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Velsharoon
Gallente Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.05.08 22:50:00 -
[1]
As soon as we hit local everyone safespots or logs. I have jumped in and within 20 seconds I can scan down an npcer, I warp to it. and usually they are out when i hit the belt. I physically cant scan any faster.
Are we not supposed to hunt in 0.0 or shall we just camp gates?
Solutions are to remove local or even give us a 2 min delay till local updates. Please for the love of god this is rediculous. But ofc this will just get ignored while people CCP introduce more crappy features.
I had fallen in love with eve over the last couple of months, and now im wondering if theres any point in piracy anymore
*sadface*
PS I will fight equal fights blah blah, however i need to pirate for isk
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The Slayer
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.08 23:15:00 -
[2]
What I hate is the obvious isk farming ravens who safe/cloak/log whenever someone enters system but are there ratting 23/7. I safe/cloak when im ratting but will go refit and fight if given the chance.
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Hannobaal
Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.05.08 23:17:00 -
[3]
You have a strategy to catch people that has been countered by another strategy by the prey, and instead of thinking and finding another way to kill them, you come here and ask for ccp to make it easier for you to continue with the same old strategy? ------------------ "If you ever need anything please don't Hesitate to ask someone else first." |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.08 23:18:00 -
[4]
gate camp
let me know where you set it up and ill come die at it for you - ill even load up on some minerals and ammo just to make you happy let me know where and what kind of ammo
____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
turnschuh
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2007.05.08 23:21:00 -
[5]
Edited by: turnschuh on 08/05/2007 23:20:56
- get a recon ship and camp them cloaked - find out the last belt he was in, log off. wait a 1-2min, log on again. - train your scanning skillz (depending on system of course, you can scan someone in a belt in like 10sec) - camp gates - go to a populated system with many people in local so you will not get noticed that fast - anchor a bubble at the last belt he was ratting or at the next he will warp to - ...
seriously there are many ways to get npcers, you just have to be smart. killing npcers is easy enough anyway.
In one point I agree though, almost any lvl4 mission in empire has scrambling/webbing frigs while in 0.0 they are very rare.
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Velsharoon
Gallente Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.05.08 23:26:00 -
[6]
Camping :(
And its 0.0 for crying out loud, danger etc. The tactic of watching local is retarded, the counter to someone coming in is scanning for them not watching local.
And sitting cloaked in one system while the farmer is sitting in another system using another farmer...yeh fun times.
I dont need ccp to do jack **** for me, but make the game risky like I thought it was supposed to be.
And i scan people down as fast as humanly possible, I can do nothing else as i have stated.
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Vactet
Immortalis Silens
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Posted - 2007.05.08 23:29:00 -
[7]
Local...is like your awareness of your surroundings. In real life everyday i see people who are blissfully unaware and just trotting through life. Those are the types of people who get mugged/stabbed/robbed/shot/etc and wonder "Why! How could this have happened?" afterwards. Same goes for eve. If you arent aware of all stimuli being put off by the game then you are infact a small brained twit. It is your fault and yours alone if you get caught by a hunter (PvPer or pirate). If you are aware then you can easily avoid the hunter and live another day as it were.
For those saying that the hunter should have an easier time, please bang your head against your desk a few times, i think something is loose up there...try to get it back where it belongs.
The why is simple, lets look at the ..uh oh...real world. Lets take a classic predator and prey example. Lion and and the wildebeest (And yes that is spelled correctly). Alot of the time, the lion does not get a kill and misses his/her chance because the prey was aware. Some of the time though, the prey is not aware and thus is easily killed by the predator. The predators often go for the sickly members of the heard (Or whatever you call alot of wildebeests) because they are often hampered in their ability to be as aware as the others and flee when needed.
Point being, the balance is right where it should be. The intelligent ones partake in measures to ensure their survival. Those slower-witted ones do not and get nailed. Not saying that every one that gets nailed is an idiot, just that you were not aware of the situation as well as you should have been.
Point being, leave it as is and soon the predators will get new tactics and suddenly kill alot more of their prey. Then the prey will adapt again. Round and round we go
Sig being redone. Please stand by.
