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Benilopax
The Ashen Lion Syndicate
59
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Posted - 2011.12.26 12:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm just wondering whether POCO have reached their full potential, both positive and negative?
I see prices have altered but have people lost profit gained profit or stayed the same?
I read recently only 18 POCOs have been destroyed in low sec, which suggests that the fears of needless POCO popping were unfounded, has that changed?
Are high sec PI people as screwed as they thought they were, what about low sec PI people?
Have POCOs created any small gang warfare in 0.0?
Answers welcome.
Thanks |
March rabbit
Ganse Shadow of xXDEATHXx
49
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Posted - 2011.12.26 12:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
well. in my corp i have roles needed to control POCO. ;)
it's nice to pay 0/0 taxes when i need |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
259
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Posted - 2011.12.26 13:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
PI marked did no crash so propably good |
Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
5
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Posted - 2011.12.26 13:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Benilopax wrote:I read recently only 18 POCOs have been destroyed in low sec, which suggests that the fears of needless POCO popping were unfounded, has that changed?
POCOs do not get blown up much in low sec because hanging your arse out for any alliance with supers or mass triage carriers ends in tears.
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. The Lostboys
191
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Posted - 2011.12.26 14:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
We cleared a system of the NPC ones and put up our own. A week later some pirates knocked 3 into reinforced. We got some friends together, invaded and locked down the system, reppeed them all back. The pirates sacrificed a drake to us, but otherwise stayed docked/logged.
Profit has been minimal, years to pay back the investment. CCP employees should never proclaim a feature to be awesome. Only subscribers should. Subscribers can never answer a question posed to CCP. Only CCP can. |
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
8
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Posted - 2011.12.26 15:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Well I have no idea about their effect on low sec PI but they have been very succesful at encouraging fights. We've been on more major fleets to scrap over these things in the last three weeks than everything else combined. |
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
791
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Posted - 2011.12.26 15:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nothing more than a wasted expense for wormhole space.
Very meh. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
thekiller2002us
Order of Celestial Knights S I L E N T.
36
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Posted - 2011.12.26 15:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
I think CCP did a great job- i immediately ignored all of the usual 'sky is falling ussual bullshit' from some of the player-base in relation to the how vulnerable the poco's are. They add a sense of ownership/ influence in the lowsec systems.
I do believe that CCP should make all highsec planets unable to manufacture PI above tier 1 stuff and i would not be surprised if they did do that- but for anyone who lives in lowsec i'm sure they would agree that they have made a change -albeit a small one to lowsec.
Money can be made in poco's. The smartypants in lowsecs can make lots and lots of isk on the o.o% tax in lowsec- if they know what they are doing. In relation to them coming under attack, If i was in a large nullsec alliance- i wouldn't really care about them- especially since lowsec is dead atm- and there are plenty of planets to go around.
CCP have made a very nice niche imo- and I have no sympathey for the highsec manufacturers who can no longer have manufacturing planets because of the tax- or at least its hardly worthwile for them anymore.
The smart highsec may even consider the benfits of finding a small quiet lowsec to put up poco's and continue to make money- but yes a medium sized corp is needed- i think i killed 3 dreads trying to solo them in lowsec- the first week crucible came out.
Taking the question of how long it will take to make returns on the investment of sticking up poco's- well it will take a long time in taxes- but due to the small market spike in some p2/ p3 products i've made up with it through regular pi stuff
tldr: yes pocos are beneficial- better than good.
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Cloora
APEX Unlimited APEX Conglomerate
47
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Posted - 2011.12.26 16:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
I had one of my POCOs reinforced 3 times by the same pirates, but they never have enough numbers online when they come out of reinforced to do anything to them and/or take us on. I've put up a total of 6 POCOs but unless I really abuse the planets they are at with all my alts the amount I make back in taxes from other plays has been about 2.5 million ISK per POCO per day. Not a lot... CEO and Major ShareholderAPEX ConglomerateMaker of Starsi softdrinks and Torped-Os! Cereal http://www.altaholics.blogspot.com
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Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
180
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Posted - 2011.12.26 17:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
They are a long(ish) term investment, similar to a POS. For most moderately populated planets, they will pay themselves off in about 2 months (not counting your own usage). If you use your own POCOs, your return on investment will be much faster.
Even better if you are lucky enough to have plenty of factory colonies on your planet, you could stand to make a considerable amount of ISK off of your POCO, even with a 5% tax.
Of course, an unused POCO will never pay itself off, and if you pick an infrequently used planet to set up a POCO for, you will find that it will take a looooonnnnggg time to pay it off. |
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Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
273
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Posted - 2011.12.26 17:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
My sister in law had a dog named Poco. It crapped all over the place and barked a lot...eventually was ran over by a car...hmmm...sounds about right. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX!
