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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
14901
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Posted - 2017.05.17 16:44:30 -
[1] - Quote
Good afternoon everyone.
In our recent dev blog we mentioned faction starbase industry structures in the following paragraph:
Quote:There are two faction Starbase industry structures that will be receiving special attention during this time: the Thukker Component Assembly Array and the Hyasyoda Research Laboratory. These structures will eventually be replaced by new Upwell items with a transition process beginning over the summer. More details about these replacement items will be announced as we get closer to their deployment date.
Well today is more details day!
This thread will cover discussion on the new faction service module that will replace the Hyasyoda Research Laboratory structures.
For anyone not familiar with them, the Hyasyoda Research Laboratories are special starbase lab structures that provide extra speed bonuses for ME and TE blueprint research. They are obtained from one possible ending of the Caldari epic arc mission chain.
In the upcoming June release we will be adding a new version of the Research Lab service module to replace this structure. This service module will provide exactly the same services as a normal Standup Research Lab I, but uses 16.7% less PWG and 8.3% less fuel.
Single run BPCs for these new service modules will be provided from the same mission that provided the old Hyasyoda lab structure. Build requirements for this new service module will be one T1 Lab service module plus 10 Science Graduates.
For owners of the existing Hyasyoda Research Laboratories that wish to switch to the new service module we will also adjust the reprocessing output of the old structures to provide more materials back and provide a special "Hyasyoda Research Lab Technical Data Chip" that can be accessed to gain BPCs for the new service module.
The existing Hyasyoda Research Laboratories will continue to operate normally in June. Under the current plan the research speed bonuses of the existing Hyasyoda Research Laboratories will be phased out in August so we advise existing users to make plans to switch over the next few months.
These new service modules will be available on SISI soon when we deploy the 119.6 release for testing and we encourage interested players to experiment with them there.
This thread will be the place to ask questions and provide feedback on these new rigs. Thanks!
Game Designer | Team Five-0
Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
14901
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Posted - 2017.05.17 16:44:36 -
[2] - Quote
Reserved
Game Designer | Team Five-0
Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
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Ghost Hunter
True Slave Foundations Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
131
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Posted - 2017.05.17 17:14:40 -
[3] - Quote
A typo for the speed bonuses not being retained, or is the only benefit of this service module truly less PG and fuel consumption?
True Slave Foundations Overseer
-ò
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Tribal Trogdor
Better Off Red Unspoken Alliance.
40
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Posted - 2017.05.17 17:21:24 -
[4] - Quote
Ghost Hunter wrote:A typo for the speed bonuses not being retained, or is the only benefit of this service module truly less PG and fuel consumption?
Just fuel and pg |
Kuhn Arashi
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
16
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Posted - 2017.05.17 17:24:54 -
[5] - Quote
Why did you keep the bonus for ME on the thukker but not the speed bonus of this? Those two features are the reasons they are used. |
Tavion Aksmis
OZONED The-Culture
10
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Posted - 2017.05.17 18:03:27 -
[6] - Quote
Kuhn Arashi wrote:Why did you keep the bonus for ME on the thukker but not the speed bonus of this? Those two features are the reasons they are used.
I think I can answer that.
Thukker bonuses are there to make lowsec a competetive place to build capitals in to rival the nullsec bonuses to ore reprocessing and material efficiency rigs.
Hyasyoda Research Lab is nothing but a better research lab, and not in the game for any specific balance reason, my guess is they want to tone down how good this module is. But in the end it does feel like it's very underwhelming. The PG bonus is barely worth anything. -8% fuel consumption is something in the ballpark of 10 million saved in fuel a month, not insignificant but also not really worth the faction/story-line tag, perhaps double it to -16%? |
Kuhn Arashi
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
16
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Posted - 2017.05.17 18:47:33 -
[7] - Quote
Tavion Aksmis wrote:Kuhn Arashi wrote:Why did you keep the bonus for ME on the thukker but not the speed bonus of this? Those two features are the reasons they are used. I think I can answer that. Thukker bonuses are there to make lowsec a competetive place to build capitals in to rival the nullsec bonuses to ore reprocessing and material efficiency rigs. Hyasyoda Research Lab is nothing but a better research lab, and not in the game for any specific balance reason, my guess is they want to tone down how good this module is. But in the end it does feel like it's very underwhelming. The PG bonus is barely worth anything. -8.3% fuel consumption is something in the ballpark of 10 million saved in fuel a month, not insignificant but also not really worth the faction/story-line tag, perhaps double it to -16.6%?
