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Alexi Borizkova
Caldari New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2007.05.18 02:28:00 -
[1]
Ok, just an interesting little excercise here, I've always liked the idea of playing around with what new ships would, could, or should be like in my head, and I'd like to hear what the rest of you are thinking too. Only one ship class that hasn't entered the t2 arena yet, so that's an obvious place to start.(caps don't count, yet)
Only real parameters I'd place are: 3 t2 variants, ideally one for each BS model, each with different purpose. And which model for your chosen race should be each one.
I'll kick things off with my cogitations on caldari.
Covert Ops Battleship Scorpion model, Ishukone paint scheme.
Primary purpose: acting as a stationary intel gathering point in a system. Superior sensors allowing you to know who is in system even if they remove local. Additionally, an expanded map view showing enemy positions (after you get a web of sensors or probes deployed) allowing you to send gang waypoints to these places in system where the enemy is hiding, even if they are cloaked.
Secondary purpose: Provides gang wide sensor related bonus, perhaps lock range, speed, resistance to damps or ECM.
I would envision this as the sort of thing a dedicated fleet commander might fly, or his second in command. Offers new capabilities to its fleet, and makes it impossible to run from them in the same system.
Heck, it might even be interesting for it to have the ability to lock down all outgoing stargates in a system, by decloaking and having a cyno like beacon placed on its head. While this might overpower the ship, I dunno, it's an interesting debate.
Flagship Raven hull, Kaalikiota paintscheme
Primary purpose: provide direct tactical benefits to fleet. Damage, tank, that sort of thing. By neccesity this would be a ship nearly impossible to kill (allowing a fleet commander to stay alive for an entire fight, passing out orders from the thick of things.
Secondary purpose: More defensive measures, or the ability to choose a target and force all ships in fleet to target it, or perhaps give them an additional free target lock on a single primary target (if on grid) regardless of being damped, ECMed or lagged. The FC calls primary, and it is immediately locked and ready for you to shoot at.
I envision this ship in the thick of things, monitoring the battle from the front and passing out orders to the fleet. Offensive capabilities would be highly limited, with defense and fleet optimization as its main function. Focus more on new leadership modules and capabilities rather than stepping on the toes of command ships (which would serve as wing commanders or squad leaders, likely).
Heavy Weapons Platform Rokh hull
Primary purpose: Squaring off with capitals as a countermeasure. This ship functions on par or a bit better than a standard battleship offensively and defensively... until you activate some sort of module that places it in takedown mode. This reconfigures weapons and defenses to concentrate on one target to the exclusion of others. (countermeasures, shields, armor bracing, what have you) effectively giving the ship a significgant bonus to resists against a single target it is actively targetting, with a duration of several minutes.
I would picture the offensive portion to be akin to the siege mode, less tracking, speed, etc.
Secondary purpose: Scare the bajeezus out of people in expensive things. For three, or four, whatever, minutes you can designate a target to the exlusion of all others. Against that single target you are stronger, meaner, and eminently capable of doing them harm... but his entire support fleet has an easier time taking you out. It's a tradeoff.
I would envision this being used en masse as a counter to capital ships or as mini dreads for POS elimination. However, it can be flanked easily by a support fleet, and while it's "take down mode" is active it is softer than your average BS to other targets, preserving t1 BS in the game.
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Blind Man
Kemono.
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Posted - 2007.05.18 02:33:00 -
[2]
problem is with t2 bs
right now the biggest t2 thing is a command ship, and that can still be killed by a tech 1 NON CAPITAL battleship. as soon as you make t2 bs you now have a ship that is unkillable with anything other than a capital ship which might not even work depending on how good they are..
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Alexi Borizkova
Caldari New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2007.05.18 02:36:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Blind Man problem is with t2 bs
right now the biggest t2 thing is a command ship, and that can still be killed by a tech 1 NON CAPITAL battleship. as soon as you make t2 bs you now have a ship that is unkillable with anything other than a capital ship which might not even work depending on how good they are..
Exactly, which is why I would like to see the t2 BS do interesting things, but not just be a bigger better BS. The most combat oriented one of mine is actually easier to kill than a normal BS, except against one target it dedicates itself to.
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Idara
Caldari Missioners Anonymous
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Posted - 2007.05.18 02:40:00 -
[4]
Heavily tanked battleship, with great starting resists.
3-4 high slots.
No weapon related bonuses.
Purely there to serve as fleet commander ships.
