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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Sales Merchant
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Posted - 2007.04.12 08:07:00 -
[1]
Not only are they removing billions of isk a week into the 'isk sink' in war decs costs but they are also helping traders stay in business by creating more demand for ships and mods empire-wide.
Also, regions where people rarely would go to buy things now have growing markets as people try to avoid The Forge as Privateers are very active there.
So hate them or love them, they are contributing far more to eve in terms of boosting pvp and econmony than most people would realise.
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Jade Grimpkin
Trader's Academy
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Posted - 2007.04.12 10:08:00 -
[2]
Yes, but sadly some of us same traders can't really leave the station. We have made some good money thorugh them though. the sale of pvp modules in my region has definately climbed.
We'd probably manage to stay in business without them too
courier missions and remote buy and sell ftw.
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Treelox
Amarr Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2007.04.12 11:00:00 -
[3]
tbh I think that the Privateer effect most likely balances its self out.
Yes they create more demand for finished goods, but they also slow supply of raw materials. Making them most likely neglagible in effect as a whole. --
FTEK | Production ~ Research ~ Sales ~ Omber Zombie's Wet Work |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.04.12 14:14:00 -
[4]
While war costs are an isk sink, destroying ships and modules is not and destroying ships actually adds isk to the game in the form of insurance payouts. I'm sure it does stimulate people to make purchases, though.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Drakus
Minmatar all professions
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Posted - 2007.04.12 15:43:00 -
[5]
true, they get money for a new ship, but then you have to purchase a new one and then pay insurance out agian...
so they are still creating an isk sink :)
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Omber Zombie
Gallente Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2007.04.12 15:51:00 -
[6]
insurance is an isk sink only if it expires ----------------------
FTEK | Production ~ Research ~ Sales ~ Election Fixing |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2007.04.12 16:35:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Nyphur While war costs are an isk sink, destroying ships and modules is not and destroying ships actually adds isk to the game in the form of insurance payouts. I'm sure it does stimulate people to make purchases, though.
Even with insurance ISK is removed from the game. Im to lazy at the moment but there was a really good discussion about this effect about 2 months back. |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.04.12 16:49:00 -
[8]
Well you never get all your money back in ISK from insurance. Even if you get the 100% insurance you've lost the cost of the insurance because you've already payed the full ship price when you bought the ship... then you pay the insurance price then you get back what you initially payed for the ship (or fairly close to it anyhow if you didn't overpay).
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.04.12 17:38:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Even with insurance ISK is removed from the game. Im to lazy at the moment but there was a really good discussion about this effect about 2 months back.
Only if ship insurance is renewed three times (plus initial purchase) before being cashed in. Against privateers, we can safely assume that ships are either uninsured disposable ships or are blown up within the first, second or third insurance cycle. In this case, isk is in fact added to the game.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Ki Shodan
Gallente deep blue
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Posted - 2007.04.12 18:20:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Shadarle Well you never get all your money back in ISK from insurance. Even if you get the 100% insurance you've lost the cost of the insurance because you've already payed the full ship price when you bought the ship... then you pay the insurance price then you get back what you initially payed for the ship (or fairly close to it anyhow if you didn't overpay).
That is only true for your personal wallet, not for the overall "creation" of ISK, which is meant in this case.
Example: A has 100 Million. A buys BS for 100 Million from B. B has now 100 Million. A blows up ship and receives 30 Million Insurance. Overall money from A and B now 130 Million.
But lets stop it here and not invent another Inflation Thread. :) --
Evemail me, if my name is used as guarantor! |
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Pang Grohl
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.12 18:47:00 -
[11]
Territorial war may be good for industry and commerce, but what the Privateers are doing isn't territorial war. Causing instability and uncertainty, like the Privateers are doing, is generally bad for industry and commerce.
Except in the cases where ISK is the only thing you can exchange for a good or service, the amount of ISK in game is irrelevant.
What matters is whether the Privateers have triggered an upswing in the production of goods, or balanced out the over production of goods.
Si non adjuvas, noces (If you're not helping, you're hurting) |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.04.12 23:39:00 -
[12]
well.. traders live off consumers, but there's just more mission runners dying per hour than any prvtr involvement could come close to. sure, it's something but most of it is t1 anyway...
