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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
732
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Posted - 2016.10.12 19:23:30 -
[151] - Quote
Be aware that jump fatigue and reduction in jump range has revitalised small scale PvP. Way back it was unthinkable to use a capital in PvP without the real chance of being dropped by 100+ Archons.
Ignore the whiners and don't take eve back to the bad old days.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Olmeca Gold
Pleonexium Sustainable Whaling Inc.
10
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Posted - 2016.10.12 22:46:59 -
[152] - Quote
Elithiel en Gravonere wrote:
Not really, its about keeping the balance right between the two activities (PVP and PVE). Make it too easy to move capital fleets around the universe and we'll just end up back in the stoneage. Want to come harass us more easily, use BLOPs and wormholes so that those classes of ships, serve a purpose (T3s, Recon, Black ops, stealth bombers, etc). Otherwise, why bother with such ships when you can just throw 80 titans + standard fleets around willy nilly?
Lol you drop 10 titans vs any blops fleet that dares to drop on one of your carriers so it doesn't make sense for you to call people do wh roams and blopsing in your space.
I actually went and checked last time you lost ratting carriers and it is October 1st the last time we (Bombers Bar) went to your space. So while I'm not saying its impossible I think it takes more expertise than it needs to be taking to kill your ratting carriers without capitals, and that kind of expertise only belongs to a few groups in game. CCP should at least make mobile cyno inhibs relevant again since even you are not entitled to %100 safe ratting just because you have your supercap alts and you carry cynoes on your carriers.
But from the perspective of the blops groups you were talking about, the changes even increase your capability because they will give you more territory to be able to counterdrop your titans from their staging, so we end up defending the status quo. |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1155
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Posted - 2016.10.13 02:44:27 -
[153] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Aphatasis wrote:Plz, think about making Jump Ranges for Caps and Super-Caps the same!
I'll remember the time wenn there were half a dozen different renges and it was just annoying. Plz don't go back this path! No. Please do keep the ranges different. I remember the time when I had to open dotlan and figure out jump routes and it was fun. (It still is.) SeVenNight Deng wrote:you never see a supercap and tt blob without any Fax support right now, so for the most case, carrier and fax will still constraint in 6ly. We will like to see both super and normal carrier share the same ly, eg. 6.5ly. You might have forgotten about it, but people also use FAXes and Dreads to support/escalate on a normal sub-capital fight. Very true - Faxes, Dreads and Carriers are used to compliment subcap fleets - Which can only be bridged as far as a Titan can jump, IE; 6LY.
The usable increase in range for fleets going into combat coming in November is - 1LY - the extra 1LY afforded Faxe's Dread's & Carrier's, will only be useful when your staging or moving to a new location for any reason.
It nearly gives back suitcase carriers (faxes and dreads). Leave your current nulsec corp for greener pastures, it will now only take you a week to get your stuff out, instead of a week and a half. I suppose that is no longer relevant, with Devs designing everything to be stagnant, I mean static; The ability to move from place to place to fight someone will be completely removed once pos's are taken out of the game, so may as well get used to a static lifestyle.
It is a shame Devs can't see how much better Eve could be, if only you could get around it to find and fight targets. I don't mean just a quick raid through a WH, I mean staging forces in enemy territory and going to war - Unfortunately with the way Citadels work (or more so, don't for this), the large groups will just get larger and PL/NC can keep renting out nulsec to those they see as worthy. Eve - Working as intended
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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GROUND XERO
Rennfeuer Project.Mayhem.
7
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Posted - 2016.10.13 06:02:57 -
[154] - Quote
Of course the more active guys in here are those who are holding Supers etc. But again we don-Št need any kind of buff of the super blobb....
- it is harming sub cap fights.... - and power projection of sov will be more decreased ( unless you buff sov mechanics to give sov holder faster moving caps, supers to project their infrastructure through the sov! like more range and less fatique!)
WE DON`T NEED THE SUPER BLOBB! :_) esp. not when the are moving faster!
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Morrigan LeSante
Black Omega Security Circle-Of-Two
1548
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Posted - 2016.10.13 09:42:41 -
[155] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Malcanis wrote:Eli Stan wrote:What do you all think would be the result of swapping the changes? That is, give the supers the longer distance. That would generate some edge cases where supers could be utilized but they'd be entirely without dread and FAX support. Could make for some interesting decisions by the attackers. (Of course, could entirely ruin the game - I'm just musing here.)