Yeah, I think the bonus is insignificant at the moment. The increase in effeciency for researching in ECs compared to even the hyasyoda is pretty impressive, so much so that they increased base times for capital stuff. So bringing that bonus over would undo what they've already done.
However, the bonus it offers as proposed just doesn't seem worth it to bother. |
ZeRonin
Deutsche Vulkan Synergy of Steel
1
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Posted - 2017.05.17 19:00:37 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:The existing Hyasyoda Research Laboratories will continue to operate normally in June. Under the current plan the research speed bonuses of the existing Hyasyoda Research Laboratories will be phased out in August so we advise existing users to make plans to switch over the next few months.!
This means the existing modules won't get converted? And all the modules i bought are nearly worthless? |
Tribal Trogdor
Better Off Red Unspoken Alliance.
40
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Posted - 2017.05.17 19:19:09 -
[9] - Quote
ZeRonin wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:The existing Hyasyoda Research Laboratories will continue to operate normally in June. Under the current plan the research speed bonuses of the existing Hyasyoda Research Laboratories will be phased out in August so we advise existing users to make plans to switch over the next few months.! This means the existing modules won't get converted? And all the modules i bought are nearly worthless?
No, it means read the paragraph directly above what you quoted |
Creecher Virpio
Alcoholocaust. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12
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Posted - 2017.05.17 21:34:02 -
[10] - Quote
so all it does is use less fuel and PG now?
no bonus to ME or TE research speed?
thats.. underwhelming. |
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Circumstantial Evidence
417
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Posted - 2017.05.17 22:04:11 -
[11] - Quote
Nice mechanic for the conversion! But, will it be left this way forever? When Starbases (control towers) are finally reimbursed in some manner, should all the old labs (and thukker arrays) be removed completely and turned into "data chips" ?
I still wonder about the final disposition of Sov Blockade Units, I once heard they might be removed completely, and turned into Territory Claim Units. |
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research Nornir Empire
1049
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Posted - 2017.05.17 22:10:53 -
[12] - Quote
Hyasyoda Labs currently aren't built and are not reprocessable, what do you mean by more materials?
Free 3rd party services
Buddy link w/ bonus 250k SP, you keep the whole PLEX upon subscribing
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HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1843
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Posted - 2017.05.18 06:30:45 -
[13] - Quote
Is there a specific reason, why it will become a module and not a rig like the "Thukker Capital Component Array rig"?
If it has to be rigged, it is "lost" if the station is unanchored, destroyed or abandoned...
Keeps the demand in all space (Highsec to WH) on a higher level and makes it something special. The bonus can be more or less the same.
x % reduction in Engineering Service Module fuel consumption x % reduction in manufacturing and science job required ISK cost |
Endecroix
The Quiet Joys of Brotherhood
56
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Posted - 2017.05.19 06:09:02 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Fozzie, do you expect the ISK reward for selling one of the lab BPCs to give be in synch with the other Epic Arc rewards? If yes all good from my point of view if not then can you look at changing the line to add a bonus ISK for the last mission or something like that. |
klana depp
Tr0pa de elite. Ghost Legion.
5
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Posted - 2017.05.19 14:35:54 -
[15] - Quote
one question:
on an astrahus, if you rip out (unfit) the standup cloning center service module, you DESTROY all installed clones.
does the same happen with industrial (research) jobs when i rip out the (current) research service module?
if yes; can i install the new hyasyoda in parallel to the existing one, so as to not lose jobs?
whats the proper procedure here? my azbel has hundreds of jobs running...
also, please buff the module a bit more. doubling the fuel reduction bonus seems like a really good idea. |
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1844
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Posted - 2017.05.20 08:22:26 -
[16] - Quote
klana depp wrote: whats the proper procedure here? my azbel has hundreds of jobs running...
You have got an Azbel running hundreds of jobs?