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed.
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Ash Donai
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Posted - 2007.05.08 23:40:00 -
[8]
CCP ought to remove the ability to put cloaks on anything but ships specifically made for cloaks (those that have the CPU bonus). Done and done.
Cloaking battleships is bull, it's like a Raven with a built in "I win!" button.
Farmers are smart, bubbles won't do anything, they will log out, when log back in and log back out before their warp is completed, so that they end up at a different location than the one where they originated from.
Not only are they smart, but their time is also cheap, and they will out-wait you easily, or log in a different Raven pilot a couple systems over.
Again, remove the ability to fit cloaks on anything but native cloakers, and at least half the problem is solved.
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turnschuh
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2007.05.08 23:45:00 -
[9]
I dont know why you all call them "farmers". Most 0.0 ratters are just normal people like you and me. I dont know where you fly around but I have never met any "farmers" in 0.0. And I doupt there are any at all, the risk is way to high for them and the reward to little.
Beside if a BS lands in a bubble, you have enough time to aggro it to get him a 15min pvp timer.
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LinBadar
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.08 23:45:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Vactet Local...is like your awareness of your surroundings. In real life everyday i see people who are blissfully unaware and just trotting through life. Those are the types of people who get mugged/stabbed/robbed/shot/etc and wonder "Why! How could this have happened?" afterwards. Same goes for eve. If you arent aware of all stimuli being put off by the game then you are infact a small brained twit. It is your fault and yours alone if you get caught by a hunter (PvPer or pirate). If you are aware then you can easily avoid the hunter and live another day as it were.
For those saying that the hunter should have an easier time, please bang your head against your desk a few times, i think something is loose up there...try to get it back where it belongs.
The why is simple, lets look at the ..uh oh...real world. Lets take a classic predator and prey example. Lion and and the wildebeest (And yes that is spelled correctly). Alot of the time, the lion does not get a kill and misses his/her chance because the prey was aware. Some of the time though, the prey is not aware and thus is easily killed by the predator. The predators often go for the sickly members of the heard (Or whatever you call alot of wildebeests) because they are often hampered in their ability to be as aware as the others and flee when needed.
Point being, the balance is right where it should be. The intelligent ones partake in measures to ensure their survival. Those slower-witted ones do not and get nailed. Not saying that every one that gets nailed is an idiot, just that you were not aware of the situation as well as you should have been.
Point being, leave it as is and soon the predators will get new tactics and suddenly kill alot more of their prey. Then the prey will adapt again. Round and round we go
Only difference here is that a wildebeest doesn't have a window that automatically tells them when a lion has come to 'drink at their waterhole'.
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Vactet
Immortalis Silens
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Posted - 2007.05.08 23:53:00 -
[11]
Hmm ok fair enough, but allow me to give you a counter analogy then. Wildebeests have the sense of smell. We..do not. Smells travel a long way on the wind unlike sound and sight. The wildebeests ability to smell a predator because they (The predator) is upwind of them is like our local.
Point being. We have sight and sound (Sorta..) and local. Most prey have sight, sound, and smell.
To further clarify, because we lack the ability to smell in the game (Sorry, i actually dont want that technology to be invented...two words why....Beer Fart) we are lacking one of our three main senses of preservation. Local..just replaces it without the bad smells.
As for my sig..[CENSORED BY CCP] <--pretty much sums it up.
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed.
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Ash Donai
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Posted - 2007.05.08 23:53:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Ash Donai on 08/05/2007 23:49:57
Originally by: turnschuh I dont know why you all call them "farmers". Most 0.0 ratters are just normal people like you and me. I dont know where you fly around but I have never met any "farmers" in 0.0. And I doupt there are any at all, the risk is way to high for them and the reward to little.
The risk is very very low. All you need is a T1 fitted Raven which can be insured, but that is essentially irrelevant as they are never caught anyway.
You haven't met any farmers? Have a look in Branch, from 91PC-E (Venal) and heading up the pipe to BKG-Q2. Several NPC corp ratting Ravens there all at all times of day, they will log as soon as you enter the system for the most part.