Since CCP have thoughtfully reintroduced tracking Titans and anti-subcap DDs, and also made fighters total helldeath against subcaps, Supercaps are now strictly superior to standard caps. They don't need cap support. In large numbers, they barely need subcap support. Yeah... I mean, there's some nuance missing. At least now we don't have combat refitting and the guns are huge so you don't just have a Titan that can swap from anti-cap to anti-Subcap on a whim. Also Fighters aren't complete sub-cap death after the last round to tweaks, which is good. That said, in an even-numbers fight, there is very little reason to have people in non-specialized subcaps over Capitals or Supercaps now.
Malcanis is right, in sufficiently large numbers they're pretty much only stoppable by a larger super force.
A carrier is not subcap death after the changes, but a supercarrier very much is. An aeon can happily sit at 24 million EHP and still project 5800 DPS to a subcap, all of which applies better than a high angled dread.
Apex force is still very much a thing, we may not have perma tanking until downtime, but the need to do so also is not really there because supers can haze subcaps so hard without an iota of subcap support being required. The gap between a capital and a super these days isn't far away from an ibis vs a tengu. |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
376
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Posted - 2016.10.13 09:48:26 -
[156] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Skia Aumer wrote:You might have forgotten about it, but people also use FAXes and Dreads to support/escalate on a normal sub-capital fight. Very true - Faxes, Dreads and Carriers are used to compliment subcap fleets - Which can only be bridged as far as a Titan can jump, IE; 6LY. The usable increase in range for fleets going into combat coming in November is - 1LY - the extra 1LY afforded Faxe's Dread's & Carrier's, will only be useful when your staging or moving to a new location for any reason. Holy crap! Dude! Sub capital fleet can fly by gates. Surprised? |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2742
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Posted - 2016.10.13 10:14:18 -
[157] - Quote
To me, the real problem with jump fatigue is on long moving operations. It takes painfully long and there are long periods of waiting in between. Sometimes there are horrible chokepoints, but there is a more elegant solution for that. Leave the range at 5 LY. Adjust the map if you want to give people more real options.
As I look at these new ranges, I see that the Drones Region is still effectively isolated, while other areas are now slightly more accessible. Why? You need to open up that farmers' paradise. It needs some shorter access points and NPC space.
For Capitals, I'd suggest raising the red bar to 20 minutes per jump and removing the blue bar completely. Once you jump into a system, you are only getting out quickly via gate. If you are trying to third party a fight 15 LY away, it's going to take you an hour to get there without taking gates. You can still make it to B-R, but it becomes more painful to go superblob some random dudes having a small capital fight on the other side of the map. If you are a small group on a large moving operation, you can cover 15 LY/ hour, instead of 5 LY/hour.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1155
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Posted - 2016.10.13 14:10:28 -
[158] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Skia Aumer wrote:You might have forgotten about it, but people also use FAXes and Dreads to support/escalate on a normal sub-capital fight. Very true - Faxes, Dreads and Carriers are used to compliment subcap fleets - Which can only be bridged as far as a Titan can jump, IE; 6LY. The usable increase in range for fleets going into combat coming in November is - 1LY - the extra 1LY afforded Faxe's Dread's & Carrier's, will only be useful when your staging or moving to a new location for any reason. Holy crap! Dude! Sub capital fleet can fly by gates. Surprised? LOL, of course they "can" but then that gives away a lot of strategy and tactics - Why do you think groups use cynos and jump in with blops and use titan bridges in the first place. (hint; it's not because they are lazy)
"Go by gates" - So simple it makes me think, you've never been out of highsec. 10 jumps via gates, 15 minutes? 1 jump through a titan bridge, 15 seconds? Which is the best option for joining a fight?
Just because something can be done the obvious way, doesn't mean it is the most practical or strategic.
I'd even go for Titan bridging to be extended to the same range (7LY) as other capitals but keep the one LY less jump range. Getting supers to a fight should require a little more planning, where as getting subcaps there should be as fast and efficient as getting Dreads and Carriers in place. Capital ships were balanced to require subcap support - That support shouldn't be limited, it should be encouraged - To encourage fights. If capitals can't jump in until subcaps get there, many opportunities for a fight will not be met.
