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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16060
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:22:53 -
[1] - Quote
"JUST BUFF NULLSEC"
The above were the words of many high sec partisan posters on these forums when, in the past, some of us pointed out that there was an imbalance caused by the combination of too much safety and way too lucrative activities in high sec like Incursions and burner mission blitzing that lets you STILL make as much is as a Super Carrier in null sec anoms.
the Guide wrote:With the introduction of Burner missions to Lv4 mission agents it has become somewhat trivial to consistently make well in excess of 200 million isk per hour with just a little bit of training and preparation. This can be done on a single, well trained character in the relative safety of Hi-Sec, indefinitely.
The reply from the partisans was the same every time. Don't nerf my high sec activities! "JUST BUFF NULL" if you aren't making enough!
This and the Rorqual prove that you can NOT just buff other places to mask the imbalances of high sec. While this will be unpopular to say here, I'll say it anyways, I support this nerf and thing that it doesn't go far enough. CCP needs to also do something about how AFK-able null sec anoms are. You should have to be at your keyboard to make PVE isk in EVE.
And when CCP is done nerfing null sec income to something more reasonable, they HAVE to have a look at high end high sec PVE too, Incursions, burner blitzing, SOE high sec missions and the lot. Hell, it's still possible to make more blitzing lvl 3 missions in high sec than you'd get using the same ship in null. (I spent part of last week seeing if this still works btw, it does if you stick to SOE or Thukker agents). |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16060
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:25:48 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why:We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What:- Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
- Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
- Support Fighters: No Change
- Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
- NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.
We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.
In addition to my last post I did want to say that while this is necessary, it may just drive folks to do other things. Incursions are still a thing yes, but there is also the issue of blitzing lvl 5 missions with carriers and supers which will make more income than supers and carriers can now. People don't do it as much because anoms existed, but that might change.
I know you guys are working on PVE after our talks in the BR Sotiyo thread, so thanks. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16060
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:31:33 -
[3] - Quote
Madbuster73 wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote:
If you wan to slow down PVE income - reduce bounty, or increase the rat EHP.
THIS ^^
NOT this. Why punish everyone when Carriers and supers are the problem?
I didn't jump on the Carrier/Super Carrier ratting bandwagon (nor the Rorq bandwagon) because I knew this would happen eventually. I rat in sub capital ships and should not have to have a harder time because everyone else jumped on an isk making FOTM.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16060
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:39:04 -
[4] - Quote
Linda Bradford Raschke wrote:Lucian James wrote:http://i.imgur.com/1Zp87xk.png i just made this :D
#CCPigs You forgot to label the AFK VNIs and Ishtars in the background.
This cannot be said enough though. if ALL CCP does is nerf carriers and supers and rorqs people will just compensate with legions of VNIs and more barges and in some cases moving alts to high sec to run incursions (just like the last time CCP nuked anoms).
If CCP wants to fix the problem there needs to be a comprehensive review of isk making, not these seemingly one off nerfs. As it stands people will just shift. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16060
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:41:44 -
[5] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:"JUST BUFF NULLSEC" The above were the words of many high sec partisan posters on these forums when, in the past, some of us pointed out that there was an imbalance caused by the combination of too much safety and way too lucrative activities in high sec like Incursions and burner mission blitzing that lets you STILL make as much is as a Super Carrier in null sec anoms. the Guide wrote:With the introduction of Burner missions to Lv4 mission agents it has become somewhat trivial to consistently make well in excess of 200 million isk per hour with just a little bit of training and preparation. This can be done on a single, well trained character in the relative safety of Hi-Sec, indefinitely. The reply from the partisans was the same every time. Don't nerf my high sec activities! "JUST BUFF NULL" if you aren't making enough! This and the Rorqual prove that you can NOT just buff other places to mask the imbalances of high sec. While this will be unpopular to say here, I'll say it anyways, I support this nerf and thing that it doesn't go far enough. CCP needs to also do something about how AFK-able null sec anoms are. You should have to be at your keyboard to make PVE isk in EVE. And when CCP is done nerfing null sec income to something more reasonable, they HAVE to have a look at high end high sec PVE too, Incursions, burner blitzing, SOE high sec missions and the lot. Hell, it's still possible to make more blitzing lvl 3 missions in high sec than you'd get using the same ship in null. (I spent part of last week seeing if this still works btw, it does if you stick to SOE or Thukker agents). You do realize this nerf to carriers makes AFKTars more attractive. It isn't carriers that needed nerfing, it was just the "easiest" way due to laziness at CCP and not having the know how to "balance" income. Running highsec Incursions is a far higher income stream than a single carrier in nul - CCP won't touch those for fear of losing highsec bears.
Did you not read my posts? I highlighted the part about the issue with VNIs and have been talking about that in other posts, as well as incursions. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16060
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:44:38 -
[6] - Quote
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
The economy here is obeying supply and demand. If you reduce the ISK generation -> less ISK on market -> less people buying PLEX -> PLEX price goes down -> people start buying PLEX again -> balance.
+1
This is the thing that people miss. Just like how nerfing rorqs makes the price rebound which means that while you are making less isk, the isk you make is worth more.
These nerfs actually mean better income for ratters. The escalation nerf means deadspace loot will be worth more, and this carrier nerf means even less escalations and less isk stuff into the economy which eventually might mean lower plex prices = easier to plex with less time ratting.
People can be so self centered they don't know when they are being helped.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16062
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:52:33 -
[7] - Quote
I said this on reddit but I'll say it here too. I know it won't stop the freak out because people can be pretty dumb when it comes to money, but here it is anyways.
People are too short sighted to understand that these nerfs (this one to carriers/supers and the one about escalations) end up helping people by making deadspace loot and pirate BS BPCs way more valuable across the board. It shifts the income making from anom grinding to doing 10/10s (sure you have to grind for them, but the fewer times you get them will eventually be made up by price after the current stockpiles are depleted). This is a good thing. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16063
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:58:50 -
[8] - Quote
JC Mieyli wrote:
so in short all this does is make isk scarcer and more valuable it makes plex more scarcer and more valuable it makes isk harder to obtain and encourages plex sales from players who struggle to farm isk
All of these are good things.
When I started ratting and getting 20 mil isk ticks in 2011 I was like WOW, 20 mil. 20 mill per tick back then meant I was RICH lol.
CCP buffed somethings and over time it took more and more and more ratting just to get the same amount of "purchasing power" I had in 2011. Now i got a Rattlesnake that can do 40 mil ticks and the feeling is like "meh"
It won't happen overnight, CCP screwed up when they opened up these big isk and mineral faucets and let them run for so long, be eventually things will settle and PVe activities in null will fell like they are worth it again as you don't have to grind near as much.