How about an entire farmer corp? [DOOMS] which now is part of the Xelas alliance, for reasons unknown, perhaps they pay hefty dues to be able to enjoy blue status.
Saying there are no farmers in 0.0 is a bit naive really, where do you think all the ISK that is for sale online is coming from?
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Hannobaal
Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.05.08 23:57:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Velsharoon I dont need ccp to do jack **** for me, but make the game risky like I thought it was supposed to be.
You being able to be succesful in using a particular strategy or other and the game being risky or not are completely different issues. What you're saying in effect is "my strategy should work even when the prey knows about it and has found a way to counter it". No. They're playing it smart. You should have to as well. Find another way of catching them.
That said, I do think local should be changed to where you only show up if you write in it, but that's another issue.
By the way, don't you also rely on local when you're hunting? Or how would you know what system to scan in for targets? Me thinks you would be here whining about having to scan endlessly in random empty systems in order to find targets that mostly aren't there if local didn't exist. ------------------ "If you ever need anything please don't Hesitate to ask someone else first." |
Velsharoon
Gallente Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.05.08 23:57:00 -
[14]
They are all over the place, usually perkone, couple of months old and named dfgjohggthg
I was in the north and it was managable, still found "normal" people to kill. But even from a design viewpoint, I totally hate local anyway so :)
I dont want to catch every npcer or anything, just a small delay. Or any other solution.
And to the person saying about the bubble, we dont camp. Roaming is were its at.
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Vactet
Immortalis Silens
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Posted - 2007.05.08 23:59:00 -
[15]
@Linbar Just an afterthought. Local should be kept..but tweaked. It should not be automated, it should require manual effort in order to trully be used as a sense of detecting danger...or..prey. I have no problem with having to work for my safety, or my kill (depending on my mood). What I do have a problem with is the inability to influence my own awareness of the situation.
As for my sig..[CENSORED BY CCP] <--pretty much sums it up.
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed.
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Velsharoon
Gallente Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.05.09 00:00:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: Velsharoon I dont need ccp to do jack **** for me, but make the game risky like I thought it was supposed to be.
You being able to be succesful in using a particular strategy or other and the game being risky or not are completely different issues. What you're saying in effect is "my strategy should work even when the prey knows about it and has found a way to counter it". No. They're playing it smart. You should have to as well. Find another way of catching them.
That said, I do think local should be changed to where you only show up if you write in it, but that's another issue.
By the way, don't you also rely on local when you're hunting? Or how would you know what system to scan in for targets? Me thinks you would be here whining about having to scan endlessly in random empty systems in order to find targets that mostly aren't there if local didn't exist.
me thinks your wrong, I played in the ****** up patch when we had no local and it was awesome, I unlike other people like to use my skills as a hunter. The chase is better than the catch as they say. Except I would like to catch people :|.
I wish you would tell me how to catch someone when they just leave or log out. What do you want fraps of me doing everything I can?
This is a question of belt piracy, and the ridiculous state that I as a person think its at. Do you belt pirate? Or as its also known hitting enemy supply lines if your an alliance nub :P
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MissileRus
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Posted - 2007.05.09 00:02:00 -
[17]
Edited by: MissileRus on 09/05/2007 00:03:35
Originally by: Ash Donai
Again, remove the ability to fit cloaks on anything but native cloakers, and at least half the problem is solved.
right.. why dont we remove bubbles too so gatecampers have to go and hunt stuff instead of camping all day, im sure they would like that.. or maybe remove scramblers and webs from frigates! their not powerfull enough to use sutch weapons TBH, stopping a battleship with that size difference is completely lame! and we should remove haulers from the game too, its only carebears using them im a pvper so i dont need haulers...
having a logoff right when someone enters a system can just be countered with longer warp off timer when logging out. should be enough time to scan for the pilot if you manage to pick the right spot before he goes *poff* but could also ruin lives in case of connection problems... witch means they wont do that, and it can be cheated easely anyways..
