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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
364
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Posted - 2016.10.11 17:22:49 -
[91] - Quote
Dirk MacGirk wrote:Please simplify jump fatigue. I too want fatigue increment to have a simple formula that makes sense. Make it 0.5*EXP(K*x) where x is a jump distance in LY and K is a reduction factor (K=0.1 for indy, =0.25 for BLOPs, =1 for the rest). |
Makeleth Riatu Solette
I Want ISK Corp
52
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Posted - 2016.10.11 17:25:39 -
[92] - Quote
I approve, but am also with the sizeable camp that jump fatigue needs some serious rework.
Introduce a drug that reduces the amount of jump fatigue accrued at the expense of combat capabilities.
Need a loan? Look at my thread!
Mail me if you'd like some marketing advice or advice in general
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Hakeem Skywalker
The Tarsis Shriners
0
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Posted - 2016.10.11 17:40:18 -
[93] - Quote
You know you have made a serious mistake when the general population of your game calls your feature "aids". |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
18140
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Posted - 2016.10.11 17:41:01 -
[94] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:will blops be getting a boost in range to compensate?
Compensate for what?
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Mike Azariah
The Scope Gallente Federation
3563
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Posted - 2016.10.11 17:43:27 -
[95] - Quote
Alea iacta est
I find an interesting mix of complaints (low key) and thanks (also low key).
This was asked for before to cut some of the jump range chokepoints. Does it fix that?
It was not planned (and I doubt it ever will be) to set us back to pre phoebe, so lose those dreams.
m
Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯|(pâä)/¯
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Oddsodz
The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare.
187
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Posted - 2016.10.11 17:47:38 -
[96] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming.
He should know. Please, DONT DO THIS |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
18142
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Posted - 2016.10.11 17:48:28 -
[97] - Quote
Hakeem Skywalker wrote:So, basically this is a 1 LY increase to force projection? why bother that is not going to bring anyone back to the game.
Numbers can be misleading. Increasing a Dread's jumprange from 5 to 7 LY increases the volume of space it can jump within by a factor of 2.74. On average you can expect between 2-3x as many systems to be within range. That change also eliminates (or at least widens) a lot of chokepoints.
make no mistake, this proposal is quite a significant capital mobility buff.
Given that the original reasons for the power projection nerf are still very much in place - in fact I would say even more so than ever, given that there's now no plausible counterbalance to a combined N3/PL, I hope CCP monitor the stuation very, very closely. We absolutely do not need to return to anything like the dreadful, stagnant sov null situation of 2012-2014. And if anyone thinks that it wouldn't happen again if it became possible for it to happen again, I have some Arizona beachfront property they may also be interested in.
"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."
Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
634
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Posted - 2016.10.11 17:49:01 -
[98] - Quote
What do you all think would be the result of swapping the changes? That is, give the supers the longer distance. That would generate some edge cases where supers could be utilized but they'd be entirely without dread and FAX support. Could make for some interesting decisions by the attackers. (Of course, could entirely ruin the game - I'm just musing here.)
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
18142
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Posted - 2016.10.11 17:51:36 -
[99] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming.
The amount of historical revisionism I've seen from some people on this subject is hilarious. The situation we have in 0.0 is a glorious wonderland of patchwork diversity and independent wars compared to the pre-Phoebe situation, but it seems that many people think that this new state of affairs is some God-ordained right, rather than a direct result of sharply projecting capital power projection.
"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."
Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
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Hendrink Collie
Contra Ratio DARKNESS.
105
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Posted - 2016.10.11 17:57:16 -
[100] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming. The amount of historical revisionism I've seen from some people on this subject is hilarious. The situation we have in 0.0 is a glorious wonderland of patchwork diversity and independent wars compared to the pre-Phoebe situation, but it seems that many people think that this new state of affairs is some God-ordained right, rather than a direct result of sharply projecting capital power projection.
I tend to agree with you, though as long as fatigue isn't touched, the increase in range isn't going to change things THAT much, just make for a few less choke points. That being said, if they start really toning down the fatigue and/or go even further with range, we may start seeing the diversity that does exist vanish into A vs B again. Sure, while the fights were large and glorious during the glory days of dominion and pre-phoebe, people tend to forget the long periods of nothing that happened between those set piece battles. At least now there is SOME content going on almost all the time. |
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Lan Wang
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
3554
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Posted - 2016.10.11 17:57:54 -
[101] - Quote
Makeleth Riatu Solette wrote:I approve, but am also with the sizeable camp that jump fatigue needs some serious rework.
Introduce a drug that reduces the amount of jump fatigue accrued at the expense of combat capabilities.