Have a mini-Siege mode, allowing them to tank like an absolute mother****** allowing them to stay on the field and continue to call targets and organize their forces. --- in EVE - Idara |
Kivin San
Artificial Horizons YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.05.18 02:48:00 -
[5]
the covop bs intrigues me just a little. the thing that forcefully comes to mind is the commander role in the battlefield franchise games.
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.18 04:15:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Blind Man problem is with t2 bs
right now the biggest t2 thing is a command ship, and that can still be killed by a tech 1 NON CAPITAL battleship. as soon as you make t2 bs you now have a ship that is unkillable with anything other than a capital ship which might not even work depending on how good they are..
It's still ok when you can kill it with 2 battelships. Or 3.
I don't see anything bad in making a stronger version of the Battelship, like maybe 20-50% more fire power and a better tank - but then this should require A LOT of skills. More than for t2 bc. Give the veterans some kind of reward that is other than capitals (i think i can say that without being selfish, caus im not a vet and can't even fly a t2 frig). Someone who played this game constantly for 3 years should be able to fly something better than someone who is rather new and can fly the best non-capital shipclass (=bs) within few months.
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Alexi Borizkova
Caldari New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2007.05.18 04:22:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba
Originally by: Blind Man problem is with t2 bs
right now the biggest t2 thing is a command ship, and that can still be killed by a tech 1 NON CAPITAL battleship. as soon as you make t2 bs you now have a ship that is unkillable with anything other than a capital ship which might not even work depending on how good they are..
It's still ok when you can kill it with 2 battelships. Or 3.
I don't see anything bad in making a stronger version of the Battelship, like maybe 20-50% more fire power and a better tank - but then this should require A LOT of skills. More than for t2 bc. Give the veterans some kind of reward that is other than capitals (i think i can say that without being selfish, caus im not a vet and can't even fly a t2 frig). Someone who played this game constantly for 3 years should be able to fly something better than someone who is rather new and can fly the best non-capital shipclass (=bs) within few months.
Then we get to the point of obsoleting the existing t1 battleships. While fine for cruisers and frigs, I think the tech I battleship should be something that remains a vital component of fleet play in eve, not just a speed bump on the way to something bigger and better.... which is the world where "simply better" t2 battleships live in.
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.18 04:22:00 -
[8]
But they already can fly something better.
Fully t2 fitted with t2 guns... t2 BC's, dreads, carriers, motherships etc... Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Alexi Borizkova
Caldari New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2007.05.18 04:26:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ryysa But they already can fly something better.
Fully t2 fitted with t2 guns... t2 BC's, dreads, carriers, motherships etc...
To be honest t2 BCs don't really impress me. Toe to toe with a skilled BS they aren't that scary. As for the dreads, carriers, etc...
They don't go everywhere, and they may be bighuge, but they have a hard time with smaller stuff. Truth be told I'd never fear a pair of dreads the way I fear a pair of domis.
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Gerard Valentine
Gallente Direct Intent Blind Beavers
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Posted - 2007.05.18 04:31:00 -
[10]
This is probably just a throwback to the time back in 6th grade when I was reading Star Wars novels .
I envisioned a t2 battleship as an interdictor. It would have a cynosoral-like module that reduces it's speed to zero but can still activate mods and such. It would have a full 8 slot tank but only 1 highslot... for the interdiction module. The module would also require fuel and put a heavy strain on the capacitor.
I also liked the idea brought forth by the op of the "recon" battleship. Having a domi, geddon, scorp, or phoon with a huge sensor net deployed around them seems so cool.
But people would say "what about my current dictor?"... that would be the bomber. It would lay the time delayed bombs or perhaps mines. "Then what about stealth bombers?!?!" Allow them to use covert ops cloaks and cruise around and make "crippling strikes" on targets. Let them (before they decloak) choose some system or another to target (ie propulsion or weapons) and if they strike well (it would be a separate chance than the normal combat damage), it would disable that system for some amount of time... maybe 30s or a minute.
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.18 06:06:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Alexi Borizkova
Then we get to the point of obsoleting the existing t1 battleships. While fine for cruisers and frigs, I think the tech I battleship should be something that remains a vital component of fleet play in eve, not just a speed bump on the way to something bigger and better.... which is the world where "simply better" t2 battleships live in.
Yes but thats natural: a crow obsoletes a condor, a cerberus obsoletes a caracal etc. The mass would still fly a tech 1 bs as the skills will be hard to obtain (compare t1 bc with t2 bc and then transform this into bs). I don't ask for making it easy to be able to fly a bs.