As I said, people are just too short sighted to see that this ends up being a good thing, especially for us who rat.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16063
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:00:28 -
[9] - Quote
Sassura wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I said this on reddit but I'll say it here too. I know it won't stop the freak out because people can be pretty dumb when it comes to money, but here it is anyways.
People are too short sighted to understand that these nerfs (this one to carriers/supers and the one about escalations) end up helping people by making deadspace loot and pirate BS BPCs way more valuable across the board. It shifts the income making from anom grinding to doing 10/10s (sure you have to grind for them, but the fewer times you get them will eventually be made up by price after the current stockpiles are depleted). This is a good thing. People who don't agree with you may not be dumb. They may simply feel that a substantial nerf to fighters is not the best way to go about making the changes that this game needs.
I know that CCP has been heavy handed in the past. BUT it's easy to look at the MERs, see when carriers got buffed, see the explosion of null sec bounty generation, and understand that fighters were the cause of that.
This one time, CCP is nerfing the actual cause of the problem.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16063
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:20:47 -
[10] - Quote
Sassura wrote:[That doesn't mean that there won't be frustration and backlash when they introduce heavy nerfs to fix problems that, essentially, they have caused.
I've been saying this to CCP on these forums for years. They create their own problems by not understanding that they have to be careful about giving people stuff that is too powerful, because people get used to it and feel like you took something away when you balance it.
My 1st brush with this was high sec lvl 5 missions. CCP introduced lvl 5 missions to give people incentive to go to low sec, but a bug let you spawn the actual mission in high sec if you were in a low sec system that bordered high sec. A whole high sec lvl 5 community spawned around this. And CCP took YEARS to fix it. So when they did the cry was "why did you remove lvl 5s from high sec?!?!?!?".
They tried to explain that they should have never been there in the 1st place but it was too late, the anger was already there.
CCP did this again and again, lately with ratting carriers and rorqs. You can see by this thread and others how it's being perceived.
CCP, stop putting OP stuff in in the 1st place and this won't happen.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16063
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mierin Arthie wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why:We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What:- Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
- Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
- Support Fighters: No Change
- Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
- NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.
We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Why not just reduce bounty payouts? Isnt that the problem? Please CCP, you should have at least 2 functioning braincells available at the office. Rub them togeather and you should be able to come up with something better than this. It would also go a long way in preventing errors like last nights skill pause script.
Telling people to rub braincells together while sayhing something dumb lol. This must be the internet.
Why should they punish everyone when carrier/super ratters are the problem?
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16063
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:25:57 -
[12] - Quote
Fl4chz4ng3 wrote:As always wh people will be happy and the others not
Tks for this change you just lost 2 subscriptions
Enjoy your subcaps 20m ticks people !
My Rattlesnake does 40.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16063
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:35:11 -
[13] - Quote
Radious Servasse wrote:I think I might hate this change, but I do understand economics. The only real reason I rat these days is for plex and ships to blow up. When 90% of my time ratting is done just to get plex and 10% for ships, the game turns into a job. By reducing the amount carriers can make, there will be alot more effort required to grind a plex and such more players will leave the game. Over time, this new lack of demand will reduce plex prices to a more affordable level and those remainding will enjoy once again affordable plex prices. When the plex price finally falls, carrier ratting will once again be feasible.
Real nice plan CCP. I hope it works.
More isk means more expensive items and ships.
it doesn't work that way, and what you describe is actually the thing that bothers most people but shouldn't/
They think that their income is going down but everything else will cost the same. but it won't, the reason we got here is because soooo many people could make soooo much isk that prices went up and up. They buffed the escalation rat which made DED loot from 8/10s and 10/10s plummet in price, meaning that you had to do more escalations to make the same isk you used to and people who just sold the escalaitons made less.
Now escalations will be worth more. Deadspace loot with eventually be worth more. Pirate BS blueprints will eventually be worth more. The loot you get from Faction spawns in havens and sanctums will eventually be worth more. The actual isk in you wallet will be worth more.
CCp screwed up with income, and it should not have had to come to this, BUT there are good things that will eventually come from this specific change and the changes coming to escalations and pirate BS build costs.
It's actually a very good time to be a null sec ratter. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16067
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:39:56 -
[14] - Quote
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
The problem here is the devaluation of ISK, when group of players generate way too much of it. Players who do not generate that much then suffer and are poor. And its getting worse, when ISK sinks do not remove the excess ISK from game. Scissors are opening wider. Its quite complicated, thats why they have economist in the team.
Perfectly well said. What carriers and supers have done is devalue isk, meaning that you have to rat even longer even with a carrier or super to make enough for a plex.
In addition to that, soooo many escalations meant that the deadspace loot was near worthless.
A lot of players are too young in the game to remember when doing a DED site and getting a good drop meant you had enough isk for 2 months of game time (when plex was 500 mil and a Mach blueprint would get you 1 bil, getting that BPc was HITTING THE LOTTERY).
Now you have to do like 10 DED 10/10s to get enough loot to turn into ONE month of game time.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16067
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:43:53 -
[15] - Quote
Count Basie Thellere wrote:Not impressed. Every time I spend ages training to get into a ship with good specs CCP nerfs them. Makes me wonder why I waste my time with this game.
Smart people learn that following the Flavor of the month is bad.
While everyone around me was ratting with Carriers or afking with ishtar's, I stuck to my MJD Rattlesnake. I told my bros "they are going to nerf those you know".
Find something you like that works but isn't the FotM. Those things always get the axe. Happens in PVP too, which is why I never got to fond of the Orthrus, because they are going to nerf those things lol. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16067
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:44:40 -
[16] - Quote
Fl4chz4ng3 wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Fl4chz4ng3 wrote:As always wh people will be happy and the others not
Tks for this change you just lost 2 subscriptions
Enjoy your subcaps 20m ticks people !
My Rattlesnake does 40 and can MJD out of trouble. This is still ridiculous compare to the sp, isk, risk you invest compare to a carrier/super ratting !
Which is why it was dumb to rely on a carrier...
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16069
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:52:47 -
[17] - Quote
Panther X wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Count Basie Thellere wrote:Not impressed. Every time I spend ages training to get into a ship with good specs CCP nerfs them. Makes me wonder why I waste my time with this game. Smart people learn that following the Flavor of the month is bad. While everyone around me was ratting with Carriers or afking with ishtar's, I stuck to my MJD Rattlesnake. I told my bros "they are going to nerf those you know". Find something you like that works but isn't the FotM. Those things always get the axe. Happens in PVP too, which is why I never got to fond of the Orthrus, because they are going to nerf those things lol. Carriers were never FOTM. I've been ratting in carriers for years. Subcaps just take too long to move on. Maybe I have too short an attention span, I don't know, but carrier ratting has been around a lot longer than the last expansion you know. Flavour of the Month, indeed.
Don't be ignorant. You know (or should know) that not as many people were carrier/super ratting before the fighter changes. People across EVE were more likely to use AFKtars with multiple characters.
