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KillerofAngels
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Posted - 2007.04.21 20:44:00 -
[1]
Edited by: KillerofAngels on 21/04/2007 20:40:54 Yes...this is an alt just b/c I don't want any bias by posting w/ my main.
Would it be smarter and more efficient monetarily to rat in 0.0 space or do Lvl 4 missions (Minmatar)? I could probably do both without any significant worries, but I have to be able to support my ship requirements for PVP combat.
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Marquis Dean
Indigo Fade
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Posted - 2007.04.21 21:16:00 -
[2]
Running missions will make you way more money, especially if you run them in 0.0 - 0.6. They do get a little dull if you run them over and over again for days on end, but very profitable.
--- Indigo Fade is now selling jumpclones for superb prices, please see Marquis Dean's bio and/or evemail/convo him ingame.
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Krashtest
Exploratory Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.04.21 22:29:00 -
[3]
It would depend on the typical quality spawns you have available in your area in 0.0. I have hunted in Delve, and had regular access to triple 1.85 mil spawns. On a very good day hunting , i could end up with 100 mil in bounties alone.
If you do not have constant top end spawns, then missions will make slightly more in the same amount of play time.
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.04.22 07:47:00 -
[4]
As stated above it depends a bit on the quality of 0.0 you have acsess to and if you have very good setup for missions or not. I would say that 0.0 hunting breaks more or less even with level 4 missions in lower end high sec space assuming you have good skills and good NPC setup (T2/faction for lev 4 so you can do them fast and without warpouts).
Below true sec -0.7 however nothing you can do in high sec lev 4 missions can earn you better than hunting in there (if you chain them). It's possible to earn similar isk tho in lower end low sec or 0.0 missions (so i have heard, no experience on that myself).
Without 'good' lev 4 setup or with low sp 0.0 ratting wins. With 'good' setup (say CNR with few faction gadgets) you will break even with mediocre quality 0.0.
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Leandro Salazar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.04.22 08:06:00 -
[5]
Actually I think 0.0 got changed to spawn the same rats region-wide. At least I read that somewhere, and my experience (getting triple 1.85 in -0.2) supports it.
Either way, there are quite a few ifs here.
If you want to surpass 0.0 ratting revenue with missions, you need an expensive ship. If you just fly a plain 200 mil battleship, you will make more by ratting than by missioning, the only exception being 0.0 missions since out there LP are still worth something and the rewards are also higher. If you can afford the nice shiney faction fitted faction battleship to run missions efficiently, you make slightly more than 0.0 ratting with lowsec Q20 agents, and slightly less with good Q highsec agents. This includes finding the odd commander in 0.0.
If you happen upon an officer though and he actually drops you good officer loot, you just pwned any mission runner ;) --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel There is no 'e' in Caldari
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Ralara
Caldari Lilandri Foundation
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Posted - 2007.04.22 10:19:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
If you happen upon an officer though and he actually drops you good officer loot, you just pwned any mission runner ;)
which you then sell to a mission runner for a lot :)
I'm a corp thief. And remember, I only do it because I like your robot.
Nice Isk. I'll take it. |
Kai Jyokoroi
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.04.22 16:51:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar Actually I think 0.0 got changed to spawn the same rats region-wide. At least I read that somewhere, and my experience (getting triple 1.85 in -0.2) supports it.
Either way, there are quite a few ifs here.
If you want to surpass 0.0 ratting revenue with missions, you need an expensive ship. If you just fly a plain 200 mil battleship, you will make more by ratting than by missioning, the only exception being 0.0 missions since out there LP are still worth something and the rewards are also higher.
If you can afford the nice shiney faction fitted faction battleship to run missions efficiently, you make slightly more than 0.0 ratting with lowsec Q20 agents, and slightly less with good Q highsec agents. This includes finding the odd commander in 0.0.
If you happen upon an officer though and he actually drops you good officer loot, you just pwned any mission runner ;)
My tactic is to scour a chain of 7 or 8 systems I have, killing nothing but triple 1 mil+ spawns and the best cruisers and moving on (to check for things like med dim nos / modulated tachs - 11/12 mil each.) I nearly always get at least 1 faction spawn, and sometimes up to three. Salvaging the TS / officer wrecks tends to drop another 2-300 mil of t2 salvage components as well.
Add the odd hidden plex where a nightmare or bhaal BPC drops and a team of 3 makes 400 mil each for an hour or twos work and I don't understand why anyone grinds those boring as all hell grind missions.
I consistently average 100 mil in 3 hours, and only need to do this once every couple of months when an ex*****ve pvp ship goes pop - tell me mission runners do better than that. _____________ WE ARE THE COLLECTIVE. RESISTANCE IS VOLTAGE OVER CURRENT.
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.04.22 21:04:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kai Jyokoroi and I don't understand why anyone grinds those boring as all hell grind missions.
