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Phoenus
Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.03.27 10:32:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Curzon Dax Edited by: Curzon Dax on 27/03/2007 03:48:58
Um...the folks in MC posting here....
I started with Mercenary Coalition. And I quote "We're busy right now and besides, we don't babysit." *EDIT* The subject of money never came up. They always left convo when I detailed what I was after.
Yep, the MC is currently under contract for the foreseeable future . Which would be why you were turned down, before you even got to the stage of making an offer.
[ 2006.08.16 20:49:06 ] (combat) Your Electron Blaster Cannon II barely scratches Dominix [NTEMS]<HELLH>(Dominix), causing |
Tecro Nashota
Inako Industries
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Posted - 2007.03.27 11:01:00 -
[32]
Vaga, I think the only one who's talking rubbish here is you
Where did Curzon get flamed, why isn't his post constructive, is he the one that should learn how to play the game ?
You think that EvE is fantasy game where you can just create whatever you imagination can come to think of ? Last time I checked it was still a RPG. It's like mission running, it's not a occupation, just like PVP is not something you do in EvE, it's what EvE is all about. Based on RL comparison molded in a nice story, not a fantasy game with elves and orcs and magick.
Indeed many are completely deluded by the PVP and don't realize it's an RPG. The just make up their own rules as they see fit, changing definitions so they can feel comfy with what they are doing.
This is a game which still is based on Good vs Evil, and if you come to me saying that in 0.0 there is no good or evil because there is now law in 0.0, I'm just going to tell you that you are to short minded to be playing this game.
You think you can just change the definitions of an outlaw, assassin, murderer or mercenary ? A mercenary corporation in EvE-Online is like the French Foreign Legion, or wait Mordu's Legion Command ? Ever heard of those guys, yeah they're mercenaries : as in private army.
YOU are the one who has not got the slightest idea what this game is about.
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Zeboul
Minmatar The Valour
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Posted - 2007.03.27 11:35:00 -
[33]
A Mercenary Explained:
in general, mercenaries are usually present in situations of domestic or international armed conflicts because the parties to a conflict have specific military needs which entail the assistance and hiring of professional soldiers.
mercenaries are used as a means of violating human rights and jeopardizing the self-determination of peoples or the stability of legitimate governments; armed conflicts, terrorism, arms trafficking, covert operations relating to the interest of a third power acting to harm one or more parties to an armed conflict, a government's inability to ensure security within its own territory, and violence linked to extremist intolerance foster or create the market for mercenaries, defined as foreign experts acting individually or through companies whose "skilled" services are sought because of their proven experience in military matters.
with these points in mind, the use of mercenaries may be explained by the following reasons: military professionalism; experience in warfare; concealment of the real mastermind; greater safety in acting without directly having to assume the consequences; comparatively low cost, in terms both of money and of endangering the lives of one's own military personnel; knowledge of strategic planning; and two circumstances usually determine the actual use of mercenaries: (a) the existence of an organization, state or party to a conflict which, in order to carry out operations, resorts to hiring mercenaries as a way of achieving its goals; and (b) recruiting organizations and enterprises and people who, for high pay, will agree to serve as mercenaries knowing that they will be performing acts prohibited by national laws and international treaties protecting human rights, state sovereignty and the right of peoples to self-determination.
ODERINT DUM METUAT LET THEM HATE, AS LONG AS THEY FEAR |
Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Caldari Mercenary Legion
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Posted - 2007.03.27 11:44:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Curzon Dax Lets start with this:
MERCENARY ûadjective 1.working or acting merely for money or other reward; venal. 2.hired to serve in a foreign army, guerrilla organization, etc. ûnoun 3.a professional soldier hired to serve in a foreign army. 4.any hireling.
With that said, I went through the mercenaries list, forums, etc and added a total of 93 mercenary corporations to my contact list. Then I went hunting for a mercenary corp to hire for event security.
I found TWO! TWO Corporations that are actually mercenaries. They work for ISK. You pay them to be your personal army, and they do their job. Of the two, one of them was a three man operation led by someone I presume to be under the age of 14 working with two alts, and the other are great folks, but mostly not in my time zone and hard to coordinate with.
The rest of the ilk said "Only if we're killing someone." Listen dudes. You're not mercenaries. You're paid pirates. You're looking to get paid to selectively pirate people. You're looking to get paid to be a Privateer's Alliance on a smaller scale.
If you're only willing to take a contract if it involves a corporation that you need to wardec or a pilot that you need to kill, that is a very limited, selective role - like I said: Paid Pirate. Think back to the Letters of Marquee that kings used to give pirates to work for them. They were selective pirates, not mercenaries.
PLEASE for the love of God, CCP, and King Kong, stop calling yourselves mercs if you're not!
