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Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1081
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Posted - 2011.12.24 02:42:00 -
[91] - Quote
Podcorn wrote:But that's why I view goons as botters, because even if one isn't, harboring them is just as bad. Do you have *any* evidence at all that we are "harboring botters"? Don't bother answering that because I know you don't.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Cipher Jones
189
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Posted - 2011.12.24 02:56:00 -
[92] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:I tend to save clever articulations to those who can use them. Along with coherent grammar?
If a sentence is incoherent to you because of one misplaced preposition then your reading comprehension is rather low. Not being able to keep up with someone you consider to be a troll would be a fate worse than death to most of us. I applaud your bravery, and fallacious use of logic.
This thread has been locked due to Lady Harlot wtfbbqpwning absolutely all posters with torrents of pure genius.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1081
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Posted - 2011.12.24 03:35:00 -
[93] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:This thread has been locked due to Lady Harlot wtfbbqpwning absolutely all posters with torrents of pure genius. Wouldn't be the first time. Won't be the last.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Podcorn
Republic Military School
0
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Posted - 2011.12.24 03:43:00 -
[94] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote: we are "harboring botters"
No one needs direct evidence, it's the goon's policy to not report bots, to look the other way. You hide goon bots among your other carebears then you say "It's CCP's job to try and find them"
That is harboring bots.
I understand that goons want to destroy the game, (do they not?) And yes, that's a good way to do that. Congradulations . But what I don't understand is why the CCP employees that are in the goons (... are they not?...) Don't say anything about this. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
96
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Posted - 2011.12.24 04:58:00 -
[95] - Quote
Podcorn wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote: we are "harboring botters"
No one needs direct evidence, it's the goon's policy to not report bots, to look the other way. You hide goon bots among your other carebears then you say "It's CCP's job to try and find them" That is harboring bots. I understand that goons want to destroy the game, (do they not?) And yes, that's a good way to do that. Congradulations . But what I don't understand is why the CCP employees that are in the goons (... are they not?...) Don't say anything about this.
I don't believe that people in Goonswarm seriously go all "Hey guys, I'll be back later. If you see my Tengu flying around, just ignore it." That is just asking for trouble. My guess is that most people can't even identify a bot in Goonswarm, even though they live around those bots every day. That is only exacerbated by the really large number of members.
Mr Kidd wrote:"Don't report bots" policies only do one thing, encourage botting. The reasons given for such policies as to prevent people from rage-reporting innocent people just doesn't hold water. Firstly, how is the alliance ever going to know who reported who unless CCP is sending that information back to the alliance. Secondly, a "Don't falsely report people as botters" policy doesn't directly encourage botting and is still just as enforceable as the policies as stated.
The reason this becomes an issue is because the reporter/whistleblower/****** goes and does something stupid, like saying "You were just reported for botting, congratulations" in local, or goes into corp chat (or other favorite chat channel) and starts bragging.
The problem here is that the reporter always has plausible deniability. "I really thought he was a bot!" is a really end-all argument, which can only be overriden by overwhelming evidence that the reporter is actually just abusing bot-reporting. With a massive alliance full of like Goonswarm, that becomes unmanageable.
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
96
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Posted - 2011.12.24 04:58:00 -
[96] - Quote
Lady Harlot wrote:It's CCP's rule and it's their job to enforce it. This is not a difficult concept.
Suppose you are shopping at a department store at your favorite mall with some friends. The mall has been having a shoplifting problem recently, and has big posters everywhere saying "Shoplifting harms all of us -- please inform a security officer if you see anything suspicious." You then notice that one of your friends just surreptitiously slipped an item into his pocket. The officers did not notice.
