of "making the game better".
Pfft. CCP needs to get medievil nasty for a bit. Devs say it's supposed to be a cold, unforgiving environment... and then they hold the carebears hands the next. Carebears ALWAYS cry and whine about how many customers will leave, blah, blah. Ignore them. Please! Let them leave.
Eve got popular without it being frikken Candy Mountain, Chaaaaaaarliiiiiiie. This community has gotten too knee-jerk reactionary to any difficult problem. Just run off to the forums and whiiiiiiiine until CCP makes it all better.
Cold, unforgiving game... Prove it CCP. I'm losing faith.
------------------- Say What? |
Kasshim
Omega Strike Force
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Posted - 2007.05.18 13:08:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Kasshim stuff
Why, please tell me, would a corporation that CANNOT or WILL NOT defend their freighter aquire one, and then deserve the sympathy of the EvE community for losing it? Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose should probably be expanded to don't fly what you cannot afford to lose and cannot defend.
There are possibilities for carebears in this proposal too. I hope you will be able to see through it and catch those possibilities, and what it can do for the good of EvE.
/Ki
I see the possibility of me and a few friends in BC's being able to take out a freighter that was careless to enter low sec with inadequate protection easily in your plan.
But I also see all the new whine threads of carebears complaining about it.
I'm all for trade in low sec since I won't have to haul ships 20+ jumps into a popular hub and can just sell them in the low sec system where I work but still I think your plan will make freighters useless and very rare to non-alliance corps. Small carebear corps that supply a lot of the empire trade will stop buying and using them and go back to the old way of hauling ships 1 by 1. Only the big alliances that can escort their freighter in reasonably sized blobs will use them. And that will still make the pirates angry since now they can't gank them unless they can field an equal blob to take out the freighter and its escorts. Not a lot of low sec pirate corps can do that.
I don't see your plan as a balanced solution. Would make me and some pirate peeps happy for a short time but that's about it. I will wait and see what the devs decide to do about it before making anymore assumptions or comments regarding the matter.
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Lord Frost
Minmatar The Crystal Method
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Posted - 2007.05.18 13:11:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Roy Batty68
They "carebear up" the game any more, after nerfing Privateers... meh. Game gone stale I guess with craploads of carebears driving it faster in that direction under the guise of "making the game better".
Pfft. CCP needs to get medievil nasty for a bit. Devs say it's supposed to be a cold, unforgiving environment... and then they hold the carebears hands the next. Carebears ALWAYS cry and whine about how many customers will leave, blah, blah. Ignore them. Please! Let them leave.
Eve got popular without it being frikken Candy Mountain, Chaaaaaaarliiiiiiie. This community has gotten too knee-jerk reactionary to any difficult problem. Just run off to the forums and whiiiiiiiine until CCP makes it all better.
Cold, unforgiving game... Prove it CCP. I'm losing faith.
This game isn't about finding a griefer tactic and manipulating game mechanics to outstretch the boundaries in what the devs intended Eve to be... just show you can get your rocks off and a few cheap lazy thrill kills. The true players here want balanace and pure combat. There's a wide variety of cold and unforgivign space in low sec and 0.0... thats your fault if you too scared to enter.
If you lost faith... can I have your stuff?
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Ms Savra
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Posted - 2007.05.18 13:13:00 -
[36]
If there were actually a problem with balance in empire then this idea would atleast have some merit. Unfortunatly thats isn't the case.
Inorder to achieve balance people suiciding would have to lose as much iskies in their attack as the defending party. The adjustments made to concord now mean you have to use more drone ships, or normal turret/missile ships.
I'm fairly sure you can still kill a freighter, but now its going to cost you more in the region of the loss of the freighter pilots ship (possibly + its cargo). Thats more balanced
I'm sure if you got enought people in caracals you could take a freighter down
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Kasshim
Omega Strike Force
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Posted - 2007.05.18 13:14:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Malcanis "Freighters are vital for alliances, corps and players - both in 0-0 and Hi-Sec"
This is completely correct, which is why it is essential that there be some reasonable method of attcking freighters piloted by those who hide in NPC corps to move stuff for their alliance.
We can either "nerf" freighters or "nerf" NPC corps. Personally, I favour the latter, but that would affect a lot more people than the former.
The man knows what he's talking about!
Signed! NERF NPC corps will put some balance and much needed fun for both sides.
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HothClonexx2
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Posted - 2007.05.18 13:15:00 -
[38]
ok so then what about the small corps who need to mass transport to survive?