Check it out on Sisi :)
The module will be avaialable soon! |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3930
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Posted - 2017.05.20 08:37:23 -
[17] - Quote
not sure if just PG and fuel is enough at least not at the levels listed. i get that they may be to strong if they stack with the EC but there has to be a better way
BLOPS Hauler
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HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1844
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Posted - 2017.05.20 17:15:31 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Single run BPCs for these new service modules will be provided from the same mission that provided the old Hyasyoda lab structure.
... "Hyasyoda Research Lab Technical Data Chip" that can be accessed to gain BPCs for the new service module.
A BPC for the lab will drop. Existing labs can be reprocessed and will "generate" a data chip? why is it that complicated?
I do not get any BPC or data chip for any reprocessed faction item in EVE.
Keep it simple....
Hyasyoda Research Lab BPCs will be converted to new BPCs.
Reimburst all packed / unpacked / assembled / used / in Jita laying "Hyasyoda Research Labs" by a BPC of the new module and adjust the recycling material to the same of the T1 version of the modul.
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
3018
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Posted - 2017.05.20 21:55:27 -
[19] - Quote
Gotta admit, this is slightly underwhelming. Personally I'd like to see one of the following:
- Simply increase the fuel reduction. As is it's saving less than a block an hour on an EC. At least make it a full block? Maybe even go crazy with two?
- Allow invention and research from the Hyasoda. Increase fuel use to something like 75% of the combined modules (or more; that may be too generous). At least it would be interesting and open a slot for another service module (not that I know what you'd do with it under most circumstances but it would at least make the Hyasoda unique).
- Keep a small fuel reduction and/or scrap it entirely but introduce a small (maybe 3-5%?) time reduction. Less than a rig but enough to make the Hyasoda unique. If you wanted to go all out, combine this with (2) above.
As is, I'm going to have trouble justifying installing a Hyasoda on an existing EC simply from the hassle of finding a time when there are no jobs running. On a busy public structure that becomes very nearly impossible. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
14906
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Posted - 2017.05.23 20:42:36 -
[20] - Quote
Thanks for the comments and feedback so far everyone.
The reasoning for switching the bonuses over to a PWG and fuel reduction is that a speed increase on a service module like this that can be used in any area of space and with any blueprint type would simply be too powerful. We already provide extremely strong research bonuses through ECs and rigs and adding a bonus from the service module (which would quickly become something people would feel they need in order to compete) would be too much.
After reading through the feedback so far we do agree that the bonuses could use a bit more strength, so we are now planning on doubling the Hyasyoda lab fuel reduction bonus to -16.7%.
Elizabeth Norn wrote:Hyasyoda Labs currently aren't built and are not reprocessable, what do you mean by more materials? The phrasing here was a copy paste error from the other thread, good catch. We are adding reprocessing outputs to the existing Hyasyoda Labs so that in addition to the data chips they will provide most of the base materials of a standard Research Lab. This is intended as another light incentive for players to start phasing down their use of these structures and moving their operations over to Upwell structure.
HandelsPharmi wrote:Is there a specific reason, why it will become a module and not a rig like the "Thukker Capital Component Array rig"? The more focused nature of the Thukker Component Array bonuses (only working on capital parts) lended itself well to being converted to rigs in the new system. The more general use of the Hyasyoda Lab would have been a problem with trying to turn it into rigs.
klana depp wrote:one question:
on an astrahus, if you rip out (unfit) the standup cloning center service module, you DESTROY all installed clones.
does the same happen with industrial (research) jobs when i rip out the (current) research service module?
if yes; can i install the new hyasyoda in parallel to the existing one, so as to not lose jobs?
whats the proper procedure here? my azbel has hundreds of jobs running... The current plan is for this system to support hot-swapping. If you install the second service module (so that you temporarily have both the old Standup Research Lab I and the new Standup Hyasyoda Research Lab running at the same time) and then remove the old service module, the jobs will continue as normal. This hot-swap functionality should be working now but since there are so many potential use cases we'd appreciate testing of this on SISI on your own structures once we seed the new service module (should be in the coming days).