Have you looked at CCPs economic report? Would you like for me to post the one before the fighter changes and the one right after the fighter changes that show a spike in null sec bounties? Would you like to see the zkill stats for the same period that shows more carriers dying with npcs on the KM after the fighter changes (meaning more carriers in anoms)?
Yes carriers and supers became the FOTM for ratting, the proof is available in the places I mentioned if you don't believe this. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16069
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:53:52 -
[18] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Sassura wrote:[That doesn't mean that there won't be frustration and backlash when they introduce heavy nerfs to fix problems that, essentially, they have caused.
I've been saying this to CCP on these forums for years. They create their own problems by not understanding that they have to be careful about giving people stuff that is too powerful, because people get used to it and feel like you took something away when you balance it. My 1st brush with this was high sec lvl 5 missions. CCP introduced lvl 5 missions to give people incentive to go to low sec, but a bug let you spawn the actual mission in high sec if you were in a low sec system that bordered high sec. A whole high sec lvl 5 community spawned around this. And CCP took YEARS to fix it. So when they did the cry was "why did you remove lvl 5s from high sec?!?!?!?". They tried to explain that they should have never been there in the 1st place but it was too late, the anger was already there. CCP did this again and again, lately with ratting carriers and rorqs. You can see by this thread and others how it's being perceived. CCP, stop putting OP stuff in in the 1st place and this won't happen. I cannot wait to see the outcry when the T3 changes finally come through.
Not enough popcorn in the world for that one.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16070
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:00:03 -
[19] - Quote
Dengdeng Xiao wrote:so, i see ....this game is, if you don't have three or four account ,then you fxxk off ?
why you just nerf carriers? the mutiple players using smart bomb ratting has been ignored? let em go?
ok, ccp, u win .
i'm out.
Smartbomb ratting havens takes multiple characters and ONLY works on a couple of anom types (good luck smart bomb ratting a Gas Cloud Haven lol). |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16070
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:01:36 -
[20] - Quote
Panther X wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Panther X wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Count Basie Thellere wrote:Not impressed. Every time I spend ages training to get into a ship with good specs CCP nerfs them. Makes me wonder why I waste my time with this game. Smart people learn that following the Flavor of the month is bad. While everyone around me was ratting with Carriers or afking with ishtar's, I stuck to my MJD Rattlesnake. I told my bros "they are going to nerf those you know". Find something you like that works but isn't the FotM. Those things always get the axe. Happens in PVP too, which is why I never got to fond of the Orthrus, because they are going to nerf those things lol. Carriers were never FOTM. I've been ratting in carriers for years. Subcaps just take too long to move on. Maybe I have too short an attention span, I don't know, but carrier ratting has been around a lot longer than the last expansion you know. Flavour of the Month, indeed. Don't be ignorant. You know (or should know) that not as many people were carrier/super ratting before the fighter changes. People across EVE were more likely to use AFKtars with multiple characters. Have you looked at CCPs economic report? Would you like for me to post the one before the fighter changes and the one right after the fighter changes that show a spike in null sec bounties? Would you like to see the zkill stats for the same period that shows more carriers dying with npcs on the KM after the fighter changes (meaning more carriers in anoms)? Yes carriers and supers became the FOTM for ratting, the proof is available in the places I mentioned if you don't believe this. Don't be insulting because you are behind the meta. I have known about carrier ratting and super ratting for years. and have made billions on it. More people have been doing it lately, yes, but that doesn't make it Flavour of the Month. Rorquals, now that is a different story. There's no need to be rude because you are stuck in your own little world and are afraid to try something else. I was carrier and super ratting long before carriers and fighters were changed and will continue to do so. Who knows? I may start ratting in my titan again and getting even more dank ticks. Don't think you can look down your nose at anyone because you think your way is best though.
Thought I'd stop by and highlight the one part that makes something FOTM. |
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16070
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:03:38 -
[21] - Quote
Sam Khanid wrote:It's not just the nerf, its the size and scope of it as well -- damage coupled with increased targeting from rats -- I didn't believe people when they were telling me about it. I thought, no way they're that rash to nerf two different contributors at the same time but such huge margins...
Guess I was wrong, and as a principle of program design--this is something we are warned in class not to ever do. Don't change multiple variables simultaneously by large margins. Bad things happen.
You didn't know that CCP does multiple nerfs at a time? Like they have since 2003?
You must be really new lol.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16070
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:40:33 -
[22] - Quote
Mute Karimar wrote:When I compare my almost maxed Rattle-skills and the ticks I generate with that with my mediocre carrier-skills and their ticks that 20% nerf actually will make it more worthwhile for me to go in a Rattle than to bring the Carrier.
So I gotta second the question asked often here yet: Why not remove the damn carriers at all? Or just sell me a damn SKIN for lets say 60EUR that makes my Rattle look like a carrier?
I stuck to my Rattlesnake the entire time because as soon as I saw the 1st Monthly Economic Report after the fighter changes and saw that HUGE spike in null sec bounties my 1st thought was "they are going to nerf that".
No they are nerfing that. I'm glad I kept my last 10 Rattlesnake blueprints |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16070
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:45:26 -
[23] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote: And before the people who jump in say well hurr durr people have already paid ccp with the plex your paying isk for, yes this is true but if noone can achieve the isk/farm thats needed to do this its extra money in ccps pocket when they buy a a sub.
PLEX price will always adjust to what people can or want to pay for them in ISK. My points still stand so this is how its going at minute. Yes plex prices may come down but cost of things are going up so your either stuck with having to grind more of your limited playtime or buy more plex and further lining ccps pockets just to get the isk for that new faction battleship that ccp has so kindly increased the build cost on.
This is not true. If you are doing anomalies you are going to get escalations (less often then now, but you will get them). And you can sell it or run it, and with this change + the escalation nerf the prices of the things you get should be MUCH higher eventually.
The end result is a return to how it used to me, you rat, you make isk, you get an escalation and most times you don't get much but every once in awhile you get that jackpot that pays for a month or 2 of game time.
It's like my role in this thread is to explain to other ratters that "it's going to be ok, just breathe" lol. This is a good change at the end of the day, it will make things easier for all of us who rat for an EVE-living.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16070
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:48:18 -
[24] - Quote
Elliott Spitzer wrote:Elliott Spitzer wrote:The Judge wrote:Not everyone will be happy with this change, but reducing NPC bounty payouts through a direct rebalance of carriers and supers is in the best interest of eve as a whole. Changing bounty payouts would hurt people ratting in every class of ship when carriers and supers are the main problem child. This is the best option I can see.
Keep up the great work. So instead of pissing off 1/4 of nullsec players, let's **** off all of them? Disregard, I misread what you posted, nothing to see here.