I suspect you just didn't make good enough offer. Time is ISK. You don't spend whole day on asteroid belt for 1M.
I can tell you our corp would most likely gladly do some job not involving killing if it pays off. Just don't expect to get anything for free. Ships, equipment etc. cost ISK. It just isn't worth of doing 20-50 jumps for few millions.
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Demarcus
Project Gemini
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Posted - 2007.03.27 11:56:00 -
[35]
Curzon, we are open for contracts at the moment. Contact me in game. ------------------------------------- You are all worthless, and weak.
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DarkElf
Caldari Veto.
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Posted - 2007.03.27 13:18:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Curzon Dax Nay - if you can't hire someone to do mercenary work because it doesn't involve killing someone, they aren't mercenaries (hirelings).
wrong. they are mercenaries. just picky one's about the work they do.
DE
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Trubba Maykah
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Posted - 2007.03.27 14:59:00 -
[37]
Perhaps I can assist Mr. Dax in understanding the situation.
I have hired mercenaries (some of whom are pirates, some of whom are not) to do a number of different kinds of jobs. The more fun the job is, the less money it costs. The less fun the job is, the more money it costs. Risk follows the same calculus.
Paying people to sit around instead of "play" the "game" may be (relatively) low in risk but it's also very low in recreational content.
I'm certain I can find the right people for you. However, in my experience, most clients really have no idea how much it costs to pay people to do their dirty (or boring) work.
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Vily
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.03.27 15:26:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Curzon Dax Edited by: Curzon Dax on 27/03/2007 03:48:58
Um...the folks in MC posting here....
I started with Mercenary Coalition. And I quote "We're busy right now and besides, we don't babysit." *EDIT* The subject of money never came up. They always left convo when I detailed what I was after.
I have a mercenary corporation supporting event security for the battleship championship now, but like I said - they're European and I'm not. If you can do better, and support 24/7 availability with notice, or more importantly U.S. Timezones, perhaps you should have your CEO contact me.
But like I said...I didn't go to two merc corporations. I went to NINETY THREE of them. Of those, only two were willing to talk about something other than pew-pewing for ISK.
two points.
MC HAVE babysat outpost deloyments so it's not something we have never done before.
you keep throwing out this NINETY THREE number.
there are FOURTY SEVEN mercenary corps listed on the mercenaries thread. I would hazard a guess that around a dozen of them are in-acitve. Combine that with multiple corps there being in alliances. you get maybe 25-30 possibles MAX.
so.... I CALL BULL****.
BACK IT UP. -
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Major Stuart
Maelstrom Crew The Cartel.
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Posted - 2007.03.27 16:17:00 -
[39]
My corps would do security, aslong as we get paid it dont really matter of course we would prefer to kill people but a merc does what he gets paid for, but we currently busy on another contract atm.
That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter. It is a combat drone used by carriers. |
Crinos Childflayer
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Posted - 2007.03.27 18:05:00 -
[40]
*Claps* I just want to say, this is the most sandwich-heavy merc thread I've ever seen. 3 cheers for sandwiches.
Btw, excellent job with the analogies guys. "The flesh slipped from between his fingers. The blood pooled all around him. This was the beginning." -The Beginning of The End |
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Tobias Sjodin
Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.03.27 19:15:00 -
[41]
Wow, why is it that people who can't play the game resort to discussions about semantics?
"Waaah, you're not a pirate, you're a cook!"
// ORE MONGERS // Recruiting now. |
Portios Smith
DNR
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Posted - 2007.03.27 19:25:00 -
[42]
Mercs in EVE , they went extinct long ago. Now all we have is Mission running pirates and Pirating Mission runners
I want the truth
You can't handle the truth - Ductoris |
Karash Amerius
Amarr O.E.C Legionnaire Services Ltd.
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Posted - 2007.03.27 19:31:00 -
[43]
We are mercenaries, and we do not pirate. We also specialize in event security. However, we are pretty busy right now with our own affairs. Merc Blog |
Curzon Dax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.03.27 19:52:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Zeboul A Mercenary Explained:
in general, mercenaries are usually present in situations of domestic or international armed conflicts because the parties to a conflict have specific military needs which entail the assistance and hiring of professional soldiers.
mercenaries are used as a means of violating human rights and jeopardizing the self-determination of peoples or the stability of legitimate governments; armed conflicts, terrorism, arms trafficking, covert operations relating to the interest of a third power acting to harm one or more parties to an armed conflict, a government's inability to ensure security within its own territory, and violence linked to extremist intolerance foster or create the market for mercenaries, defined as foreign experts acting individually or through companies whose "skilled" services are sought because of their proven experience in military matters.
with these points in mind, the use of mercenaries may be explained by the following reasons: military professionalism; experience in warfare; concealment of the real mastermind; greater safety in acting without directly having to assume the consequences; comparatively low cost, in terms both of money and of endangering the lives of one's own military personnel; knowledge of strategic planning; and two circumstances usually determine the actual use of mercenaries: (a) the existence of an organization, state or party to a conflict which, in order to carry out operations, resorts to hiring mercenaries as a way of achieving its goals; and (b) recruiting organizations and enterprises and people who, for high pay, will agree to serve as mercenaries knowing that they will be performing acts prohibited by national laws and international treaties protecting human rights, state sovereignty and the right of peoples to self-determination.