That favours large gangs of caps even more than the small gangs
Loyalist to Angel Cartel
Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
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The CloudyOne
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
2
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Posted - 2016.10.11 17:58:36 -
[102] - Quote
vallenaa wrote:Literally the week i sell my Hel and melt my pilots brain because the current state of jump drives is a **** joke and has been for years.
Thanks ccp but a little too late.
:drama:
Nobody cares. |
MAS0RAKSH
Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture
15
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Posted - 2016.10.11 18:01:40 -
[103] - Quote
the JFat timer is fine to prevent the problems of groups jumping from one end of the map to the other. the problem is some areas of space became inaccessible from low-sec.
maybe add some newly explored areas in the empty space between regions that are currently connected by a a single jump lane or do the hard thing of moving regions a little closer to each other. http://i.imgur.com/bzy88xB.jpg
defensive jumps... how about a mid slot propulsion upgrade that boosts jump range but disables launching of fighters/bombers/drones, turrets, missiles, and smartbombs for 60 minutes (can't be removed during the timer) -10% per level of jump drive calibration (which anyone in a cap should have) setting their defenseless state to 30 minutes total.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
18144
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Posted - 2016.10.11 18:05:37 -
[104] - Quote
Eli Stan wrote:What do you all think would be the result of swapping the changes? That is, give the supers the longer distance. That would generate some edge cases where supers could be utilized but they'd be entirely without dread and FAX support. Could make for some interesting decisions by the attackers. (Of course, could entirely ruin the game - I'm just musing here.)
Since CCP have thoughtfully reintroduced tracking Titans and anti-subcap DDs, and also made fighters total helldeath against subcaps, Supercaps are now strictly superior to standard caps. They don't need cap support. In large numbers, they barely need subcap support.
"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."
Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
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Slowdive Aideron
Licence To Kill Mercenary Coalition
6
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Posted - 2016.10.11 18:30:00 -
[105] - Quote
awesome!!! |
Tosan Ijonen
Alcoholocaust. Test Alliance Please Ignore
3
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Posted - 2016.10.11 18:35:55 -
[106] - Quote
I like the changes so far. Not saying that everything will be wonderland-perfect, but it's a step in the right direction. Maybe give non-supercaps (and Blops) another 0.5LY max jumprange on top. I'd also like to see some tweaks to fatigue though. I'd suggest giving the non-supercaps some slight reduction in fatigue generation, maybe make it so that a carrier making a 7LY-jump generates the same fatigue as a super doing a 6LY-jump. I rather like the idea of supercaps being more sluggish in their projection across the map compared to normal caps. I think they are too powerful to allow otherwise. I'd also suggest capping the maximum fatigue at 24 hours. This way fatigue keeps people from just piling in on top of ongoing fights halfway across the map, while reducing the PITA that is moving somewhere, when time is not as much as a critical factor like with fights. It also keeps the 'reward' for far-sighted planing of where to stage your caps.
And on a half-related account: I'd also suggest giving POS jump bridges a fatigue reduction.
Disclaimer: I pulled all numbers in this post directly out of my rectum. |
Curious Onlooker
LE YOLO LE SWAG LE 9GAG YOLOSWAG SWAGGER CORP YOLO
20
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Posted - 2016.10.11 18:55:25 -
[107] - Quote
Subscriber numbers are hurting. Quick, pander to PL and make it easier for them to interfere with small alliance conflicts anywhere in eve. That won't continue to drive people away.
Honestly, this change is really disappointing to see, and I say that as a player with multiple cap ship pilots. This change does very little to make my life easier in game, while providing a dramatic increase in the danger of PL interference from further and further away. Keep jump ranges where they are now, this change benefits only a few select groups, for the rest of us, it stifles gameplay |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
364
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Posted - 2016.10.11 19:05:50 -
[108] - Quote
MAS0RAKSH wrote:the problem is some areas of space became inaccessible from low-sec. I live in Stain which is un-accessible from lowsec, except for jump freighters. I dont see any problems with that. Geography is different throughout the galaxy, which make things interesting.
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Cade Windstalker
571
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Posted - 2016.10.11 19:38:52 -
[109] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Makeleth Riatu Solette wrote:I approve, but am also with the sizeable camp that jump fatigue needs some serious rework.
Introduce a drug that reduces the amount of jump fatigue accrued at the expense of combat capabilities. That favours large gangs of caps even more than the small gangs
This, as well as organizations that can afford to do things like have move-toons and combat toons or something of the sort.