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Zee Zen
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Posted - 2007.05.18 13:16:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Zee Zen PODS ONLY IN HIGH SEC
That is really the only logical solution to the many, many ganking problems. Sure, mission running and mining will be a little harder to do without a ship, but no one ever said EVE was easy. If you ram asteroids enough with your pod, I think some of the rock will rub off on you and you can shake it off back in the station. Kind of like bumble bees collecting pollen.
STFU troll!
/Ki
Don't be so protective. There are a lot of good ideas out there.
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Ki An
Gallente The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.05.18 13:23:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Kasshim I'm all for trade in low sec since I won't have to haul ships 20+ jumps into a popular hub and can just sell them in the low sec system where I work but still I think your plan will make freighters useless and very rare to non-alliance corps. Small carebear corps that supply a lot of the empire trade will stop buying and using them and go back to the old way of hauling ships 1 by 1. Only the big alliances that can escort their freighter in reasonably sized blobs will use them. And that will still make the pirates angry since now they can't gank them unless they can field an equal blob to take out the freighter and its escorts. Not a lot of low sec pirate corps can do that.
You mean sort of like how dreads, carriers, moms and titans are very rare among non allianced corps? Sort of like that?
Good thing imo. A freighter should NOT be used to hop over to the market and buy groceries. A freighter is an ELITE tool. It's built to carry, and not to defend, hence it needs a defensive organisation around it. A carebearing corp in empire is rarely able to muster such a defence.
/Ki
Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2007.05.18 13:37:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 18/05/2007 13:36:24 After thinking about it a little bit, I have to side with another poster here.
Either you are deeply ignorant of the Industrial/commerce side of the game and the logistics behind it, even more so then this noob, or you are not sincere in your comments and suggestions. If your goal is a figurative end to highsec, then make that clear in your post. Do not claim goals of balance.
Major trade will not happen without security.
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.18 13:39:00 -
[42]
Heh. Ki An, I am not in disfavor of your idea. A frieghter is a capital ship and should be subject to the same rules as the rest of them.
However, I want something in return: A industrial/hauler somewhere between a frieghter and the current haulers in carrying capacity. Something that is "hardened" for protection. The main reason? Hauling unassembled ships to market and fuel to POSs. A POS is a tremendous fuel hog <-----------> Factional Warefare:
The LowSec wars which never happened. |
Selena 001
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Posted - 2007.05.18 13:41:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Ki An You mean sort of like how dreads, carriers, moms and titans are very rare among non allianced corps? Sort of like that?
Oh right, the rare that really means if Carriers could move about in hi-sec we'd see hundreds upon thousands of them in empire running the missions?
Muppet...
P.S. the hundreds upon thousands may have been a slight over-exageration... you'd see hundreds in each mission running hub tho. ___________
NATIONAL SARCASM DAY!! |
Ki An
Gallente The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.05.18 13:43:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 18/05/2007 13:36:24 After thinking about it a little bit, I have to side with another poster here.
Either you are deeply ignorant of the Industrial/commerce side of the game and the logistics behind it, even more so then this noob, or you are not sincere in your comments and suggestions. If your goal is a figurative end to highsec, then make that clear in your post. Do not claim goals of balance.
Major trade will not happen without security.
Maybe it's you that is ignorant of how EvE works outside your cushy empire? In EvE nothing can be safe or secure. That's contrary to the game's design.
/Ki
Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
Ki An
Gallente The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.05.18 13:44:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Selena 001
Originally by: Ki An You mean sort of like how dreads, carriers, moms and titans are very rare among non allianced corps? Sort of like that?
Oh right, the rare that really means if Carriers could move about in hi-sec we'd see hundreds upon thousands of them in empire running the missions?
Muppet...
P.S. the hundreds upon thousands may have been a slight over-exageration... you'd see hundreds in each mission running hub tho.
You mean exactly like we see freighters in trade hubs now? What was your point again? Doll?
/Ki
Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
Ki An
Gallente The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.05.18 13:47:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Heh. Ki An, I am not in disfavor of your idea. A frieghter is a capital ship and should be subject to the same rules as the rest of them.
However, I want something in return: A industrial/hauler somewhere between a frieghter and the current haulers in carrying capacity. Something that is "hardened" for protection. The main reason? Hauling unassembled ships to market and fuel to POSs. A POS is a tremendous fuel hog
Yeah, I know about POSes having served as a low sec POS manager for quite some time. Problem with POSes in this argument is that they cannot be served by freighters anyway, so they are quite moot in this discussion.
Ships to markets however is a good point. I suppose that trade would be less polarized if the changes I proposed would take effect, but I don't see that as a bad thing. As for something between industrial and a freighter, how about a transport?