EXACTLY! That's a mercenary. Lets pretend that I'm a government, and I don't have the force to insure my own security. That's why I need mercs. Have you clicky-ed on my signature? Some fights will be in lowsec, and I need lowsec systems that I'm in secured to prevent people from interfering in events.
ISK rarely came up in my discussions with the "mercenary" corporations - once I detailed the security, they just said "Not interested" before even getting a price quote. Each "job" is just a fight. The contract I have worked out with my current mercenaries ranges from high-sec to low-sec with vastly different needs for both, and their pay ranging from 50 million to 500 million in highsec for two pilots supporting me, and 250 million to many billions in lowsec fights, in ADDITION to all ship losses being reimbursed.
You might scoff at at that, but understand that the duration of each of these jobs is anywhere from 5 minutes to 2 hours, tops. Stick multiple fights on the same day, or back to back, and that's some serious payment.
The problem is...my negotiations with "mercenaries" never gets to the payment. It gets to the part where I'm not looking for someone to die, and they say "not interested."
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Xori Ruscuv
The Scope
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Posted - 2007.03.27 19:55:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Crinos Childflayer *Claps* I just want to say, this is the most sandwich-heavy merc thread I've ever seen. 3 cheers for sandwiches.
Btw, excellent job with the analogies guys.
<--- The sandwitch mercenary!
Passive shield tank is the new WCS! |
Mikojo
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.03.27 21:20:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin "Waaah, you're not a pirate, you're a cook!"
Rofl.
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Viqer Fell
Minmatar Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2007.03.27 22:30:00 -
[47]
You also failed to make any contact with ourselves so please discount Trinity Nova from your list of "93" corps
Click here to visit our site
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Curzon Dax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.03.27 23:20:00 -
[48]
Viqer Fell, I sent you a mail a good three months ago. Trinity Nova was one of the first corps I tried contacting.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.03.28 01:36:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Tecro Nashota This is a game which still is based on Good vs Evil, and if you come to me saying that in 0.0 there is no good or evil because there is now law in 0.0, I'm just going to tell you that you are to short minded to be playing this game.
This has never been a 'good vs evil' game.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Gladdann
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Posted - 2007.03.28 12:00:00 -
[50]
Curzon , 1st of all 'grats on a well put subject
Now the subject of mercenaries has always fascinated me, I read & researched on the subject for years.I'm former military myself & military history has always been a bit more than a hobby- shall we say. Leaving the game side of it for the moment the word " mercenary" can be used to describe an attitude or the morals of a particular person ( sportsstar X leaves his team to go play with another team for a larger salary even though that team has no chance of winning many games )but in the strictest,and most common sense of the word it means individuals or companies serving in combat for monetary gain.They do not necessarily have to be foreign but thats usually the case.
And contrary to popular belief mercenaries do not have to be serving on the front lines.They want to live to spend that money, so risking your life is not always a smart thing to do. During the war's in the Congo & in Angola ( 60's & 70's )no pilots could be found who would work for the airlines transporting needed provisions to war torn area's.Mercenaries did that job & were also on hand for the evacuations of missionaries that were saved in the Congo.Farmers in the former Rhodesia could not get crop dusting pilots to spray their crops - enter mercenary pilots. Some merc's did take jobs to kill someone, these were usually on the lowest end of the mercenary scale ( they would probably take a job to knock over an old lady & steal her handbag they were that low ) but these " mercs " that killed on contract were known more as ' hitmen ' than mercenaries.
Great thread
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Ladyah Liandri
VMF-214 Blacksheep
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Posted - 2007.03.28 12:47:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Curzon Dax Leave it in context.
You run a deli shop. Someone comes in and asks you for a ham and cheese sandwich. You tell them you don't have ham or cheese. They ask you for roast beef. You tell them that you don't do roast beef either, only tofu.
Since you don't have the selections one would expect to find in a deli, no you shouldn't have a deli shop.
By the same token, if a corporation is only willing to work as "mercenaries" when it involves taking money to kill someone, they are assassins or pirates, not mercenaries.