id say if you suspect someone is macroer report them for investigation, if it is a "scared" player wanting to avoid loosing his gemstone its perfectly fine. theres far worse things then having a player logoff while not even in a fight tbh.. that goes for cloaking aswell, its far worse to have the 24/7 cloaking spies then have some ratter safe/cloak.. a cloak nerf might work, but its not needed imo.. always better to have stuff buffed then nerfed/removed! and theres tons of stuff coming with scanners and all kinds of things.. and hopefully that wont be too powerfull so ratters wont have a chance at all when a hunting party/pirate swings by.. but might make it harder for macroers that use the logoff tactic..
removing cloaks for everyone because someone cant catch a scared NPC'er is kinda stupid proposal... sure might be a macro/farmer but then its up to the player to figgure out how to catch him and theres plenty of methods mentioned.
and as always if theres suspicion that it is a cheater/macro report it, then use any of the tactics to mess with him..
--------------------------- 4. i like pizza |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.09 00:08:00 -
[18]
if you want to gate camp i promise to come with some minerals and your favorite ammo
just tell me when where and what ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
LinBadar
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.09 00:34:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Vactet Hmm ok fair enough, but allow me to give you a counter analogy then. Wildebeests have the sense of smell. We..do not. Smells travel a long way on the wind unlike sound and sight. The wildebeests ability to smell a predator because they (The predator) is upwind of them is like our local.
Point being. We have sight and sound (Sorta..) and local. Most prey have sight, sound, and smell.
To further clarify, because we lack the ability to smell in the game (Sorry, i actually dont want that technology to be invented...two words why....Beer Fart) we are lacking one of our three main senses of preservation. Local..just replaces it without the bad smells.
To continue with your wilderness analogy, i think the sense of smell is more like the ships scanner in that it's fallible. It's possible for a lion to go down wind of the wildebeest and therefore greatly reduce the risk of being detected. Local, in its current state, does not have this hole.
I don't think local should necessarily be removed, it just shouldn't automatically act as your herald and cue the trumpet fanfare.
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Marquis Dean
Energy.
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Posted - 2007.05.09 00:37:00 -
[20]
SiJira stfu.
---
Originally by: korrey Marquis I have to admit, without you there wouldn't be much laughter in these forums.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.09 00:42:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Marquis Dean SiJira stfu.
quiet party ****er ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.05.09 02:00:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Velsharoon
As soon as we hit local everyone safespots or logs. I have jumped in and within 20 seconds I can scan down an npcer, I warp to it. and usually they are out when i hit the belt. I physically cant scan any faster.
Are we not supposed to hunt in 0.0 or shall we just camp gates?
Solutions are to remove local or even give us a 2 min delay till local updates. Please for the love of god this is rediculous. But ofc this will just get ignored while people CCP introduce more crappy features.
I had fallen in love with eve over the last couple of months, and now im wondering if theres any point in piracy anymore
*sadface*
PS I will fight equal fights blah blah, however i need to pirate for isk
Translation: 'WAAAAAH, I fed too much off the same people and they have learned not to stick around. I don't know if its my -10 security standing or the part of my bio that reads "YARRR, I BE A PIRATE" that gives me away, so I'll blame local.'
Just like the people getting ganked in high sec, deal or GTFO thanks.
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Phrixus Zephyr
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.09 02:06:00 -
[23]
Originally by: The Slayer What I hate is the obvious isk farming ravens who safe/cloak/log whenever someone enters system but are there ratting 23/7. I safe/cloak when im ratting but will go refit and fight if given the chance.
We have a few Goons up in Venal who are obviously isk farmers. Infact there is a group of 15-20 of them all in different alliances ranging from FLA to Goonswarm who on occation all ally up on a gate and shoot back at you. They are almost all in differnt corps and alliances, some are even hostile to each other.
Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
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Arii Smith
Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.05.09 02:28:00 -
[24]
Originally by: turnschuh I dont know why you all call them "farmers". Most 0.0 ratters are just normal people like you and me. I dont know where you fly around but I have never met any "farmers" in 0.0. And I doupt there are any at all, the risk is way to high for them and the reward to little.