Support our boobies!-á[url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=24221&find=unread[/url]
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Dradius Calvantia
Creative Cookie Procuring Rote Kapelle
176
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Posted - 2011.12.26 17:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Confirming that the new POCOs have succeeded in:
Making money for those who use them intelligently Losing money for those who do not Encouraging more players to come to low sec Encouraging more fights in low sec Getting me a TON of capital kills |
Benilopax
The Ashen Lion Syndicate
59
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Posted - 2011.12.27 17:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
So that's a yes then? |
Amro One
One.
52
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Posted - 2011.12.27 17:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Get the right planets, Lava, plasma, Barren in a 0.1-0.3 you can make easy profit.
I have lost 1 CO so far.
What i have seen, no one has the balls to stay for fights on a CO. |
Jask Avan
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2011.12.27 20:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
As a marketeer/industrialist, I've no interest in low/null nor a skill plan for it. High-sec PI is utter trash.
I just set up a 0.5 PI operation to get to a P3 product. (Or whatever level stuff like robotics and synaptic synapses are.) What with taxes, I'm looking at 45mil a month in expenses, plus resetting it twice a day and hauling stuff twice a week. Another 30 went into startup. At current market hub rates, I'm looking at 90mil revenue. All per month. A month just to start turning a profit, and then I get 45mil a month with a lot of annoyance.
Congratulations me. I just accomplished the same as a a lazy day missioning if I had put the skillpoints toward that instead. Only it took me more time spread over the whole month. Hell, I could do the same mining! |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
62
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Posted - 2011.12.27 20:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:Nothing more than a wasted expense for wormhole space.
Very meh.
Good then its working as intended.
And from reports it does seem they are working as intended as points of PVP interest now. CCP you rock!
Jask Avan wrote:As a marketeer/industrialist, I've no interest in low/null nor a skill plan for it. High-sec PI is utter trash.
I just set up a 0.5 PI operation to get to a P3 product. (Or whatever level stuff like robotics and synaptic synapses are.) What with taxes, I'm looking at 45mil a month in expenses, plus resetting it twice a day and hauling stuff twice a week. Another 30 went into startup. At current market hub rates, I'm looking at 90mil revenue. All Per month. A month just to start turning a profit, and then I get 45mil a month with a lot of annoyance.
Congratulations me. I just accomplished the same as a a lazy day missioning if I had put the skillpoints toward that instead. Only it took me more time spread over the whole month. Hell, I could do the same mining!
My main has perfect PI skills (Both certs to l33t) And I am currently in hisec.
I don't even bother with PI anymore. Because I know that for too long has it become an epic easy source of funds to hisec users. When I was training it in nullsec I had to make extremely quick runs in an expensive fit hauler in case a neut came in and had my number. Hisec folks could do it in a primae and sit on it for hours without much worry.
It is working as intended. Whenever I choose to go back into nullsec the corp that I join will get a BUNCH of PI which will help them in the long run. |
Phizban
The Needs Of The Few The Needs Of The Few Many
92
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Posted - 2011.12.28 02:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
It got me off my carebear ass to go into low-sec and build one, just because I can.
With 2 Ravens, it took... yeah, that long.
Good times.
When it gets blown up, then I can have some fun harrasing a vastly superior force.
At least the PVP is at the time and place of my choosing.
WIN |
Zleon Leigh
36
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Posted - 2011.12.28 05:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
All I've seen is a lot of wasted time doing the same boring ****** that POS bashes entail. Total bust in 0.0. Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital.
CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day |
Tallianna Avenkarde
Beasts of Burden
145
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Posted - 2011.12.28 06:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote:Nothing more than a wasted expense for wormhole space.
Very meh. Good then its working as intended.
Explain this? And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell. |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
62
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Posted - 2011.12.28 06:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
Because lately many WH dwellers have gotten this thing going that anything that can remotely affect their means of free kills or extreme easy money. And are starting to really try to push WH style mechanics on the rest of EVE.
For instance I proposed a balancing solution (I wont go into details here for now) for AFK cloaking that involved on grid timing for potential for detection. At once I was accused of trying to break their "'hole" and that suddenly because they are in a WH they need to be able to be logged in all day to get their kill.
You can debate my idea all you want but that isnt the half of it. In response a WH themed idea was posted to push WH mechanics on normal space by allowing cloakers to VANISH FROM LOCAL
The "solution" to them is not even slightly nerfing their endless waterfall of cash and easy kills. But nerf the rest of the game in benefit of super large alliances and gankers.
Working as intended means pushing back against this madness and say "No" to them for once. "No you cant keep your waterfall of PI for free simply because you are in a WH" They get to experience risk to an important fund asset like the rest of EVE now. |
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Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
395
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Posted - 2011.12.28 09:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
Low sec has to be more than 18. I have two plasma moons in low sec I do PI at and they have changed hands several times already.