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Phelan Lore
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.05.18 07:11:00 -
[12]
I dunno, but I want a blue core complexion tempest with square sails, like on the fleet tempest. -
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Nian Banks
Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2007.05.18 07:23:00 -
[13]
Flagships, allot of people like the idea, its natural to have a flagship in fleet combat so here's my idea, Its based on the classic scifi flagship. Were talking Robotech ala Starblazers ala Battlestar Galactica ala Babylon5 (the crusade) concepts. Basically a battleship with the capacity to fit one capital sized weapon, have a command module and a few light fighters, I.e. Frigate sized fighters, remembering that the carriers have cruiser sized fighters.
T2 Typhoon - Flagship
High: 8 (5/4) Medium: 4 Low: 7
Field command ship resists. A little more grid & cpu and an increased targeting range of 120km.
Battleship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret firing speed and 5% bonus to siege and cruise missile launcher firing speed per level.
Flagship Skill Bonus: . 3% bonus to effectiveness of Skirmish Warfare Links and +500 Drone Bay capacity per level.
Role Bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need. 97% reduction in Capital Projectile Turret powergrid need.
Introduce a new Light Fighter, 500m3 in size and with comparable stats to a rifter t1 fitted.
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Max Hardcase
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.05.18 08:16:00 -
[14]
A logistics BS could work. Remote hull reps please.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.18 08:22:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 18/05/2007 08:21:48
There are several trees of T2 ships
We have:
Interceptor - Interdictor Assault Ship - Heavy Assault Ship - Field Command Ship Covert Ops Ships - Fleet Recon Ships Logistic Ships - Fleet Command Ships Stealth Bombers - Field Recon Ships
It makes sense that T2 battleships will follow these progressions.
So how about making a heavy interdictor, a type of battleship that can fit a special mod that's in effect a mobile warp bubble?
How about recon battleships that can fit covert ops cloaks?
How about flagships that give additional gang bonuses per level of Flagships skill?
Of course, before any of this can happen, the roles of the T1 battleships will have to be looked at and tweaked, much as the frigates and cruisers were before we soaw any major role-out of T2 variants.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
sarabando
Caldari Council of Lords Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.18 10:51:00 -
[16]
id like to see a cap support ship.
picket ship Genesis hull: armagedon 7 highs 6 turrets base speed faster than a normal bs bonus' to damage and speed less armour/shields than normal bs. based on speed and damage but to limit abuse very small drone bays and quite fragile to stop nano *****ing by the gallente.
shield ship Salvation hull: apoc 5highs 4 turrets 99% cpu reduction in use of shield bubbles like pos bubbles but a hell of alot weaker similer tank to apoc
ect ect
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Hectaire Glade
Forum Jockey
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Posted - 2007.05.18 11:07:00 -
[17]
Very strong tanks, lots of utility slots, not so many turret/bay slots
Roles like mobile warp disruption bubbles, large radius ECM bubbles, mobile shield platforms (e.g. 10k AoE), targeted damage through cryno fields, large AoE target damping, AoE NOS, AoE MWD disruptor's etc, I kind of envision them as either being very defensively focused for allies in immediate proximity, or highly disruptive on enemies in immediate proximity, but not both, maybe 2 per race, one short range defence, one short range attack.
Lots of interesting possibilities, but they should definitely not be focused on damage unless they are specifically designed to be hitting equal sized targets and larger only, i.e. no tracking bonus and no ability to fit tracking enhancers, torps only etc. Cap ship killers only potentially, but that would only serve to continue to combat focus on bigger ships, which isn't good right now.
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Caffeine Junkie
Caldari Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada
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Posted - 2007.05.18 12:33:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Caffeine Junkie on 18/05/2007 12:32:33 I'd love a T2 battleship with HAC resists, ROF bonuses and an uber-tank, i'm sure we all would. The problem is, despite the near-capital level billion isk price tag that would undoubtably be involved, they would become nion-unkillable solopwn mobiles when roaming around low-sec.
To boost the damage and tanking ability to battleships to the level people are talking about they would also have to have a penalty for targetting / shooting smaller ships, so they are only really used against BC and above.
I would also love to see a mini-carrier BS with a big drone bay, drone control and remote rep bonuses to provide close up support to tacklers inside the bubble in fleet engagements. With excellent resists and tank, but no direct offensive weaponary. ___________________
Don't worry i'll put your loot to good use ;-) |
TZeer
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2007.05.18 13:38:00 -
[19]
Hmm, maybe a T2 BS without the offensive weapon bonuses, but with slightly better resists.
