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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2007.04.11 00:11:00 -
[1]
I'm actually after some feedback to on what ships to avoid etc too please...
Highs: 5 Heavy Neutron IIs w/ Void + 1 Salvager I Meds: 10 MN Microwarpdrive II, Warp Disruptor II, Fleeting Web Lows: Med Rep II, True Sansha RCU, Explosive Hardener II, Energized Adaptive Nano II, 2x Mag Stab II Rigs: -15% Cap Recharge Time, + 30% Explosive Resist Drones: 5 Hammerhead IIs
I'm currently using this to rat vs Sanshas primarily for fast ISK making, but want the ability to handle itself in a PVP fight (which mostly seems to be vs Minmatar ships).
I think its about 4 *'s for now...My main concerns is the lack of range, armour buffer and cap vulnerability. Heh...wait make that 2 *'s !!
Do I need NOS? More speed? 400mm Armour plates? If so..why? - Feedback desired (even the brutal kind). Thanks.
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint! Please read my ideas |
zayanka
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Posted - 2007.04.11 00:20:00 -
[2]
problem with deimos, is when u get there, u cant runaway, if things go wrong
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Ghostshadow
Templars of Space CORE.
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Posted - 2007.04.11 00:40:00 -
[3]
Originally by: zayanka problem with deimos, is when u get there, u cant runaway, if things go wrong
Isn't it, that way, for 90% of, every other ship, save a few, like intys, nanoships, vaga/stabber, dictors?
____________________________________________ A * B = C A = Skill Points B = GPA C = a Constant. Guess what happens to B as A increases.
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Caldari Online
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Posted - 2007.04.11 00:43:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Caldari Online on 11/04/2007 00:40:22
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 11/04/2007 00:13:30
I'm just actually after some feedback to on what ships to avoid, improvements for purpos etc please...
Highs: 5 Heavy Neutron IIs w/ Void + 1 Salvager I Meds: 10 MN Microwarpdrive II, Warp Disruptor II, Fleeting Web Lows: Med Rep II, True Sansha RCU, Explosive Hardener II, Energized Adaptive Nano II, 2x Mag Stab II Rigs: -15% Cap Recharge Time, + 30% Explosive Resist Drones: 5 Hammerhead IIs (relevant) Implants: +5% M Hybrid Damage
I'm currently using this to rat vs Sanshas primarily for fast ISK making, but want the ability to handle itself in a PVP fight (which mostly seems to be vs Minmatar ships). I'd generally join a gang for PVP and run from any equal or greater in size pirate (or if I'm low on cap or hp etc).
I think its about 4 *'s for purpose right now...My main concerns is the lack of range, low armour buffer and cap vulnerability. Heh...wait make that 2 *'s !!
Do I need NOS? More speed? 400mm Armour plates? If so..why? - Feedback desired (even the brutal kind). Thanks.
any large close range turret ship that webs you will kill you any other hack will kill you any command ship will kill you most tier 1 battlecrusiers will kill you all teir 2 battlecrusiers will kill you
a good raven pilot will kill you a good scorp pilot will kill you
a good rupture pilot will kill you a good thorax pilot will kill you
you need more HP. a zealot with a 1600mm plate is good, an ishtar with a 1600mm plate is good, a vaga with an extender is good, a cerb with an extender is good...... see the pattern?
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2007.04.11 00:53:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 11/04/2007 00:50:39
Originally by: Caldari Online Edited by: Caldari Online on 11/04/2007 00:40:22
any large close range turret ship that webs you will kill you any other hack will kill you any command ship will kill you most tier 1 battlecrusiers will kill you all teir 2 battlecrusiers will kill you
a good raven pilot will kill you a good scorp pilot will kill you
a good rupture pilot will kill you a good thorax pilot will kill you
you need more HP. a zealot with a 1600mm plate is good, an ishtar with a 1600mm plate is good, a vaga with an extender is good, a cerb with an extender is good...... see the pattern?
