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Obiruk Ayires
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Posted - 2007.04.03 01:39:00 -
[1]
I'm currently flying an Incursus and I'm ratting in a 0.4 system and making 'decent' money doing it, killing the cruisers and destroyers there without too much trouble. I've read that destroyers often have more trouble against crusiers than frigs do because of sig radius/ speed problems - Would it benefit me at all to move to destroyers from my Incursus, or should I just save up and get a Cruiser when I can afford it? |
Synapse Archae
Amarr Solarflare Heavy Industries Pure.
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Posted - 2007.04.03 01:57:00 -
[2]
I think you're on exactly the right track. Destroyers can mow through frigates at a very respectable pace, but the minute you meet a cruiser you will be in trouble.
I definitely recommend making the push for a cruiser instead on the following rationale: A cruiser will let you fight a new level of enemies, giving you more HP and damage output in a serious way. A destroyer on the other hand will only let you kill frigates a lot faster, while becoming a bigger target for bigger ships.
If youre killing a lot of frigates, try a cruiser with 4-5 light or medium drones such as a vexor. You will do much better against cruisers, and do just as well against frigates, than you would in a destroyer.
Also I find cruisers have a better survivability so they may well end up saving you money in the end. - - - These elite slaves are exceptionally well suited for physical labor. |
Tkar vonBiggendorf
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.03 02:11:00 -
[3]
If you're ratting and flying L1 missions, then a destroyer can be a nice step up. It still uses all the guns and skills that your frigates use -- for cruisers you have to learn medium-sized gun skills to make the most of it.
In 0.4, I'd be more concerned about player pirates than a cruiser rat.
It's certainly not that expensive to try out a destroyer and see how you like it, compared to the cost of stepping into a cruiser.
And when you do move up to cruisers, you can turn your old destroyers into salvage ships.
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Voodoo Mistross
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Posted - 2007.04.03 02:31:00 -
[4]
I bought my first and only destroyer weeks ago. Down on CPU and paperthin armor, never got one again, decided to trick my frigate with T2 modules and wait until I could fly something better. I now have an awesome BC, although I will never quit my frigate, I do love taking the BC for a run. Waiting for Portrait (Rank 2) - |
Obiruk Ayires
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Posted - 2007.04.03 02:40:00 -
[5]
Thanks for the advice - I was leaning towards just sticking with my frig. I have run into a couple of player pirates in Caracals and whatnot, but have managed so save my boat so far...Is there anywhere I can get decent bounty cruiser rats outside of lowsec? I'm getting about 50k per kill right now, plus loot. Are there cruiser rats in highsec? |
Mik Nostrebor
Minmatar ORKS
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Posted - 2007.04.03 03:19:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Obiruk ****es Thanks for the advice - I was leaning towards just sticking with my frig. I have run into a couple of player pirates in Caracals and whatnot, but have managed so save my boat so far...Is there anywhere I can get decent bounty cruiser rats outside of lowsec? I'm getting about 50k per kill right now, plus loot. Are there cruiser rats in highsec?
Unfortunately you won't find cruiser or larger sized rats in belts in high-sec space at all. However, if you get to run level 2 or level 3 missions in high-sec there are cruisers in them. Even the odd Battle Cruiser in level 3 missions.
Mik
AUSSIE AND KIWI EVE Fansite |
Obiruk Ayires
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Posted - 2007.04.03 04:05:00 -
[7]
Can I run level 2's and 3's in a frig?
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Benglada
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.03 04:32:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Obiruk ****es Can I run level 2's and 3's in a frig?
you can run 2s in a frig if your uber. level 3s no way. ---------------------------
Originally by: Arkanor
0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
Sig nerfz0r - maximum allowed siz0r is 24000 bytz0r. - Devil ([email protected]) Sig By Ortos |
Lunfal
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Posted - 2007.04.03 05:05:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Benglada
Originally by: Obiruk ****es Can I run level 2's and 3's in a frig?
you can run 2s in a frig if your uber. level 3s no way.
You can run lvl 2's in a frig without too much problem if you use the keep at range and snipe strategy. Lvl 3s can be done in an elite frig (assault frigate) very easily as well.
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Monde
Gallente TOG Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.03 05:35:00 -
[10]
A lot of my Corp friends love the Destroyers. Me I don't. But they were ratting in 0.1 space in their destroyers and loved it.
I did the jump to Cruiser, Battle Cruiser and Battle Ship but still love rthe Frigates and do not in anyway like Destroyers.