Within the scope of Eve, Mercenaries would take contracts to kill folks, wardec, AS WELL as the full gamut of other services one would pay a third party for. If you don't, and won't attach a price to it, then you're not mercs. Mercs work for money, not for pew-pew. The "mercs" in Eve care about pew-pew, not money. Likely, the individuals in the mercenary corporations aren't even paid. *scoffs*
Short of going around and hiring individuals into a corporation, then paying them to do what I need them to do, I can't think of any of the so-called mercenaries who actually are.
Your analogy does not fit, sorry. Mercenaries work for money - correct.
But it's like say hiring a freelance web designer. Hiring him doesn't make him your slave that has to accept ANY work laying in the broad range of web design.
I mean would he just automagically stop being a web desinger if he refused to create a website with questionable content?
It might be true that most Mercenary corps in EVE specialized in active fighting instead of say hauler escorting or saving mining ops. That doesn't make them lesser Mercenaries though.
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Piscis
Gallente Malicious Intentions Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.28 14:39:00 -
[52]
I would add that a Merc. tends to be devoid of politics, he fights for no external goal beyond his own serving and Income.
In my thinking I would add that most mercs are guns for hire that tend to have a disctinct lack of politics or long term goals in EVE -who they work for is academic.
We started life as Mercs in MI but since we now dont do it for more than fun and dont seek direct remuneration we DONT call ourselves mercs.
Just my 50 uncut diamonds worth PISCIS
We are recruiting!!! |
Anderi Bourdieu
Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2007.03.28 14:39:00 -
[53]
They're not mercenaries, they're 'Military Contractors'.
________________________________________________ Captain Anderi Bourdieu - Hadean Drive Yards
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Tomas Ysidro
Caldari Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.03.28 21:00:00 -
[54]
Sure Mercenaries work for money, but just because you offer a job doesn't necessarily mean they HAVE to take it. We probably didn't take your job because frankly, we probably have better contracts to take.
Just because a merc corp declines your contract offer doesn't mean they're not mercs.
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Shaemell Buttleson
Darwin With Attitude RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.29 00:48:00 -
[55]
The OP is correct in that mercs will take on many types of work.
However there are plenty of organizations calling themselves mercs that are fussy in the type of work they take on.
Your signature was inappropriate, email [email protected] to find out why (don't forget to include a link to it) -Sahwoolo |
Horza Otho
Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus
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Posted - 2007.03.29 02:12:00 -
[56]
Well i dunno about any others, but we sure are open for contracts.
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Khul Drukath
Maelstrom Crew The Cartel.
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Posted - 2007.03.29 02:14:00 -
[57]
Maelstrom Crew were never asked to provide event security by you. You did ask us to fit up a faction NOS domi in order to test out on your ship which you never went through on. Took ages to resell those mods.
To be blunt - if you pay us enough and we think we are able to do the work then we'll do it.
Ley Us Fight Your Battles |
Curzon Dax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.03.29 03:07:00 -
[58]
Khul, should be on your alliance boards somewhere, but part of the provisions I have with TDEV call for alliance support from CARTEL, so I presume you'll be involved sooner or later. =p
People keep posting about mercenaries specializing, and not enough ISK being offered: you're missing the point.
If I start a conversation with a mercenary contact, and say "Are you open for contracts?" and they respond with "Who do you need killed?" Or "Who do you want wardecced and for how long?" to which I say "Neither of the above, different kind of contract." and they answer "Sorry, not interested then."
YOU AREN'T MERCENARIES! You're hit-men. You're paid thugs, pirates working for profit under someone else's tab instead of your own; which is why I said from the get-go - within the context of Eve, "Mercenaries" are what pirates become when they get smart. You can:
1. Pirate: Gatecamp and hunt down people, kill them and take their loot. 2. Mercenary: Get paid to Gatecamp and hunt down people, kill them and take their loot.
That's my point. That's not a bloody mercenary. That's why its so frustrating that all these people call themselves mercenaries when they are only hit-men.
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Ame Sonoda
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Posted - 2007.03.29 05:18:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Ame Sonoda on 29/03/2007 05:17:11 I agree completely!
I asked Seleene to name a price for MC to do my shopping for me and was refused. Proof they are not mercenaries.
Keep it up Curzon, keep fighting the pedant's fight.
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Siriyana
Astrum Contract Services Group
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Posted - 2007.03.29 10:42:00 -
[60]
My corporation is a mercenary organization. We just choose not to actively advertise in the mercenary list as of yet. We've done escort jobs, gate security, wardecs, assassinations and more.
We will do damn near anything we're paid for, so long as the price is right. ;) ----- CEO, Astrum Contract Services Group
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