Brutally sweet analysis. Many thanks!
Pretty much what I suspected...Unless I gang with a group larger than our targets and avoid being primary by engaging late....I'm dead. 1v1 vs any novice....I'm dead. Use this ship for ratting only then...Or refit with electrons IIs, more hardeners and 1600mm plate then for PVP? I bow to the power of the tank.
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint! Please read my ideas |
Caldari Online
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Posted - 2007.04.11 00:57:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Caldari Online on 11/04/2007 00:56:49
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss
Sweet and Brutal analysis. Many thanks!
Pretty much what I suspected...Unless I gang with a group larger than our targets and avoid being primary by engaging late....I'm dead. 1v1 vs any novice....I'm dead. Use this ship for ratting only then...Or refit with electrons IIs, more hardeners and 1600mm plate then for PVP? I bow to the power of the tank.
the problem isnt soo much tank ect. it is webbers are pretty overpowered.
i dont see why a frig webbing a BS stops the BS by 90% or the inverse a BS webbing a frig stops the frig by 90%!
makes my life easy, my blasterthron can hit cepters if i web them.
if they changed it so BS can only web a crusier for 50% max, then a deimos with no plate might be viable
tbh, jump into a domi. it will serve you much better in pvp
or if ur in a real big gang, you can also try a sneaky tactic of using a full gank thorax. they hopefully dont target you for a while. in which time you will be spitting out 600DPS
also dont count on large groups for protection. when ever im in a small gang or medium gang. if i spot a deimos i either throw a few heavy nosf on him (shutting his guns down) or just switch fire to him, knowing he will go down fast as it is unlikely he will be plated
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king jks
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.11 01:08:00 -
[7]
Protip: don't try to tank a deimos, you can't. Your setup is fine, just travel in mid to large sized gangs and hope you don't get primaried
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Caldari Online
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Posted - 2007.04.11 01:18:00 -
[8]
Originally by: king jks Protip: don't try to tank a deimos, you can't. Your setup is fine, just travel in mid to large sized gangs and hope you don't get primaried
a deimos is easy to tank
2 heavy nosf and you tank it good
or just 15seconds of fire
either way, deimos is ****
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king jks
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.11 01:22:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Caldari Online
Originally by: king jks Protip: don't try to tank a deimos, you can't. Your setup is fine, just travel in mid to large sized gangs and hope you don't get primaried
a deimos is easy to tank
2 heavy nosf and you tank it good
or just 15seconds of fire
either way, deimos is ****
Its not a solo ship I'll give you that, but its extremely effective at putting out massive amounts of pain.
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Caldari Online
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Posted - 2007.04.11 01:25:00 -
[10]
Originally by: king jks
Originally by: Caldari Online
Originally by: king jks Protip: don't try to tank a deimos, you can't. Your setup is fine, just travel in mid to large sized gangs and hope you don't get primaried
a deimos is easy to tank
2 heavy nosf and you tank it good
or just 15seconds of fire
either way, deimos is ****
Its not a solo ship I'll give you that, but its extremely effective at putting out massive amounts of pain.
why use it over a megathron if u want dps?
and dont say becuase a deimos is cool, or ill petition ccp to add an ignor button on fourms and then put u on ignor
in short, there is nothing the deimos can do better than any other galante ship. let alone any other race ship
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king jks
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.11 01:40:00 -
[11]
Deimos is faster/more mobile, hence making it more suited to fast moving roaming gangs than a clunky blasterthron. Here's a tanking/ganking setup just for you:
5x ion II
10mn MWD II disruptor II fleeting web
MAR II 800mm rolled tungsten explosive hardener II EANM II damage control II mag stab II
grid rig
close to 7000 armor HP. (and the camo is sexy )
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Ronin Reborn
Dark-Rising Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.04.11 02:42:00 -
[12]
Bah, forums ate my post...