"They can go by gates" is a simplistic response to a complex problem.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
377
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Posted - 2016.10.13 14:48:57 -
[159] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:"Go by gates" - So simple it makes me think, you've never been out of highsec. 10 jumps via gates, 15 minutes? 1 jump through a titan bridge, 15 seconds? Which is the best option for joining a fight? Yes, I have been out of hisec. Yes, I have been sitting on a Titan for 3 hours straight.
Sgt Ocker wrote:I'd even go for Titan bridging to be extended to the same range (7LY) as other capitals but keep the one LY less jump range. Getting supers to a fight should require a little more planning, where as getting subcaps there should be as fast and efficient as getting Dreads and Carriers in place. And while sitting on a Titan for hours I was a part of a support fleet that was covering Dreads and Carriers (and supers for that matter) that were grinding sov or RFing towers. No, I dont want it back.
If you're doing stratop - get your support in first, then drop caps. Not the other way round. On the other hand, if you're doing a roam or some other subcap thingy - you should be able to escalate it. But you shouldnt be able to super-escalate at a whim. Super are strategic assets and must require more planning - at least we agree at this. |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1155
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Posted - 2016.10.13 15:26:00 -
[160] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:"Go by gates" - So simple it makes me think, you've never been out of highsec. 10 jumps via gates, 15 minutes? 1 jump through a titan bridge, 15 seconds? Which is the best option for joining a fight? Yes, I have been out of hisec. Yes, I have been sitting on a Titan for 3 hours straight. Sgt Ocker wrote:I'd even go for Titan bridging to be extended to the same range (7LY) as other capitals but keep the one LY less jump range. Getting supers to a fight should require a little more planning, where as getting subcaps there should be as fast and efficient as getting Dreads and Carriers in place. And while sitting on a Titan for hours I was a part of a support fleet that was covering Dreads and Carriers (and supers for that matter) that were grinding sov or RFing towers. No, I dont want it back. If you're doing stratop - get your support in first, then drop caps. Not the other way round. On the other hand, if you're doing a roam or some other subcap thingy - you should be able to escalate it. But you shouldnt be able to super-escalate at a whim. Super are strategic assets and must require more planning - at least we agree at this. Not everyone lives in boring sec space (nul) - Some of us live in lowsec, where being able to respond quickly and strategically counts. If someone is hitting a pos you own or a Citadel that is not in your home system, the 10 or 15 minutes it takes to gate it with subs can mean, no fight at all. Just a reinforce timer.
Yes sometimes escalating a subcap roam by dropping caps can be an option, other times you want your caps and subcaps to arrive together - 3rd partying, super tackled and many other reasons where tactics and strategy count. Even when contesting a Citadel or a simple pos bash, you often don't want subcaps gating it there - You really don't want to advertise the fact - Your on your way to a fight.
Different play styles in different locations, call for different strategies and tactics.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Caleb Seremshur
Black Scorpions Inc Circle-Of-Two
866
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Posted - 2016.10.16 06:18:08 -
[161] - Quote
Keko Khaan wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:Based on the discussions we had internally and then with the CSM at the recent summit, we're looking at increasing the base jump range of combat capitals for the Ascension expansion. Thanks CCP and CSM. This annoucement makes me happy. I might even resub more of my accounts. Imho this is the right direction making EVE playable again
Yaaaay more alts in a game struggling for new players.. |
El 1974
Green Visstick High
153
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Posted - 2016.10.18 22:32:13 -
[162] - Quote
This is a change intended to fix a problem that was created on purpose. That purpose is still there. The current system works. I don't see why it needs change. Also changes to jump range can significantly reduce jump fatigue as it enables the use of shorter routes. On a route that's longer than your current max where you can use different way-points you can expect about 10%-30% less jump fatigue. In exceptional cases the difference will be even larger. |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
384
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Posted - 2016.10.20 16:07:21 -
[163] - Quote
@CCP Larrikin If you increase jump range and get rid of choke points - do you think it should come in one package with locking capships from using gates?
Cynojammers were a thing back then. Fights for subcapital superiority were real and meaningful. Now that you dont need subcaps neither to put down a jammer, nor even to tackle supers - what is the role of subcap fleet in the meta? Just drop the caps, and who drops the bigger blob wins. |
Caleb Seremshur
Black Scorpions Inc Circle-Of-Two
867
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Posted - 2016.10.23 11:07:23 -
[164] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:@CCP Larrikin If you increase jump range and get rid of choke points - do you think it should come in one package with locking capships from using gates?