I was wondering lol, I was like ("did he get that backwards"? |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16070
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:49:12 -
[25] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Mute Karimar wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I stuck to my Rattlesnake the entire time because as soon as I saw the 1st Monthly Economic Report after the fighter changes and saw that HUGE spike in null sec bounties my 1st thought was "they are going to nerf that". Now they are nerfing that. I'm glad I kept my last 10 Rattlesnake blueprints I gave my rattle to my GFs acc, that is rarely online. Will prolly take it back, cause why put an "above a bill"-ship in space if I can make better ticks in a ship that costs about half of that? And if its only about ISK-generation, why the heck doesnt CCP turn the bounty-screws, make anoms harder, but instead screws the whole shiptree-balance over? The price tag on that rattlesnake will change pretty soon sir.
I was just about to say that lol.
It seems like people are forming opinions from incomplete data. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16070
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:51:50 -
[26] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: The end result is a return to how it used to me, you rat, you make isk, you get an escalation and most times you don't get much but every once in awhile you get that jackpot that pays for a month or 2 of game time.
not if you dont run the escalations it will hurt the bm sale as lower chance to drop while also making demand for the bs higher than supply so fking with income makes it more of a grind to get for fleets
You know you will be able to charge more for your escalations after this right? Because they will be more valuable?
take a moment and breathe, think it through. It's not going to be that bad. Trust me I've been ratting for 10 years now, even before we had respawning anomalies.. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16070
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Posted - 2017.06.09 14:52:57 -
[27] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Winter Lee Wintershadow wrote:
Why is earning isk with one account getting harder and harder?
Getting lots of ISK easily only devalue the ISK itself which shaft anyone not riding the FOTM gravy train. That's why they are nerfing carriers/supers and not all ratting with a flat bounty nerf on rats. Now if only they could remove afk ratting...
They could if they were willing to put an NPC dread in every anom
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16070
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Posted - 2017.06.09 15:15:40 -
[28] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: The end result is a return to how it used to me, you rat, you make isk, you get an escalation and most times you don't get much but every once in awhile you get that jackpot that pays for a month or 2 of game time.
not if you dont run the escalations it will hurt the bm sale as lower chance to drop while also making demand for the bs higher than supply so fking with income makes it more of a grind to get for fleets You know you will be able to charge more for your escalations after this right? Because they will be more valuable? take a moment and breathe, think it through. It's not going to be that bad. Trust me I've been ratting for 10 years now, even before we had respawning anomalies.. you do realise the beloved T3cs that run those escalations are getting nerf batted right so will not be run as often
My beloved T3Cs? I don't fly them. I do escalations in my Machariel unless it's blood raider space then i use a Vargur.
Dude, you need to chill. you are acting like the world is ending lol.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16070
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Posted - 2017.06.09 15:23:02 -
[29] - Quote
The amount of BS in this thread is amazing. People talking about some kind of plex conspiracy.
You all know that people rat and mine even now without Supers and Rorqs right? I use My Machariel and My Rattlesnake (and sometimes a Gila and/or Ishtar) to rat and do fine. I can fly a carrier, but i knew those were going to be nerfed so i didn't get hooked (also, Carriers can NOT use MJDs, FoF missiles or do DED 10/10s like my mach and snake can).
I'm sorry all of you fell for the FotM and didn't know better than to tie yourself down to something that a brain damaged monkey who paid attention to how CCP operates knew would eventually be nerfed. But you should not act like it's some kind of conspiracy, it's just CCP fixing their mistake over putting overpowered stuff into the game. Again. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16070
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Posted - 2017.06.09 15:26:28 -
[30] - Quote
Radkiel wrote:These changes won't hurt me that much as I am retired and have close to unlimited play time. My concern is for the person that works 40+ hours, has a family and other time consuming duties. He/she will now have to spend more time ratting so he/she can buy PvP ships for the weekend.
Resist
Resist making more isk from escalations and having less isk stuffed into the economy with will probably translate into lower plex prices, meaning that ratters 4-6 months form now will have to rat LESS than they do now for game time?
Yea, resist that stuff, we like being Wal-Mart level wage slaves! |
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16073
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Posted - 2017.06.09 15:32:56 -
[31] - Quote
JC Mieyli wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:The amount of BS in this thread is amazing. People talking about some kind of plex conspiracy.
You all know that people rat and mine even now without Supers and Rorqs right? I use My Machariel and My Rattlesnake (and sometimes a Gila and/or Ishtar) to rat and do fine. I can fly a carrier, but i knew those were going to be nerfed so i didn't get hooked (also, Carriers can NOT use MJDs, FoF missiles or do DED 10/10s like my mach and snake can).
I'm sorry all of you fell for the FotM and didn't know better than to tie yourself down to something that a brain damaged monkey who paid attention to how CCP operates knew would eventually be nerfed. But you should not act like it's some kind of conspiracy, it's just CCP fixing their mistake over putting overpowered stuff into the game. Again. well it certainly looks like a conspiracy and this is coming from someone who has no interest in flying a carrier and i dont fly bses either atm though i was planning to i fly a proteus and im trying to get into industry well industry is a big fat lie and proteus... just gonna have to see what happens its not looking too bad though
It only looks like a conspiracy to people to shortsighted to understand that CCP is helping everyone (including the carrier ratters) with the changes they are making.
You are too young in the game to know this but there used to be a time when getting a pirate ship BPCs from a 10/10 or a lucky commander spawn in an anomaly was like hitting the lottery. Now (because or supers and carriers ratting and because CCP turned up escalation chances too high) getting a pirate ship BPC or some deadspace mods from a 10/10 is like finding a penny on the ground aka no big deal.
The only problem with what CCP is doing is it weakens carriers and supers in some pvp situations, but PVE and economy wise CCp is helping everyone by increasing the value of all of the isk in all of our wallets.
It will be ok, the 1st time one of these crying super/carrier pilots sells an escalation for 350-400 mil (like it used to be) instead of 50 to 130 mil like they are now they will forget all of this crying they did lol. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16073
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Posted - 2017.06.09 15:40:02 -
[32] - Quote
Mute Karimar wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: Resist making more isk from escalations and having less isk stuffed into the economy with will probably translate into lower plex prices, meaning that ratters 4-6 months form now will have to rat LESS than they do now for game time?
Yea, resist that stuff, we like being Wal-Mart level wage slaves!
You drunk? Just curious...
Nope, just a professional ratter who has been down this road with CCP a million times. If I'm not worried, you shouldn't be either.
Would you like to make an isk bet paying 4 or 5 months from now, I'm down for that. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16073
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Posted - 2017.06.09 15:45:05 -
[33] - Quote
El'geherg wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:The amount of BS in this thread is amazing. People talking about some kind of plex conspiracy.