Drop the MAR+RCU for 2 sar II, cycles quicker and you can save cap by just using one if you need to.
Drones I use either Valk IIs for varied dmg types or ec-600 for a bit of ewar. Hammerhead IIs arent ever really bad though.
The whole point of the Deimos is dmg dealer in a roving gang, really shines when paired with a recon like Lachesis/Arazu or Rook/Falcon. The mega would slow down the gang far too much and is very likely to get caught or camped in, the Deimos would have less trouble.
That said, yeah Deimos might be one of the worst HACs but with a competent pilot it should never be beaten by a rupture or thorax.
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Ishtar1
Puppets on Steroids
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Posted - 2007.04.11 02:58:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Ishtar1 on 11/04/2007 02:55:02
Originally by: king jks Protip: don't try to tank a deimos, you can't. Your setup is fine, just travel in mid to large sized gangs and hope you don't get primaried
Personaly i prefer a passive armour setup like 800plate resists and with a small rep for after (this is on my rax assuming demios has same adv/dis)
As with blaster ships imo your either gona out do there DPS or your gona go down fast so that armour with those resist and just enough DPS gets them down fast enough and lets you live long enough
although there are so many counters as we know with webs NOS etc
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king jks
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.11 03:25:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ishtar1 Edited by: Ishtar1 on 11/04/2007 02:55:02
Originally by: king jks Protip: don't try to tank a deimos, you can't. Your setup is fine, just travel in mid to large sized gangs and hope you don't get primaried
Personaly i prefer a passive armour setup like 800plate resists and with a small rep for after (this is on my rax assuming demios has same adv/dis)
As with blaster ships imo your either gona out do there DPS or your gona go down fast so that armour with those resist and just enough DPS gets them down fast enough and lets you live long enough
although there are so many counters as we know with webs NOS etc
Also very viable, just don't expect to tank 10 ships at once ;)
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Ishtar1
Puppets on Steroids
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Posted - 2007.04.11 03:28:00 -
[15]
aye under heavy fire dont expect to come out alive but when you do it makes it all the more sweet
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Caldari Online
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Posted - 2007.04.11 03:39:00 -
[16]
Originally by: king jks Deimos is faster/more mobile, hence making it more suited to fast moving roaming gangs than a clunky blasterthron. Here's a tanking/ganking setup just for you:
yeh sure
Originally by: king jks
5x ion II
10mn MWD II disruptor II fleeting web
MAR II 800mm rolled tungsten explosive hardener II EANM II damage control II mag stab II
grid rig
close to 7000 armor HP. (and the camo is sexy )
that setup gives you less than 5200HP so u have gone wrong somewhere.
deimos is useless, i have not lost a single BS to a deimos. yet have killed many infact i have 3 deimos kills using a thorax
nosf is common. 2 nosf and your screwed cant tank for ****
vaga can fight at 30km easy, zealot too. deimos 5km
there is no use for a deimos. i would still not use a deimos for pvp if they where 50mil isk
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Ronin Reborn
Dark-Rising Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.04.11 05:26:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Ronin Reborn on 11/04/2007 05:26:19 I can fight with my deimos at 16km, skills arent even maxed yet.
And judging a ship without flying it is a very close-minded way of thinking.
Just noticed you're a 3 day old noob corp alt, figures. Not going to waste my time talking to someone who cant post with thier main.
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Phoenicia
Eidolon Exploration and Exploitation
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Posted - 2007.04.11 06:05:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ronin Reborn Just noticed you're a 3 day old noob corp alt, figures. Not going to waste my time talking to someone who cant post with thier main.
Since when is that a valid point? This isn't COAD ya know.
And more on topic, to reach out to that point with a Deimos you'd have to be using Neutrons II's with Null ammo, or worse, Iron. Sure it "can" reach out to that range, hell, I tried a dual 150mm railgun II-deimos which reached out further than that but was crap nonetheless. Even a Beagle could outperform that. Any pure combat ship that has to "hope it doesn't become primary" is inherently flawed and needs to get a (slight) boost. Even the stealth bombers at least get to cloak...