Unless CCP basically kluge something together so that the character can't leave the ship and can not fight in any meaningful way then all they'll have done is create something for people to find a way to abuse. |
Justin Cody
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
353
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Posted - 2016.10.11 19:40:53 -
[110] - Quote
And so the cancer is out of remission! |
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Gugl1 Molou
Risk Breakers Snuffed Out
13
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Posted - 2016.10.11 19:41:22 -
[111] - Quote
It's probably been asked earlier, but has the repercussions of double jumping been fully appreciated? Imagine jumping a dread bomb 7 LY away, furthermore, you would like to get back from said dread bomb, but jumping back would give you ~5 hours fatigue.
/gugl |
Cade Windstalker
571
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 19:42:38 -
[112] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Eli Stan wrote:What do you all think would be the result of swapping the changes? That is, give the supers the longer distance. That would generate some edge cases where supers could be utilized but they'd be entirely without dread and FAX support. Could make for some interesting decisions by the attackers. (Of course, could entirely ruin the game - I'm just musing here.)
Since CCP have thoughtfully reintroduced tracking Titans and anti-subcap DDs, and also made fighters total helldeath against subcaps, Supercaps are now strictly superior to standard caps. They don't need cap support. In large numbers, they barely need subcap support.
Yeah...
I mean, there's some nuance missing. At least now we don't have combat refitting and the guns are huge so you don't just have a Titan that can swap from anti-cap to anti-Subcap on a whim.
Also Fighters aren't complete sub-cap death after the last round to tweaks, which is good.
That said, in an even-numbers fight, there is very little reason to have people in non-specialized subcaps over Capitals or Supercaps now. |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
365
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 19:46:19 -
[113] - Quote
Gugl1 Molou wrote:It's probably been asked earlier, but has the repercussions of double jumping been fully appreciated? Imagine jumping a dread bomb 7 LY away, furthermore, you would like to get back from said dread bomb, but jumping back would give you ~5 hours fatigue.
/gugl The bomb is supposed to explode, isnt it? ;-) Dont drop it that far if you cannot handle a return trip, what's the problem? |
Olmeca Gold
Pleonexium Sustainable Whaling Inc.
8
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Posted - 2016.10.11 19:47:21 -
[114] - Quote
While capital pilots rejoice with these news there are several downsides of this change regarding hotdrop/non-consensual PvP aspect of this game which I think will definitely get overlooked.
1) Alliances with too many capitals/capital alts will be able to secure/cover more space to make it %100 safe for nullsec ratting. For example, right now if you drop on a ratting ship in Delve you will get 15+ faxes, carriers, supers and titans on you, which are alt characters that these people have on stand by. Well at least we were able to target systems outside their range. Now there will not be such a system. Mind you there is no counter to this at all. If you drop your own supers the other side will just escalate. Then you need a super force that can beat the other side. Not only this is classic N+1, but it does not make sense asking the whaler to move a competent capital force just to kill a ratter ship every single time, even if the whaler had such a force, which she doesn't, because these forces are privy to big sov holding nullsec entities to begin with.
I don't think these alliances are entitled to %100 safe ratting because they have a sheer capital force. If you want to have increased capital jump range, to balance this I would at least make Mobile Cynosural Inhibitors relevant again, giving it let's say a 20 seconds anchor timer, relevant tank to survive a little bit (lets say 10 seconds - around 50k ehp) vs carrier fighters and very importantly the ability to cancel ongoing cynoes.
2) Jumprange was one most important exclusive ability of BLOPS ships. Not the fatigue reduction, because you can always wait after a hotdrop. BLOPS ships are now relatively obsolete. Whalers will prefer dropping carriers on people's carriers or rattlesnakes. Why is this bad? Because it takes entry level to an advanced whaling group into carrier level skills, and BLOPS were meant to be the ships which drop behind enemy lines, snatch a target quickly, and get safe. Not carriers.
-------
[Bitter whaler rant mode on] But these will be overlooked, because these alliances are organized to make their voice most heard and have the most influence on Eve policy and capital pilots outnumber BLOPS pilots. Our posts will get downvoted to hell and ignored as always because we (whalers) are a minority vs nullsec entities, and we are worse in metagaming (upvoting stuff, going for CSM, posting on reddit, making memes) since we prefer playing the game. [/Bitter whaler rant mode off] |
Gugl1 Molou
Risk Breakers Snuffed Out
13
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Posted - 2016.10.11 19:50:49 -
[115] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Gugl1 Molou wrote:It's probably been asked earlier, but has the repercussions of double jumping been fully appreciated? Imagine jumping a dread bomb 7 LY away, furthermore, you would like to get back from said dread bomb, but jumping back would give you ~5 hours fatigue.