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William McCracken
Gallente The Graduates Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.04.03 05:37:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Obiruk ****es Can I run level 2's and 3's in a frig?
Some lvl2's can be done by a new pilot in a frig. Some can't. The Blockade is probably the toughest lvl 2, and I've had even a BC get pounded by it. That was admittedly my fault, but just shows you how bad it can be.
Level 3's I'd use a BC or a battlship for. William McC racken
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Thaddeus Brutor
Minmatar The Sobani
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Posted - 2007.04.03 06:27:00 -
[12]
My brother rats in 0.3 with a destroyer (Coercer). He fits 8 beams, a burner, and three heat sinks. While a cruiser can hit the destroyer better than a frig, it's not _nailing_ it repeatedly. I've seen him drop a 2 cruiser 2 frig spawn without difficulty.
Zzzzzzing. Frig down. Zzzzzzing. Frig down. The large DPS he kicks out from so far away in that coercer is pretty awesome.
Destroyers take 15-30 minutes to train depending on learning/implants. They make GREAT salvager ships later, and they are very cheap investments. I'd recommend anyone (especially a new player) get Destroyer I on the way to cruisers.
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Kumu Honua
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Posted - 2007.04.03 07:53:00 -
[13]
The thing about destroyers is....
Training level 1 in destroyers takes a short time. Negligible in the skillplan, and while it's roles are limited, they have their uses.
Early in your life as a newer player it's a great ship for level 1 missions like worlds collide. Later on, it is a great salvage/loot ship.
In operations it's great for taking out tacklers.
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Eastaquoy Kid
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Posted - 2007.04.03 10:51:00 -
[14]
I use my Catalyst as a salvager Tractor beams and salvagers. Good speed and cargo capacity. Use it to clean up after missions. Over 4 Million ISK from worlds collide last night and you cannot get through gates in a cruiser so I used the destroyer for second and third rooms.
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Calidor Droks
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.04.03 11:57:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Calidor Droks on 03/04/2007 11:56:55
Originally by: Eastaquoy Kid I use my Catalyst as a salvager Tractor beams and salvagers. Good speed and cargo capacity. Use it to clean up after missions. Over 4 Million ISK from worlds collide last night and you cannot get through gates in a cruiser so I used the destroyer for second and third rooms.
I strongly recomend train Destroyer to lvl 1, like the above post. They are the best salvage ship atm if you want to slavage a mission quickly.
My Cormorant setup: 4x Tractor and 4x Salvager in the high slots, AB and cap rechargers in the meds and an expander in the low. I can loot and Salvage a lvl 3 mission in no time, the loot and salvage can net you a lot more ISK then bounty and mission reward too sometimes.
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Nayels
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Posted - 2007.04.03 12:08:00 -
[16]
When I first moved from frig's to Destroyer I was rapt n the new found power of my guns & the increase in cap but I woke up quickly ( in my Clone ), I now have a Thrasher which has been decked out a mini - miner (get it mini miner, like the car ? )for when I feel like a bit of sedate mining 2x miner & 4 x Ac with an X-tra cargo. 'Bout all its good for.
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Mel'pomene
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.04.03 13:30:00 -
[17]
I'm still new so I'm still just doing level 1 missions. I love doing them in my Thrasher. I have 5 arties, 2 salvagers and a tractor beam in the high slots. I can easily clear out any level 1 mission and salvage it all in one go. I end up making far more ISK off the salvage than I do from the mission itself.
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Obiruk Ayires
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Posted - 2007.04.03 14:18:00 -
[18]
So after you guys finish a mission you actually jump over to the system your destroyer's at and go back and salvage with it? that's actualy cost/time effective?
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Amasera
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.04.03 14:23:00 -
[19]
For my 2 pennies, as someone who's specialized in small ships and flies an interdictor professionally:
The question really is not 'where do I want to go next' but 'where do I want to end up'?
For the price of the skill book and the half hour it will take to train destroyers to 1 it's worth the investment to have the ability to fly them if the need arises. They are the bane of frigates and with their ease of fitting and range bonus they can give 'ceptors no end of trouble, but without real specialization in small weapons their use as a low sec moneymaker can be limited. With T1 guns and equipment you can easilly rat down to .1 as long as you stay away from missile flingers. Though you'd prolly have better luck with begineresque skills in a T1 frig, with focused training a destroyer can make a mean ratting machine. With a full rack of T2 pulses and conflags I've had marked success ratting BS rats (up to 1.4 M) in Querious and Fountain. The thing to keep in mind is it has a sig radius closer to that of a cruiser, so if you lose transversal against larger rats or you let them web you, or get out to range they will chew you up. The other nice thing about destroyers is the sizeable cargo hold for scooping loot.