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Ronin Reborn
Dark-Rising Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.04.11 06:35:00 -
[19]
Nuetrons with null, yes. I find that the increased range and decrease use of cap makes it the better ammo for this ship. Not that I don't carry Void
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Khorian
Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.04.11 09:45:00 -
[20]
Deimos is a 1 trick pony. It is a cruiser sized DPS monster and has its purpose in gangs and fleets. But be prepared to lose it, it is also a throw away ship.
5x neutrons
MWD Scram Web
MAR II DCU II 3x Mag Stab II Exp Hardner II
Rigs: ACR, CCC
Since this thing has no tank, your best bet is to be fast. So put some Speed implants, LG Snakes etc in your head. Also use warfare modules for speed. Move in, blast ship, move out, repeat.
The deimos doesn't suck, it just isnt a solopwn mobile. If you like to blow stuff up and be faster and more agile than in an Astarte or Mega, use a deimos.
--------------------- This is the signature |
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Khorian
Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.04.11 09:53:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Phoenicia
Any pure combat ship that has to "hope it doesn't become primary" is inherently flawed and needs to get a (slight) boost. Even the stealth bombers at least get to cloak...
Any ship has to hope it doesn't become primary to a hostile fleet. So that point is irrelevant. That is why a Deimos for fleets should not be heavily tanked, but be fitted for maximum DPS. Because thats what it was designed for. If you become primary you are most likely dead, no matter how good your tank is. The question then is, how much damage you inflicted before you got toasted.
I won't say no to a Deimos Boost tho :)
--------------------- This is the signature |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2007.04.11 11:03:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Khorian
Originally by: Phoenicia
Any pure combat ship that has to "hope it doesn't become primary" is inherently flawed and needs to get a (slight) boost. Even the stealth bombers at least get to cloak...
Any ship has to hope it doesn't become primary to a hostile fleet. So that point is irrelevant. That is why a Deimos for fleets should not be heavily tanked, but be fitted for maximum DPS. Because thats what it was designed for. If you become primary you are most likely dead, no matter how good your tank is. The question then is, how much damage you inflicted before you got toasted.
I won't say no to a Deimos Boost tho :)
Indeed...a little more base armour hp would be sweet. Maybe I should swap out the cap rig for a trimark hp boost?
I must admit I'm very glad to read a BoB chap saying that you dont 'need' a fat tank on this ship, as it is designed to do damage. You guys know what you're talking about for PVP and I'm back to thinking my setup is optimal for what I use it for...
I join anti-pirate gangs in CVA space and go mopping up small gangs of 3-7 pirate (minmatar) ships with a similar number. Our anti-pirate gangs tend to be a Raven/Drake tank with repping drones, myrmidon, Slepnir, Ewar cruiser and a couple of tackling frigs/intys. So there are quite a few things to be primaried before a HAC I guess. With that gang we wiped out a similar sized gang of a battlecruiser, a Vagabond, Celestis, Malediction and a command ship for no loss the other day by sending the tanking Raven in first. I was in a Celestis that time damping/ECM droning the enemy Vaga and Celestis, but now I've got the money to replace it I'll be throwing my Deimos into the mix too probably. I expect to lose it at some point, I just hope I get some good fights out of it like that one before it goes down....not to mention some nice pirate loot. :)
Though sadly most of the pirates we see all seem to have switched from nanoships to cloaking ships now. Annoying especially when they have alt scouts too but to be expected I guess thanks to the need for minimizing the risk etc...