/gugl The bomb is supposed to explode, isnt it? ;-) Dont drop it that far if you cannot handle a return trip, what's the problem?
Of course it'll be better to take the fatigue over dying, but I was hoping you'd see my point as taking the cyno back home would screw you over for 5 hours. |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
365
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 19:53:35 -
[116] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Since CCP have thoughtfully reintroduced tracking Titans and anti-subcap DDs, and also made fighters total helldeath against subcaps, Supercaps are now strictly superior to standard caps. They don't need cap support. In large numbers, they barely need subcap support. BTW, compared to the Age Before Fatigue, even dictors and HICs are not really needed anymore. That's why I'm against the increase of range for supers. For caps though, it looks fine. |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
365
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Posted - 2016.10.11 19:59:17 -
[117] - Quote
Gugl1 Molou wrote:Of course it'll be better to take the fatigue over dying, but I was hoping you'd see my point as taking the cyno back home would screw you over for 5 hours. And I was hoping you will read my message as "you are not obliged to jump to the maximum possible distance".
DISCLAIMER: Joke incoming! You scored a kill today? Great, have a rest, let those supers rat in peace ;-) |
Joe Barbarian
I'm fine and You aren't Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.10.11 20:32:58 -
[118] - Quote
Olmeca Gold wrote:While capital pilots rejoice with these news there are several downsides of this change regarding hotdrop/non-consensual PvP aspect of this game which I think will definitely get overlooked.
1) Alliances with too many capitals/capital alts will be able to secure/cover more space to make it %100 safe for nullsec ratting. For example, right now if you drop on a ratting ship in Delve you will get 15+ faxes, carriers, supers and titans on you, which are alt characters that these people have on stand by. Well at least we were able to target systems outside their range. Now there will not be such a system. Mind you there is no counter to this at all. If you drop your own supers the other side will just escalate. Then you need a super force that can beat the other side. Not only this is classic N+1, but it does not make sense asking the whaler to move a competent capital force just to kill a ratter ship every single time, even if the whaler had such a force, which she doesn't, because these forces are privy to big sov holding nullsec entities to begin with.
I don't think these alliances are entitled to %100 safe ratting because they have a sheer capital force. If you want to have increased capital jump range, to balance this I would at least make Mobile Cynosural Inhibitors relevant again, giving it let's say a 20 seconds anchor timer, relevant tank to survive a little bit (lets say 10 seconds - around 50k ehp) vs carrier fighters and very importantly the ability to cancel ongoing cynoes.
2) Jumprange was one most important exclusive ability of BLOPS ships. Not the fatigue reduction, because you can always wait after a hotdrop. BLOPS ships are now relatively obsolete. Whalers will prefer dropping carriers on people's carriers or rattlesnakes. Why is this bad? Because it takes entry level to an advanced whaling group into carrier level skills, and BLOPS were meant to be the ships which drop behind enemy lines, snatch a target quickly, and get safe. Not carriers.
-------
[Bitter whaler rant mode on] But these will be overlooked, because these alliances are organized to make their voice most heard and have the most influence on Eve policy and capital pilots outnumber BLOPS pilots. Our posts will get downvoted to hell and ignored as always because we (whalers) are a minority vs nullsec entities, and we are worse in metagaming (upvoting stuff, going for CSM, posting on reddit, making memes) since we prefer playing the game. [/Bitter whaler rant mode off]
Every ratting carrier is a bait carrier. Stop biting we'll stop dropping.
I'll +1 this change and wait for the next bout of jump changes that are sure to come. |
AllMappedOut
Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
5
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Posted - 2016.10.11 20:33:53 -
[119] - Quote
Such a lazy change.
Instead of addressing the real issue (choke points, eg: Aridia), they have gone back on their reduction in Force Projection and given NCPL a huge boost to being a nomad alliance.
Why is travelling across the map such an issue? I get that moving capitals is such a risky piece of behaviour because of choke points; there are so few places where you can move your cap to that it makes catching your super very easy.
However, that's the issue - a move op for an alliance does not get dropped upon, so why buff ranges? The best solution would be to reroute some systems so that their range in LY is more in line with the change you wish to see, but that would be :effort:.
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Langbaobao
Tr0pa de elite. Northern Coalition.
96
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Posted - 2016.10.11 21:06:34 -
[120] - Quote
A long awaited and clamored for change. Was hoping that the jump range would be increased to 7.5 ly for both supers and normal caps, which would have been IMO a good middle road between the old 10 ly and the current 5ly range. But I guess we'll live for now with 7 and 6 ly respectively, hoping that a new iteration will bump this to 7.5 for both classes once CCP convinces itself that the additional range is not an issue. |
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