If your ultimate goal is to move into lumbering battleships, or Recons and HACs, you'll prolly want to pass right by destroyers. But if you're aiming for elite frigs, covert ops, or interdictors, then the destroyer can be a very valuable addition to your arsenal. -------------------
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Rhaegor Stormborn
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Posted - 2007.04.03 16:38:00 -
[20]
Skip to Cruisers then get Battlecruisers then get Battleships. At least that is what I am doing.
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Alekonner
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Posted - 2007.04.04 00:41:00 -
[21]
I am curious too, to know the answer to Obiruk's last question.
Is it cost/time effective, after finishing a mission to jump back to that location with a salvager, and salvage the wrecks?
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Vel Sliktin
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Posted - 2007.04.04 01:26:00 -
[22]
It only takes an hour to train to fly a destroyer. They use all the same fittings frigates do so it's not a waste of time. Just train to 1 or 2 destroyer skill and you have another ship class you can fly while you wait for decent cruiser skills, surplus money so you can cover cruiser losses, and level 2 missions.
I don't understand why someone would recommend skipping them, it's not like it takes days to train. They are arguably the best salvage ships, so even if you'd rather fly frigs and not even take a look at them for missions and ratting there is still a good reason to have a skill point or two in destroyers in my opinion.
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Baka Lakadaka
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Posted - 2007.04.04 02:31:00 -
[23]
I find having a destroyer for salvaging very effective for mission salvage.
I clear a mission and then bring back the salvager. When I'm ratting, I just fit a salvager and a tractor on the cruiser and hope that more rats show up while I'm salvaging. This also prevents thieves from nicking my wrecks. No point in exposing an unarmed destroyer to rats, but I guess you could have an armed salvager with all those high slots.
My catalyst currently has: 5 Salvager + 3 Tractor + Afterburner + Cargo Expander + small repper. ( I believe there's a cap battery & co-processor in there as well - but I'm at work so I can't check). I also have a drone in the bay for a last ditch defense if required, but I think it's getting rather dusty.
This allows me to clear a 3 stage, level 2 mission of all wrecks in about 20 minutes (around 30 wrecks). This also means that when I take my cruiser back to base I can claim my mission time bonus, then bring out the salvage boat to clean up on the salvage items. I don't want to spend a lot of time cleaning up wrecks whle on the mission, only to find I've missed out on the mission time bonus (bonuses are just free ISK really). I find that level 2 missions are generally only one jump away anyway. Cheers Baka ______________________ Have a Skill in training every second of every day and never let your bank balance sink below your skill points. |
Darth Ninjabadger
Caldari m3 Corp
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Posted - 2007.04.04 11:19:00 -
[24]
I would say that salvage is a great reason to have a destroyer. Both of my destroyers are now fitted for salvage and it nets way more than the missions I salvage from. In terms of time efficiency it's variable as the salvage gathered can be hit and miss. The trick is to bookmark the deadspace location and complete the mission before going back. That lets you use a MWD to scoot around the area and salvage really quickly.
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Tarock Sharn
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Posted - 2007.04.04 11:49:00 -
[25]
Destroyers make Level missions a walk in the park.
Not need to warp in and out like you somtimes need to in a frigates. And like the guys are saying you have a lot of skills needed already :)
As for Cruisers, I was thinking of missing them out as a class, but last night bought a Moa for 7m and tbh it really is on heck of a ship. But you need momre skills for the Cruiser for instance so i would suggest you spend a few days in Destroyer mincing level 1 missions, skilling up for your cruiser.
For the record the MOA can mount 6 medium weapons and mount enought internal upgrades to have around 5000 sheilds.
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Gideon Belisair
Gallente Psi-Chao Corporation
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Posted - 2007.10.04 04:47:00 -
[26]
Alright, I've only been playing the game for about three weeks now (am at about 1.2 million SP) and I know this thread is pretty old, but still I wanted to offer my two cents.