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Lithalnas
Amarr Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2007.04.13 06:15:00 -
[13]
The sheer cost in isk of keeping privateers going was quoted as being "the isk sink that POSs never was" ------------- Hadean Drive Yards The EvE inflation, 80 Macro miners, 1.5b isk/day |
Klasanov
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Posted - 2007.04.13 06:43:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Klasanov on 13/04/2007 06:42:37
Originally by: Ki Shodan
Originally by: Shadarle Well you never get all your money back in ISK from insurance. Even if you get the 100% insurance you've lost the cost of the insurance because you've already payed the full ship price when you bought the ship... then you pay the insurance price then you get back what you initially payed for the ship (or fairly close to it anyhow if you didn't overpay).
That is only true for your personal wallet, not for the overall "creation" of ISK, which is meant in this case.
Example: A has 100 Million. A buys BS for 100 Million from B. B has now 100 Million. A blows up ship and receives 30 Million Insurance. Overall money from A and B now 130 Million.
But lets stop it here and not invent another Inflation Thread. :)
Um.
Isn't 130 > 100?
Edit: Erm, sorry. I misread.
Yeah. No. you're saying it does create wealth.
However, I think a missing factor here is where the minerals come from. Someone has to get them, still. So the insurance payout doesn't cause too much inflation really (and really, the price ceilings kind of stop inflation anyway) |
Lilan Kahn
Amarr The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.04.13 07:09:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Klasanov Edited by: Klasanov on 13/04/2007 06:42:37
Originally by: Ki Shodan
Originally by: Shadarle Well you never get all your money back in ISK from insurance. Even if you get the 100% insurance you've lost the cost of the insurance because you've already payed the full ship price when you bought the ship... then you pay the insurance price then you get back what you initially payed for the ship (or fairly close to it anyhow if you didn't overpay).
That is only true for your personal wallet, not for the overall "creation" of ISK, which is meant in this case.
Example: A has 100 Million. A buys BS for 100 Million from B. B has now 100 Million. A blows up ship and receives 30 Million Insurance. Overall money from A and B now 130 Million.
But lets stop it here and not invent another Inflation Thread. :)
Um.
Isn't 130 > 100?
Edit: Erm, sorry. I misread.
Yeah. No. you're saying it does create wealth.
However, I think a missing factor here is where the minerals come from. Someone has to get them, still. So the insurance payout doesn't cause too much inflation really (and really, the price ceilings kind of stop inflation anyway)
minerals = assets
ship = assets
insurnce = isk
any thing else you whant to know abut economics?
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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Klasanov
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Posted - 2007.04.13 07:19:00 -
[16]
What?
I'm just saying that because insurance payouts make ISK, doesn't mean other inputs aren't needed when you start to think about the problem in detail.
I know basic economics.
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Professor Bunsen
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.04.13 09:03:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lilan Kahn
insurnce = isk
any thing else you whant to know abut economics?
insurnce = insurance
whant = want
abut = about
any thing = anything
Anything else you want to know about spelling? or did you just trip over your fingers in your haste to appear smart? Optech Scientific Data Feed |
Lilan Kahn
Amarr The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.04.13 10:27:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Professor Bunsen
Originally by: Lilan Kahn
insurnce = isk
any thing else you whant to know abut economics?
insurnce = insurance
whant = want
abut = about
any thing = anything
Anything else you want to know about spelling? or did you just trip over your fingers in your haste to appear smart?
omg you addet exactly 0 to this thread.
if you dont know how eve economics work dont try and talk as if you know ****.
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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Klasanov
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Posted - 2007.04.13 10:31:00 -
[19]
Hoq have you added to this thread, Lilan? |
Lilan Kahn
Amarr The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.04.13 10:57:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Klasanov Hoq have you added to this thread, Lilan?
i give up your too stupid to figure out why how and where inflation comes from
you sir are a lost cuase now run along
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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Tirg
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.04.13 13:47:00 -
[21]
*cleaned*. If you have any questions, please email us at [email protected].
forum rules
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Ezoran DuBlaidd
Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2007.04.13 14:01:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Sales Merchant Not only are they removing billions of isk a week into the 'isk sink' in war decs costs but they are also helping traders stay in business by creating more demand for ships and mods empire-wide.
Also, regions where people rarely would go to buy things now have growing markets as people try to avoid The Forge as Privateers are very active there.
So hate them or love them, they are contributing far more to eve in terms of boosting pvp and econmony than most people would realise.
don't they declare on a lot of carebear corps/alliances? |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2007.04.13 14:52:00 -
[23]
Insurance does not cause inflation.. inflationary items create isk or wealth. Even plat insurance will never pay out an amount over the total amount of base min costs from NPC goods. So hence the sink portion.
