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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Kithran
130
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Posted - 2016.09.20 18:34:14 -
[91] - Quote
One thing that appears to have been missed so far is the impact this will have on small group logistics (as opposed to mining operations).
At present a small group can have a base and a way of moving bulk cargo to that base for approx 4 billion - 1.5 for the astrahus, 2.5 for a rorqual. Cargo rigged a rorqual is a poor man's jump frieghter - smaller capacity and unable to enter high sec but still has the ability to carry things like packaged battleships and a fatigue reduction that allows multiple trips.
If the ability of a rorqual to dock is removed this cost more than doubles.
Yes I realise this is an edge case but its a point I haven't seen raised yet.
Note I do own a rorqual I use for logistics purposes but also have a jump freighter so this change will have a minimal if any impact on my activities. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6401
|
Posted - 2016.09.20 18:36:55 -
[92] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit. Although we can't leave this bug in place long-term (it's not within mine or any other single individual's control), after some discussion internally we can delay the bug fix until at least November so that it doesn't hit before the Rorqual revamp. There are a number of changes in the pipeline that should help address some of the concerns here, although they're not at a stage where I'm able to provide exact release dates. Fozzie, it is very troubling that the idea was broached, a patch scheduled, probably worked-on, and announced ... without anyone thinking "Hmm, could this be considered a bad idea?"
Curious: Did you announce this change to the CSM and get their feedback?
Also, the only time devs stumble into the industry forum seems to be is by mistake. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6401
|
Posted - 2016.09.20 18:39:05 -
[93] - Quote
Commander Spurty wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:Commander Spurty wrote:Arrendis wrote:They've repeatedly said the carriers' size needs to be addressed. There's ZERO value in what people 'say'. It's what they do, which you judge them on. Hilmar? That you? lmfao - he did say that didn't he? He's correct as well. If you don't believe me, "I'm sending you 4 trillion ISK". More importantly, that statement helped spark the Jita riots. |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1211
|
Posted - 2016.09.20 18:42:35 -
[94] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit.
Although we can't leave this bug in place long-term (it's not within my power to leave the docking access as it is long-term since Astrahus citadels don't have the correct docking port for a Rorqual-sized ship), after some discussion internally we can delay the bug fix until at least November so that it doesn't hit before the Rorqual revamp. There are a number of changes in the pipeline that should help address some of the concerns here, although they're not at a stage where I'm able to provide exact release dates.
One change we are working towards is the ability to place items into your personal hangar in an Upwell structure from outside of that structure (within docking range). I'm not going to lie and tell you that we know exactly when that feature will be done, but it is on our roadmap.
In the meantime TL:DR is that we're delaying this fix for now, at least until November.
This is the right move, Fozzie. Thank you for listening to your customer base on this.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
691
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Posted - 2016.09.20 18:47:42 -
[95] - Quote
Arrendis wrote: Emphasis added in my original statement.
The ORCAGÇöthe Large hull in questionGÇöis not a capital ship. It's not a freighter. It is an 'Industrial Command Ship' that takes the same rigs as a battleship.
I said nothing about freighters.
Oops, you're right. Sorry.
Orcas are an odd hybrid between large and capital ships.
Orcas require Capital Components and Capital Ship Components to build, and are listed under the Capitals group of Ships (in the Capital Industrial Ships group). On the other side of the coin, they use Large rigs and are built in Large SAA's. A strange hybrid between ship classes.
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
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Larodil
House Aratus Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2016.09.20 18:48:43 -
[96] - Quote
Classic CCP... Fixing issues that noone knew were an issue. Also, for those people who say that Orca's and Freighters are not capital ships, it takes ONLY capital parts to build both of them. They are Capital Ships, without jump drives... At least wait until the industrial citadel's are out and you can dock in those to build stuff. |
Kismeteer
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
886
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Posted - 2016.09.20 18:50:10 -
[97] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit.
Thank you for your consideration on this.
My only interest in this is that I have two Rorquals that are sitting in low sec, unused. It would be nice if they were in demand and useful so I could actually sell them.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2260
|
Posted - 2016.09.20 18:57:50 -
[98] - Quote
Commander Spurty wrote:Arrendis wrote:They've repeatedly said the carriers' size needs to be addressed. There's ZERO value in what people 'say'. It's what they do, which you judge them on.
So you say.... |
Jay Amazingness
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
45
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Posted - 2016.09.20 18:59:35 -
[99] - Quote
holy **** ccp listened, quick lets all start complaining about sov surely they will listen
Jay "I'm gay" Amazingness
Headshotting FCs since day one.
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Winston Nimitz
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.09.20 19:01:49 -
[100] - Quote
Jay Amazingness wrote:holy **** ccp listened, quick lets all start complaining about sov surely they will listen
Need....... MOAR..... KILLMAILS :sun: |
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Larodil
House Aratus Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2016.09.20 19:03:16 -
[101] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit.
Although we can't leave this bug in place long-term (it's not within my power to leave the docking access as it is long-term since Astrahus citadels don't have the correct docking port for a Rorqual-sized ship), after some discussion internally we can delay the bug fix until at least November so that it doesn't hit before the Rorqual revamp. There are a number of changes in the pipeline that should help address some of the concerns here, although they're not at a stage where I'm able to provide exact release dates.