And, no, you don't need anything in return. We're not horse trading. War decs were nerfed. What did I get in return? Nanos were nerfed. What did the nano-phoon pilots get in return, or for that matter, the blockade runners?
/Ki
Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
jilahed
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Posted - 2007.05.18 13:49:00 -
[47]
Ki of course you are totally right. The new changes on Sisi are a shame because they prohibit the ganking of freighters in hisec at all. Thus we have another case of reward without risk.
Unfortunately the whiners always get what they want. ( well, not if theyre amarr ofc )
BUT: Your proposal is a bit extreme. I know many freighter pilots who have worked long and hard to get a small business up and running in empire. By far not all of them are whiny carebears who hate taking any risks. But forcing them out of hisec would ruin their playstyle for once.
They don't work for a big alliance, but have individual contracts with hisec-industrialists. Also they need access to market hubs, theres no reward in lowsec/nosec for them. And you know that a freighter escort in lowsec is much more difficult than in hisec. Small indy corps may not be able to guard them properly and why should they when there is no way for them to make money in lowsec?
Your changes would mean they have to throw their freighters and invested sp away.
I do think suiciding a freighter is a bit cheap atm, taking insurance into account. So this needs balancing. What is more important though - all races should have ships that can participate. Why only dominixes? Of course the answer (as we all know) lies in drone mechanics. I just think its not okay that gallente get all the fun and everyone else can do nothing about it. But this is the general route in pvp atm - and i won't turn this into a nerf gallente thread.
But as it stands if i can't use my geddon to suicide freighters effectively - why should i care about dominixes? This is more theoretical as i can fly domi too but my point is:
- Stop insurance payouts for suicided ships, so profit is possible but very unprobable. - Bring drone ships inline with turret and missile ships regarding suicide tactics(i.e. drones get jammed as well as guns/missiles). - Reduce structure HP on freighters to balance it again. Because the insurance means higher risk and jammed drones will mean you'll need considerably more ships to suicide a freighter.
Not sure if this would work - but i desperately want freighters to be suicided by turret ships too. That would be sooo great.
Of course even if it worked it would never happen. The carebears get their uber concorde and that's about it. Soon enough pvp will be eradicated from hisec. I am a lowsec pirate that can't even enter hisec anymore - so this wouldn't nerf me personally. But it's just wrong and i am truly shocked about CCP. I had great trust in them not to make a carebear heaven out of empire - but now i am not convinced anymore...
I really hope they will tell us in a dev blog soon what they expect from the possible changes to concorde mechanics.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2007.05.18 13:49:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 18/05/2007 13:50:02 Edited by: Qui Shon on 18/05/2007 13:49:42 Edited by: Qui Shon on 18/05/2007 13:47:38
Originally by: Ki An
Maybe it's you that is ignorant of how EvE works outside your cushy empire? In EvE nothing can be safe or secure. That's contrary to the game's design.
/Ki
Yeah, maybe.
So, the 10 biggest trade hubs, how many of them are in low/no sec?
Or would it be better if I reword the statement?
Without a good measure of security, no major trade will take place in this game with current game mechanics adn playerbase.
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Selena 001
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Posted - 2007.05.18 13:53:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Selena 001 Oh right, the rare that really means if Carriers could move about in hi-sec we'd see hundreds upon thousands of them in empire running the missions?
Muppet...
P.S. the hundreds upon thousands may have been a slight over-exageration... you'd see hundreds in each mission running hub tho.
You mean exactly like we see freighters in trade hubs now? What was your point again? Doll?
/Ki
Well. I think you were making a stab at the fact that frieghters are supposed to be elite tools. I dont doubt it... but you've lost your perspective... a battleship, to a noob is elite.
On the grand scheme of things its not that great, it just requires a capital ship skill and everyone starts *****ing about how it should conform to the same rules as the others without noticing that is lacks both the HP, the slots, the abilities and the jump drive capability that the other capital ships share...
I think thats kinda the point, move them to low-sec, then give them a jump drive... Then I forsee the next *****ing argument... ___________
NATIONAL SARCASM DAY!! |
Ki An
Gallente The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.05.18 13:55:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Yeah, maybe.
So, the 10 biggest trade hubs, how many of them are in low/no sec?
Or would it be better if I reword the statement?
Without a good measure of security, no major trade will take place in this game with current game mechanics adn playerbase.
Well, before ASCN were destroyed one of the biggest trade hubs/richest markets was in their home region.
Security there was all player made.
Security there lapsed when the invasion began.
Get my drift?
/Ki
Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
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Selena 001
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Posted - 2007.05.18 13:59:00 -
[51]
Originally by: jilahed Ki of course you are totally right. The new changes on Sisi are a shame because they prohibit the ganking of freighters in hisec at all. Thus we have another case of reward without risk.