Maybe because many people don't have your kind of safe access to rich 0.0 resources?
But at least finally someone admits how much better 0.0 can be rather than stating how missions are oh so great so they are nerfed.
As for 0.0 missions, seeing how you probably can earn enough LP for a pirate implant in one mission out there, 100 mil per hour does not seem all that unreasonable. In lowsec/highsec it is MUCH less though due to the extreme drop in LP value over the past year. --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel There is no 'e' in Caldari
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Vasiliyan
Black Straw Research
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Posted - 2007.04.23 14:30:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
As for 0.0 missions, seeing how you probably can earn enough LP for a pirate implant in one mission out there, 100 mil per hour does not seem all that unreasonable.
On that subject, do you know (I'd like up to date confirmation on this) what the LP values for pirate implants from pirate agents are?
I've been intermittently working my way up the Guristas agents, and so far I've had regular +1 and +2s offered, along with an offer from Estamel Tharchon for 100 units of Small Shield Booster I. Okay...
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Marquis Dean
Indigo Fade
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Posted - 2007.04.23 15:58:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Vasiliyan along with an offer from Estamel Tharchon for 100 units of Small Shield Booster I. Okay...
Heh heh.
--- Indigo Fade is now selling jumpclones for superb prices, please see Marquis Dean's bio and/or evemail/convo him ingame.
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Xerek
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2007.04.24 02:07:00 -
[11]
You can make way more money from killing belt rats in 0.0 due to their bounties and quality loot they drop. The problem is you can't alway hunt when you want. May be hostiles in the area, others consuming the belt spawns, or whatever corp/alliance controls the area may demand your participation in something. There are a whole host of problems with ratting in 0.0, but the rewards can be very high. Mission running in empire doesn't pay as well. The bounties are a fraction of 0.0 comparable rats, there is no marketable loot dropped, and the mission isk reward is usually comparable to one good spawn in one belt in 0.0. BUT, you can log on and run a mission without hassle anytime. That makes it priceless to me.
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Arron S
Gallente Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.04.24 05:53:00 -
[12]
I'v lost fewer ships ratting in 0.0 then I have done running missions.
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Chia Mulholland
Mulholland Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.04.24 06:40:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar Actually I think 0.0 got changed to spawn the same rats region-wide. At least I read that somewhere, and my experience (getting triple 1.85 in -0.2) supports it.
I'm in a system pretty close to true 0.0 and I've never seen a Serp Flotilla Admiral there. But I've seen them in -0.5 in the same region.
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Ralara
Caldari Lilandri Foundation
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Posted - 2007.04.24 07:53:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Xerek You can make way more money from killing belt rats in 0.0 due to their bounties and quality loot they drop. The problem is you can't alway hunt when you want. May be hostiles in the area, others consuming the belt spawns, or whatever corp/alliance controls the area may demand your participation in something. There are a whole host of problems with ratting in 0.0, but the rewards can be very high. Mission running in empire doesn't pay as well. The bounties are a fraction of 0.0 comparable rats, there is no marketable loot dropped, and the mission isk reward is usually comparable to one good spawn in one belt in 0.0. BUT, you can log on and run a mission without hassle anytime. That makes it priceless to me.
The bounties are a "fraction" yes - about half to three quarters. A Usurper Gurista in 0.0 is what, 1.85m? In missions it's 1.125m (give or take). That's a pretty big fraction :)
The thing is there's just a lot more battleships in 0.0 belts on a "per hour in space" basis than with missions.
Mission rats drop loot with no problems - many 425mm railguns, 350s etc. Multispec invulns, 100mn MWDs... all sell for 200k up to 1.2m each. Plus you can easily salvage in peace - 30 mins on Worlds Collide and 20 mins salvaging can net (if you're lucky) 60-70m.
I'm a corp thief. And remember, I only do it because I like your robot.
Nice Isk. I'll take it. |
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.04.24 08:34:00 -
[15]
To run missions with those times you need very very good setup and skills. Or alt helping to boost your dps. In any case it's setup most people are unwilling to risk in 0.0 so to summarize:
In 0.0 you use 200 mil BS and get around 50 mil/h on average. In sec 0.5 L4Q18 combat agent you use ~2..4 bil BS and get around 30 .. 40 mil/h.
While it is ofcource true that if you get 'good' missions your isk/h can be quite it's also case with 0.0 where you can get faction/officer and get high peak rewards. In level 4 missions all it takes is say unauthorized military precence or massive attack where you sit and blast frigates for a while to get considerable drop in rewards. All that said I'm not against slight boost to 0.0 altho on the other hand considering 0.0 complexses it's profitablity is quite ok if you look at whole regions. And propablity to lose ship in missions is higher than losing one in 0.0 NPCing (assuming you look at local and dont take unneccesary risks like jumping around without scouts).