I'm military career, soldier spec, so I started with a whole mess of gunnery skills. (Gunnery and small hybrid turret at lvl V for instance) I've been running a lot of lvl 1 missions, and ratting at 0.5 and some 0.4. And frankly, I really, really can't see how getting a destroyer would be a bad idea, at least for soldier pilots. As was already said, you already have the skills that a destroyer benefits from, the Destroyer skill itself takes a few heartbeats to train, and the ships are cheap. I've been flying a Catalyst for most of the time now, and it simply tears apart the rats a LOT faster and easier than a Tristan or Incursus would, and can salvage the wrecks to boot. This results in a massive boost in income. Sure, it's easier to hit than a frig, but the range bonus helps a lot with that since you can pick the rats off from a lot further away, and it's a lot more durable too.
Heck, even my fitting is probably far from what a seasoned player would consider optimal: 4 75mm rails, 2 125 rails (I use thorium in the 75s and uranium/plutonium in the 125s to even out the optimal ranges a bit), salvager, tractor beam. Afterburner, medium shield extender (double shield hp, woot). Overdrive injector II, Inertial stabilizer II, magnetic vortex stabilizer I. So yeah, dunno if that's good or sensible or whatever, but it sure as hell is fun to use. Go to belt/mission, whack the rats, loot and salvage the wrecks, cash in the reward and sell the spoils. In a nutshell: Faster rat killing + salvage = helluva lot more money while training the skills needed for effective cruiser operation.
Still, that's just my experience. I'm not saying all the above is a universal truth, but it works damn well for me, and should by my reasoning work for any other new soldier pilot. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
P.S: Also, while this setup works great for the current situation, I'm open for any suggestions and advice for where to go from here. :P
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Cirro Morceratu
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Posted - 2007.10.04 10:28:00 -
[27]
Could use some clarification on the salvaging method people use. Been playing just a few days and I'm currently using a destroyer for level 1 missions, fitted with 2 salvagers and guns in the other slots.
A destroyer is a stronger ship than the missions are intended for anyway, so I can spare the slots for salvagers, but would it be worth using 2 separate ships for the missions: 1 to kill everything and 1 to salvage it all? Would that be worth jumping to base for or am I quicker off the way I'm doing it now?
And how can you cash in your mission and still go to salvage afterwards, won't the option to jump to the mission location disappear once you cashed in?
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Dinslan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.10.04 11:51:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Cirro Morceratu Could use some clarification on the salvaging method people use. Been playing just a few days and I'm currently using a destroyer for level 1 missions, fitted with 2 salvagers and guns in the other slots.
A destroyer is a stronger ship than the missions are intended for anyway, so I can spare the slots for salvagers, but would it be worth using 2 separate ships for the missions: 1 to kill everything and 1 to salvage it all? Would that be worth jumping to base for or am I quicker off the way I'm doing it now?
And how can you cash in your mission and still go to salvage afterwards, won't the option to jump to the mission location disappear once you cashed in?
When I started salvaging I had 1 or 2 salvagers on my destroyer. Level 1 missions are small and destoyers are fast so it is probably quicker to salvage as you go in one. For level 2 and higher I would suggest a separate ship. This becomes more worthwhile as you start flying larger/slower ships. Generally most people use a Destroyer with 4 salvagers and 4 tractor beams for salvaging. Normally you'd fit a Microwarpdrive (MWD) and cap modules as well, perhaps a cargo expander too. For salvaging level 4 missions I use a Hurricane Battlecruiser, but I think that is rare.
Before you leave each pocket of your mission, click on one of the wrecks and choose the bookmark option. You now have a record of the position of that wreck. When you cash the mission in, all the mission scenery and enemies disappear but the wrecks and cargo containers stay around for between 1 and 3 hours. You can then warp to the bookmarks when you are done. Once you have done your looting/salvaging you can then delete the bookmark using the people & places window. The other advantage of using this method is that you can use a MWD to collect the salvage, active missions often are in deadspace so MWDs won't work.
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Cirro Morceratu
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Posted - 2007.10.04 13:30:00 -
[29]
Thanks :) Very useful info for my future missions.
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Chrokeston
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Posted - 2007.10.04 13:34:00 -
[30]
I used a destroyer for level 1 missions. It was quick to skill, cheap and swept through frigates really really fast. I used 7 280mm artillery guns (the thrasher has only 7 gun hardpoints) and an AB to keep the enemy on distance, if anything came nearer than 10-15km. The higher number of guns and the longer range easily compensate the lower rate of fire.
You start to get trouble in your destroyer, when the enemy comes with cruisers and their heavy missiles, which hit you on 40km and do significant damage to your destroyer.
If you do missions fast, do several missions and then get the salvaging ship and work through them. It's faster then salvaging after every mission, at least with level 1 and 2 missions.
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