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ANTONE1357
Enigmous Prime CENTCOM
0
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Posted - 2016.11.14 06:52:26 -
[1] - Quote
I have been playing since 2008, and have seen soo many changes, some good some bad. I am a big industry nut and I like to mine and build ships for the Alliance im in. I am a big fan of off grid boosting in system. However I would like to see a better yield for being on grid, it only makes since it that it works this way. My understanding is CCP has made the decision to completely get rid of off grid boosting. Which i believe there should always be an option to do both. I have read feed back on both positives and negatives of this change, but really the positives are mainly for those PVP minded people that love to harass the "Carebears of EVE", and not really the Industry players at heart. I have three accounts that I pay for, because i enjoy the game how it is and I truly believe its a player based sandbox. But is CCP listening to the players in Industry, and also addressing their concerns. I'm also now aware of the changes to the Rorq not being able to dock at an Austrahus, even though it is smaller then a freighter. I created this thread to address my concern and the perception these changes bring. Would like to hear what other Industry players think and their opinion. |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
542
|
Posted - 2016.11.14 07:12:36 -
[2] - Quote
Maybe this is for Null bears, as a high sec Indy myself these changes don't really effect me in a way that I'm concerned about, I do see your point about them making it more risky for people fielding Rorquals, however CCP has also given another option, the Porpoise, less risky to lose 50+ mil then a few billion but still having nice boosts.
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Do Little
Virgin Plc Evictus.
526
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Posted - 2016.11.14 08:36:48 -
[3] - Quote
Boosts represent a "bonus" and should entail some risk. They should also require some gameplay - if you allow AFK ALTs to boost an entire system from behind a POS forcefield you might as well build the extra yield into the base amount for the barge.
You do not need to risk a high value ship - a Porpoise will be able to boost and mine as much as a barge with the expected cost of a battlecruiser - though it may take a week or so for the price to settle down after launch.
Where CCP plans will eventually hurt small industrialists is the Engineering Complexes - there is no direct replacement for a small POS which tilts the playing field in favor of larger organizations. It doesn't matter now since POS will remain in the game but small industrialists are either going to need to rent space from other players or move back to working in NPC stations - neither option is particularly attractive. |
Vigirr
33
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Posted - 2016.11.14 10:08:40 -
[4] - Quote
So you quite enjoyed the boosts industry has gotten over the years but the second CCP changes something that affects both combat as industry you go "why is CCP hating on industry, I'll quit if they don't change"? Why would anyone want to have a reasoned debate with someone who has that stance?
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2942
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Posted - 2016.11.14 10:26:39 -
[5] - Quote
ANTONE1357 wrote: My understanding is CCP has made the decision to completely get rid of off grid boosting. Which i believe there should always be an option to do both. I have read feed back on both positives and negatives of this change, but really the positives are mainly for those PVP minded people that love to harass the "Carebears of EVE", and not really the Industry players at heart. No, these changes are meant to be better for everyone.
Players, and the developers for that matter, have been asking for years to have boosts put on-grid. It makes no sense to have near-invulnerable (or in the case of mining boosts, actually invulnerable) boosting ships providing a game-play benefit with no trade-off or effort required. All that does is set an artificial bar to be competitive that makes it harder for new players to compete with existing players. Some of that is to be expected in an MMO where your progression matters, but in the case of boosts there is very little game play around it. They were just a mandatory thing you had to set up and then not really worry about again.
Game play reasons aside, I will remind you that Eve is a PvP game. The only reason people want to buy your ore (or the stuff you make from it) is because of the demand created by PvP. You are not entitled to opt-out of the shared virtual universe we all inhabit and only "do industry", and you (and your territory/stuff) are very much intended to be content for the other players. Boosts, especially invulnerable mining boosts have been broken for too long as they weren't providing any such content and this is a great change by CCP to make a more engaging sandbox game.
CCP hasn't left you in the lurch though. They have made these boosting ships extremely tough and given you a wide selection to choose from according to your ability to defend them and your risk tolerance. You have to make a decision now, and actually play the game, and choose the booster that is right for you. So instead of whining about having to play the game now, look at the choices on offer and select the one that will benefit you the most like you do for all the other factors that go into an industrial operation. That might mean you have to provide more for your defense, but that too is part of the game, and just look at that as the cost of doing business.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
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Swoop McFly
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
56
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Posted - 2016.11.14 12:18:52 -
[6] - Quote
You are getting the new Rorq - the most f**ing OP ship ever since the Svipul and yet you still complain that you need to put it on grid. CCP will never be able to shut up the carebears until they let them mine while docked in Jita. |
Captain Awkward
Republic University Minmatar Republic
129
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Posted - 2016.11.14 12:57:48 -
[7] - Quote
Currently you need to finance a char that does nothing but sitt in a posshield all day long provinding boost. With the new update, the boost ship can acutally mine with the fleet and do stuff.