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Ralara
Caldari Lilandri Foundation
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Posted - 2007.04.24 09:09:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Carniflex To run missions with those times you need very very good setup and skills. Or alt helping to boost your dps. In any case it's setup most people are unwilling to risk in 0.0 so to summarize:
In 0.0 you use 200 mil BS and get around 50 mil/h on average. In sec 0.5 L4Q18 combat agent you use ~2..4 bil BS and get around 30 .. 40 mil/h.
I'd say including ship, 900m isk can do it just as effectively (maybe 5-10% slower than a 2-4b isk ship). But yes I didn't factor that in. To run missions fast (no warp outs and now help) you'll need to spend quite a bit. And yes, "average Joe" is (understandably) unwilling to risk a ship like that in 0.0.
Quote: While it is ofcource true that if you get 'good' missions your isk/h can be quite it's also case with 0.0 where you can get faction/officer and get high peak rewards. In level 4 missions all it takes is say unauthorized military precence or massive attack where you sit and blast frigates for a while to get considerable drop in rewards. All that said I'm not against slight boost to 0.0 altho on the other hand considering 0.0 complexses it's profitablity is quite ok if you look at whole regions. And propablity to lose ship in missions is higher than losing one in 0.0 NPCing (assuming you look at local and dont take unneccesary risks like jumping around without scouts).
Quite true. But even looking at local, the mere presence of an enemy, even a cloaked AFKer, can stop you ratting for hours. If I know there's, say, a corp/alliance gang or even a single person in system with me and my ratting raven, I am not going to continue ratting in that system because I know they could very well be set up for PvP. What I usually do is wait 5 minutes, warping around safe spots (all time lost on ratting bounties of course). If they are still there, then they are hunting me, so I leave system. But even then, going "next door" is out of the question since they'll just follow. A good 4 or 5 jumps away, perhaps, but you have to start all over again. It's quite annoying, I find.
the rewards of 0.0 are amazing, if you can get on with it, but "risk vs reward" it's unlikely and quite fair, that you'll encounter hostiles or be competing with others for the same rats.
Overall I think when you factor in time spent warping around SS, or being distracted by enemies or being called away for alliance ops, missions are the better bet. And in the odd mission (Guristas Extravaganza) you can get faction spawn as well. It's a matter of cost effectiveness vs time. If you can get away with ratting in a nice system in 0.0 and are rarely disturbed then you'll likely make more than a hardcore mission runner due to less investment in ship, and higher bounties. However, that said, if you are in a hotspot (and with the "war" going on, where's not a hotspot these days?), then mission running will likely make you more isk over time, including the isk spent on your ship setup and implants to begin with.
Also factor in why you are doing the missions. Grinding missions for isk is boring. doing missions to beat your record etc can be fun and challenging. Not the rats themselves but the challenge against yourself and ship setup. It's not something you can really do with ratting. Of course there's always complexes - they can be a lot of fun if you're in it for the challenge and not the isk.
But I'm starting to babble a bit now :)
I'm a corp thief. And remember, I only do it because I like your robot.
Nice Isk. I'll take it. |
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.04.24 10:01:00 -
[17]
True. For me missions break more or less even with mediocre 0.0 ratting after I take in general inefficency of 0.0 life (need to defend it, haul equipment plus ocasional hostile) and balance scales tip towards empire with high grade implants I can sport in high sec.
Thats then around -0.3 true sec vs sec 0.6 L4Q17 combat agent. Dont use very stellar setup either for missions - just CNR with T2 fittings.
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Xerek
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2007.04.25 02:47:00 -
[18]
The million isk battleship npc is pretty scarce in missions. The one named npc in a mission or those two bs's in duo of death, but the vast majority of bs's yield around 700k. Maybe I should be running Caldari lvl4 missions instead of Gal.
As for the loot, it really doesn't even bare comparison. Check areas deep in empire for the price of a 425 proto hybrid and then check Torrinos or any other choke point system bordering an appropriate 0.0 area. Compare any valueable equipment and you'll get some idea of how mission rat and 0.0 rat loot compares.
Now, I get the feeling some think I have an agenda here. I don't. I'm giving a comparison between 0.0 ratting and missioning. I don't want 0.0 ratting nerfed. You pay for what you get in 0.0 unless you lucked into some sweet deal where you don't have to do much to stay in 0.0. Otherwise you will never know what you're going to do until you log on in 0.0. That kind of "What will EvE have in store for me today!" attitude may be for some people. I personaly like "I think I'll log on to EvE and do _____!" attitude. You have to live in empire to have that 100% of the time.
By the way, if you decide to go live in 0.0, I made the most money buying stuff on the cheap from lazy or rich pilots and taking it to empire to sell. Good luck either way.
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