You all know that people rat and mine even now without Supers and Rorqs right? I use My Machariel and My Rattlesnake (and sometimes a Gila and/or Ishtar) to rat and do fine. I can fly a carrier, but i knew those were going to be nerfed so i didn't get hooked (also, Carriers can NOT use MJDs, FoF missiles or do DED 10/10s like my mach and snake can).
I'm sorry all of you fell for the FotM and didn't know better than to tie yourself down to something that a brain damaged monkey who paid attention to how CCP operates knew would eventually be nerfed. But you should not act like it's some kind of conspiracy, it's just CCP fixing their mistake over putting overpowered stuff into the game. Again. "The amount of BS in this thread is amazing." You win the award for unintentional irony by saying this following post after post reminding anyone who cares (and nobody does) that you are a self-styled expert in ratting and near prophet when it comes to all things Eve related. There are lots of legitimate concerns being raised in these comments in addition to the threats of rage quitting so instead of congratulating yourself for how prescient you are, perhaps you can shut up and listen.
There is nothing to listen to (other than the concern about PVP capability). People are being dumb about all this, mostly because they don't know enough not to.
It's going to be ok. It will take a while to deplete some stockpiles of dead space gear, blueprints and built pirate ships. it will take some time for the lessening of the isk supply to be felt. But after it does ratters will be in a better place than we are now.
All of which is moot. Almost none of you are actually going to quit, almost all of you are going to benefit from this change in short order, and CCP is not going to pull back from this change no matter how many times ISD has to clean this thread of profanity (lol).
TL;DR this is yet another 'blowing off steam' thread that CCP puts up to let you get it out of your system. Nothing you say is going to change anything. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16073
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Posted - 2017.06.09 15:51:36 -
[34] - Quote
Bron Ander Haltern wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
It only looks like a conspiracy to people too shortsighted to understand that CCP is helping everyone (including the carrier ratters) with the changes they are making.
You crazy?
I was, then I got out of TEST
But more seriously, I just know how these things work. This isn't a nerf so much as a 'switch the place value comes from' as far as rating goes. Ratters in TEST living in Esoteria are going to be double happy because those crappy Centus Assemblies that sell for 50 mil because the loot is crap are goignt o start giving non-crap loot AND be more rare. Sure it means less instant liquid isk for a carrier/super ratter but escalation income (whether your sell or run them yourself) will more than compensate.
And if they are right and the money supply decrease we all win even more as each isk in our wallet attains more value.
It's going to be ok bro. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16073
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Posted - 2017.06.09 15:54:43 -
[35] - Quote
Creecher Virpio wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:El'geherg wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:The amount of BS in this thread is amazing. People talking about some kind of plex conspiracy.
You all know that people rat and mine even now without Supers and Rorqs right? I use My Machariel and My Rattlesnake (and sometimes a Gila and/or Ishtar) to rat and do fine. I can fly a carrier, but i knew those were going to be nerfed so i didn't get hooked (also, Carriers can NOT use MJDs, FoF missiles or do DED 10/10s like my mach and snake can).
I'm sorry all of you fell for the FotM and didn't know better than to tie yourself down to something that a brain damaged monkey who paid attention to how CCP operates knew would eventually be nerfed. But you should not act like it's some kind of conspiracy, it's just CCP fixing their mistake over putting overpowered stuff into the game. Again. "The amount of BS in this thread is amazing." You win the award for unintentional irony by saying this following post after post reminding anyone who cares (and nobody does) that you are a self-styled expert in ratting and near prophet when it comes to all things Eve related. There are lots of legitimate concerns being raised in these comments in addition to the threats of rage quitting so instead of congratulating yourself for how prescient you are, perhaps you can shut up and listen. There is nothing to listen to (other than the concern about PVP capability). People are being dumb about all this, mostly because they don't know enough not to. It's going to be ok. It will take a while to deplete some stockpiles of dead space gear, blueprints and built pirate ships. it will take some time for the lessening of the isk supply to be felt. But after it does ratters will be in a better place than we are now. All of which is moot. Almost none of you are actually going to quit, almost all of you are going to benefit from this change in short order, and CCP is not going to pull back from this change no matter how many times ISD has to clean this thread of profanity (lol). TL;DR this is yet another 'blowing off steam' thread that CCP puts up to let you get it out of your system. Nothing you say is going to change anything. you being in shime thus likely never having flown a carrier or eve actually pvping says everything anyone needs to know about your opinion on the matter
You should be better than that. i'm going to be happy to evemail you this comment in 6 months.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16074
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Posted - 2017.06.09 16:34:04 -
[36] - Quote
xOmGx wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:[img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] -á [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img]Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why:We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What:- Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
- Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
- Support Fighters: No Change
- Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
- NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.
We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. CCP you are ******* faggots pls die
This is helpful lol |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16075
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Posted - 2017.06.09 16:47:56 -
[37] - Quote
ivona fly wrote:Just add CAPITAL MISSILE DEFENSE SENTRY and CAPITAL NEUTRALISER SENTRY to the missions
borrow some code from the citadels
Stats _________________________ Hitpoints : really Stronk Damage : 100k per volley Range : Forever _________________________
only targets captial ships or has 99% reduction in effects to non capital ships
Add / subtract the rate of fire for balance
Now carriers are not gimped for PvP!!!
This is about the only reasonable counter proposal I've seen. Too bad it will be drowned out by all the "U SUK CCP" being posted ...
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16075
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Posted - 2017.06.09 16:55:14 -
[38] - Quote
I'll say again, all the accusations of "omg CCP just wants me to buy plex" are stupid.
If CCP wanted you to buy plex theiy'd BUFF fighters so you can generate isk easier to buy plex. Plex is money in the bank for CCP |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16076
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Posted - 2017.06.09 17:03:43 -
[39] - Quote
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:Sapphire Voice wrote:Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:Personally I think all the changes of late are all good. Its way too easy for people en mass to farm the game.
There shouldnt be any sources of AFK, Passive Income.
Well done ccp. You got payed by CCP or what?)))) Not really I just enjoy the salt and tears when they nerf stuff. The first round of rorqual nerfs everyone was up in arms threatening to sell all their rorquals, and unsub accounts. Its a big joke. Everyone will calm down in a week go back to whatever they were doing and adjust.
Exactly, which is why I call these "oppurtunity to blow off some steam" threads. Once everybody takes their carrier/super to rat and find out it's actually not that much of a change (or someone pops up a youtube video showing some clever way around it all) they will act like they never lost their minds of a forum.
Like you say, it happens EVERY time there is a significant change that affects income, pvp ability or somehow threats something that have 'invested' in. It's the stock human response to the idea of loss, lol some of these mofos are going through stages of grief
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16076
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Posted - 2017.06.09 17:10:23 -
[40] - Quote
Dug wrote:So the issue is with null sec, so why are you nurfing a ship class?
You already have a solution, just take the code that governs pi and apply it to null sec bounties. Boom you now have power blocks moving for the higher ticks, which is both risky and content creating.