Beside if a BS lands in a bubble, you have enough time to aggro it to get him a 15min pvp timer.
I think you should go out to 0.0 more... I can go 30 jumps without a single contact (blue or otherwise), and in my home area there are a ton of farmers. I say that they are farmers because they speak fluent chinese and rat 23/7 until my corp and I hunt them down.
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max bygraves
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Posted - 2007.05.09 03:04:00 -
[25]
Learn the skill "Backstab" and hang around menethil harbour.
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Senite Ascani
Gallente Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.09 03:15:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Velsharoon
As soon as we hit local everyone safespots or logs. I have jumped in and within 20 seconds I can scan down an npcer, I warp to it. and usually they are out when i hit the belt. I physically cant scan any faster.
Are we not supposed to hunt in 0.0 or shall we just camp gates?
Solutions are to remove local or even give us a 2 min delay till local updates. Please for the love of god this is rediculous. But ofc this will just get ignored while people CCP introduce more crappy features.
I had fallen in love with eve over the last couple of months, and now im wondering if theres any point in piracy anymore
*sadface*
PS I will fight equal fights blah blah, however i need to pirate for isk
Evolve or quit
/me shrugs "I'm Senite Ascani, and I wholeheartedly endorse this product and/or service." |
Senite Ascani
Gallente Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.09 03:19:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Senite Ascani on 09/05/2007 03:15:47
Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr
We have a few Goons up in Venal who are obviously isk farmers. Infact there is a group of 15-20 of them all in different alliances ranging from FLA to Goonswarm who on occation all ally up on a gate and shoot back at you. They are almost all in differnt corps and alliances, some are even hostile to each other.
We've had similiar occurances in Lower Domain/Providence, though they weren't Goons, or FLA. Odd stuff too be sure. "I'm Senite Ascani, and I wholeheartedly endorse this product and/or service." |
Kirex
Gallente Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.05.09 03:20:00 -
[28]
Im ok with a 30sec delay, but only if the person jumping in doesn't have local for 30secs either.
Click above for my killboard stats. |
Moraguth
Amarr Rangers
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Posted - 2007.05.09 03:24:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Velsharoon Camping :(
And its 0.0 for crying out loud, danger etc. The tactic of watching local is retarded, the counter to someone coming in is scanning for them not watching local.
And sitting cloaked in one system while the farmer is sitting in another system using another farmer...yeh fun times.
I dont need ccp to do jack **** for me, but make the game risky like I thought it was supposed to be.
And i scan people down as fast as humanly possible, I can do nothing else as i have stated.
I didn't read all the posts, didn't need to, they're always the same gripes.
The only one that I want to address right now is the "remove local, make my prey scan for me 23/7"
That is the most retarded idea i've ever heard of. In order to do some ratting, you must keep your scanner open and hit "scan" every 2 seconds for hours on end or else you're going to get exploded. That would be 30 scans a min, 1800 scans an hour. Just imagine all the BS lag that would cause. Also, who wants to be doing that.
All you want is an intel-tool taken away from them, and I can understand that. But currently, the "directional scanner" is not the best tool for keeping an eye on your surroundings because you have to click it every couple seconds. imagine if you had to click your guns every couple seconds, or your drones (that one might be irony, not sure), or your missiles. Imagine you had to click "refresh" on your overview every couple seconds, everyone would scream bloody murder.
You need a new solution, OR, an addendum to your solution to change the scanner to be more .... self purpetuating? I don't know, but that doesn't sound like a good idea either.
good game |
Wrayeth
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.05.09 03:24:00 -
[30]
Originally by: The Slayer What I hate is the obvious isk farming ravens who safe/cloak/log whenever someone enters system but are there ratting 23/7. I safe/cloak when im ratting but will go refit and fight if given the chance.
\o Slayer
I hate those ravens, too. What I hate even more is that when you do catch them off guard in a belt, then warp away even if you have multiple points on them. We ran into a raven with four stabs a week or three ago that somehow managed to still NPC. I don't think they quite went far enough with the WCS nerf.
P.S. WTF are you doing in Goons? -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
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