Can't imagine anyone is going to make isks like that.
Issler |
Fidelium Mortis
Quantum Cats Syndicate
5
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Posted - 2011.12.28 14:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
We've had a few fights including a couple cap kills due to POCO fights, so I think the implementation has been successful. Dunno about returns on PI though. ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon |
Dr Karsun
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club Care Factor
54
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Posted - 2011.12.28 14:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
I don't think the low sec ones are really a good deal for anyone.
In 0.0 it can be a decent revenue, as poses can.
The problem is a pos pays back the expense of it (if properly managed) within a month. And that's on low-end moons with having to get the higher end moon goos from jita. The same goes for pocos.
The thing is, you invest ~1b in poses (two towers with fuel for a month and all mods, blah blah), it gives you 1b a month... And you can manage a dozen poses at a time (considering you've got the initial investment isk).
So... A POCO gives you 100m per month, you can't really have more than what, 6 planets total? So with a lot of fuss you get 600m a month. While at the same time with poses you get a bil with two towers and, unless pirates come by, two visists to the pos taking ~15 minutes total...
I'd say - pocos are not good isk that's why I quit PI, too much of a hassle. It's still good for the noobs, since it's even better isk than grinding the level 3s to get to level 4s... At least theoretically. Plus if you do actually like it - it's really good business. But the big kids prefer a proper way of investing and turning isk around fast.
"Have you had your morning coffee?" -> the Coffee Lovers Brewing Club is recruiting! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=363976#post363976 |
mnybag1
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2011.12.28 16:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
Dr Karsun wrote:I don't think the low sec ones are really a good deal for anyone.
In 0.0 it can be a decent revenue, as poses can.
The problem is a pos pays back the expense of it (if properly managed) within a month. And that's on low-end moons with having to get the higher end moon goos from jita. The same goes for pocos.
The thing is, you invest ~1b in poses (two towers with fuel for a month and all mods, blah blah), it gives you 1b a month... And you can manage a dozen poses at a time (considering you've got the initial investment isk).
So... A POCO gives you 100m per month, you can't really have more than what, 6 planets total? So with a lot of fuss you get 600m a month. While at the same time with poses you get a bil with two towers and, unless pirates come by, two visists to the pos taking ~15 minutes total...
I'd say - pocos are not good isk that's why I quit PI, too much of a hassle. It's still good for the noobs, since it's even better isk than grinding the level 3s to get to level 4s... At least theoretically. Plus if you do actually like it - it's really good business. But the big kids prefer a proper way of investing and turning isk around fast.
I would venture to guess that your POS set up takes much longer than 15 min a month, since you have transport the high value goo from jita, gather fuels, transfer between poses, etc etc. Even if you have corp mates helping you, that is time spent. Meanwhile, I can spend 15 min a day right before i go to bed reseting my planets on two characters and get 1+ bil a month, and the only extra tine spent is collecting and selling. Furthermore, PI costs VERY little, if any, upkeep. Set it and forget it. No need for fuels or ammo or notifs with the POCO whining feed me. So while the POS reaction set up can net you more income and, sometimes, profit, IMO it is much more work to keep up with, so therefore working as intended. |
Jask Avan
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2011.12.28 16:11:00 -
[25] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:It is working as intended. Whenever I choose to go back into nullsec the corp that I join will get a BUNCH of PI which will help them in the long run. Going from one extreme (Awesome) to the other (As ****** as mining) seems like a bad idea... |
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
803
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Posted - 2011.12.28 17:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Because lately many WH dwellers have gotten this thing going that anything that can remotely affect their means of free kills or extreme easy money. And are starting to really try to push WH style mechanics on the rest of EVE.
For instance I proposed a balancing solution (I wont go into details here for now) for AFK cloaking that involved on grid timing for potential for detection. At once I was accused of trying to break their "'hole" and that suddenly because they are in a WH they need to be able to be logged in all day to get their kill.
You can debate my idea all you want but that isnt the half of it. In response a WH themed idea was posted to push WH mechanics on normal space by allowing cloakers to VANISH FROM LOCAL
The "solution" to them is not even slightly nerfing their endless waterfall of cash and easy kills. But nerf the rest of the game in benefit of super large alliances and gankers.
Working as intended means pushing back against this madness and say "No" to them for once. "No you cant keep your waterfall of PI for free simply because you are in a WH" They get to experience risk to an important fund asset like the rest of EVE now.
The farce is strong in this one.
The actual concept regarding cloaked ships and local is in the Features and Ideas thread. Endeavour is butthurt because no one liked his idea of breaking cloaks. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
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