But you won't because it's coming clear CCP treats play made ideas the same as toilet paper. The changes this year are the reason I play other games more and more.
No one moves for 'higher ticks'. It's been tried before.Quote:Expected consequences
Some alliances will immediately start wanting to look for better space In the longer run, there'll be more conflicts going on, with more localized goals Newer alliances will have an easier time getting a foothold in nullsec Coalitions will be marginally less stable Alliances will have to choose more carefully what space they develop, where their staging systems are, and so on (low truesec systems generally tend to be in strategically inconvenient places)
That didn't happen. Because no one moves for ticks.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16076
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Posted - 2017.06.09 17:12:35 -
[41] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Manicsar wrote:Since I just wasted all the time training carrier skill can I get a refund for those skills? Skills still have a use in game so no refund is the usual CCP response. Your carrier skill would get refunded only if carriers were deleted from the game.
That's another one of those funny responses. It's like saying "I have made billions and billions of isk with these skills and they are useful for other things. but i expect a refund because I'm pissed at a change you made"! |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16076
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Posted - 2017.06.09 17:31:39 -
[42] - Quote
Snape Dieboldmotor wrote:I though Fozzie was in charge of delivering bad news. Larrikin, you need to develop some flame resistance plating for your internal fittings. Good luck with this thread.
Yea, I hope Larrikin trained Overheat to 5
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16076
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Posted - 2017.06.09 17:45:36 -
[43] - Quote
Gianni Zuiverloon wrote:FIX THE ANOMALIES NOT THE CAPITAL SHIPS. NEW ANOMALIES FOR CARRIERS ONLY AND RESTRICTED ACCESS TO THE CURRENT ANOMS FOR CARRIERS.
AFTER YEARS OF TIME WASTED SKILLING A SHIP YOU NERF IT LIKE THAT?!? ARE YOU SERIOUS?? GIVE ME BACK ALL THE SKILL POINTS YOU THIEFS.
-4 ACCOUNTS SUB RIGHT NOW. UNTIL YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND COMPLETELY.
Bye bye
Ah **** boys, he's serious, look at all them capital letters! |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16076
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Posted - 2017.06.09 17:46:34 -
[44] - Quote
Just when I thought it couldn't get worse...a Reddit post appears! ABANDON SHIP!!
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16080
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Posted - 2017.06.09 19:04:01 -
[45] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Panther X wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Vaktul wrote:This makes no sense. So you're sweeping the biggest ISK making game-breaking exploit and guilty parties under the rug while at the same time punishing people that are actually out their grinding for their ISK instead? You people are the equivalent of corrupt politicians with how you represent us and you're equally as out-of-touch. Yup Yup yup Nope nope nope. This is patently ridiculous. First of all, the two situations are not remotely comparable, nor are they at all related. Ghost training absolutely should be punished in some way (I'd start with an outright deletion of all earned ISK and take it from there), but that has nothing to do with this. You're not being punished. It's simply necessary, for the health of the game, to reduce the inflow of ISK from carrier ratting. vOv Then just make havens and sanctums gated deadspace. Carriers can't go in. Problem solved. If that's what the problem is? Carriers are still pvp machines, fighters still do capital level damage. There are better ways of fixing issues than the nerfhammer. I don't disagree with that, and said as much upthread. The nerf to carrier ratting seems appropriate, the nerf to carrier PvP power seems heavy-handed and unwarranted (at least at this magnitude).
I'm a bit concerned about the pvp thing too. But gates would make anomalies too safe, and the last thing any part of EVE PVE (especially null sec liquid isk spewing anoms) needs is more safety.
They put gates on Havens and you'll see me doing nothing but Havens with Multiboxing my mach and 2 FoF/Sentry drones rattlesnakes and running away as soon as anything appears on d-scan. Additionally I could probably kill a Tackling T3 in a gated haven before his friends could arrive with as much DPS as I have, and gated means dead space so no cynos in a gated haven/sanctum (as I recall, if they don't make it deadspace then people can just warp in from normal space defeating the purpose of the gate, probably a legacy code thing).
I know people think gated anoms are a good idea but that's trying to fix a symptom when you know you have a cure for the disease but don't want to use it. The fighters caused the problem, so the fighters are getting fixed. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16084
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Posted - 2017.06.09 22:01:41 -
[46] - Quote
Bron Ander Haltern wrote:CCP Quant wrote " When you can reliably sit and make 500-780M pure isk/hr** pr. account** " He definitely does not know what he is writting about. Who told them this? Is this a CSM idea about ratting in a carrier/super? That just scares and embarrasses me that they got no idea about the game they make.
No one told him, he's the Data guy at CCP, he has the info at his finger tips. Remember, all regions aren't the same rat wise, and some rats (like for instance rogue drones) have higher base bounties.
Right now CCP quant is getting downvoted into oblivion after he has explained what happening to the EVE economy. It shows that people care more about their imaginary space wallets than they do the health of the EVE economy.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16110
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Posted - 2017.06.10 16:51:53 -
[47] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:
Everyone is so focused on what is "good for them" they are ignoring the wider perspective which is what the devs are paid to do.
Everyone is so focused on what they STUPIDLY think is "good for them" and don't understand that (with the exception of pvp use) these changes will eventually benefit them in the form of high value of the isk in their wallets , improved prices of the loot and escalations they sell and perhaps lower plex prices in the long run.
The scary thing to me is that these people who are complaining because they don't get it also have the right to vote in whatever country they come from. If they can't see up from down and right from wrong in a video game well.....
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16113
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Posted - 2017.06.10 17:03:33 -
[48] - Quote
Mary Timeshift Jane wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:
Everyone is so focused on what is "good for them" they are ignoring the wider perspective which is what the devs are paid to do.
Everyone is so focused on what they STUPIDLY think is "good for them" and don't understand that (with the exception of pvp use) these changes will eventually benefit them in the form of high value of the isk in their wallets , improved prices of the loot and escalations they sell and perhaps lower plex prices in the long run. The scary thing to me is that these people who are complaining because they don't get it also have the right to vote in whatever country they come from. If they can't see up from down and right from wrong in a video game well..... Your argument defeats itself. Since I'm already well off, because i put in effort and time and made myself richer than most others, why should I care about what's good for an average guy who doesn't care to put the same effort and time in the first place. Everyone could be rich but #effort & #time are two alien aspects of life to mediocre population. Apropos, everything should be free for everyone to have ultimate maximum fun, no work - just fun. It's you capitalists and jews blabbering about value of this and that who don't get it and are holding the world back from evolving into its greater version altogether.
This isn't about effort. CCP made a disasterous change when they changed fighters, and players used this to hyperinflate the money supply in EVE. CCP are now fixing this problem, and the (average of 27 years old) man children who got used to printing isk are pissed off that CCP is taking away the mistake they are exploiting.