Do you just keep quiet to "avoid drama"? It is indeed the officers' jobs to catch this shoplifting, but would you allow it to happen? |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1082
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Posted - 2011.12.24 05:50:00 -
[97] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Lady Harlot wrote:It's CCP's rule and it's their job to enforce it. This is not a difficult concept. Suppose you are shopping at a department store at your favorite mall with some friends. The mall has been having a shoplifting problem recently, and has big posters everywhere saying "Shoplifting harms all of us -- please inform a security officer if you see anything suspicious." You then notice that one of your friends just surreptitiously slipped an item into his pocket. The officers did not notice. Do you just keep quiet to "avoid drama"? It is indeed the officers' jobs to catch this shoplifting, but would you allow it to happen? I like shoplifters. Everybody paying for things makes for long lines and I hate waiting in line.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1082
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Posted - 2011.12.24 05:51:00 -
[98] - Quote
Podcorn wrote:That is harboring bots. It's seriously not but I doubt you have the capacity to understand why. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Theodoric Darkwind
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
90
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Posted - 2011.12.24 06:10:00 -
[99] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:If PL does this, they may have regained the respect I lost for them when they hotdropped my Slicer with an Aeon and a Nyx. How in the great blue **** did your slicer get tackled by 2 supers?
Probably tackled by a Cyno Arazu or Rapier. |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
55
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Posted - 2011.12.24 06:29:00 -
[100] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:I had an interesting discussion with a friend of mine yesterday about the prevalence of botting and why it is not combated more actively. I am now aware that some alliances have "don't report bots" policies for a multitude of reasons, including avoiding drama (due to trigger-happy white knight types who report everything in sight, or due to actual abuse), padding alliance wallet, and "because it's not our fault CCP can't enforce its EULA".
This has left me rather disappointed, but I'm curious: how widespread is this practice? With all the bot hate everywhere, I would think there exist alliances with "zero tolerance" bot policies -- towards their own members, allies, and enemies. Do they exist or am I just living in cuckoo-land?
(No I am not looking for recruitment; I am simply asking a question)
Doing the right thing trumps BS "Do not report" policies. Botting hurts everyone with worse prices and reducing the human factor in the sandbox.
Reporting everything in sight has nothing to do with the alliance. CCP has stated that abuse of the report bot feature will be dealt with which I suspect is ban time.
Don't be afraid of reporting bots in your alliance. They have an unfair advantage over you and that is BS to start with.
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
96
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Posted - 2011.12.24 06:38:00 -
[101] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote: I like shoplifters. Everybody paying for things makes for long lines and I hate waiting in line.
Eve Forums -- making me lose faith in the human race since 2009. |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
67
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Posted - 2011.12.24 08:51:00 -
[102] - Quote
in -A- it is allowd to kill blue bots. policy is that you have to ask in local in russian and in english if he is a bot. need to give it some time and if he continues without reply, screenshot that he is still ratting after you have asked in local (timestamp needed). most bots auto logoff when getting in armour, screenshot that too for 100% solid case. this rule applies for anyone in -A- alliance or any blue bot that is botting outside their rented space CCP FIX BLACK OPS FFS |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1082
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Posted - 2011.12.24 08:53:00 -
[103] - Quote
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:in -A- it is allowd to kill blue bots. policy is that you have to ask in local in russian and in english if he is a bot. need to give it some time and if he continues without reply, screenshot that he is still ratting after you have asked in local (timestamp needed). lol
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Prince Kobol
112
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Posted - 2011.12.24 10:47:00 -
[104] - Quote
System in Fountain - Player Jumps in the last 24 hours - 21, Total NPC kills - 1479 - No Stations or No Outpost - System Rating 0.03
System in Fountain - Player Jumps in the last 24 hours - 19, Total NPC Kills - 1389 - No Stations or Outposts - System Rating -0.22
System in Delve - Player Jumps in the last 24 hours - 34, Total NPC Kills - 3257 - No Stations or Outposts - System Rating -0.90
System in Deklein - Player Jumps in the last 24 hours 19, Total NPC kills - 2049 - No Stations or Outposts - System Rating -0.28
Not saying that anybody is botting in these systems, however if you were CCP wouldn't you spend a couple of minutes investigating if you were serious about botting?
Not being a coder myself I have no idea how difficult it would be for CCP to set up a real time monitoring system to show NPC's kills per system and how many active players are present in that system.
This would surely help in detecting possible instances of where botting might be occurring.
For example if it shows players who are active in system for hours at a time and the NPC kill count has been steadily raising with no breaks then perhaps it would be worth investigating.