No no no no no... They've changed it to how it should have been, you were taking advantage of an oversight. As it happens you cant web a frieghter into warp the same way you currently can.
So you've still got time to scram and kick the crap out of one. Its just gonna cost you about the same amount in ships / isk to take one down. Balance... see? You attack someone in empire and you get concoreded, as per the law, but you can still kill it if you get the right equipment (E.G your friends... like your always suggesting the frieghter pilots do).
Now you cant hide behind the "Our enemies are using the noobs to move the stuff" because the option is still there to stop them. Just gonna cost you a few extra ships. ___________
NATIONAL SARCASM DAY!! |
Ki An
Gallente The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.05.18 14:01:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Selena 001 No no no no no... They've changed it to how it should have been, you were taking advantage of an oversight. As it happens you cant web a frieghter into warp the same way you currently can.
So you've still got time to scram and kick the crap out of one. Its just gonna cost you about the same amount in ships / isk to take one down. Balance... see? You attack someone in empire and you get concoreded, as per the law, but you can still kill it if you get the right equipment (E.G your friends... like your always suggesting the frieghter pilots do).
Now you cant hide behind the "Our enemies are using the noobs to move the stuff" because the option is still there to stop them. Just gonna cost you a few extra ships.
Have you tested it? Done the math?
Do that, and come back to me with the results you get please.
/Ki
Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
Kuseka Adama
Gallente WOLFPACK DELTA
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Posted - 2007.05.18 14:03:00 -
[53]
Forget it. Unless freighters have jump drives they become worthless in your plan. No way anyone invests a billion isk for a ship that cant shoot. Especially when it doesnt have a jump drive
A freighter is a serious investment but not one i would drop the money OR THE TIME on if forced into low sec only. As i do not believe freighters with Jump drives are coming any time soon. Give me a blocade runner instead under those conditions.
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Selena 001
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Posted - 2007.05.18 14:06:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Ki An Have you tested it? Done the math?
Do that, and come back to me with the results you get please.
/Ki
Why should I have to test my theorys just because they dont agree with your theory?
Tell ya what, YOU test see if the game breaks with YOUR idea, THEN I'll test see if 50 caracals can gank a Frieghter on Sisi... seems perfectly fair seeing as you started the theory-craft first with your original post. ___________
NATIONAL SARCASM DAY!! |
Ki An
Gallente The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.05.18 14:11:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Ki An on 18/05/2007 14:09:29
Originally by: Selena 001
Originally by: Ki An Have you tested it? Done the math?
Do that, and come back to me with the results you get please.
/Ki
Why should I have to test my theorys just because they dont agree with your theory?
Tell ya what, YOU test see if the game breaks with YOUR idea, THEN I'll test see if 50 caracals can gank a Frieghter on Sisi... seems perfectly fair seeing as you started the theory-craft first with your original post.
But, I have tested it.
I tested with 15 hyperions (blaster damage), all with maxed skills and faction mods. Best I could find. They might have been able to take down a freighter in the 15 second window you have in a .5 system before you are jammed by Concord. The total cost of these 15 faction fitted and fully T2 rigged hyperions, flown by maxed out pilots stood a chance to pull it off.
See if you can calculate how much that attempt would cost on Tranquility.
/Ki
Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
Selena 001
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Posted - 2007.05.18 14:15:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Ki An But, I have tested it.
I tested with 15 hyperions (blaster damage), all with maxed skills and faction mods. Best I could find. They might have been able to take down a freighter in the 15 second window you have in a .5 system before you are jammed by Concord. The total cost of these 15 faction fitted and fully T2 rigged hyperions, flown by maxed out pilots stood a chance to pull it off.
See if you can calculate how much that attempt would cost on Tranquility.
/Ki
Ok... have you tried testing it OUT of stupid mode?
Faction fitted Hyperions? lol... certainly what I expect to see on a gank squad.... not.
I'm more than confident that 50 T1 caracals could do the job, unfortunatly, I dont have 49 more accounts, or the will to waste an hour of other peoples lives testing it out. If you insist I'll do some math and see if its possible... ___________
NATIONAL SARCASM DAY!! |
Ki An
Gallente The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.05.18 14:24:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Selena 001
Originally by: Ki An But, I have tested it.
I tested with 15 hyperions (blaster damage), all with maxed skills and faction mods. Best I could find. They might have been able to take down a freighter in the 15 second window you have in a .5 system before you are jammed by Concord. The total cost of these 15 faction fitted and fully T2 rigged hyperions, flown by maxed out pilots stood a chance to pull it off.