The main reason why no one bothers to save miners in nullsec atm is that :
a) The miners are usually allready dead when the response fleet arrives. b) There is usually not enough ISK on the grid to make it worth saving.
The new Rorq changes both |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
1086
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Posted - 2016.11.14 22:51:37 -
[8] - Quote
Swoop McFly wrote:You are getting the new Rorq - the most f**ing OP ship ever since the Svipul and yet you still complain that you need to put it on grid. CCP will never be able to shut up the carebears until they let them mine while docked in Jita.
There will always be people complaining that the game isn't built like they want it, though I disagree it's always a carebear and never someone else.
We do ***** an awful lot though and probably more so than any other group, admittedly, and this is one such moment.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Mark Marconi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
81
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Posted - 2016.11.14 22:57:51 -
[9] - Quote
While some of the changes do make sense.
The basics are it is a kick in the guts for Industry players. Null bears fair better and worse as long as you are in a huge alliance.
Better in the bonuses worse in the lack of defenses and in the case of a rorq, a huge fat target.
POSs will get a huge work out till they are taken away.
Bonus is more on the PvP side with more for them to shoot and the possibility of huge conflicts starting from something simple like a tackled rorq.
So long story short, good for PvP players bad for Indys |
Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY Domestic Disturbance
366
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Posted - 2016.11.14 23:47:04 -
[10] - Quote
ANTONE1357 wrote:I have been playing since 2008, and have seen soo many changes, some good some bad. I am a big industry nut and I like to mine and build ships for the Alliance im in. I am a big fan of off grid boosting in system. However I would like to see a better yield for being on grid, it only makes since it that it works this way. My understanding is CCP has made the decision to completely get rid of off grid boosting. Which i believe there should always be an option to do both. I have read feed back on both positives and negatives of this change, but really the positives are mainly for those PVP minded people that love to harass the "Carebears of EVE", and not really the Industry players at heart. I have three accounts that I pay for, because i enjoy the game how it is and I truly believe its a player based sandbox. But is CCP listening to the players in Industry, and also addressing their concerns. I'm also now aware of the changes to the Rorq not being able to dock at an Austrahus, even though it is smaller then a freighter. I created this thread to address my concern and the perception these changes bring. Would like to hear what other Industry players think and their opinion.
You already get a better yeild. The rorqual in its industrial core mode, can mine as well as 5 hulks. The orca, mines as well as 1 hulk or covetor or whatever. This was unthinkable in previous iterations, because the orca was absolutely terrible as a miner. Now, orcas and rorquals are not only double as a jetcan but also as a very very good mining barge. |
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1087
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Posted - 2016.11.15 01:58:46 -
[11] - Quote
Its a mixed bag with this with a lot of trade offs imo. Which is a good thing. Theres vulnerabilities and a lot of gains as well. Yes it will always favor secure null sec bears no matter what or those who can capitalize and out think their opponents and that is well... Eve in a nutshell and that I am okay with.
The Citadels I have more of an issue with, mostly just because CCP wants stuff to blow up and is catering to those that want to blow stuff up. Now, my issue isnt with it blowing up its how much gets transferred from one to another player. I still think that 50% is too high a cut off and that CCP is making targets too "light" to get the necessary destruction to combat inflation. That they NEED to is a huge hell yes from me. I just think more actually needs to get destroyed through more hand changes and thereby reducing the overall percentage changing hands truly till the end result. Think % of a % of a %. This actually reduced isk enough to do what CCP really NEEDS to do entirely.
Another reason is polish and functionality really. But, I am patient there so we shall see where CCP takes these when they are finally delivered in their end state and then I shall decide if it is a good thing or bad overall.