Cynojammers were a thing back then. Fights for subcapital superiority were real and meaningful. Now that you dont need subcaps neither to put down a jammer, nor even to tackle supers - what is the role of subcap fleet in the meta? Just drop the caps, and who drops the bigger blob wins.
Locking out supers might be a thing worth talking about. Letting them take gates was a bizarre decision in the first place. |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
394
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Posted - 2016.11.08 07:59:37 -
[165] - Quote
I like how discussion ceased after my proposal. Means everyone agrees and as there are no objections whatsoever. Hopefully CCP will lock the gates for capships by Christmas. |
Kaelke
Hashshashin Inc. Spectre Fleet Alliance
3
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Posted - 2016.11.12 08:01:08 -
[166] - Quote
You know what they say about assumptions, right? I for one am against locking capitals out from using gates. |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1205
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Posted - 2016.11.12 14:06:05 -
[167] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:I like how discussion ceased after my proposal. Means everyone agrees and as there are no objections whatsoever. Hopefully CCP will lock the gates for capships by Christmas. Or nobody liked your suggestion and so left the thread.
I enjoy game play that involves catching capitals "gating it" - Especially the ones who do it without scouts
Without the ability to use gates, the extra 1 or 2LY (depending on what you own) only creates new choke points, in different places.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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AzTrackGuy
Repubblica Indipendente di Genova EVIAN NATION
0
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Posted - 2016.11.14 04:56:05 -
[168] - Quote
what about the damn rorqual? is it STILL going to be limited to just 5ly moving industry at only 5ly at a time is such a pain it would be a complete travesty having this complete re-work of the rorqual & still only able to jump 5ly's
"If you put forth the effort to succeed... you will"
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Andrew Indy
Jedran Space Services
165
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Posted - 2016.11.14 07:42:17 -
[169] - Quote
AzTrackGuy wrote:what about the damn rorqual? is it STILL going to be limited to just 5ly moving industry at only 5ly at a time is such a pain it would be a complete travesty having this complete re-work of the rorqual & still only able to jump 5ly's
If the Rorq thread is anything to go by the Rorq gets its range doubled with these changes. used to be 2.5ly. So yes they are increasing it.
Base jump drive range: 5ly (+2.5) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=494896&find=unread
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Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
412
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Posted - 2016.11.14 16:49:22 -
[170] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:I like how discussion ceased after my proposal. Means everyone agrees and as there are no objections whatsoever. Hopefully CCP will lock the gates for capships by Christmas.
Yeah, your idea was so bizarre, no one ever though you were actually serious |
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NIJofleyUK
Instant Annihilation Simple Farmers
17
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Posted - 2016.11.14 22:14:07 -
[171] - Quote
Kaelke wrote:You know what they say about assumptions, right? I for one am against locking capitals out from using gates.
That's all well and good until you realise some regions cannot be traversed unless using gates or backtracking 3 other regions to go the distance of 2 gates. You're obviously not a capital pilot.