Like this maybe:
Same number of highslots as T1, but 1 more in low or midslot? Slightly better resistances.
Then maybe a special thing:
Buildt in cynogenerator, anticloaking pulse 50km? 100km?, warpbubble, better stats for the surrounding ships.
meh, really i dont know, just tossing out some ideas.
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Serric
Caldari The Clearwater Society Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.05.18 14:25:00 -
[20]
Symmetric.
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Christopher Dalran
Gallente Deadly Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.18 15:03:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 18/05/2007 15:02:02 I see a battleship with a special Jump drive array.
This array should have a very limited range, the range should be small enough to limit its jumping to bypassing gates (not systems) so that large blobs could be assaulted by any location other than jumping everyone through the gate they are camping and getting killed mainly from lag. The small range would mean that some systems connected directly by a gate might be out of jumping range (so you would have to ue the gate anyway) while some not connected by a gate may still be in range.
The jump drive should not require a cyno field to lock on to, however as before it would be limited to jumping very short distances (again only to bypass gates) and the location you jump in at should be random (high degree of inaccuracy when not using a cyno field). It should also use up the majority of the cap to overcome not needing a cyno field making it unwise to use unescourted near enemies.
The T2 battleship should also have the ability to take a limited number of smaller ships with them (maybee x ammount of mass) so that they could take a couple of cruisers with them to attack from another direction and provide distration while everyone else uses the gate.
The jumping process should also create a disturbance that can easily be picked up by the powerful sensors on Cov ops and Recon ships, It should show up on their overview so that they can warp to it cloaked and provide jump coordinates to defending ships. No other class of ship should see it on the overview.
This would mean you cant just jam everyone on the gate and be done with it, you would have to worry about several smaller groups bypassing the gates and attacking from another direction or even attacking some other resource to require some people to leave and defend it.
I think this would make attacking and defending alot more fun, maybee even help reduce blobs by making them less effective since everyone is not alwayse going to be coming from the same place. ------------------------------- C.D's Formula for success ------------------------------- Credit Card = Game Time Card Gametime Card = ISK Therefore Credit Card = ISK.
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Mia Kahn
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Posted - 2007.05.18 16:23:00 -
[22]
My thoughts on T2 Battleships: They should be fleet flagships focusing on gang bonuses and monster tanks over damage. They should be less effective than a standard fleet BS, but far more resilient, much like command ships are now. Maybe they should even come with a built-in -25% or -50% RoF bonus as to guarantee they are somewhat worthless solo.
As I am caldari, I will share my idea for T2 caldari BS, but the other races would follow a similar pattern.
All Flagships should be much heavier, and slightly slower versions of their T1 counterparts, but have greatly increased targeting range and sensor strength. They would have racial shield/armor resistance bonuses just like similar their command/HAC counterparts, on top of some kind of tanking bonus.
T2 Scorpion Role: Electronic Warfare Augmentation Platform. 6 Highs: 4 Missile, 4 Turret (just like the current Scorpion) 8 Mids 5 Lows
25m3 Drone bay 195000000 kg mass 180km targeting range 52 gravimetric strength 95 m/s base speed
Role Bonus: 100% Bonus to ECM Optimal Range 50% Reduction to Shield Booster Capacitor usage Ability to fit 1 gang module Flagship Bonus: 5% Bonus to gang members ECM Optimal Range per level 5% Bonus to Shield Resistances per level
T2 Raven Role: Anti-support. 8 Highs: 6 Missile, 4 Turret 7 Mids 5 Lows
50m3 Drone bay 205000000 kg mass 160km targeting range 42 gravimetric strength 98 m/s base speed
Role Bonus: 50% Reduction to Cruise Missile Precision 50% Reduction to Shield Booster Capacitor usage Ability to fit 1 gang module Flagship Bonus: 5% Reduction to gang members Guided Missile Precision per level 5% Bonus to shield resistances per level
T2 Rokh Role: Long Range Support. 8 Highs: 4 Missile, 6 Turret 7 Mids 5 Lows
25m3 Drone bay 225000000 kg mass 170km targeting range 46 gravimetric strength 92 m/s base speed
Role Bonus: 50% Bonus to Large Hybrid Turret Optimal Range 50% Reduction to Shield Booster Capacitor usage Ability to fit 1 gang module Flagship Bonus: 5% Bonus to gang members Turret Optimal Range per level 5% Bonus to Shield Resistances per level
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Tuea
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Posted - 2007.05.18 16:25:00 -
[23]
There's some nice ideas here but imo T2 BS need to be more vanilla based, special roles and features need to be very carefully considered for balance reasons. In alot of ways the devs had it easier with HACS and other cruiser/frigate sized T2 ships because they don't have the much larger HP & DPS of battleship sized ships. IMO T2 battleships and higher need to be approached on a more mathematical bases.