As for the OP the mining changes mean you get another miner, or several, depending on the ship you use to boost with. This gain in another miner negates a LOT of the boost drop in certain cases, so much so that using a lower boosting amount with another miner actually works out to the same amount mining quite easily. So it gives more options than it does detractors in the mining case.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
465
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 07:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
the folks saying the changes are good.. are just trying to put out misinformation
rorq is a sitting duck.. just sit back and watch the killboards today for the 1st few victims.
im sure its about to be hot drop oclock on them all over null
the engineering complexes.. work if you're in a huge alliance as others have said.. it is not for solo indy guys.. its about "teamwork" and being in a corp that has a few hundred players sitting waiting to babysit as of way calling it "content"
today the NPE and newbies from around the globe will log in and try out eve as free...id be keeping my eye on the number of active player stats from this point on moving forward.. has their efforts worked for the better? time shall tell..
its also a possible day of serious login issues if everyone hasn't kept up to reading the information out there about verifying your email addresses on your account.
its patch day..aka the worst day to really do your normal its sit back, monitor the bug/feedback thread and figure out everything new.
nice job on the new character sheet nice job on the NPE engineering complexes? you just really killed a lot of indy guys dreams unless they're in some sort of alliance with titans and the like sitting around defending the darn things for hours on hours. fleet boost?? blah hope it doesn't cause lag im sure it will though IF many are blobbed up rorqual in the field...lol your days of boosting from a pos shield are over enjoy being the lunch/bait for what ever drops on you
so sit back boys and girls...eve online takes its greatest effort into the future.
im going to stare at a ccp fozzie picture now and throw many many many darts at it if this crap fails.
o7
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Malcorath Sacerdos
Rogue Meddlers
38
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Posted - 2016.11.15 11:55:17 -
[13] - Quote
From a wh perspective as a orca pilot with two acounts both orca capable i love this change finally i get my combat capable orca that can boost give logistic suport and mine like crazy! i no longer need to choose if i shuld take my mining barge or my orca i take the orca on both acounts load one with mining boosts to help corp members and one with shields boosts to help with survivability i ca help fight off a small gank gang and carry a wide variety of drones. the two orcas meen i can refit on the fly so i get to use some of the carrier skils i learned in null. this change is great all around!!! and once we get a rorq in the hole with us the rorc can handle the mining boosts and i can get some other ones going or perhaps a tractor and salvager ... anyways thank you ccp for the spider combat orca!! |
renwahh
Wiking Brigade The Devil's Warrior Alliance
35
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Posted - 2016.11.15 11:57:15 -
[14] - Quote
Who cares about indies. Im gonna be pvping in a Porpoise |
Katucha
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 18:19:03 -
[15] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:[quote=ANTONE1357][center][b]
CCP hasn't left you in the lurch though. They have made these boosting ships extremely tough and given you a wide selection to choose from according to your ability to defend them and your risk tolerance. You have to make a decision now, and actually play the game, and choose the booster that is right for you. So instead of whining about having to play the game now, look at the choices on offer and select the one that will benefit you the most like you do for all the other factors that go into an industrial operation. That might mean you have to provide more for your defense, but that too is part of the game, and just look at that as the cost of doing business.
For people like me who invest isk and time into forming a decent mining fleet ( 9 exhumers with one rorqual) this patch is a nerf on my yield. I can't siege a rorqual in the belt because i'am not a part of a big alliance who can defend me. The only solution for me is to put an unsieged rorqual to boost my mining fleet in the belt. That means that i put a fatassslow 3 billions cost ship on the grid and still loose 25% of yield because i can't use the core. No matter how big you are, there is always a bigger fish and now, you are forced to fight if you want to get the most from the rorqual. Avoid confrontation when you are mining is something that i think is necessary when you live in low/null sec. This patch made me real sad as now i have to spend at least 2 hours of mining per day to be able to buy enough plexs at the end of the month while i have a 6 billion isk worth fleet on grid that can get hotdropped at any time i move my eyes out of the local window. I think i'll just end my journey on this game and move on something else. I'am sad for the time i spended to build something that get nerfed like that. |
PopeUrban
El Expedicion Flames of Exile
217
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 02:27:33 -
[16] - Quote
Mark Marconi wrote:While some of the changes do make sense.
The basics are it is a kick in the guts for Industry players. Null bears fair better and worse as long as you are in a huge alliance.
Better in the bonuses worse in the lack of defenses and in the case of a rorq, a huge fat target.
POSs will get a huge work out till they are taken away.
Bonus is more on the PvP side with more for them to shoot and the possibility of huge conflicts starting from something simple like a tackled rorq.
So long story short, good for PvP players bad for Indys
How is "Hey, we buffed all your command ships and made sure more ships will be exploding" Bad for industry?
It's a good change for industry. It's a bad change for lazy people. |
Bill Lane
Strategic Insanity FUBAR.