For me if CCP is serious about botting then surely they would have a set-up like this by now after all these years. |
Disdaine
71
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Posted - 2011.12.24 11:07:00 -
[105] - Quote
Ssshh.
Don't want the pubbies looking those regions up on dotlan and jumping to conclusions. |
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2011.12.24 12:28:00 -
[106] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:For me if CCP is serious about botting then surely they would have a set-up like this by now after all these years. Their logs show nothing...
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Prince Kobol
112
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Posted - 2011.12.24 12:51:00 -
[107] - Quote
Doc Severide wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:For me if CCP is serious about botting then surely they would have a set-up like this by now after all these years. Their logs show nothing...
Unless of course you are a 2 month old player instead of a 3 yr old bitter vet who is part of a large null sec alliances |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
332
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Posted - 2011.12.24 13:10:00 -
[108] - Quote
Podcorn wrote:But that's why I view goons as botters, because even if one isn't, harboring them is just as bad. I'm going to just assume that your idea of "harboring" is so vague that you might as well replace "goons" with "every alliance in eve". |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
332
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Posted - 2011.12.24 13:19:00 -
[109] - Quote
Podcorn wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote: we are "harboring botters"
No one needs direct evidence, it's the goon's policy to not report bots, to look the other way. You hide goon bots among your other carebears then you say "It's CCP's job to try and find them" That is harboring bots. I see now that you're either bad at reading, or good at ignoring facts. It's not reporting bots we're against, it's shooting bots, because it creates more drama than it's worth.
Podcorn wrote:I understand that goons want to destroy the game, (do they not?) And yes, that's a good way to do that. Congradulations . But what I don't understand is why the CCP employees that are in the goons (... are they not?...) Don't say anything about this. We want to destroy your game, not the game. The rest is just you being tinfoil-infested. |
Prince Kobol
112
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Posted - 2011.12.24 13:51:00 -
[110] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:
We want to destroy your game, not the game. The rest is just you being tinfoil-infested.
Like I have said before, its about perception.
Since you are part of one the Corps where people have the perception, rightly or wrongly and regardless what you or your corp mates say, is heavily involved in RMT and booting that CCP should be a lot more pro-active and open about botting and RMT in order to change the perception that exists.
When it comes to scamming, wanting to destroy other people's game etc etc that is all well and good as that is the spirit of Eve, but when it comes to Botting and RMT, two things which actually hurt the game for all involve, two things which are synonymous with people being forced to work for as little as $145 per month, groups using stolen bank and credit card information, hacking accounts etc, do you really want to be associated with that?
Putting to one side the Internet Persona that you the goons have created about yourselves, do you really want to be know as a group of people who endorse things such as prisoners in Chinese labour camps being forced to engage in gold farming for the benefit of prison authorities? |
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Generals4
Caldari State
571
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Posted - 2011.12.24 13:54:00 -
[111] - Quote
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:in -A- it is allowd to kill blue bots. policy is that you have to ask in local in russian and in english if he is a bot. need to give it some time and if he continues without reply, screenshot that he is still ratting after you have asked in local (timestamp needed). most bots auto logoff when getting in armour, screenshot that too for 100% solid case. this rule applies for anyone in -A- alliance or any blue bot that is botting outside their rented space
What if he replies "Yes, i'm a bot" ? -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
25
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Posted - 2011.12.24 13:56:00 -
[112] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote: So why would you have an alliance member who reports all your ratters in the first place? Sounds like a mole to me.
Two words: fair play
Back the days when I learned to play old style games like Chess, I learned to respect the rules of this games. And I learned, that breacking this rules is bad. I started to RESPECT this rules. It would be no problem, to move 4 fields with the King. But it's against the rules and the result would be, that noone will play with yo anymore.
Just becouse something is posible does NOT mean I have to do it!
If the rules say "do not do this" I do respect this rules even if I'm able to do it!
And I expect this behavior from other people who play games too!
That's why I prefare one person who report rule breaking actions over 1000 who break the rules.
CCP just fails terrible at getting right of all the rule breakers! Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship! |
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