Like I said there was a great thread about this very topic not too far back.. maybe it's time to dredge it back up again. |
Votee
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Posted - 2007.04.13 15:12:00 -
[24]
Insurance does cause inflation, because it injects a lot of ISK into EVE. Of course you paid for that ship with ISK - almost always more ISK than the insurance payout -, but the price you paid for the ship didnt went out of EVE, just changed hand. But the insurance payout is just created out of the air, so cause inflation, because there is no goods to back it.
regards, Votee
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Lilan Kahn
Amarr The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.04.13 15:52:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Votee Insurance does cause inflation, because it injects a lot of ISK into EVE. Of course you paid for that ship with ISK - almost always more ISK than the insurance payout -, but the price you paid for the ship didnt went out of EVE, just changed hand. But the insurance payout is just created out of the air, so cause inflation, because there is no goods to back it.
regards, Votee
Ding ding we have a winner
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.04.13 15:55:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Lilan Kahn Ding ding we have a winner
Indeed. It surprises me that people still argue about this stuff.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Pang Grohl
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.13 21:11:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Votee Insurance does cause inflation, because it injects a lot of ISK into EVE. Of course you paid for that ship with ISK - almost always more ISK than the insurance payout -, but the price you paid for the ship didnt went out of EVE, just changed hand. But the insurance payout is just created out of the air, so cause inflation, because there is no goods to back it.
regards, Votee
I think that the view that insurance, NPC bounties, and mission rewards cause inflation is a willful interpretation if how ISK flows between NPCs and PCs. First, there's an assumption that the NPCs didn't have any ISK when the universe was started. Second, there's an assumption that the ISK given as rewards is magically brought into existence to serve our needs. Third, is a belief that ISK is anything more than a tic in a ledger representing your work effort.
To counter this we have to make some different assumptions. 1) There is finite pool of ISK in EVE. 2) The isk is simply moving between PCs and NPCs. 3) ISK is a representation of the work effort in hauling NPC goods, ratting, and mission running, and the value of anything can be related to these activities.
With that in mind the movements of ISK from NPCs to PCs are payment for services rendered. Likewise movements in the other direction are taxes or payments for services rendered. Suddenly insurance pay outs aren't causing inflation. You may be getting ISK that someone else put in to the system, but you're not getting new ISK.
Hopefully this confuses things enough that people will stop worrying about "inflation" in EVE.
Si non adjuvas, noces (If you're not helping, you're hurting) |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.04.13 23:27:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Pang Grohl Hopefully this confuses things enough that people will stop worrying about "inflation" in EVE.
You can't philosophise your way out of it, the second set of assumptions you make would require actual changes to the game. There is not a finite set of isk in eve (see devblogs and dev posts on inflation) and isk from npc-sources IS automagically created.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Klasanov
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Posted - 2007.04.14 00:08:00 -
[29]
The devs have admitted that the game uses a faucet/sink system.
So the NPCs are printing isk, basically.
What prevents inflation is the mineral price ceilings and floors. Battleship prices have stayed stable for quite awhile, IIRC.
And then there's the whole T2 ship that insurance really didn't cover. Those were inflated for much different reasons (but now that they're no longer monopolized, the prices are falling i hear).
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Pang Grohl
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.14 00:25:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Pang Grohl Hopefully this confuses things enough that people will stop worrying about "inflation" in EVE.
You can't philosophise your way out of it, the second set of assumptions you make would require actual changes to the game. There is not a finite set of isk in eve (see devblogs and dev posts on inflation) and isk from npc-sources IS automagically created.
Right, but the same devs have stated that inflation is not an issue. The NPC effect is thus: NPCs add isk to the game and remove isk from the game. It doesn't matter if it's automagical or not. What matters is overall player buying power. Goods available from NPCs haven't shifted in price in the year plus that I've been playing, so buying power hasn't decreased on the low-end. With all the discussion about T2 prices falling, it's safe to say that buying power at the high-end is increasing. As long as buying power is increasing the net gain of ISK in game can be said to accurately represent player buying power. As long as the Privateers don't have a negative impact on player buying power (most likely through massive hoarding), they'll be stimulating economic activity.
Si non adjuvas, noces (If you're not helping, you're hurting) |
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