One change we are working towards is the ability to place items into your personal hangar in an Upwell structure from outside of that structure (within docking range). I'm not going to lie and tell you that we know exactly when that feature will be done, but it is on our roadmap.
In the meantime TL:DR is that we're delaying this fix for now, at least until November.
Waiting until November "at the earliest" would be helpful, but not having a way to move stuff from the Rorqual to the Citadel "THAT YOU DESIGNED TO BE THE REPROCESSING CITADEL" is just dumb. Saying that it doesn't have the correct undocking port, when you obviously have an undocking port for orca's and freighters and jump freighters is just lazy. Have it undock from that same port and end the argument. |
Space Captain Austrene
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
53
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Posted - 2016.09.20 19:04:47 -
[102] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit.
Although we can't leave this bug in place long-term (it's not within my power to leave the docking access as it is long-term since Astrahus citadels don't have the correct docking port for a Rorqual-sized ship), after some discussion internally we can delay the bug fix until at least November so that it doesn't hit before the Rorqual revamp. There are a number of changes in the pipeline that should help address some of the concerns here, although they're not at a stage where I'm able to provide exact release dates.
One change we are working towards is the ability to place items into your personal hangar in an Upwell structure from outside of that structure (within docking range). I'm not going to lie and tell you that we know exactly when that feature will be done, but it is on our roadmap.
In the meantime TL:DR is that we're delaying this fix for now, at least until November. Holy ****, CCP decided to fix what the bandaid solution was holding together before removing the ******* bandaid. |
Siede Dunham
Dunham Legacy
0
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Posted - 2016.09.20 19:08:41 -
[103] - Quote
Orca, Freighters and Jump freighters aren't true Capitals to begin with see the restriction of using highsec-gates. They were always an exception to Capital rules.
Now let us look at the Rorqual... Yes thats right, not the same rules apply here.
It would have been complete logical if it was like that from the beginning. I get that ppl who threw down Astrahus now are annoyed but we are talking about Null-sec alliances. You can't tell me you aren't able to place a Fortizar in the next 2 months when you plan to use a Rorqual after the Booster changes... |
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
3013
|
Posted - 2016.09.20 19:18:27 -
[104] - Quote
Thank you, Fozzie & Co.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Mercenary Coalition
3107
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Posted - 2016.09.20 19:28:14 -
[105] - Quote
Siede Dunham wrote:Orca, Freighters and Jump freighters aren't true Capitals to begin with see the restriction of using highsec-gates. They were always an exception to Capital rules.
Now let us look at the Rorqual... Yes thats right, not the same rules apply here.
It would have been complete logical if it was like that from the beginning. I get that ppl who threw down Astrahus now are annoyed but we are talking about Null-sec alliances. You can't tell me you aren't able to place a Fortizar in the next 2 months when you plan to use a Rorqual after the Booster changes... Well, I think you can DD all of them so there's that too. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2689
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Posted - 2016.09.20 19:39:01 -
[106] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit.
Although we can't leave this bug in place long-term (it's not within my power to leave the docking access as it is long-term since Astrahus citadels don't have the correct docking port for a Rorqual-sized ship), after some discussion internally we can delay the bug fix until at least November so that it doesn't hit before the Rorqual revamp. There are a number of changes in the pipeline that should help address some of the concerns here, although they're not at a stage where I'm able to provide exact release dates.
One change we are working towards is the ability to place items into your personal hangar in an Upwell structure from outside of that structure (within docking range). I'm not going to lie and tell you that we know exactly when that feature will be done, but it is on our roadmap.
In the meantime TL:DR is that we're delaying this fix for now, at least until November.
Thanks for listening at least that much. I'm really looking forward to hearing what kind of functionality and features we get with the rest of the structure changes.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2260
|
Posted - 2016.09.20 19:41:02 -
[107] - Quote
Siede Dunham wrote:we are talking about Null-sec alliances.
Also some wormholers. I know more than one group that built a rorqual in their C3/C4 for mining boosts.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6401
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Posted - 2016.09.20 19:50:59 -
[108] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Siede Dunham wrote:we are talking about Null-sec alliances. Also some wormholers. I know more than one group that built a rorqual in their C3/C4 for mining boosts. My first Rorqual was built in a C2. I self-destructed it when we moved out.
I bought another, rather than built another, when we moved into a C5. I still have that Rorqual now that we moved out of w-space. |
Rapscallion Jones
Omnibus Solutions
92
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Posted - 2016.09.20 20:29:46 -
[109] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Orcas are Large hulls, not XLGÇöthey're battleship-sizedGÇöso it's highly unlikely they'll make them unable to dock where every other subcap can.
Please CCP, remember this when you rebalance the Orca. It is battleship sized and as such should:
1. Fit in a freighter when packaged. 2. Fit in a capital or Rorqual SMB when assembled.
This could even be the fix to no docking in an Astrahus provided the Orca's ore hold gets buffed.