Thanks for all the replies and discussion. The Deimos isn't as good as a Blasterthron, probably not as good as a Vaga or other HACs, but I think I'm going to use it anyway for what it was designed for..as its fun, agile and packs a good punch. I've always got my Astarte to go get my revenge with anyway! :)
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint! Please read my ideas |
n0thing
Northern Intelligence Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.04.11 11:06:00 -
[23]
hm, only question, how exactly a good rupture/thorax pilot would kill T2 version of itself having approx 50% more damage and approx 30% more hp?
---
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Caldari Online
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Posted - 2007.04.11 11:15:00 -
[24]
Originally by: n0thing hm, only question, how exactly a good rupture/thorax pilot would kill T2 version of itself having approx 50% more damage and approx 30% more hp?
t2 version only has 25% more damage and that is if they have hac lvl 5. it is more likely they only have hac lvl 4 and thus only 20% more damage
a setup i used to use on a thorax, and it killed many deimos and a few muninn.
5x ion t2 [void] web. 20km. AB [or no AB but a tracking desruptor] 2dmg mod, 1600mm plate, dcu , energized adaptive t2
5x medium t2 exp drones +5% medium hybrid turret implant
it would kill a deimos most cases becuase it has a lot more armor which more than made up for its resistance. same with plated rupture vs deimos.
i used to go into empire plex and steal loot from hacks with that setup. took down 4 hacks with my thorax , lost it to 2 hack pirates, having killed one
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Phrixus Zephyr
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.04.11 11:26:00 -
[25]
Use 250s and sit aligned next to the z'lot. Deimos is always primary bar EWAR in small/med gang fights because its the most amount of damage thats the easyest to kill.
Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
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cytomatrix
Caldari Skiddies of Doom
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Posted - 2007.08.14 12:11:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Caldari Online
Originally by: n0thing hm, only question, how exactly a good rupture/thorax pilot would kill T2 version of itself having approx 50% more damage and approx 30% more hp?
t2 version only has 25% more damage and that is if they have hac lvl 5. it is more likely they only have hac lvl 4 and thus only 20% more damage
a setup i used to use on a thorax, and it killed many deimos and a few muninn.
5x ion t2 [void] web. 20km. AB [or no AB but a tracking desruptor] 2dmg mod, 1600mm plate, dcu , energized adaptive t2
5x medium t2 exp drones +5% medium hybrid turret implant
it would kill a deimos most cases becuase it has a lot more armor which more than made up for its resistance. same with plated rupture vs deimos.
i used to go into empire plex and steal loot from hacks with that setup. took down 4 hacks with my thorax , lost it to 2 hack pirates, having killed one
Care to show the killmails? ______________________________________________________________
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Azuse
The Brotherhood Of The Blade The Makhai
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Posted - 2007.08.14 12:31:00 -
[27]
Originally by: cytomatrix
Originally by: Caldari Online
Originally by: n0thing hm, only question, how exactly a good rupture/thorax pilot would kill T2 version of itself having approx 50% more damage and approx 30% more hp?
t2 version only has 25% more damage and that is if they have hac lvl 5. it is more likely they only have hac lvl 4 and thus only 20% more damage
a setup i used to use on a thorax, and it killed many deimos and a few muninn.
5x ion t2 [void] web. 20km. AB [or no AB but a tracking desruptor] 2dmg mod, 1600mm plate, dcu , energized adaptive t2
5x medium t2 exp drones +5% medium hybrid turret implant
it would kill a deimos most cases becuase it has a lot more armor which more than made up for its resistance. same with plated rupture vs deimos.
i used to go into empire plex and steal loot from hacks with that setup. took down 4 hacks with my thorax , lost it to 2 hack pirates, having killed one
Care to show the killmails?
Mail. Aka fix the Demios There is no substitute for pilot experience. |
Kunming
The Coalition Of Buccaneers Mercenary Services
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Posted - 2007.08.14 12:38:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 11/04/2007 00:13:30
I'm just actually after some feedback to on what ships to avoid, improvements for purpos etc please...