It's just a video game, but the response people are having shows IMO who people are crappy IRL and why another asteroid slamming into the rock we live on might not be a terribly bad idea. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16119
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Posted - 2017.06.11 14:55:07 -
[49] - Quote
Ezio Sotken wrote:Drago Misharie wrote:Why don't they make Null Sec Anoms Escalate when a carrier warps in to slow them down instead of nerfing the fighters?
For every carrier that warps in you get NPC Carrier and Logi, warp in 3 carriers and you get triple the dps being applied.
That's a better way to balance.
Make it more time consuming and challenging to pilots. I would be down for that, sleeper site rules for escelation.
And like in wh space that would be abused ruthlessly for even higher pay outs...
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Jenn aSide
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16123
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Posted - 2017.06.11 16:45:55 -
[50] - Quote
Farrow Tsasa wrote:Apologies if this has already been raised....
But why not put an acceleration gate on the entrance to the anoms - its in line with Escalations/Scanned sites. Set the gate to reject capitals - if capital ratting is such an issue.
I don't feel that supers are too OP in PVP in their current state, even if they were slightly OP it is a 25b investment and you expect some return!
Give us a reason to fight (instead of grinding all the time) if you really want to make changes!
It's been brought up, its a bad idea because it makes subcapital ratters WAY too safe. You are supposed to be safe in a null sec system that has infinitely respawning anomalies. Plus the fact that having to take a gate takes time which lowers the income of the sub caps still able to do anomalies.
CCP is making the right choice for once. I used to run Forsaken Hubs from when they were added to the game until CCP changed them. CCP changed them because Tracking Titans and Super Carriers could exploit them to the toon of 300-500 mil per hour. So CCP added frigates to the one Anomalies that didn't spawn frigates, just to curb the tracking titans.
In other words they screwed over EVERYONE because Titan pilots figured out a way to exploit an anomaly. CCP replicated the tracing titan problem with their new "fighter squadrons" (a problem then exacerbated by skill injectors and the ease of training up a character to carrier/supercarrier rat). THIS time they are actually fixing the broken thing causing the problem instead screwing those of us who use sub caps for ratting but changing the anomalies.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16139
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Posted - 2017.06.12 13:22:00 -
[51] - Quote
cursedlion wrote:Ah how funny all these things sound to us the wormholers. how insignificant.
It's not just wormholers. I'm a null sec guy through and through, and ratting is my main thing and has been for the 9 + years I've been playing in null. And I think it's pretty insignificant too, of course I never let myself get sucked into carrier ratting because anyone with eyes who has watched CCP over the years knew that it would get nerfed hard eventually. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16139
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Posted - 2017.06.12 13:26:19 -
[52] - Quote
Side1Bu2Rnz9 wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:I know most people here are averse to looking at the data...but you can find it here. The money supply grew rapidly last month. We saw some pretty wild swings recently with Alpha clones lining up with a surge in the money supply. A big drop when citadels were released (everyone and their Uncle Bob buying up blueprints). There is no similar explanation with the recent rise in the money supply. A cold war caused by a TERRIBLE sov mechanics has a tendency to also cause an increase in the amount of money generation. Maybe you should try to find the problem and not do what CCP is doing by putting bandaids on a symptom... You're also naive if you don't think people will just move back to "printing ISK" in semi-AFK drone boats instead of carriers. Carriers were never the most efficient ISK per effort in the game, but it allowed people to play on one account and make the same amount of ISK per hour as running 3-4 accounts using VNIs. Carriers were a click fest, but they were perfect for the person who maybe can't play 20 hours a day or run multiple accounts. The only thing CCP will do with this patch is nerf carrier's PVP ability and forced the customer base to adapt to multi-boxing 3-4 accounts using semi-afk drone boats instead...
It's ok if people replace ONE character carrier or super ratting with 4-5 ishtars. Those things die more often and will be a materiel sink, and the transaction fees from buy 4-5 characters worth of plex per month are increased isk sinks.
That's kinda the whole point lol.
And the "cold war" has nothing to do with it. EVE has gone through periods of MUCH less activity than what we have right now and the economy never did what this one is doing. The simple truth is that CCP put Fighter squadrons into the game without understanding how good they would be for killing NPCs. Now they are fixing that mistake at least partially and people are acting like CCP just banged their moms while streaming it on Twitch.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16147
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Posted - 2017.06.12 17:35:51 -
[53] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Original Post updated
You just explained that almost half the bounties in null sec are generated by only 6% of all ratting characters then you cut down on the balance pass you were about to make?
I think that's just prolonging the inevitable. You're going to have to fix this and it would have been better to do most of it up front IMO. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16147
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Posted - 2017.06.12 17:40:29 -
[54] - Quote
PenguinBacon wrote:I too can massage data to justify a false conclusion! Per Quant's 2015 presentation 1.5% of the games population logged in and ran incursions This group accounted for at the time 8.36T worth of incomeAssuming linear growth of the player base based on the increase in incursion income May 2017th Income is 9.92T. This was a growth of 18.68% of income. The estimated population of incursion runners is 1.66%. So Rounding up to 1.7% to be consistent with the chart made by Quant. We have 1.7% of the games population accounting for 9.92T income. To compare this with the numbers posted by Larrikin in the first post 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Incursion runners are about 21% more of a player base than SuperCarriers but result in 331% more income per character.
You do know Larrikin meanted "characters earning bounties", where as when Quant was talking about incursions he was talking about their percentage of the general population.
You'd need to know how many people were earning bounties (so you'd know what percentage of characters were involved in bounty generating activity) yo compare the two.
No one knows how unbalanced high sec incursions are more than me, but your attempt and analyses is off. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16147
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Posted - 2017.06.12 17:48:59 -
[55] - Quote
Wrong place, sry. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16147
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Posted - 2017.06.12 18:05:03 -
[56] - Quote
Sassura wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Sassura wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:Original Post updated You just explained that almost half the bounties in null sec are generated by only 6% of all ratting characters then you cut down on the balance pass you were about to make? I think that's just prolonging the inevitable. You're going to have to fix this and it would have been better to do most of it up front IMO. It does need to be fixed. There are better ways though, ones which really address the problems. The problem is fighter squadrons. This problem did not exist the day before CCP patched in Fighter Squadrons. that shouldn't be changing anomalies when they know what the problem is. CCP did that before (with tracking titans and forsaken hubs, they added frigs to forsaken hubs, slowing down everyone, not just the titan ratters) and that shouldn't ever do that again. I wish that it were that simple, but I don't believe it is. Fighters need work, a 3 day old character shouldn't be able to render a carrier useless. I'm not arguing there. A simple damage reduction simply doesn't fix the issues at hand. Do you think so many people would be out there ratting in carrier and supers, making those bounty numbers so high if it wasn't for things like skill injectors, lack of force projection creating much safer space than intended and many other things? Lets not forget about how cheap and easy they are to get hold of now. The bigger picture makes me think that nerfing fighter damage wouldn't be the fix that the game needs.