Game Designer | Team Five-0
Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
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Endecroix
The Quiet Joys of Brotherhood Hedonistic Imperative
57
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Posted - 2017.05.25 08:01:27 -
[21] - Quote
Thanks for listening to peoples' concerns and for the clarification. I know I am looking at this from a standings grinding point of view so wanting parity between Epic Arc lines etc but it's good to see my worries being addressed whilst you are solving other peoples' worries too. |
Centurax
Eve Engineering Authority Eve Engineering
78
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Posted - 2017.05.30 17:13:03 -
[22] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Elizabeth Norn wrote:Hyasyoda Labs currently aren't built and are not reprocessable, what do you mean by more materials? The phrasing here was a copy paste error from the other thread, good catch. We are adding reprocessing outputs to the existing Hyasyoda Labs so that in addition to the data chips they will provide most of the base materials of a standard Research Lab. This is intended as another light incentive for players to start phasing down their use of these structures and moving their operations over to Upwell structure.
How come not a like for like swap for Hyasyoda Labs seems complicated if you have a Starbase version of the Lab, you then have to take it and get it reprocessed, you get a data chip of some kind to then you have to somehow make it again as a Standup Version? Or am I missing something here?
If the functionality of labs is removed ahead of this change then, I would imagine most will be boxed up before the time to switch, would it not be easier for everyone to just swap them out, and if they are still in space just put them in the nearest station?
Otherwise the change seems good, just a little confused on this part, as it seems overly complicated.
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Careby
325
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Posted - 2017.06.11 12:53:24 -
[23] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:The current plan is for this system to support hot-swapping. If you install the second service module (so that you temporarily have both the old Standup Research Lab I and the new Standup Hyasyoda Research Lab running at the same time) and then remove the old service module, the jobs will continue as normal. This hot-swap functionality should be working now but since there are so many potential use cases we'd appreciate testing of this on SISI on your own structures once we seed the new service module (should be in the coming days).
I figured I would test the hot-swapping on Singularity just to be safe. Unfortunately my structure does not appear in available facilities (no structures do, only stations). My blueprints show as being in "Other locations," and when I try to use a blueprint directly, the facility box in the industry UI says "None selected". The lab service appears active, and I tried relogging, not sure what else to do. I hope this issue is confined to Singularity. At any rate, I am currently unable to verify hot swapping for my use case.
Anyone else doing any testing yet? |
Stefanie Shardani
Trading Corporation.
0
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Posted - 2017.06.12 19:51:10 -
[24] - Quote
What, if no empty Service Slot is available to put in another lab to "hot swap"? Will i be forced to hardly stop peoples running jobs? |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
3026
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Posted - 2017.06.13 19:36:47 -
[25] - Quote
Hot swapping isn't working for me. When I onlined my Hyasyoda and offlined the research lab all jobs stopped and couldn't be restarted until I put the original lab back online. Is there a trick to this that I'm missing? |
Careby
325
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Posted - 2017.06.13 20:01:23 -
[26] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Hot swapping isn't working for me. When I onlined my Hyasyoda and offlined the research lab all jobs stopped and couldn't be restarted until I put the original lab back online. Is there a trick to this that I'm missing? I installed the hyasyoda and removed the original and my jobs continued running. Maybe it's the offlining part that's the problem.
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Raindeth
FACTION Inc.
21
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Posted - 2017.06.13 21:16:59 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Good afternoon everyone.
This service module will provide exactly the same services as a normal Standup Research Lab I, but uses 16.7% less PWG and fuel
A much more useful reduction would be less CPU. Can we do this? |
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1846
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Posted - 2017.06.14 05:51:09 -
[28] - Quote
Where is the NPC, who will offer me a BPC for my data chip? |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
3027
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Posted - 2017.06.14 18:03:56 -
[29] - Quote
Careby wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:Hot swapping isn't working for me. When I onlined my Hyasyoda and offlined the research lab all jobs stopped and couldn't be restarted until I put the original lab back online. Is there a trick to this that I'm missing? I installed the hyasyoda and removed the original and my jobs continued running. Maybe it's the offlining part that's the problem.
This turned out to be correct. Many thanks. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
3027
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Posted - 2017.06.14 18:04:44 -
[30] - Quote
HandelsPharmi wrote:Where is the NPC, who will offer me a BPC for my data chip?
There isn't one. Double click the data chip and it will open and give you a BPC. |
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