Instant Annihilation ::
> Join channel IAPUB for more information! (Recruiting)
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Mercenary Coalition
3135
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Posted - 2016.11.15 00:29:05 -
[172] - Quote
AzTrackGuy wrote:what about the damn rorqual? is it STILL going to be limited to just 5ly moving industry at only 5ly at a time is such a pain it would be a complete travesty having this complete re-work of the rorqual & still only able to jump 5ly's Check the Rorqual thread. It's up to ten. |
Ruddger
Hmmzor. Muffins of Mayhem
13
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Posted - 2016.11.15 21:27:37 -
[173] - Quote
CCP reversing one of the only good changes they've made in recent years...... not shocked at all.. |
Ruddger
Hmmzor. Muffins of Mayhem
13
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Posted - 2016.11.15 21:33:37 -
[174] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Skia Aumer wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:"Go by gates" - So simple it makes me think, you've never been out of highsec. 10 jumps via gates, 15 minutes? 1 jump through a titan bridge, 15 seconds? Which is the best option for joining a fight? Yes, I have been out of hisec. Yes, I have been sitting on a Titan for 3 hours straight. Sgt Ocker wrote:I'd even go for Titan bridging to be extended to the same range (7LY) as other capitals but keep the one LY less jump range. Getting supers to a fight should require a little more planning, where as getting subcaps there should be as fast and efficient as getting Dreads and Carriers in place. And while sitting on a Titan for hours I was a part of a support fleet that was covering Dreads and Carriers (and supers for that matter) that were grinding sov or RFing towers. No, I dont want it back. If you're doing stratop - get your support in first, then drop caps. Not the other way round. On the other hand, if you're doing a roam or some other subcap thingy - you should be able to escalate it. But you shouldnt be able to super-escalate at a whim. Super are strategic assets and must require more planning - at least we agree at this. Not everyone lives in boring sec space (nul) - Some of us live in lowsec, where being able to respond quickly and strategically counts. If someone is hitting a pos you own or a Citadel that is not in your home system, the 10 or 15 minutes it takes to gate it with subs can mean, no fight at all. Just a reinforce timer. Yes sometimes escalating a subcap roam by dropping caps can be an option, other times you want your caps and subcaps to arrive together - 3rd partying, super tackled and many other reasons where tactics and strategy count. Even when contesting a Citadel or a simple pos bash, you often don't want subcaps gating it there - You really don't want to advertise the fact - Your on your way to a fight. Different play styles in different locations, call for different strategies and tactics.
I live in null and could move my a bs fleet to low sec or 10 others regions via gates in less than 15 minutes. Why do you think you should be able to easily defend structures that are apparently regions away from your home? That should be by design....
A lot of us small corps liked the cap changes. Made small gang pvp a real thing again when you didn't have to worry about being hot dropped from half of new eden.... |
Bailian Moxtain
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
28
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Posted - 2016.11.18 05:09:52 -
[175] - Quote
80min fatigue is pretty bad gameplay. Can we please have it reduced to 60 atleast even though that too isnt much better (read the ideas of higher jump reactivation timer and remove fatigue as a whole). |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2767
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Posted - 2016.11.19 18:33:49 -
[176] - Quote
CCP, thank you again for a great change. It's been a serious quality of life improvement.
PS - please do not increase jump ranges any further or lower fatigue any more. I think you have the balance point just about perfect.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1244
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Posted - 2016.11.19 23:35:33 -
[177] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:CCP, thank you again for a great change. It's been a serious quality of life improvement.
PS - please do not increase jump ranges any further or lower fatigue any more. I think you have the balance point just about perfect. Fatigue could do with a slight reduction. The added range is not much use when all you do is wait longer before doing anything else. All it really does is make long slow trips easier due to less choke points.
Jump in, fight, dock up or tether to wait out fatigue - Adds no risk, just time.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
97
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Posted - 2016.11.23 21:23:38 -
[178] - Quote
Another CCPL buff. That's why I never sub for more than one month anymore.
Why is it always like this? Why must CCP take one badly needed change and implement its complete opposite?
Guess dev corruption will eat all good Phoebe has given us one day, sad, unsubbing. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3533
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Posted - 2017.01.19 19:04:05 -
[179] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:@CCP Larrikin If you increase jump range and get rid of choke points - do you think it should come in one package with locking capships from using gates?
Cynojammers were a thing back then. Fights for subcapital superiority were real and meaningful. Now that you dont need subcaps neither to put down a jammer, nor even to tackle supers - what is the role of subcap fleet in the meta? Just drop the caps, and who drops the bigger blob wins.
i agree with this capitals no longer really need to take gates. This greatly increases their range (particularly along region lines)
BLOPS Hauler
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Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
1291
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Posted - 2017.01.20 08:34:06 -
[180] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Skia Aumer wrote:@CCP Larrikin If you increase jump range and get rid of choke points - do you think it should come in one package with locking capships from using gates?
Cynojammers were a thing back then. Fights for subcapital superiority were real and meaningful. Now that you dont need subcaps neither to put down a jammer, nor even to tackle supers - what is the role of subcap fleet in the meta? Just drop the caps, and who drops the bigger blob wins. i agree with this capitals no longer really need to take gates. This greatly increases their range (particularly along region lines) Using gates also increases their vulnerability - ESPECIALLY along region lines.
Why would anyone suggest removing the chance for potential targets?
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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