See if you can calculate how much that attempt would cost on Tranquility.
/Ki
Ok... have you tried testing it OUT of stupid mode?
Faction fitted Hyperions? lol... certainly what I expect to see on a gank squad.... not.
I'm more than confident that 50 T1 caracals could do the job, unfortunatly, I dont have 49 more accounts, or the will to waste an hour of other peoples lives testing it out. If you insist I'll do some math and see if its possible...
Please do that math, because I would love to see that.
I'm gonna do it too, and we can compare results later on.
/Ki
Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
Selena 001
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Posted - 2007.05.18 14:37:00 -
[58]
I've made an estimate... if the caracals get the ROF on a heavy launcher to 7.5s then they fire 3 volleys before concord jam them.... that means 3 * 5 scourge missiles * 50 ships... I think thats well above 160,000 kinetic damage (with high to max level caldari cruiser and heavy missile skills).
More than enuff to dispatch a frieghter right? If not, add another 4 or 5 caracals
Math bit:
Caldari cruiser 5 = 25% bonus to kinetic dmg Heavy missiles 5 = 25% bonus to kinetic dmg Scourge heavy missile = 150 * 1.25 * 1.25 = 234kin dmg
234 * 5 heavy missiles = 1170 dmg per volley
1170 * 3 volleys = 3510 dmg per ship
3510 * 50 ships = 175,500 dmg overall
More than enuff to punch thru 100K of hull and 75K left for the shield and hull.
Estimates of course... depends upon how many volleys you can get off before you die as well, but that seems ok. Fittings and ship shouldn't cost more than 5.5 million either... so 275million investment... Balance is still askew if you ask me ___________
NATIONAL SARCASM DAY!! |
Ki An
Gallente The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.05.18 14:38:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Yantazar Well Ki Ann, I have also read your posts on the "other" thread regarding this issue. What is the point on opening a discussion on a matter that you self admittingly decide that you have the solution. The arrogance in your post (and other posts) is astounding, but then this seems to be prolific in these forums.
So let us go with it. Eliminate freighters from high sec, and please, please, please, CCP ... let us know in a dev blog 2 weeks in advance. That way I can make billions in buying various stuff (work out what for yourself), when the price goes literally through the roof.
And, will the last player (of which they are many) that play this game to trade, distribute, sell, leaves this game ... can you please turn out the lights, and close the door behind you. Yes, I have demoted my intellect temporarily to yours for this "so called" discussion.
Hit a nerve with this discussion, did I? Perhaps you would care to concentrate on factual points instead of shouting "OMG!!! TEH SKY IS FALL1NG!!111"
/Ki
Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
Bentula
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Posted - 2007.05.18 14:39:00 -
[60]
You know what i think? I think capitals should not be possible to be suicided in highsec at all, and freighters are capitals for me. Unless maybe you used like 200 BS. Reason being that seeing how damn hard it is to kill a single supercapital with a really big group of dedicated players working together in lawless space, i honestly dont see why some suiciding carebears who farm unarmed ships based on some loss/gain math should get 100% guaranteed kills once they exceed 20 ships. Just cause some caracals can suicide a BS doesnt mean some BS should be able to suicide a freigther.
However, now comes the part the freighter pilots wont like. People in npc corps, that is corps that cant be wardecced, shouldnt be able to fly capitals in empire. There isnt really anything you can do with a dread or carrier in empire unless your in a player corp involved in wars or some pirate dude who is camping gates with his buddys in a nyx or something(i honestly dont care). But the only reason to have a capital and be in a npc corp is to avoid wardecs, now if people were supposed to be immune to wardecs there would be just a tickbox on your corpsettings "allow wardecs yes/no".
Now this may sound harsh to people who play this like a singleplayer game and dont want to be in a corp, but my reasoning is as follow:
If your a industrial person nearing endgame(flying around billions in a freighter is probably as endgame as it gets for solo indy types ) you should be in a industrial corp, just like pirates are in pirate corps if they want something more than casual 1vs1. There are many goals in this game you cannot viably archieve alone, i think if your a capital pilot you should be in a corp backing you up, cause i for sure have to be in a corp if i want fleetbattles.
Just make it some extension to the yulai convention that is also limiting carriers and dreads to lowsec. Since the npc corps are all related to the empires or factions somehow they agreed to "insert rp stuff". Endresult is that you wont get ganked in your freighter anymore, suicide gankers wanting to kill freighters would have to form up in a corp and declare war instead of the current situation. Which would mean more pvp, less ganking and everyone being happy.
I really dont want to bash on those singleplayers, everyone should play the game as he likes. But there are plenty of corps that have no expectations on their players at all(freelancing corps etc).
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