104
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 04:27:34 -
[17] - Quote
Katucha wrote:
For people like me who invest isk and time into forming a decent mining fleet ( 9 exhumers with one rorqual) this patch is a nerf on my yield. I can't siege a rorqual in the belt because i'am not a part of a big alliance who can defend me. The only solution for me is to put an unsieged rorqual to boost my mining fleet in the belt. That means that i put a fatassslow 3 billions cost ship on the grid and still loose 25% of yield because i can't use the core. No matter how big you are, there is always a bigger fish and now, you are forced to fight if you want to get the most from the rorqual. Avoid confrontation when you are mining is something that i think is necessary when you live in low/null sec. This patch made me real sad as now i have to spend at least 2 hours of mining per day to be able to buy enough plexs at the end of the month while i have a 6 billion isk worth fleet on grid that can get hotdropped at any time i move my eyes out of the local window. I think i'll just end my journey on this game and move on something else. I'am sad for the time i spended to build something that get nerfed like that.
I'll reserve my feelings on these changes until I've had a chance to thoroughly test them and see what is actually going to happen. This paragraph though seems to not take into account the fact that the Rorqual is now a badass miner as well. So yes, you lose that 25% that you had before, but how much of that is made up for with the Rorqual mining? Is it now a 10% loss, a 5% loss, is it a 5% gain? That part really seems to have escaped you, so I would encourage you to at least try it on the test server and see what kind of yields you see compared to what you had before.
Military Gamers gaming community
FUBAR's Website
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Mark Marconi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
87
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Posted - 2016.11.16 04:38:02 -
[18] - Quote
Bill Lane wrote:
I'll reserve my feelings on these changes until I've had a chance to thoroughly test them and see what is actually going to happen. This paragraph though seems to not take into account the fact that the Rorqual is now a badass miner as well. So yes, you lose that 25% that you had before, but how much of that is made up for with the Rorqual mining? Is it now a 10% loss, a 5% loss, is it a 5% gain? That part really seems to have escaped you, so I would encourage you to at least try it on the test server and see what kind of yields you see compared to what you had before.
Yes but now the Rorq needs a new skin. One that looks like a big bulls eye |
May Arethusa
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
216
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Posted - 2016.11.16 04:52:10 -
[19] - Quote
Quote: No matter how big you are, there is always a bigger fish and now, you are forced to fight if you want to get the most from the rorqual.
If you can't defend your Rorqual, why should you expect the same results as someone who can, and will?
Won't take that risk? Won't get the reward. It's that simple. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18413
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 07:20:23 -
[20] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote:the folks saying the changes are good.. are just trying to put out misinformation
rorq is a sitting duck.. just sit back and watch the killboards today for the 1st few victims.
im sure its about to be hot drop oclock on them all over null
the engineering complexes.. work if you're in a huge alliance as others have said.. it is not for solo indy guys.. its about "teamwork" and being in a corp that has a few hundred players sitting waiting to babysit as of way calling it "content"
today the NPE and newbies from around the globe will log in and try out eve as free...id be keeping my eye on the number of active player stats from this point on moving forward.. has their efforts worked for the better? time shall tell..
its also a possible day of serious login issues if everyone hasn't kept up to reading the information out there about verifying your email addresses on your account.
its patch day..aka the worst day to really do your normal its sit back, monitor the bug/feedback thread and figure out everything new.
nice job on the new character sheet nice job on the NPE engineering complexes? you just really killed a lot of indy guys dreams unless they're in some sort of alliance with titans and the like sitting around defending the darn things for hours on hours. fleet boost?? blah hope it doesn't cause lag im sure it will though IF many are blobbed up rorqual in the field...lol your days of boosting from a pos shield are over enjoy being the lunch/bait for what ever drops on you
so sit back boys and girls...eve online takes its greatest effort into the future.
im going to stare at a ccp fozzie picture now and throw many many many darts at it if this crap fails.
o7
Cowards never win. |
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Mark Marconi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
91
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 07:47:37 -
[21] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Cowards never win. Actually CODE win quite often.
Against defenseless targets. |
Katucha
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 15:53:26 -
[22] - Quote
May Arethusa wrote:[quote] If you can't defend your Rorqual, why should you expect the same results as someone who can, and will?
Won't take that risk? Won't get the reward. It's that simple.
With the same logic, why don't they force carrier to siege while ratting to let only people that are able to defend it the posibility of making money with pve carrier? That would be more fair for rorqual pilots. |
Keaden Aemar
4 Marketeers Rura-Penthe
11
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Posted - 2016.11.16 16:58:13 -
[23] - Quote
I'm fine with risk, I just wish it wasn't so inconvenient to boost. The range for mining boosters needs to be at least doubled (have you seen some of the ore sites in wormholes?), and micro managing charges seems like an unnecessary chore (just give us scripts like every other module that isn't a gun in the game). |
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