Arrendis wrote:That said, this really is a silly change. It may have been a bug, but it's a bug that made sense. Industrial ships aren't as survivable as combat ships. Why not give them a break?
Agree with this 10,000Gäà, maybe even more. |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Mercenary Coalition
3107
|
Posted - 2016.09.20 20:43:29 -
[110] - Quote
Quote:>One change we are working towards is the ability to place items into your personal hangar in an Upwell structure from outside of that structure (within docking range). I would definitely love this. |
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Sullen Decimus
Polaris Rising The Bastion
25
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Posted - 2016.09.20 20:46:48 -
[111] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit.
Although we can't leave this bug in place long-term (it's not within my power to leave the docking access as it is long-term since Astrahus citadels don't have the correct docking port for a Rorqual-sized ship), after some discussion internally we can delay the bug fix until at least November so that it doesn't hit before the Rorqual revamp. There are a number of changes in the pipeline that should help address some of the concerns here, although they're not at a stage where I'm able to provide exact release dates.
One change we are working towards is the ability to place items into your personal hangar in an Upwell structure from outside of that structure (within docking range). I'm not going to lie and tell you that we know exactly when that feature will be done, but it is on our roadmap.
In the meantime TL:DR is that we're delaying this fix for now, at least until November.
"For I am a gracious god"~Xerxes
Twitter: Sullen_Decimus
Tweetfleet: @sullen_decimus
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Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
108
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Posted - 2016.09.20 20:49:13 -
[112] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Siede Dunham wrote:we are talking about Null-sec alliances. Also some wormholers. I know more than one group that built a rorqual in their C3/C4 for mining boosts.
Is that the same groups that took down & sold their towers because ... .. You Know ..... The Astrahus is the replacement for Towers.
Oh well ... another Toon logged off in a space coffin |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
423
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Posted - 2016.09.20 22:17:53 -
[113] - Quote
wow... I know a lot of people who are going to be disappointed with this. You could always keep this bug as a feature.
Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
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FearlessLittleToaster
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
131
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Posted - 2016.09.20 23:00:54 -
[114] - Quote
Fozzie, I have a solution that might make everyone happy. Instead of simply disallowing Rorquals from docking at medium citadels, let them do it but for a price. Make each dock/undock consume 1000 units of Synthetic Oil and 50 exotic dancers (male). Somebody has to go out there and spread the lube around.
Lore wise this would totally fit with the whole using the frigate port thing too. |
Penance Toralen
Compass Fox
10
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Posted - 2016.09.21 01:23:58 -
[115] - Quote
WTB Purity white ship skin for Orca and Rorqual. Given the monomania focus on miner killing, the game is already full of Captain Ahabs.
Being real, would it be a correct assumption that this mechanism of ship limit would also apply to the forth coming Industrial Arrays. (I know it early days to ask this). |
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
3015
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 01:34:44 -
[116] - Quote
I think mining sigs should come back when the rorq goes on grid.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Nymblar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
13
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Posted - 2016.09.21 02:02:44 -
[117] - Quote
So is my understanding correct that you can't allow the rorqual because the ART of a astrahus doesn't have a capital docking port? Yet you're still allowing Jump Freighters, a much larger ship to dock?
:psyduck: |
Cade Windstalker
553
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 02:32:36 -
[118] - Quote
Nymblar wrote:So is my understanding correct that you can't allow the rorqual because the ART of a astrahus doesn't have a capital docking port? Yet you're still allowing Jump Freighters, a much larger ship to dock?
:psyduck:
This is incorrect, the largest Freighter is the Providence at 2,484 meters long-axis, second place is the Charon at 2,461m long axis. The Rorqual is 2,862m long-axis, and larger than either Freighter in every other dimension as well, being about twice as wide as a Charon and 2-3 times as thick.
Also the Rorqual is a true Capital with all of the restrictions there-in while Freighters are not.
The Astrahus specifically says that Capitals can't dock at it. |
Celly S
River-Rats in space
440
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Posted - 2016.09.21 02:39:45 -
[119] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: We're fixing this bug at some point in the future which means that Rorquals will no longer be able to dock in Astrahus citadels.
This is an absolutely horrible idea, (yes, I saw that you're delaying it, but still) That will be the death of the rorq and will likely be the deciding factor in smaller alliances and/or corps deciding NOT to bother with the medium citadel at all and for costs or building incentives, no citadel at all in some cases if it can't be used as a semi-portable base of operations for industrialists... Granted I'm referring to low and null-sec space where a small corp or alliance won't be able to afford to have 14B sitting there on the line in the form of a fortizar along with the fuel, ships and other things there, that's just too much isks and too much risk for a small group, whereas a 1.4 billion investment would be easier to come up with and easier to overcome in the case of a loss...
Now, this is just my humble opinion, but that's a great way to "kill two birds with one stone", and I'm not talking about doing it in the good way.
o/ Celly S.
Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal.
Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular.
Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself.
A sandwich can be a great motivator.
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Strykr X
X-COM Navy Fidelas Constans
20
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Posted - 2016.09.21 03:39:29 -
[120] - Quote
I disapprove of this change. Others have already detailed at length the reasons why. |
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