Highs: 5 Heavy Neutron IIs w/ Void + 1 Salvager I Meds: 10 MN Microwarpdrive II, Warp Disruptor II, Fleeting Web Lows: Med Rep II, True Sansha RCU, Explosive Hardener II, Energized Adaptive Nano II, 2x Mag Stab II Rigs: -15% Cap Recharge Time, + 30% Explosive Resist Drones: 5 Hammerhead IIs (relevant) Implants: +5% M Hybrid Damage
I'm currently using this to rat vs Sanshas primarily for fast ISK making, but want the ability to handle itself in a PVP fight (which mostly seems to be vs Minmatar ships). I'd generally join a gang for PVP and run from any equal or greater in size pirate (or if I'm low on cap or hp etc).
I think its about 4 *'s for purpose right now...My main concerns is the lack of range, low armour buffer and cap vulnerability. Heh...wait make that 2 *'s !!
Do I need NOS? More speed? 400mm Armour plates? If so..why? - Feedback desired (even the brutal kind). Thanks.
2x SAR II > Med Rep II + True Sansha RCU (less PG, less cap, less ISK, same rep amount)
Also fit EC or EV drones for PVP.
Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
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Skreed
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2007.08.14 13:07:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Caldari Online
Originally by: king jks Deimos is faster/more mobile, hence making it more suited to fast moving roaming gangs than a clunky blasterthron. Here's a tanking/ganking setup just for you:
yeh sure
Originally by: king jks
5x ion II
10mn MWD II disruptor II fleeting web
MAR II 800mm rolled tungsten explosive hardener II EANM II damage control II mag stab II
grid rig
close to 7000 armor HP. (and the camo is sexy )
that setup gives you less than 5200HP so u have gone wrong somewhere.
deimos is useless, i have not lost a single BS to a deimos. yet have killed many infact i have 3 deimos kills using a thorax
nosf is common. 2 nosf and your screwed cant tank for ****
vaga can fight at 30km easy, zealot too. deimos 5km
there is no use for a deimos. i would still not use a deimos for pvp if they where 50mil isk
I fly a deimos nearly all the time. It is not as great as other hacs i admit but it puts out more dmg then any of them. Just fit with a 800mm plate and Orbit at 4k. I can put out on struct around 800-900 dps pur sec it is very impressive. Just need to make sure your in a gang when going after BS as u are a dmg dealer. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
Ozzie Asrail
Infinitus Odium The Church.
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Posted - 2007.08.14 13:15:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Kunming
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 11/04/2007 00:13:30
I'm just actually after some feedback to on what ships to avoid, improvements for purpos etc please...
Highs: 5 Heavy Neutron IIs w/ Void + 1 Salvager I Meds: 10 MN Microwarpdrive II, Warp Disruptor II, Fleeting Web Lows: Med Rep II, True Sansha RCU, Explosive Hardener II, Energized Adaptive Nano II, 2x Mag Stab II Rigs: -15% Cap Recharge Time, + 30% Explosive Resist Drones: 5 Hammerhead IIs (relevant) Implants: +5% M Hybrid Damage
I'm currently using this to rat vs Sanshas primarily for fast ISK making, but want the ability to handle itself in a PVP fight (which mostly seems to be vs Minmatar ships). I'd generally join a gang for PVP and run from any equal or greater in size pirate (or if I'm low on cap or hp etc).
I think its about 4 *'s for purpose right now...My main concerns is the lack of range, low armour buffer and cap vulnerability. Heh...wait make that 2 *'s !!
Do I need NOS? More speed? 400mm Armour plates? If so..why? - Feedback desired (even the brutal kind). Thanks.
2x SAR II > Med Rep II + True Sansha RCU (less PG, less cap, less ISK, same rep amount)
Also fit EC or EV drones for PVP.
Or swap the explosive rig fora pg rig and the rcu for either a dcu or a 3rd magstab. better resists or more dmg with same slots. -----
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