For example T2 BS should be no more than say 10% better than a T1 BS. It should always be possible for a well fitted tech1 BS to take down even a tech3 BS if the rock/paper/scissors goes against it.
The current tech1 balance between races with frigs/cruiser/BS is surprisingly good. I sincerely hope the devs approach balance of existing and future ships around this and also adopt the attitude of higher skills and bank balance = ever diminishing rewards.
Basically vets need to be given just enough of a carrot to keep them happy while still keeping new players in contention.
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Baru Pel
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Posted - 2007.05.18 17:08:00 -
[24]
I like the idea of combining the bonuses off of logistics ships with the bonuses of the fleet command ships. Add in some low level resistance bonuses, a moderate sized drone bay, and a huge (really really really huge)increase in Hull hps.
4/6 highs no weapons slots, 4/6/7 med slots, 6/7/8 low slots.
2 rig slots. minimal grid+cpu over the tier 1 class bs's. very long lockrange, 8 targets max, decent lockspeed. 400-500 ish sig radius.
this would give you a very well defended ship with little to no offence, but excellent logistics capablities to support fleets, and med/lg size gangs.
you could also split them in to "covert-ops", "logistics", "ewar" classes to fill in the missing level that the af-hac-CBC tree.
that and a scary t2 mining/slavo one, but you would need the t2 version of the frigs first.
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Royaldo
KVA Noble Inc. Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.18 17:25:00 -
[25]
gah with the new age titans.. why not just make us t2 bs's? uber resists, uber tanka and wtfbbqkladdkaka dmg!!
have them cost 2-3b isk. that way we would be sure eve is won by bob before august comes around.
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Talos Darkhart
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Posted - 2007.05.18 17:29:00 -
[26]
Hmm somthing really different a point defence BS like a destroyer but practical get's Massive bonuses to tracking and a bonus to hitting things with a smaller sig radius but instead of a penelty to rof it get's a penelty to hitting things with a large sig radius.
So say the sig radius of a dessie/dictor is the center point as things get smaller than that it delivers more dmg/hits more however as you get to things cruiser and larger size the dmg/chance to hit is lessened till it does minimal dmg to battleships and cap ships?
Now making this work story wise would be quite hard and it may involve a specifc turret or change to the current various low end turrets but could be kinda fun and usefull
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Andargor theWise
Collateral Damage Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.05.18 17:34:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Serric Symmetric.
Win.
I concur with the idea of a strong defensive and gang bonus oriented ship.
- Got grief?
Revelations MySQL Database |
Dray
Caldari Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.05.18 17:52:00 -
[28]
I dont really like the idea from an economic pov, lots of people with r&d will be rubbing there hands at the thought of the bpo for one of these, they will do a lot of damage to an already unstable t2 market with regards to t2 monopolies.
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Nifel
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.18 18:11:00 -
[29]
A blink-ability with a cooldown of 5 minutes \o/. Jump-drive ability \o/. Fighters \o/.
"When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: Sama |
Alexi Borizkova
Caldari New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2007.05.18 18:21:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba
Originally by: Alexi Borizkova
Then we get to the point of obsoleting the existing t1 battleships. While fine for cruisers and frigs, I think the tech I battleship should be something that remains a vital component of fleet play in eve, not just a speed bump on the way to something bigger and better.... which is the world where "simply better" t2 battleships live in.
Yes but thats natural: a crow obsoletes a condor, a cerberus obsoletes a caracal etc. The mass would still fly a tech 1 bs as the skills will be hard to obtain (compare t1 bc with t2 bc and then transform this into bs). I don't ask for making it easy to be able to fly a bs.
That's the thing, most of the battleship pilots I meet today *have* just about every conceivable thing trained that could be a skill requirement. Unless it is some new roadblock skill.
I still believe that the t1 BS should stay true to their name as the "backbone of any fleet" and be common place, not just a noobmobile you fly while training the t2. Even with "big pricetags and high skill reqs" a super BS would be trained for and would see more use if it was plain out simply better than the t1 version in every way.
Maybe its just me, but I like the idea of giving them specific roles, not just "more tank, more gank, more pwn" as the afs, hacs and inties got.
Originally by: Serric Symmetric.
I concur, so freaking hard. As per sig.
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