I'm sure those ancillary issue matter, there were such issues with tracking titans too (no skill injectors of course, that would have been madness).
But EVE is an interconnected thing. CCP seems to understand that the best move is the direct one instead of trying to fix 40 things at once. Nom, fighters should not be so easy to jam, but that another issue for another day, the issue here is the money supply and a dps nerf will affect that no matter whatever else happens.
Trying to fix all those things might screw up other things (no offence to CCP, but that don't have a good track record there). Nerfing dps affects the tiny sliver of EVE online players that fly capitals, it's better to negatively affect a few than it is to do that to potentially many many more people.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16148
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Posted - 2017.06.12 18:27:03 -
[57] - Quote
C0ATL wrote:PenguinBacon wrote:I too can massage data to justify a false conclusion! Per Quant's 2015 presentation 1.5% of the games population logged in and ran incursions This group accounted for at the time 8.36T worth of incomeAssuming linear growth of the player base based on the increase in incursion income May 2017th Income is 9.92T. This was a growth of 18.68% of income. The estimated population of incursion runners is 1.66%. So Rounding up to 1.7% to be consistent with the chart made by Quant. We have 1.7% of the games population accounting for 9.92T income. To compare this with the numbers posted by Larrikin in the first post 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Incursion runners are about 21% more of a player base than SuperCarriers but result in 331% more income per character. THAT ^ ^ ^ It begs the question...how true are those numbers? Why didnt we get a nice graph like the ones in the report? Why wasnt a bounty income per ship type graph included in the monthly report (didnt even need to include all 200 ships...just cruiser/battleships/capitals/supercapitals)? And most important of all...why weren't these numbers given in the original post?
Because it's CCP and they never anticipate the about of nerd rage that's about to come at them...
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16149
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Posted - 2017.06.12 19:33:58 -
[58] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:
We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date.[/list]
Noticed this part. I'll be paying special attention to this, because this is the area where everyone can get messed up. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16149
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Posted - 2017.06.12 22:46:41 -
[59] - Quote
Marcel Garsk wrote:baltec1 wrote:This is simply rage at money making machines getting a nerf, we have seen this **** before. Did CCP **** up? Yes. I have seen this coming from day one of the carrier changes which is why I didn't bother to train any alts into it, the only surprise is that it took this long. Yes! Carrier training was not a smart idea. Much wiser idea is to undock fifty money making mini-machines called VNI...
Or my one Machariel assited by an FoF/Gecko Rattlesnake.
Why are people pretending that it's either "Super cap r VNI"? Just about any ship can rat.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16150
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Posted - 2017.06.12 22:56:26 -
[60] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Mossyblog Barnes wrote:*sigh*
Can you please hire a someone who understands statistical analysis.
Taking a "snapshot" from 5 days in "June" is like looking at your bank account during St Paddys day and declaring you have a years worth of drinking behaviour.
Qualitative Analysis. Please please get a book on this and come back to us with some concrete evidence that doesn't orbit Delve and Goons. The daily data is there to download and it is not good. Average amount of ISK entering the economy on a monthly basis up to November 2016 7 trillion. In May 2017, 53 trillion or about a 757% increase. Further, the first 5 days of June are showing another month with a high growth rate for ISK. Further, in looking at the daily data, after about mid April the number of days with negative ISK growth virtually disappeared, whereas before they were more frequent and of larger magnitude.
Poor Teckos with his "Facts" and "reason" lol.
My buddy Malcanis once told me something (a saying by a dead politician) that applies here: "It is hard to get someone to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it". |
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16153
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Posted - 2017.06.13 12:18:10 -
[61] - Quote
Mary Timeshift Jane wrote:Gimme Sake wrote:Looking at the arguments in this thread "Mah super cost me 27 bil y u nurf it?!?!" "I nvested x amount of moneyz now the sand box is mine!" "Nerf them not me!" "Blame the game not the player!" "I've made 50 alts now I deserve eternal bliss!" etc.
In case anyone wonders in the future why CCP (or any other company) goes pay 2 win... as long as the players pick isk making over game balance it can't ever go towards gameplay. Simply because that is what the player base asks for.
What gameplay is there to pick? Those frigate, occasionally cruiser, roams most people are doing most of the time? So much fun.. are they, not.
Exactly what is stopping you from forming something bigger and more fun and going to kill someone?
How in hell do people complain about having nothing to do in a game where you can do anything you want? |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16154
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Posted - 2017.06.13 14:59:13 -
[62] - Quote
Heleana Commodus Luyseyal wrote:CCP should keep on mind that if ppl skilled up for something and invested their real money into it, when they nerf bat that same thing to uselessness, they should refund skill points that are thrown by players. Or at least that is what other companies are doing, like for example blizzards hearthstone.
CCP isn't and should not be responsible for people's bad gameplay choices. Like if someone finds a way to use a ship to make 3 billion isk per tick and I skill inject into that ship despite having enough sense to know that CCP is going to nerf that as soon as they are aware of it, CCP would owe me nothing when they fixed the thing i was stupid enough to spend money on.
I still remain amazed at the fact the people can play EVE for years watching CCP ruthlessly nerf stuff that is too good and they STILL can't grasp the idea that going for the next big flavor of the month is a stupid idea.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16158
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Posted - 2017.06.13 18:54:17 -
[63] - Quote
Valdr Auduin wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Heleana Commodus Luyseyal wrote:CCP should keep on mind that if ppl skilled up for something and invested their real money into it, when they nerf bat that same thing to uselessness, they should refund skill points that are thrown by players. Or at least that is what other companies are doing, like for example blizzards hearthstone. CCP isn't and should not be responsible for people's bad gameplay choices. Like if someone finds a way to use a ship to make 3 billion isk per tick and I skill inject into that ship despite having enough sense to know that CCP is going to nerf that as soon as they are aware of it, CCP would owe me nothing when they fixed the thing i was stupid enough to spend money on. I still remain amazed at the fact the people can play EVE for years watching CCP ruthlessly nerf stuff that is too good and they STILL can't grasp the idea that going for the next big flavor of the month is a stupid idea. Isn't this supposed to be a game with virtually no "bad gameplay choices"?
Who in the five hells ever said that? And even if someone did, how could it possibly be misconstrued into the idea that CCP must be responsible for people bad gameplay actions?
If you skill inject into a flavor of the month thing because everyone is doing it when you KNOW that CCP is well known and notorious for nerfing things like that, that's no one's fault but your own. This is why I own neither Rorqual nor Super Carrier (no offence intended to intelligent Rorq and SuperCap pilots, ALL Offense intended to the stupid ones).
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